A change from starting strength!

colman1212

Hey Guys,

I've been doing starting strength for the last 16 weeks (besides a couple of small injury breaks) aswell as playing rugby. It has gone really well and I've managed to put on about 8 kilos doing it so I've gone from 77kgs to 85kg while staying lean. I'm 5ft 10.

My lifts are currently

Bench 77.5kgs x 3 x 5
Squat 107.5kgs x 3 x 5
Deadlift 137.5kgs x 1 x 5
Press 55kgs x 3 x 5

I basically am really sick of squating three days a week and want to move onto something new that I can do 4 days a week now that the rugby season is over. I'm trying to build muscle and keep going with something similar to starting strength. And really want my bench to move up especially. Anyone have any suggestions?

P.S I've been using ram. Anyone know how I can make a cheap alternative? It's pretty expensive.

Thanks,
Colman

WHIP IT!

Westside For Skinny Bastards III - you're welcome

colman1212

WHIP IT! wrote: »

Westside For Skinny Bastards III - you're welcome

Yeah I was checking that one out but I saw some negative stuff on a few forums about it. One said 'if you want to lose all your strength gains from SS, then do WS4SB'.

Another one said
'IMO WS4SB is more of a marketing program than anything. I'm sure you can make gains on it, but I think it's a waste of time doing dumb DE stuff and lots of benching instead of what SS suggests. '

Has anyone had success using this program?! If so I'm willing to give it a shot.

Molly

A lot of people here have done 5/3/1. Some people did really well with it, others didn't do as well. I'm just finishing up my 4th cycle of it and have enjoyed it but can't really continue it while training 4 times a week for team sports with 2 matches.

jaggiebunnet

I would second 5/3/1 - was the same as yourself, couldn't face 3 days a week squatting anymore, just don't have the recovery needed for it...but as it is 4 days i don't know how that would fit in around other training.

Transform

as your strength increases there is no possible way you will have the recovery ability to squat heavy 3 days a week - impossible, except for beginners.

I recommend squatting, bench, dl etc once a week heavy, throw in some metcons, cardio days and then put in accessory moves on the days you are working on one/two particular lifts e.g. scap retraction work, light OH squats, some oly lifting, hell even some biceps curls!

J-Fit

Transform wrote: »

as your strength increases there is no possible way you will have the recovery ability to squat heavy 3 days a week - impossible, except for beginners.

I recommend squatting, bench, dl etc once a week heavy, throw in some metcons, cardio days and then put in accessory moves on the days you are working on one/two particular lifts e.g. scap retraction work, light OH squats, some oly lifting, hell even some biceps curls!

And I'd add that 5/3/1 is the perfect framework for all this type of work to take place. WS4SB is grand but it's really CNS intensive and my own experience with Westside stuff is that it probably isn't suitable for drug free lifters. 5/3/1 can also be altered to two days. Just because there are three powerlifts doesn't mean you have to train three days. On the contrary, for rugby I'd probably just stick with the Military Press and Deadlift and get your squatting work done with single leg variations. Back squatting three days per week for sports is crazy stuff altogether.

Gordon Gekko

Transform wrote: »

I recommend squatting, bench, dl etc once a week heavy, throw in some metcons, cardio days and then put in accessory moves on the days you are working on one/two particular lifts e.g. scap retraction work, light OH squats, some oly lifting, hell even some biceps curls!

Transform, stupid question but does this mean you do each lift once per week heavy, or that you only do one of squat, bench or dl heavy per week?

d'Oracle

There is an advanced novice progression for starting strength which involves front squats for 3x3 in the middle session of the week. It might keep your linear progression going a bit longer.

http://startingstrength.wikia.com/wiki/After_Starting_Strength

Describes it and also has info on lots of other programmes you could look at.


Might be worth learning how to do Jerks too. I am told they are very useful for rugby players.

colman1212

Guys,

Thanks a mil for all the replys. Looks like 5/3/1 is the one.
Any links in particular for this program?
I'm going travelling in september so probably won't be back playing rugby for a year so not too concerned about doing a specific program for it.
Just want to build strength and 5/3/1 sounds good from that point of view.


Also OT but I've been using ram. Anyone know how I can make a cheap alternative? It's pretty expensive.

Thanks,
Colman

d'Oracle

colman1212 wrote: »

Guys,

Thanks a mil for all the replys. Looks like 5/3/1 is the one.
Any links in particular for this program?
I'm going travelling in september so probably won't be back playing rugby for a year so not too concerned about doing a specific program for it.
Just want to build strength and 5/3/1 sounds good from that point of view.


Also OT but I've been using ram. Anyone know how I can make a cheap alternative? It's pretty expensive.

Thanks,
Colman

The ebook is $20.

http://www.flexcart.com/members/elitefts/default.asp?m=PD&cid=134&pid=3206

A steal.

brianthebard

J-Fit wrote: »

And I'd add that 5/3/1 is the perfect framework for all this type of work to take place. WS4SB is grand but it's really CNS intensive and my own experience with Westside stuff is that it probably isn't suitable for drug free lifters.

What westside template were you using and how much were you eating? The above's a slightly hysterical statement to make and throws a bit of mud at the coach who popularised westside for athletes, which is unwarranted imo.

J-Fit

I certainly did not mean to cause any offence with that comment so apologies for that. Delete the post if you see fit. I'm basing it off my own experience and those of others that have used it. Diet was excellent as always and I've done WS4SB and the conjugate.

brianthebard

Nah not saying it should be deleted but its a big statement to say something would only work for drugged athletes, I'm following wsfsb atm, michael cravez has used it with success as have a number of others on teamtestforum and I'm sure on this forum too, without having to resort to drugs. Kevpants used a regular westside template last year (two years ago?), again it worked very well for him, and again drug free. If one's recovery abilities are not 100% (as in my case it appears atm at least) then using a 4 day split ws programme might not be the best idea, but that would be the same for any 4 day training programme. But other than that I can't think of any reason why ws wouldn't work for a natural athlete unless diet was wrong, recovery time allowed was not enough, additional training was getting in the way, or else the template was not followed correctly. But those would be the reasons any programme might fail and has nothing to do with whether one is 'assisted' or not.

J-Fit

brianthebard wrote: »

Nah not saying it should be deleted but its a big statement to say something would only work for drugged athletes, I'm following wsfsb atm, michael cravez has used it with success as have a number of others on teamtestforum and I'm sure on this forum too, without having to resort to drugs. Kevpants used a regular westside template last year (two years ago?), again it worked very well for him, and again drug free. If one's recovery abilities are not 100% (as in my case it appears atm at least) then using a 4 day split ws programme might not be the best idea, but that would be the same for any 4 day training programme. But other than that I can't think of any reason why ws wouldn't work for a natural athlete unless diet was wrong, recovery time allowed was not enough, additional training was getting in the way, or else the template was not followed correctly. But those would be the reasons any programme might fail and has nothing to do with whether one is 'assisted' or not.

Well it's good to see people have progressed with it. I'm very admiring of Louie Simmons and what he's achieved in the strength game but his methods simply didn't work for me. As you probably guessed I'm more of a Wendlerite!

brianthebard

Are you sure you aren't confusing two different templates? wsfsb is an adaptation by joe defranco of louie simmons' ws. It is designed for young athletes looking to put on mass and gain strength. I remember kevpants saying something about recent changes in louie's methodology being aimed at 'assisted' lifters, or excluded natural lifters, but that's different to wsfsb. As for wendler, didn't he train at westside for ages before 5/3/1?

J-Fit

brianthebard wrote: »

Are you sure you aren't confusing two different templates? As for wendler, didn't he train at westside for ages before 5/3/1?

Yes and yes as far as I know!

EDIT: And sorry just to add, I'm not having a go at WS4SB in particular. I was referring to Westside in general.