MMA Intervarsities 2010

Kerikosan

Hey guys just wondering if there is a web page or sum thing in regards to Info on this Event as its date in the 11th April, is right around the corner.

I And a friend Run The C.I.T MMA Club and we would have loved to compete in the Submission Grappling tournament but we were to late upon hearing of its happening to get the teams organized and up there to compete.. we are a Good club Having 40 guys regularly training and we hope to send between 10 and 20 fighters to the 2010 MMA Intervarsities this week but!

There is nothing on Cusai, and im finding it hard to find any details about it besides similarities to the 2010 submission grappling tournament the other week..

Help please

ittmixedmartial

hey man yeah the comp is on the 11th in dcu same time etc as the sub grappling comp

OMCCABE

Hey guys


Yes we are on for this sunday. Can't wait for this event and hoping for a big turnout from all colleges etc.

Weigh ins
Weigh ins are from 10 to 11.

Entrance fee
€15

Rules
There will be 2 categories for this event. Under 2 years and over 2 years. I will post the weight categories tomorrow also but they will be a bit wider than the grappling event in order to make the categories as active as possible.

There are no head shots standing or on the ground. All categories will use similar rules to the intermediate division of the grappling intervarsity. There will be a rules meeting before the event kicks off on the day.

Categories will be knockout and we will be aiming for each competitor to get at least 2 matches.

College rankings
There will be no team event in this competition. An overall winner will be decided by a medal table from all categories.


Any questions, go ahead and ask.

Oisin

Kerikosan

Thanks,

Is there any chance the official rules for the mma comp could be posted up
as our club is running a camp this week for preparation and we want to know what strikes, chokes and submissions are allowed i.e leg locks, flying submissions.

Do we Dont waste time training in moves which wont be allowed on the day.

I'll take the rules as Ur saying,

Legal Techniques:

Standing

1. All punching and kicking techniques to the body or legs.
2. All knee strikes to the body or legs.
3. All throws & take downs.

On the ground

1. Punches and knees to the body only.
2. All permitted submissions.

Intermediate rules from the grappling tournament are applying here.

No Head strikes Standing or on the ground
No attacks on opponents leg or groin (Leg and body kicks allowed MMA)
No No neck cranking attacks such as Can-opener, Crucifix etc.
No slams out of submissions ???
No bicep slicers
Flying and standing submissions are allowed
Straight Achilles lock is only leg lock allowed allowed

Restarts

The match will be restarted in the case of the following

1. Competitors are in danger of leaving the matted area
2. The referee needs to check a cut
3. The referee needs to re-position or replace safety equipment

In the case of this type of a restart the fighters will be restarted in the same basic strategic position in the center of the area.

If there is a restart due to a prolonged lack of action from grounded fighters, the fighters will be restarted standing.

ILLEGAL TECHNIQUES:

1. No hair-pulling, biting, eye gouging, head-butting, ear pulling or fish-hooking.
2. No elbow strikes permitted.
3. No manipulation of small joints (fingers, toes).
4. No striking directly to joints.
5. No holding of gloves or other safety equipment.
6. No heel-hooking or any other technique that places a twisting motion on the ankle or knee joint.
7. No standing submission attempts
8. No pulling of clothing permitted except to opponent's belt, or to opponents wearing GI's.
9. No striking directly to spine.
10. No neck cranking attacks such as Can-opener, Crucifix etc.
11. No groin strikes permitted.
12. Striking not permitted for fighters at different levels (e.g., one grounded, one standing).
13. Directly attacking the nose is not permitted.
14. Any technique which results in, or is liable to result in, your opponent being spiked (dropped directly on to his/her head).
15. Throat strikes of any kind, including without limitation, grabbing the trachea or clavicle.
16. Clawing, pinching or twisting the flesh.
17. Kicking to the kidney with the heel.
18. Throwing the competitor out of the fighting area.

RULES:

1. All matches that go the full 5 minutes will be classified as a draw - there is no judge's decision.
2. All matches are full-contact.
3. The referee can warn or disqualify any competitor for disobeying the rules.
4. If a fighter is not intelligently defending himself then the referee will stop the match.
5. The referee's instructions must be adhered to and his or her decisions are final.
6. Gum Shields must remain in the mouth at all times. The referee may pause the action to replace gum shields that have fallen from a competitor's mouth.
7. Safety equipment must remain properly attached to the body. The referee can pause the action for required adjustment of any safety equipment.
8. A fighter is classed as 'grounded' if any part of their body, except for the soles of the feet, comes into contact with the mat.
9. Fighters must remain within the fighting area. Failure to do so could result in a warning for standing fighters or a re-start for grounded fighters.
10. The referee can stand grounded fighters if there is a prolonged 'lack of action' on the ground.
11. One coach is allowed in the fighting area. Coaches must keep outside the matted area.
12. All competitors are expected to behave in a 'sportsman-like' manner.
13. Competitors who wish to retire at any stage must communicate this to the competition host.
14. No oils (including Vaseline) may be applied to any part of the body.

Sid_Justice

I'd suggest the best course of action is to follow Mark Leonard's MMA league rules as posted above. They've been tried and tested and refined over the last 5/6 years. I don't think there is any way to improve on them from a novice perspective. I'm not sure why Oisín has 'banned' Velcro fastening shin guards.

pablohoney87

Sid_Justice wrote: »

I'd suggest the best course of action is to follow Mark Leonard's MMA league rules as posted above. They've been tried and tested and refined over the last 5/6 years. I don't think there is any way to improve on them from a novice perspective. I'm not sure why Oisín has 'banned' Velcro fastening shin guards.

Yeah. So long as they're on properly theyre much better. They dont get caught and fold up like the slip on ones.

Barry.Oglesby

Velcro fastening ones are grand as long as they're manufactured properly. most ones people buy are pants though and have exposed velcro edgings that snag at the skin.

Also, ever tried to pass half guard in big shin pads? They either come off or get caught. As far as I know Mark doesn't allow them in the MMA league either.

Kerikosan

Yeah im not looking forward to passing the guard in the shin guards haha
but it will be interesting none the less.

I have a very good pair of Shin pads but they are Velcro so I've to buy a pair of the sock kind b4 I go up..

Thanks lads

BobbyOLeary

No bicep slicers

Always wondered about this one, why so? It's illegal in proper BJJ comps too I think. I've caught one or two people with this but it was usually because I couldn't finish an armbar and I wussed out :pac:

Kerikosan

I heard the lock is very dangerous,

like it tears the bicep/triceps muscle very easily?

also heard it breaks bones???

so ill leave it to the experts

Sid_Justice

I don't think there will be any killer bicep slicer practioneers who can turn it into a arm crusher and break someone's arm? but what do i know? Actually didn't one of the girls that do mma break her arm in a regular armbar cos she already had a fracture?

I did the mma league in giant thai shin pads and kept getting stuck in knee on the belly transition. I'm not saying they're the most effective thing to grapple in, but I don't see why they should be banned. What i really mean is I don't want to buy new pads.

Daniel2oo9

Wheres this happening?

Sid_Justice

DCU, Dublin 9

OMCCABE

Barry.Oglesby wrote: »

Velcro fastening ones are grand as long as they're manufactured properly. most ones people buy are pants though and have exposed velcro edgings that snag at the skin.

Also, ever tried to pass half guard in big shin pads? They either come off or get caught. As far as I know Mark doesn't allow them in the MMA league either.

Bingo...some would be ok but no doubt many would be turning up with bad ones.

OMCCABE

Kerikosan wrote: »

I heard the lock is very dangerous,

like it tears the bicep/triceps muscle very easily?

also heard it breaks bones???

so ill leave it to the experts

Everything gonna end badly when something is applied full on the the recipient doesn't tap but I've found this move to be a pain sub. Its feasable that you could have guys mentally strong enough to resist it when not applied full force..but guess what the other guy does when his 70% bicep slicer isn't getting the tap??? I assume this is why it is banned.

BobbyOLeary

OMCCABE wrote: »

but guess what the other guy does when his 70% bicep slicer isn't getting the tap??? I assume this is why it is banned.

Similar to what the guy with his armbar does I guess? I dunno, I can't see someone breaking anothers arm any easier with this than with an armbar, though that's technically not a break and only a dislocation but you get me. I'm not a fan of the bicep slicer and don't care if it's disallowed but I'm just trying to get my head around why this is banned and other subs aren't?

Again I don't really care so don't take this as me whinging, I'm just curious. I understand leglocks due to the whole pain coming after damage thing but I've been bicep sliced (correct phrase?) and lived to tell the tale :pac::pac::pac:

OMCCABE

BobbyOLeary wrote: »

Similar to what the guy with his armbar does I guess? I dunno, I can't see someone breaking anothers arm any easier with this than with an armbar, though that's technically not a break and only a dislocation but you get me. I'm not a fan of the bicep slicer and don't care if it's disallowed but I'm just trying to get my head around why this is banned and other subs aren't?

Again I don't really care so don't take this as me whinging, I'm just curious. I understand leglocks due to the whole pain coming after damage thing but I've been bicep sliced (correct phrase?) and lived to tell the tale :pac::pac::pac:

I thought a bit more on it and I suppose it may be a mix of the speed in which the sub comes on and also that fact that it is seperating the joint rather than hyper extending. Meh..either way its banned so get over it and stop whinging .


Hope to have you and a few of your guys down Bobby. They looked great at the grappling intervarsities.

OMCCABE

Kerikosan wrote: »

Thanks,

Is there any chance the official rules for the mma comp could be posted up
as our club is running a camp this week for preparation and we want to know what strikes, chokes and submissions are allowed i.e leg locks, flying submissions.

Do we Dont waste time training in moves which wont be allowed on the day.

I'll take the rules as Ur saying,

Will answer this question for everybodues benefit.

MOST IMPORTANT RULE..there IS a judges decision..the referee will serve as judge in the event of the fight reaching its 5 min mark. I expect everyone to respect the referee's call just like in the grappling intervarsites.

Sportsmanship is the most important aspect of this competition and if you aren't capable of it then find a different MMA intervarsities to attend.

No standing submissions
No leg locks (except for straight achilles lock in over 2 years category)
No slams out of submissions
No holding gloves or other safety equipment
No striking at different levels...grounded v standing
No techniques that results in or may have resulted in competitor being dropped on head (no exceptions here)
No neck cranks

The rest is obvious and shouldn't influence your training.

Any other questions then feel free to ask away mate.

Oisin

rynkov

Hello
Who can compete in this tournament?I am from Poland and i am training MMA in Dublin.

BobbyOLeary

rynkov wrote: »

Hello
Who can compete in this tournament?I am from Poland and i am training MMA in Dublin.

Same as the Submission Wrestling Intervarsities. Anyone who can provide proof of being a student in an Irish 3rd level institution.

Niall0

OMCCABE wrote: »

Hey guys

Rules
I will post the weight categories tomorrow also but they will be a bit wider than the grappling event in order to make the categories as active as possible.

Hi Oisin, just wondering what the weight classes are, and under the rules are standing guillotines allowed?

OMCCABE

Niall0 wrote: »

Hi Oisin, just wondering what the weight classes are, and under the rules are standing guillotines allowed?

No standing guillotines allowed as its a standing submission. You can lock on a guillotine standing and pull guard however to finish it grounded.


Will post weight classes tonight.

dasmoose

OMCCABE wrote: »

No standing guillotines allowed as its a standing submission. You can lock on a guillotine standing and pull guard however to finish it grounded.
.

I think you're kind of going by the letter of the rule rather than the spirit here oisin, the point of not allowing standing submissions is that things like flying armbars, standing kimuras etc are inherently risky because you dont have proper control over your opponent. A standing guillotine is no more dangerous than a grounded guillotine because to finish it you attain a stable stance and arch your back, i.e. you can put the submission on with control.

I think they should be allowed as it's a real gamechanger not to allow them.

Sid_Justice

Does anyone know if Richard Gorey from Kilkenny is competing at this?

Gorey_R

Sid_Justice wrote: »

Does anyone know if Richard Gorey from Kilkenny is competing at this?

I don't think I will be competing. I generally fight a-b class in mma and i have a fight coming up. It looks like it'll be good though!

Sid_Justice

Good luck with that Richard

Mark Hamill

dasmoose wrote: »

I think you're kind of going by the letter of the rule rather than the spirit here oisin, the point of not allowing standing submissions is that things like flying armbars, standing kimuras etc are inherently risky because you dont have proper control over your opponent. A standing guillotine is no more dangerous than a grounded guillotine because to finish it you attain a stable stance and arch your back, i.e. you can put the submission on with control.

I think they should be allowed as it's a real gamechanger not to allow them.

I think that goes for all/most standing chokes, doesn't it? The danger of a standing sub is in what happens if the person you are putting them on looses balance and falls. With things like kimuras, there is a danger of them putting large amounts of pressure on their shoulders in awkward angles, so a high chance of injury. With chokes, like guillotines or rncs or bread baskets, there is a lot less danger of injury.

OMCCABE

dasmoose wrote: »

I think you're kind of going by the letter of the rule rather than the spirit here oisin, the point of not allowing standing submissions is that things like flying armbars, standing kimuras etc are inherently risky because you dont have proper control over your opponent. A standing guillotine is no more dangerous than a grounded guillotine because to finish it you attain a stable stance and arch your back, i.e. you can put the submission on with control.

I think they should be allowed as it's a real gamechanger not to allow them.

Cool. They're in so. We'll go through it on the day. That means we're also including standing arm triangles, RNC's. Generally speaking standing chokes.

It is the Kimura that is the risk so no standing arm locks will be allowed.

Oisin

pablohoney87

I bow to you greater knowledge here mark but what is a bread basket?

Niall0

OMCCABE wrote: »

Cool. They're in so. We'll go through it on the day. That means we're also including standing arm triangles, RNC's. Generally speaking standing chokes.

It is the Kimura that is the risk so no standing arm locks will be allowed.

Oisin

cool, have the weight classes been set yet ?

OMCCABE

The weight classes are as follows

Under
65kg(featherweight)
70kg(lightweight)
77kg(welterweight)
84kg(Middle weight)
93kg(light heavy)
Heavyweight (no limit)

There will be a seperate ladies absolute division also.


Oisin

Mark Hamill

Kerikosan wrote: »

I heard the lock is very dangerous,

like it tears the bicep/triceps muscle very easily?

also heard it breaks bones???

so ill leave it to the experts

I would say it is less dangerous to hold out to a bicep slicer than a kimura. Slicers are very painful if done right, but it would take an incredible amount of force to actually cause someones arm to break or elbow to seperate with one (I've been doing them and been on the recieving end of them for years)

OMCCABE wrote: »

Everything gonna end badly when something is applied full on the the recipient doesn't tap but I've found this move to be a pain sub.

Isn't every sub that isn't a choke/strangulation a pain sub?

OMCCABE wrote: »

Its feasable that you could have guys mentally strong enough to resist it when not applied full force..but guess what the other guy does when his 70% bicep slicer isn't getting the tap??? I assume this is why it is banned.

Absolutely no different to an arm bar or kimura though. Someone puts one on 70%, opponent doesn't immediately tap, so they yank it on the rest of the way and break his/her arm/shoulder. While the slicer is much more painful than an armbar or kimura, its mostly just pain (ie not damage), which goes away after a few minutes with little or no lasting soreness. A jammed on armbar or kimura will leave your arm/shoulder in bits for days afterwards.

Mark Hamill

pablohoney87 wrote: »

I bow to you greater knowledge here mark but what is a bread basket?

Looking up lockflow for pictures, it seems its actually called a chest choke. Its similar to a guillotine and one of the reasons why you shouldn't let people pull your head down in clinch.

pablohoney87

Mark Hamill wrote: »

Looking up lockflow for pictures, it seems its actually called a chest choke. Its similar to a guillotine and one of the reasons why you shouldn't let people pull your head down in clinch.

Id still just class this as a guillotine.
Slightly wonky but still a guillotine.

BobbyOLeary

pablohoney87 wrote: »

Id still just class this as a guillotine.
Slightly wonky but still a guillotine.

It doesn't feel like a guillotine at all oddly though I'd put it in the same category. Croke caught me with one last week and I didn't know what was going on. It's happening more and more this week that people are only catching me with subs that I don't know myself. Dunno if it's a good sign or bad sign.

pablohoney87

BobbyOLeary wrote: »

It doesn't feel like a guillotine at all oddly though I'd put it in the same category. Croke caught me with one last week and I didn't know what was going on. It's happening more and more this week that people are only catching me with subs that I don't know myself. Dunno if it's a good sign or bad sign.

If crole has to resort to anything accept a darce to beat ya its a good sign that he has to try new things for a change.
Also check out this vid.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5Gmn3YDxJo

rafther

wat about the guillotine suplex lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8jjG1CfqNo&NR=1

Mark Hamill

pablohoney87 wrote: »

Id still just class this as a guillotine.
Slightly wonky but still a guillotine.

Its a little like a guillotine, but you dont finsh it by just pulling hard with your arms and arching your back backwards (your opponents head will pop out), you have to keep your chest over your partners head and use just the rotation of the cupped hands to finish. Done properly, it will come on quicker than a guillotine and with less strength needed too.

weemate

Mark Hamill wrote: »

I would say it is less dangerous to hold out to a bicep slicer than a kimura. Slicers are very painful if done right, but it would take an incredible amount of force to actually cause someones arm to break or elbow to seperate with one (I've been doing them and been on the recieving end of them for years)


Isn't every sub that isn't a choke/strangulation a pain sub?


Absolutely no different to an arm bar or kimura though. Someone puts one on 70%, opponent doesn't immediately tap, so they yank it on the rest of the way and break his/her arm/shoulder. While the slicer is much more painful than an armbar or kimura, its mostly just pain (ie not damage), which goes away after a few minutes with little or no lasting soreness. A jammed on armbar or kimura will leave your arm/shoulder in bits for days afterwards.

bicep slicers are fookin dangerous.....end off!
the problem with a slicer is that it is a build up of pressure rather than a sharp twist as in a kimura.When a bicep slicer is performed properly,when you feel the pain it is usually too late to tap out.
I recall seeing one put on properly at a tournament and seeing the aftermath of the technique.The guy didnt have time to tap and the result was having to have surgery to repair a shattered arm.There is a marked difference to a kimura and so because of that they are banned.It's like saying theres no difference between an achellies lock and a heel hook.

Mark Hamill

weemate wrote: »

bicep slicers are fookin dangerous.....end off!
the problem with a slicer is that it is a build up of pressure rather than a sharp twist as in a kimura.When a bicep slicer is performed properly,when you feel the pain it is usually too late to tap out.

I've been doing them for years, they aren't dangerous. The slicer is a build up of pain, but even with relatively little pressure, you will feel pain. With the perfect set up (against not much stronger opponents) you can finish a slicer using just your arms and leverage, legs arent needed.

weemate wrote: »

I recall seeing one put on properly at a tournament and seeing the aftermath of the technique.

The mans arms must have been as brittle as glass to shatter from a slicer, besides which a perfect slicer cuts into the bicep long before the pressure hits the forearm bone (hence they are called bicep slicers and not forearmbars).

weemate wrote: »

The guy didnt have time to tap and the result was having to have surgery to repair a shattered arm.

The only time I was injured in competition was when an armbar was jammed on and I didn't have time to tap. My fore arm swelled up to nearly twice its size. All subs are dangerous if they are jammed on before the opponent realises whats going on.

weemate wrote: »

There is a marked difference to a kimura and so because of that they are banned.It's like saying theres no difference between an achellies lock and a heel hook.

I didn't say there wasn't a difference, I even said they where safer because of how early the pain comes on in them and how much you would need to endure in order to get injured.

Barry.Oglesby

Slicers only don't cause injury when people know and understand them well enough to apply them slowly and bring about the response they're looking for in their partner gradually. That's the same reason some people can train with heel hooks and not destroy knees. In a competition, slicers are rightly banned up to a certain point. I've only seen 2 arms bust in BJJ/MMA and one of them was from a slicer.

Sid_Justice

Simon Hayes, BJJ Blackbelt and a coach in Carlson Gracie London explains his opinion on bicep slicers here:

http://cagewarriors.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51842

Mark Hamill

Barry.Oglesby wrote: »

Slicers only don't cause injury when people know and understand them well enough to apply them slowly and bring about the response they're looking for in their partner gradually.

And that applies to kimuras and armbars too. Recklessly jam on an armbar as hard as you can and you will tear ligaments.

Barry.Oglesby wrote: »

That's the same reason some people can train with heel hooks and not destroy knees.

There's a big difference between heel hooks and bicep slicers. Heel hooks are dangerous because they dont hurt very quickly and defending in the wrong way twists on your knee, putting it in danger of serious injury. Slicers are only dangerous if you are stupid enough not to tap to the pain, which comes on very quickly, but this is the same danger in kimuras and armbars.

Barry.Oglesby wrote: »

In a competition, slicers are rightly banned up to a certain point.

I'm not saying they should be allowed for beginners (who could well be stupid enough not to something that hurts like a bicep slicer), but they should certainly be allowed in all advanced categories (3 yrs + exp/Blue belts or better) and even most intermediate categories.

Barry.Oglesby wrote: »

I've only seen 2 arms bust in BJJ/MMA and one of them was from a slicer.

The only arm injuries I've seen have been from armbars and kimuras being jammed on like crazy. I'm not saying you wont get injuries from slicers in the same situations, but slicers hold no greater danger than armbars or kimuras.

Barry.Oglesby

I don't think we're going to agree here so I'll leave it.

Sid_Justice

ah barry come on this is the internet, get back in there for round 2

OMCCABE

TOMORROW'S THE DAY!!!!

Weighins from 10 to 11. €15 entry fee.


It looks like this event is going to be a great one.

See you all tomorrow.

OMCCABE

A big thanks to all the competitors and coaches that competed in DCU today and made the event such a great success.

I'd like to especially thank Barry from Informed Performance Gym and Jim from UCD for agreeing to referee the matches. They did a great job.

Well done to everyone. Hopefully this will be the first of many events for future years.

Results coming up.


Oisin

onlyasuggestion

some craic today, good atmosphere. can't wait to see some of the videos from this one!

OMCCABE

U65kg - featherweight
1.Alan Kerslake (DCU)
2.Karl Deery (DCU/Cholaiste Dhulaigh)
3.Rory O'Shaughnessy (ITT)

Womens
1.Megan O'Loughlin
2.Sheena O'Loughlin

U70kg - lightweight
1.Conor McGin (DCU)
2.Tom Hennessy (DCU)
3.Owen Murphy (CIT)

U77kg - welterweight
1.Kevin Doyle (ITT)
2.Philip Tyrell (ITT)
3.Conor Hession (ITT)

U84kg - middleweight
1.Dillon O'Kane (DCU/Cholaiste Dhulaigh)
2.Ciaran Barter (Cholaiste Dhulaigh)
3.Anthony Barter (DCU)

U93kg - light heavyweight
1.Craig Knott (CIT)
2.Michael Herron (DCU)
3.Cristian Hamas (ITT)

Heavyweight
1.Conor McMahon (DCU)
2.Mark Clarke (ITT)
3.Jonathan Adams (CIT)

Kerikosan

Yeah it was a good competition, Can only get better

The name is Jonathan Adams, for the Heavy weight 3rd place also

OMCCABE

Kerikosan wrote: »

Yeah it was a good competition, Can only get better

The name is Jonathan Adams, for the Heavy weight 3rd place also

Fixed. Glad you enjoyed yourself. Great to see you guys make the trip all the way up from Cork.