Taking shop to Small Claims Court for refusing to honour gift voucher

mambo

I have a gift voucher for €30, issued 6 years ago, but with no stated expiry date, for an Irish chain of shops.

The chain refuses to honour the voucher. :mad:

I could discuss the morality of taking someone's money and then refusing to provide a service/produce in exchange, but let's leave that aside and talk about the legality of this.

http://www.consumerconnect.ie/eng/Hot_Topics/Campaigns/Gift%20Vouchers/ says
"If a shop refuses to honour a voucher that doesn't specify an expiry date, you have the option to refer the matter to the Small Claims Court."

Anyone have any experience of doing this, and what is the likelihood of a successful claim?

Who is the "respondant" in this case? Do I just enter the name of the company, or do I need the name of a specific person at the company?

dudara

Enter the name of the company. (assuming that it is of limited liability).

Tigger

mambo wrote: »

I have a gift voucher for €30, issued 6 years ago, but with no stated expiry date, for an Irish chain of shops.

The chain refuses to honour the voucher. :mad:

I could discuss the morality of taking someone's money and then refusing to provide a service/produce in exchange, but let's leave that aside and talk about the legality of this.

http://www.consumerconnect.ie/eng/Hot_Topics/Campaigns/Gift%20Vouchers/ says
"If a shop refuses to honour a voucher that doesn't specify an expiry date, you have the option to refer the matter to the Small Claims Court."

Anyone have any experience of doing this, and what is the likelihood of a successful claim?

Who is the "respondant" in this case? Do I just enter the name of the company, or do I need the name of a specific person at the company?

did you ask first or did you just present the voucher to a staff member

write to the head of the chain or an area manager and inquire don't mention the previous non-honoring discussion
you never know
easier than waiting on small claims

Miaireland

I agree about writing to head office first. I had a similar problem in a shop and was told by a member of staff that the voucher was not valid. However a manager was walking past and offered to ring head office. They were happy to accept the voucher.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

hardly worth it for €30 when theres a €15 fee for the Small Claims Court.
Talk to the shop manager.

The advice from the National Consumer Agency is "Given that not all retailers indicate that they have a period of validity, it should not be assumed that just because the voucher does not state an expiry date, the store would allow it to be redeemed at any future date". A judge would then have to consider what is reasonable and, personally, I would think that 6 years is really pushing it.

eightyfish

mambo wrote: »

issued 6 years ago

You're taking the piss, IMO.

Cabaal

eightyfish wrote: »

You're taking the piss, IMO.

Whilst I can see where your coming from the business still got their money and didn't stick an expiry date on the gift card, was rather foolish of them if they don't want to honour gift cards down the line.

Personally if they continue to not honour it I'd still go to small claims court even if it costs me 15e

mambo

eightyfish wrote: »

You're taking the piss, IMO.

Banknotes issued 6 years ago are still legal tender. So why shouldn't a voucher be? Why can a shop just decide not to honour it after a completely arbitrary date (that they don't even specify on the voucher), and just keep the cash?

mambo

Cabaal wrote: »

Whilst I can see where your coming from the business still got their money and didn't stick an expiry date on the gift card, was rather foolish of them if they don't want to honour gift cards down the line.

Personally if they continue to not honour it I'd still go to small claims court even if it costs me 15e

15e, plus possibly time off work to attend the court (if the company chooses to contest it). But worth doing for the principle of the thing?

eightyfish

mambo wrote: »

Banknotes issued 6 years ago are still legal tender.

A voucher is not a banknote. It is not legal tender. Most of them are valid for a year. Some six months. The most I've ever seen is five years, once. To find a six-year-old voucher at the bottom of a drawer and demand it is accepted is ridiculous, I think.#

I've left it too long before with vouchers, and let it go.

Tigger

Tigger wrote: »

did you ask first or did you just present the voucher to a staff member

write to the head of the chain or an area manager and inquire don't mention the previous non-honoring discussion
you never know
easier than waiting on small claims

well?

Lollipops23

While I find most places will honour vouchers that are out of date (where I worked we would simply re-issue the voucher and swap) I think 6 years is ridiculous. Fair enough,you chanced your arm, but to take them to the SCC?Are you saying that not once,in 6 years,the shop had something you wanted to buy?

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Mambo, I think you need a reality check. There is no principle involved here. Companies cannot be expected to carry current liabilities for vouchers unclaimed through year after year. There is an expectantion in law that the voucher would be used within a reasionable period. You waited 6 years! Did you at no point think to have the voucher renewed, or to actully buy something with it. It seems you just found it somewhere having long forgotten about it. Some gift! I'm sure the person who gave it to you would be delighted to know you never used it in 6 years. Anyway, I digress. Let us know how court goes, as I have yet to come across a judge who would consider 6 years a reasonable period for redemption of a voucher. Have you yet contacted the company about it?

Oryx

Isnt there a limit on the length of time a company has to hold financial records, something like 7 years? If this is the case, your voucher is very close to this cutoff, so I would see it as being 'unreasonable' to present it after so long. Im sure many companies have a checking system for validating vouchers, the files for yours were probably archived years ago!

It is your fault that the company has had your money for 6 years, not theirs. If the voucher was for a substantial amount I would see your point, but thirty quid? If it was me I would chalk it up to experience and remember to use vouchers in a reasonable time in future. Legally, you might win your SCC case, I dont know. But is it worth the effort?

Cabaal

mambo wrote: »

15e, plus possibly time off work to attend the court (if the company chooses to contest it). But worth doing for the principle of the thing?

Odds of them disputing it is unlikely, given its also time and cost for them to do so....again all over 30e they'll likely settle before hand

eightyfish

Oryx wrote: »

If it was me I would chalk it up to experience and remember to use vouchers in a reasonable time in future.

Actually, I'd say the moral of the story is don't buy people gift vouchers. They're a crap, unimaginative present.

Tigger

Cabaal wrote: »

Odds of them disputing it is unlikely, given its also time and cost for them to do so....again all over 30e they'll likely settle before hand

there is a princaple involved tho
can't settlke just because people take you to small claims

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

eightyfish wrote: »

Actually, I'd say the moral of the story is don't buy people gift vouchers. They're a crap, unimaginative present.

And obviously some people just don't appreciate them either.

ejmaztec

After 6 years, I would imagine that it's statute-barred and the small claims court would throw it out. That's the usual time-limit for debts, which is probably the category into which a gift-voucher falls.

Cabaal

Tigger wrote: »

there is a princaple involved tho
can't settlke just because people take you to small claims

This is very true, but cost and time wise for such a small amount will mean they likely will....trust me on this

billybigunz

Go for it. You are in the right.

They will settle before it goes to court so you will still be 15 quid the better. Ignore the many consumer advocates on here that are conditioned to being shafted.

ha-ya-said-what

Go back the the shop, ask again, if they say the same thing again, ask to speak to the manager & quote what you said here

"If a shop refuses to honour a voucher that doesn't specify an expiry date, you have the option to refer the matter to the Small Claims Court."

Also bring your printed proof of that & they will more than likely allow you to spend the voucher, loads of shops try that stunt thinking people aren't aware of their rights, the min you mention consumer act or small claims court most of them give in.

mambo

Lollipops23 wrote: »

Fair enough,you chanced your arm

Is asking for them to honour the voucher "chancing my arm"?

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

mambo wrote: »

Is asking for them to honour the voucher "chancing my arm"?

After 6 years it most certainly is!

ejmaztec

billybigunz wrote: »

Go for it. You are in the right.

They will settle before it goes to court so you will still be 15 quid the better. Ignore the many consumer advocates on here that are conditioned to being shafted.

Prove it please, so that we don't all get shafted.

ejmaztec

mambo wrote: »

Is asking for them to honour the voucher "chancing my arm"?

If you do a bit of crawling and ass-kissing, you might bluff your way to getting what you want, but I think that's the only option. If the company decides to go by the book, and has heard of "statute-barred", you're screwed.

maglite

eightyfish wrote: »

Actually, I'd say the moral of the story is don't buy people gift vouchers. They're a crap, unimaginative present.

Indeed.

ejmaztec wrote: »

After 6 years, I would imagine that it's statute-barred and the small claims court would throw it out.

Imagine away...


OP you entered into a contract whereby you purchased a promissory note from the shop where you can redeem goods up to and including its value. It is a contract. Statute of limitations does not apply, are people saying we seriously cant have a contract that lasts more than 7 years.

If that is the case I'm going back to my first house and demanding I get it back and give them the £500 because its been more than 7 years.

You have a contact with the card. Go to the manager, write, registered letter outlining what you have done and intend to do and seek redress through the manager before SMC. If that lucks out then go to the SMC. For €30 they will not contest, they will either have to hire a solicitor or get a manager to travel to your local court, that going to cost alot more than the €30

billybigunz

maglite wrote: »

Indeed.



Imagine away...


OP you entered into a contract whereby you purchased a promissory note from the shop where you can redeem goods up to and including its value. It is a contract. Statute of limitations does not apply, are people saying we seriously cant have a contract that lasts more than 7 years.

If that is the case I'm going back to my first house and demanding I get it back and give them the £500 because its been more than 7 years.

You have a contact with the card. Go to the manager, write, registered letter outlining what you have done and intend to do and seek redress through the manager before SMC. If that lucks out then go to the SMC. For €30 they will not contest, they will either have to hire a solicitor or get a manager to travel to your local court, that going to cost alot more than the €30

Exactly, if the registrar find you have any kind of case then you will win by default. A judgement would be nice for us to clarify the law.

Run_to_da_hills

If I was the OP I would be claiming interest on the e60.

It worth at least e80 now.

JDxtra

Seems like a complete waste of time for the OP and the shop. Its just €30!! Ask nicely one more time in the shop, then after that forget about it like you did for the last 6 years.

ejmaztec

maglite wrote: »

Imagine away...


OP you entered into a contract whereby you purchased a promissory note from the shop where you can redeem goods up to and including its value. It is a contract. Statute of limitations does not apply, are people saying we seriously cant have a contract that lasts more than 7 years.

If that is the case I'm going back to my first house and demanding I get it back and give them the £500 because its been more than 7 years.

You have a contact with the card. Go to the manager, write, registered letter outlining what you have done and intend to do and seek redress through the manager before SMC. If that lucks out then go to the SMC. For €30 they will not contest, they will either have to hire a solicitor or get a manager to travel to your local court, that going to cost alot more than the €30

I'm just throwing my general knowledge into the pot, but where in Irish law does it specify that a gift voucher is a promissory note?

maglite

At a simplist level you buy a peice of paper that has the promise of the shop keeper to trade goods for that ammount at a later date, If no end date is specified it would be an open ended contract.


I suppose it is more akin to Note Payable than promisary note but it was more the idea i was getting across. But we are going very technical and i'm rusty on the old accounting and Commerce law

ejmaztec

maglite wrote: »

At a simplist level you buy a peice of paper that has the promise of the shop keeper to trade goods for that ammount at a later date, If no end date is specified it would be an open ended contract.


I suppose it is more akin to Note Payable than promisary note but it was more the idea i was getting across. But we are going very technical and i'm rusty on the old accounting and Commerce law

I'm also rusty, but not in accounting:D

I had this idea in my head from days of yore, that a promissory note was purely for "money", and not goods.

I think I might blow off the cobwebs from my lawbooks and reminisce.:pac:

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

maglite wrote: »

OP you entered into a contract whereby you purchased a promissory note from the shop where you can redeem goods up to and including its value.

Actually, the OP did not enter into any contract. The person who bought the Gift Voucher did. In law the contract was between the vendor and the purchaser not the OP.

JimsAlterEgo

mambo wrote: »

15e, plus possibly time off work to attend the court (if the company chooses to contest it). But worth doing for the principle of the thing?

do you not get the fee back also?

maglite

Alfredo Gorgeous Wildfire wrote: »

Actually, the OP did not enter into any contract. The person who bought the Gift Voucher did. In law the contract was between the vendor and the purchaser not the OP.

Alright, OP the purchaser of the voucher entered into a contract with the shop to BLAH BLAH BLAH, this voucher was then with the prior knowledge of both parties transfer to you for the completion of the contract.

Its akin to the bank now owning the house i once lived in.... the deeds have changed hands....

ejmaztec, if you get an answer do share I would be interested.

AlwaysAmber

We had a similar situation in a company I used to run a couple of years back.

Long story made short - The voucher was 7 years old, we refused to accept it (mainly because the holder was an arrogant SOB) and got taken to the small claim courts and the claim was dismissed.
I can't remember the exact reason for dismissal, but we had argued that it was unreasonable for us to keep records of the transaction for 7 years in order to verify the voucher.

For those people saying that companies don't fight small claims court cases, you are very wrong. No person or company likes been taken to court and principle works both ways.

Red Alert

Would a shop not apply principles of good customer service, like Fergal Quinn talks about in Crowning The Customer? This means that they're likely to ensure that by not taking the voucher:

a) The customer never comes back
b) The customer tells all their friends about the experience
c) Their friends don't go there

They've essentially cost themselves business. I for one will never do business with a trader who behaves in a fashion like that, even if they're legally on the right side of the line.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

maglite wrote: »

:Alright, OP the purchaser of the voucher entered into a contract with the shop to BLAH BLAH BLAH, this voucher was then with the prior knowledge of both parties transfer to you for the completion of the contract...

You are really making the law up as you go along, aren't you? Under Irish Law the voucher contract is only between the purchaser and the vendor. It is not taken (believe it or not) as transferable. Technically, the purchaser should pursue any claim on the voucher.

Anyway, 6 years after the fact and €30. The OP is a chancer!

ejmaztec

First off, business records are supposed to be kept for 6 years, which is the time specified by the Revenue Commissioners, though how this relates to the treatment of Gift Vouchers is questionable.

One thing that I remember about law studies is that the expression "reasonable time" gets thrown round a lot, meaning that, even though someone may be in the right, the length of time that they waited before putting in a claim cancels any right that they once had. What is a "reasonable time" is up to the judge, registrar etc.

This could have been the reason why AlwaysAmber's old customer went away sobbing from the Small Claims Court.

*****************************

The National Consumer Agency even has a list on their website of various shops etc, and specifies the expiry dates, if any, of gift vouchers.

Here's a bit from:http://www.consumerconnect.ie/eng/Hot_Topics/Campaigns/Gift Vouchers/

"Expiry dates

Expiry dates also vary widely. Some shops give you six months to redeem your voucher, so a gift token you received at Christmas and left in the bottom drawer will be no use by the following July.
Other shops have far more flexible "no expiry" vouchers or may be willing to extend the expiry date if requested. But remember that just because a voucher doesn't actually state an expiry date, this doesn't mean that the shop operates an open ended expiry policy.
If a shop refuses to honour a voucher that doesn't specify an expiry date, you have the option to refer the matter to the Small Claims Court."

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

You have hit the nail on the head. In law "reasonable time" is quite discretionary but judges at Small Claims are usually equitable in their rulings. 6 years for a voucher from a chain store, I feel, will be thrown out as unreasonable as the customer had ample opportunities and goods available to purchase from the store during that period. Any claim of mislaying the voucher for 6 years would be deemed the claimants own fault. Reasonable Time is the key. 6 years is not reasonable in anyones language in this case.

slave1

do you not get the fee back also?

According to the small claims procedure you are only entitled to the cost of the good so the €15 fee is gone.
I took a small claim and the third party wrote out to me straight away and offered the full cost of good which is the max the small claims cover. However I was so pissed off with the hassle they gave me I refused their offer and looked for the cost (€6) of my registered letter to them (which they never answered) the cost of the small claim (€15) and "grief" money.
They replied saying I was only entitled to the cost of the good, I said fine, see you in court.
They paid everything I asked for to avoid the court appearance.

If you don't ask, you won't receive.

borderlinemeath

6 years is too long a reasonable time to wait to use a voucher in my opinion.
The amount of the voucher is insignificant enough that it was forgotton about ie if the voucher was for €200 I doubt very much the OP would have left it for 6 years.
So if it did reach the SCC (which I doubt) a reasonable judge would view it as a petty claim by the consumer and dismiss it.

Dublindude69

Red Alert wrote: »

Would a shop not apply principles of good customer service, like Fergal Quinn talks about in Crowning The Customer? This means that they're likely to ensure that by not taking the voucher:

a) The customer never comes back
b) The customer tells all their friends about the experience
c) Their friends don't go there

They've essentially cost themselves business. I for one will never do business with a trader who behaves in a fashion like that, even if they're legally on the right side of the line.

There are some customers to may not want to come back to your store.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Red Alert wrote: »

Would a shop not apply principles of good customer service, like Fergal Quinn talks about in Crowning The Customer? This means that they're likely to ensure that by not taking the voucher:

a) The customer never comes back
b) The customer tells all their friends about the experience
c) Their friends don't go there

They've essentially cost themselves business. I for one will never do business with a trader who behaves in a fashion like that, even if they're legally on the right side of the line.

Would you really want a customer like this back. Cashing-in vouchers only every 6 years?

eightyfish

Red Alert wrote: »

They've essentially cost themselves business.

I disagree with the previous two posts. I think the shop should take the voucher. In terms of good customer service, and for the sake of €30, it's best to please the customer rather than, as you say, ensuring they will never come back and tell all their friends.

The point is, though, that they are not obliged to - and anyone who keeps a voucher in a drawer for 6 years is not entitled to have it accepted.

ejmaztec

eightyfish wrote: »

I disagree with the previous two posts. I think the shop should take the voucher. In terms of good customer service, and for the sake of €30, it's best to please the customer rather than, as you say, ensuring they will never come back and tell all their friends.

In a hypothetical situation, the trader might not be certain that it's genuine, and having shreaded his 6+ years records, won't be able to track the transaction. This could be another reason for a trader's reluctance to accept it.

Welease

ejmaztec wrote: »

In a hypothetical situation, the trader might not be certain that it's genuine, and having shreaded his 6+ years records, won't be able to track the transaction. This could be another reason for a trader's reluctance to accept it.

Or maybe he's just not that bothered about someone who hasn't shopped there in over 6 years.

ejmaztec

Welease wrote: »

Or maybe he's just not that bothered about someone who hasn't shopped there in over 6 years.

I think we've already had that one:P, but the person who bought the voucher my be a regular customer who, once he forgives the recipient of his generous gift for waiting 6 years, takes his business elsewhere after beating a refund out of the shop manager.:eek:

borderlinemeath

Alfredo Gorgeous Wildfire wrote: »

Would you really want a customer like this back. Cashing-in vouchers only every 6 years?

Exactly, some "customers" aren't worth the hassle!
The same said customers are the type that return goods way outside the store policy and expect "goodwill" to be shown to them.

slave1

Who is the "respondant" in this case? Do I just enter the name of the company, or do I need the name of a specific person at the company?

Just noticed this, you have to use the respondant company's registered address or else your small claim will be thrown out, check the name on www.cro.ie.