Munster vs Northampton Saints, Sat 10 April. Mod warning Post #1,#137.

thomond2006

Originally posted by Toomevara.

Mod Warning

This thread is specifically for the discussion of the Munster/Northampton game. It is not an opportunity for Leinster/Munster nonsense, or reflection on how good/bad Leinster/Munster were in relation to each other. Keep it OT; that means discussing the game in question.

And finally, Johnny Sexton is NOT playing a part in this fixture to the best of my knowledge. Anyone who starts that debate is getting an automatic one week ban. Enjoy the game.

http://www.munsterrugby.ie/news/7370.php

O'Connell & Earls Included In Munster Squad
6 April 2010, 11:51 am

By The Editor

Paul O'Connell and Keith Earls have both been included in a Munster 28 strong squad for the Heineken Cup quarter final clash with Northampton Saints on Saturday.

Both players were in Thomond Park Stadium this morning when the squad trained and although neither took part the indications from management are that both will be in the match day 22 when it's announced on Friday.

Tony McGahan looking towards the game "We realise where we are against Northampton, they're a terrific scrummaging unit and we need to perform against them. We need to be at our best Saturday evening if we want to get the result."

Jean de Villiers talking about the challenge ahead "This is the crunch time of the season for us, this is the time we need to get the results. It didn't happen for us last week and we need to learn from that and there is everything to play for."

"You want to build on your peformance and it's no good having a good individual performance if the team aren't performing so we need a good team effort next Saturday."

"I'd like to go home knowing I gave it my all and I did the jersey proud, putting in a performance that's worthy of the Munster jersey. It's a great challenge and these are the situations you want to be in, playing top class rugby."

Munster Squad:
Marcus Horan, Dave Ryan, Julien Brugnaut, John Hayes, Tony Buckley, Denis Fogarty, Damien Varley, Jerry Flannery, Donncha O'Callaghan, Paul O'Connell, Mick O'Driscoll, Alan Quinlan, Niall Ronan, David Wallace, Nick Williams, Billy Holland, James Coughlan,

Tomas O'Leary, Peter Stringer, Ronan O'Gara, Paul Warwick, Jean De Villiers, Lifeimi Mafi, Tom Gleeson, Keith Earls, Ian Dowling, Doug Howlett, Scott Deasy

Denis Hurley is not included.

I would like to see:

Horan
Flannery
Buckley
DOC
POC
Quinlan
Wallace
Coughlan
Stringer
ROG
Dowling
JdV
Earls
Howlett
Warwick

Varley
Ryan
Hayes
MOD
Williams
TOL
Mafi
Deasy

budhabob

Have to agree with your team selection, but cant see it happening. doubt TOL will be dropped to the bench, or that varley will be promoted, unfortunately.

twinytwo

if we want a realistic chance of winning this, buckley has to start hayes is too old and the Northampton pack is too powerfull.

the only upside to stringer is a quicker pass and no stupid box kicking but he did go to muck when he played for ireland A

We have to prey that flans dosent get injured/binned during the game because fogarty will kill our lineout

outwest

i fancy northampton to win this one.

strong set of forwards.
3 position will decide this game.

hooker, and outhalf. tighthead prop.

rog will kick his points, but will shane. flan will hit his men in the lineout but will be on pitch for the 80 mins. tighthead is a huge problem for munster. do they start hayes or buckly. if buckley starts and plays **** then hayes comes on and get mullard in the scrums. start hayes bring on buckley at halftime.

Aidric

outwest wrote: »

flan will hit his men in the lineout but will be on bench for the 80 mins.

outwest

i made a mistake, fixed

David900

I hope Munster win this for a couple of reasons. I'd just like to see Irish teams win and to keep the prospect of an all Irish final alive I don't really like Northampton as a team either, I'm not sure what it is. I think Munster can win it though, although some of the players might not be playing to their peak, they have more pedigree if that makes sense

buck65

I think McGahan is too conservative to drop Hayes. Fair enough but Buckley must be brought in after 50 minutes to give us a ball carrying threat. To be honest I have more of an issue with Marcus Horan at the moment, he is struggling bigtime in the loose and scrum.
O Leary won't be dropped but again if the game is on the edge I would like to see Stringer given 15 minutes to whip the ball around if the game becomes an arm wrestle.
The back row is probably the most interesting of all the selection issues. Ronan really hasn't impressed this season. I would also go with Coughlan at 8 and Wallace back in position at 7. Williams from the bench could also be an option after 60 minutes.
My team would be: Warwick, Howlett, Mafi, de Villiers, Earls, O Gara, O Leary
Hoaran, Flannery, Hayes, DOC, POC, Quinlan, Wallace, Coughlan.

Varley, Buckley, Ryan, MOD, Williams, Stringer, Deasy, Dowling

Kev37

1.Brugnaut
2.Flannery
3.Buckley
4.O'Callaghan
5.O'Connell
6.Quinlan
7.Wallace
8.Williams
9.O'Leary
10.O'Gara
11.Dowling
12.De Villiers
13.Earls
14.Howlett
15.Warwick

Both Horan and Hayes need to be dropped against the Northampton scrum. Not a risk worth taking.

spoon

I would say that Earls will be on the wing replacing Dowling, with an unchanged 9 - 15 from the Leinster game otherwise. My personal choice would be to have him at 13, but i can't see this happening with Hurley out.

I really hope Buckley gets a start in this game too, he's actually looking stronger in the scrum than the Bull now, and he offers more around the park than any of the other Munster props.

2040

Kev37 wrote: »

12.De Villiers
13.Earls

This must happen.

wixfjord

Kev37 wrote: »

1.Brugnaut
2.Flannery
3.Buckley
4.O'Callaghan
5.O'Connell
6.Quinlan
7.Wallace
8.Williams
9.O'Leary
10.O'Gara
11.Dowling
12.De Villiers
13.Earls
14.Howlett
15.Warwick

Both Horan and Hayes need to be dropped against the Northampton scrum. Not a risk worth taking.

Horan played well last week imo, no way youd bring in both Buckley and Brugnaut.
However I would start Nick Williams who looked very bright last week and has been given a bit of a raw deal so far. Would be worried about Ashton and Foden's speed if I were Munster.They will also probably target ROG with Downey, but thats easily enough to repel. Just saw a few quotes from Mallinder today saying Tongahuia may not start, would be a big boost for Munster if that was true, because a front three of him, Hartley and Murray could cause serious damage imo.

danthefan

Can't see anything but a Munster win, still not sure if it'll be a tight one or a rout though.

Brian P

danthefan wrote: »

Can't see anything but a Munster win, still not sure if it'll be a tight one or a rout though.

IF... IF... IF (and it's a big if) Munster can hold their scrum and win their line outs then they will win comfortably:cool:.If not ...then it's high blood pressure time ....again.:(:D

buck65

Don't share your optimism at all. This will be tight. Wouldn't put money on Munster this weekend.

bamboozle

last weekend i expected Munster to send Leinster home with a big defeat as they needed to extract revenge on the beating they took in the autumn, it didnt happen and Munster looked toothless. I actually didnt realise Wallace was playing.
I actually worry for Munster's proud Thomand record this weekend, Leinster's win will show Northampton that Munster and beatable, anyone who has watched them this season will have seen how old and sluggish the once fearsome pack has become.
Scrum is going to be a decider, think i heard somewhere that Munster had reappointed McCarthy as scrum coach, Hayes is long past it and Buckley needs to start if only for his ability to counter ruck and ball carry, DOC needs to exert himself on the game as does Wallace, TOL is vital to have for his defence.

Much as i'd love to see Munster win i'm worried and reckon it wont be a close game, either Munster will pull a serious performance out of their hat and beat Northampton off the park or the visitors will have it wrapped up with 20 mins to go.

Munster CEO and McGahan need to be scouring the SH this summer looking for quality signings at prop and backrow if they want to remain a force in European Rugby.

JustinDee

bamboozle wrote: »

Munster CEO and McGahan need to be scouring the SH this summer looking for quality signings at prop and backrow if they want to remain a force in European Rugby.

Thats the answer to all of Munster's woes, is it? Super 14 players?

There is a pecking order here. Clubs supply Province who supply the national side.
What is the point of the Munster branch of the IRFU signing more overseas players exactly? They're not Leicester or other private clubs like in the French league.
You stick with your players, select the best talent at your disposal and do your best to win. You don't create a winning side with a wallet or to the detriment of the game nationally.

bamboozle

JustinDee wrote: »

Thats the answer to all of Munster's woes, is it? Super 14 players?

There is a pecking order here. Clubs supply Province who supply the national side.
What is the point of the Munster branch of the IRFU signing more overseas players exactly? They're not Leicester or other private clubs like in the French league.
You stick with your players, select the best talent at your disposal and do your best to win. You don't create a winning side with a wallet or to the detriment of the game nationally.

this is a professional game we're talking about, the agenda of the 3 provinces in the HC isnt to develop players for the national team its to win the HC.
you look at Munster's 2 Heiniken Cup winning teams and dont try tell me the wallet didnt have a role to play. Halstead, Tipoki and mafi were all critical to their success as had the likes of Langford and Williams in previous less succesful seasons.

I agree with you that the role between clubs and provinces needs to be galvanised however if its a simple case that fringe squad players are not good enough or there is a weakness in a certain area then signings from other sources will be looked into.

or alternatively, Munster can blood younger academy and fringe players over the next 2 seasons as hayes, quinlan, horan, wallace, POC, DOC and Flannery are all the wrong side of 30, if this happens i dont think Munster would be progressing too far in the HC.

JustinDee

bamboozle wrote: »

this is a professional game we're talking about, the agenda of the 3 provinces in the HC isnt to develop players for the national team its to win the HC.
you look at Munster's 2 Heiniken Cup winning teams and dont try tell me the wallet didnt have a role to play. Halstead, Tipoki and mafi were all critical to their success as had the likes of Langford and Williams in previous less succesful seasons

Thats why there are limits on the number of overseas/non-Irish qualified players in each provincial branch of the IRFU and this setup is the difference between the Irish provinces and the clubs in England and France.

The pecking order still exists in Irish rugby. The national team is the largest earner and what effectively supports the branches hence the pay structure.

Riskymove

JustinDee wrote: »

Thats why there are limits on the number of overseas/non-Irish qualified players in each provincial branch of the IRFU and this setup is the difference between the Irish provinces and the clubs in England and France.

The pecking order still exists in Irish rugby. The national team is the largest earner and what effectively supports the branches hence the pay structure.

well exactly....the provinces are not privately owned clubs/franchises as in other countries..they are not free to do what they like with regard to signings and wages etc

bamboozle

JustinDee wrote: »

Thats why there are limits on the number of overseas/non-Irish qualified players in each provincial branch of the IRFU and this setup is the difference between the Irish provinces and the clubs in England and France.

The pecking order still exists in Irish rugby. The national team is the largest earner and what effectively supports the branches hence the pay structure.

i never disputed the pecking order, i merely gave my opinion that Munster will need to go shopping for a TH and a back rower if they want to maintain themselves as a european force.
Bottom line is though, if Cheika or Mcgahan were given the choice between winning matches and competitions or blooding younger players they'll always go for the former

Risteard

We have plenty of backrowers in the academy IMO and other guys like TOD. Also Buckley has to be given an opportunity in real matches. Not just coming off the bench with 20 mins to go or starting the odd Magners match. He's shown signs of improvement in his recent outings so it's time for him to be given a chance.

On your last point, Cheika has been able to do both. He's been blooding youngsters that are showing promise. He's not playing them week-in week-out but he's giving them a shot. The likes of Ruddock, Ryan and Conway aren't realistically going to be given a shot in the HC but their experience is being built up in the ML. Plus when Rocky left, I'm sure Cheika would have been able to sign a top class 6 but he stuck with McLaughlin and as a result he now has an Irish cap.

It's the area where we're most lacking behind Leinster IMO. I mean, Leinster are generally going to have more talent than us anyway due to sheer numbers but they're using it a lot more effectively. Unless we learn to bring through our younger players, we will be left behind and no amount of Super14 players will change that. An example is Danny Barnes. He scored a good number of tries in the pre-season freindly, has he even been in a ML squad? Yes, foreign signings have to be used but everytime we have a small slip in quality of a position we can't just go shopping, we have to promote from within.

danthefan

bamboozle wrote: »

i never disputed the pecking order, i merely gave my opinion that Munster will need to go shopping for a TH and a back rower if they want to maintain themselves as a european force.
Bottom line is though, if Cheika or Mcgahan were given the choice between winning matches and competitions or blooding younger players they'll always go for the former

What nonsense. There is evidence right in front of your nose that Cheika trusts his young players.

castie

Is that because he isnt given the choice though I think is his point.

bamboozle

danthefan wrote: »

What nonsense. There is evidence right in front of your nose that Cheika trusts his young players.

far from nonsense, cast your mind back to late november and Leinster's attempts to sign Giteau on a short term deal to cover for sexton, even when that failed Mckinlay and madigan were not given the chance as Berne got the nod.

I'm not saying Cheika doesnt give younger players a chance, i was saying given the choice of blooding younger players or results he'll always go for results.

Podge_irl

bamboozle wrote: »

I'm not saying Cheika doesnt give younger players a chance, i was saying given the choice of blooding younger players or results he'll always go for results.

It's not an either/or situation though, that's a far too simplistic view of it.

The Giteau example isn't really fair. It was in the middle of the HEC season and neither Madigan or McKinley had much if any game time that season for Leinster. Cheika doesn't drop youngsters straight into big HEC games, but he clearly has no problem bringing them through and then trusting them a la McLaughlin or SOB.

Peter B

I would far prefer Munster to be looking at their academy then looking for southern Hemisphere players. I would go so far as saying I wish we went for a max of 3 oversea players instead of 5.

We have seen evidence in the past of getting overseas players and not using them to their full potential. i.e Playing JDV at outside center.

We are also limiting our chances at deveolping the Irish team with a large influx of foreign players.

I prefer a Munster who playes better then the sum of their individual parts than a Munster with a world class team playing poorly.

bamboozle

Podge_irl wrote: »

It's not an either/or situation though, that's a far too simplistic view of it.

The Giteau example isn't really fair. It was in the middle of the HEC season and neither Madigan or McKinley had much if any game time that season for Leinster. Cheika doesn't drop youngsters straight into big HEC games, but he clearly has no problem bringing them through and then trusting them a la McLaughlin or SOB.

whats simplistic about it? Cheika's job is to get results first and foremost and the HC is top of the agenda, younger players wont be dropped into these games if there are experienced alternatives. Once again i'm not saying cheika doesnt blood young players, we all know he does but this generally happens in the magner's games.

ps- how are Madigan or McKinlay going to get game time if the coach doesnt play them?

anonymous_joe

Anyone see that Guardian interview with O'Gara in the build up for this one? Interesting, certainly.

Podge_irl

bamboozle wrote: »

ps- how are Madigan or McKinlay going to get game time if the coach doesnt play them?

They're not, but it's not like Sexton was a massively experienced player and he was the one getting the game time.

Cheika's job is to get results first and foremost

It is, but it's not his only job. The provinces are ultimately meant to supply players to the national team - it's why there are quotas on NIQ players after all. It's part of McGahan's job to bring on the academy players and integrate them into the Munster side. He obviously has to do this without threatening results too much so it's a tricky job, but a do-able one.

Of course blooding players happens in Magners games. Then when they're ready you put them in HEC games. There are a number of Magners games before the HEC starts next season and there are a number left in this season. Munster's problems won't be solved by going on a massive spending spree down south.

For what it's worth, I think Munster will beat Northapton. I can't see them losing a home QF. I doubt they'll win the whole thing though.

Podge_irl

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Anyone see that Guardian interview with O'Gara in the build up for this one? Interesting, certainly.

He really needs to get some help with his PR. It's not his strong point.

Auvers

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Anyone see that Guardian interview with O'Gara in the build up for this one? Interesting, certainly.

no any link available?

Otacon

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2010/apr/06/ronan-gara-munster-northampton

"There is an edge to Ronan O'Gara's voice as he contemplates this weekend's Heineken Cup quarter-final against Northampton. "It's cup rugby to the death. Winner takes all, no second chances, no hard luck stories." If you want to encounter a steely mindset, talk to a Munsterman before a big match. Better teams have won European titles but none has ever had quite the same warrior mentality or sheer cussedness exuded by O'Gara, Paul O'Connell and their ilk at Thomond Park down the years.

On the face of it, the clock might just be ticking for the legends of Limerick and Cork. Last Friday night, in a brutal game, Munster were turned over by their domestic rivals, Leinster, in a Magners League collision of shuddering intensity. The margin was one point but Leinster should probably have won by more. Northampton's scrummagers, in particular, may fancy their chances, having come agonisingly close to winning at Thomond Park in the pool stages. The Saints are a team on the rise while Munster, relatively speaking, are showing a hint of wear and tear.

Before Northampton supporters get overexcited, though, they should reflect on O'Gara's quiet statement of intent. Munster do not lose at home often and to do so twice in a row at Thomond is unthinkable. Tucked away at the back of O'Gara's mind may also be the memory of the day he contributed to the greatest moment in Saints history. O'Gara has won 98 caps for Ireland and landed thousands of pressure points but the four kicks he missed in the 2000 Heineken Cup final at Twickenham still rate among the most painful of his career.

"That experience probably made a man out of me," he wrote in his autobiography two years ago. "I had a chance to be a hero and I blew it."

Suddenly another golden opportunity looms. Munster have won two European crowns in the interim, in 2006 and 2008, but O'Gara turned 33 last month and there are not endless Heineken finals to come. There is the extra motivation that comes from being written off, as he sees it, by Dublin-based journalists who have rushed to anoint Leinster's Jonathan Sexton as Ireland's next big thing. O'Gara was even moved to pen a letter of complaint to the Irish Independent following a critical column that suggested he had as much chance of stopping the French centre Mathieu Bastareaud as Kate Moss.

"At times when you listen to some of the media in Dublin, you have one out-half who has played 100 Tests and another who has played six or seven and you don't know who they're talking about," O'Gara says. "I don't have much of a relationship with them." O'Gara has always viewed life through ultra-competitive eyes and he is not about to hand Sexton the keys to No10 before the latter has paid his dues.

It is roughly around this point that you wonder if Northampton fully appreciate what awaits them. Munster are favourites and local pride has been pricked.

"If we lose twice in a row at home we're not a great side or even a very good side," O'Gara says. "That's what our goal has to be, to reverse the Leinster loss."

The fly-half, the record points-scorer in Heineken Cup and Six Nations history, is kicking sweetly. He kicked five penalties from five attempts against Leinster. Sitting on the Ireland bench behind Sexton has, if anything, concentrated his mind further. "It's an interesting position I'm in. I understand Ireland need to develop two out-halves but Test rugby is played in the present tense. The most frustrating part of the Six Nations from my point of view was that we didn't win a Triple Crown. Ireland have only won 10 in their history and I felt I could have made a better go of that [Scotland] game from the start."

Does he feel, then, that Saturday offers a timely opportunity to impress the Irish management? "I don't think I've got a point to prove, to be honest," replies O'Gara, evenly. The message is clear.

Northampton may well consider dusting down their gameplan of a decade ago. Get to O'Gara, even if indirectly, by causing trouble at the scrums or neutralising his back row, and life will be appreciably easier. " Northampton are a cracking side and they seem to have got better since the last time we played them," O'Gara says. "Will they be more dangerous this time? I hope not because, if they are, they'll win."

His parting shot, though, oozes Munster defiance. "If we keep knocking on the door, I'm convinced there's more to come from this team. That's what I believe and that's why I'm so positive about this weekend. Yes we lost last Friday but the key battles remain ahead.""

Otacon

Podge_irl wrote: »

He really needs to get some help with his PR. It's not his strong point.

What exactly did he say that you disagree with?

Hippo

Hmm. This thread could be about to head down a difficult road...

danthefan

Otacon wrote: »

What exactly did he say that you disagree with?

Comes over very badly, he is essentially criticising one of his Irish teammates. Can't imagine any other Irish player who'd speak like this. Arrogance really.

Auvers

Otacon wrote: »

What exactly did he say that you disagree with?

noooooo

I wish you didnt say that

Otacon

He says he feels he could have done better if he was on. If any player on the bench, especially an outhalf, a position where arrogance is practically a requirement, doesn't feel the same, then they don't deserve to be there.

Players should believe they are better and then push themselves to show it. That's how competition for places works.

Otacon

Auvers wrote: »

noooooo

I wish you didnt say that

Why? Are we all that immature that we can't discuss this civilly? While I agree it was crude and could have possibly been phrased better, I agree with the sentiment.

NOTE: I do NOT agree ROG would have done better. I agree with his attitude of believing he is better. That is how competition works.

castie

danthefan wrote: »

Comes over very badly, he is essentially criticising one of his Irish teammates. Can't imagine any other Irish player who'd speak like this. Arrogance really.

How exactly did he criticise? And please be precise from the quoted pieces.

danthefan

Otacon wrote: »

He says he feels he could have done better if he was on. If any player on the bench, especially an outhalf, a position where arrogance is practically a requirement, doesn't feel the same, then they don't deserve to be there.

Players should believe they are better and then push themselves to show it. That's how competition for places works.

Fair enough, I have no issue with him thinking he's the better option. However, there is no need to be coming out with this kind of thing in a prominent newspaper. As I said, no other Irish player would even think of talking like this to the media.

castie wrote: »

How exactly did he criticise? And please be precise from the quoted pieces.

Are you familiar with the phrase "read between the lines"? He hasn't measured his words well at all. He comes off as arrogant imo, not to mention stroppy.



As for moaning about the Dublin media, I'd love to know exactly who he's referring to here. The Indo or the IT wouldn't say a bad word about him. There's also a continuing refusal to acknowledge weak points of his game.

Auvers

Otacon wrote: »

Why? Are we all that immature that we can't discuss this civilly?

I dont think it can as this has be proven countless times over the last few years it always degenrates into childish schoolyard antics and name calling

oh btw does anybody know where I can watch the match in Amsterdam?

Podge_irl

Otacon wrote: »

What exactly did he say that you disagree with?

He appears to refuse to acknowledge any weakness in his game. He suggests Sexton is only there because Ireland need to develop another outhalf and then claims that he doesn't feel he has anything to prove. This from the same man who said he didn't know why he didn't start the Lions tests.

Of course he needs a level of arrogance, and it's only right that he thinks he should be starting Irish tests. But he should be concentrating on improving his game rather then this silly mouthing off.

It's possible it's just clumsy wording, but it just doesn't come across fantastically well.

Anyway, I don't really want to drag this off topic. His comments on Northampton are spot on. They came very close to winning last time out in Thomond, and Munster have not improved since that time. Then again Northampton weren't exactly stellar in their last game either. I imagine it will be quite a close game (assuming Munster don't pull out another performance like Perp away).

castie

danthefan wrote: »

Fair enough, I have no issue with him thinking he's the better option. However, there is no need to be coming out with this kind of thing in a prominent newspaper. As I said, no other Irish player would even think of talking like this to the media.



Are you familiar with the phrase "read between the lines"? He hasn't measured his words well at all. He comes off as arrogant imo, not to mention stroppy.



As for moaning about the Dublin media, I'd love to know exactly who he's referring to here. The Indo or the IT wouldn't say a bad word about him. There's also a continuing refusal to acknowledge weak points of his game.

You familar with the saying "seeing what you want to see" ?

damoz

Otacon wrote: »

Why? Are we all that immature that we can't discuss this civilly? While I agree it was crude and could have possibly been phrased better, I agree with the sentiment.

NOTE: I do NOT agree ROG would have done better. I agree with his attitude of believing he is better. That is how competition works.

FWIW and OT - I think we would have beaten Scotland with ROG starting. Convinced of it. We played into their hands, and abviously the missed kicks would have made the difference too.

OT - is this thread not bout the match this Saturday? I think Munster will win - close and hard fought, but theres one big game in them and it will be this Saturday.

Otacon

damoz wrote: »

I think Munster will win - close and hard fought, but theres one big game in them and it will be this Saturday.

Personally, I am hoping there is more than one big game in them!

I am very nervous about Saturday. Against Leinster, we were toothless. None of our backs had any pace and Leinster's defense wasn't a defense, it was a brick wall.

While I believe the introduction of Earls and the fact that this is the HCup will make us better, I am still biting my nails.

Kev37

Very classy from O'Gara there criticising a fellow team mate and stating if he was playing he would of won the game.

Really low, I've lost a lot of respect for him tbh.

toomevara

Guys PLEASE PLEASE lets not go there.....

Stev_o

I fancy Saints, they ll have no fear going to Thomond this time around and now what they will expect.

heybaby

Kev37 wrote: »

Very classy from O'Gara there criticising a fellow team mate and stating if he was playing he would of won the game.

Really low, I've lost a lot of respect for him tbh.

O gara is as prone to emotional outbursts as he is to missing 2 in every ten kicks at goal, he has been a brilliant servant for both munster and ireland but has never been at the level of say..carter. As regards munster they were asked questions in the leinster match and failed to answer, in a game which was turgid at best, with little creativity or line breaks by either side. I hope im wrong but i think munster will be beaten this weekend, they are creaking and have been for much of this season, and they still very sorely miss tipoki. Mafi's effectiveness has been blunted since tipoki's departure, and consequently munsters back play is a little one dimensional. The scrum is going to take a pasting, and as is the case with the irish scrum, hayes has got to go for the sake of both teams' development, he cannot go on forever. Tomas o leary's penchent for box kicks must be neutered, munster like ireland give away in excess of 50% of their ball, a statistic totally alien to teams in the southern hemisphere, why cant we learn from the best? If munster are to win they will have to perform at a level they have failed to do since winning their second heineken cup, i dont see them doing it.

PhatPiggins

Otacon wrote: »

Personally, I am hoping there is more than one big game in them!

I am very nervous about Saturday. Against Leinster, we were toothless. None of our backs had any pace and Leinster's defense wasn't a defense, it was a brick wall.

While I believe the introduction of Earls and the fact that this is the HCup will make us better, I am still biting my nails.

I'm not to be honest as I think they'll win at a canter. Munster dont seem to care about the ML this season so I wouldn't read much into recent performances. They'll have learned the lessons from the two pool games against Saints.

I do love a HC weekend.