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Could the Midlands Do with an Airsoft Shop
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and thats what i was looking input both positive and negitive, and if its all conducted in a polilite manner then it will form some good research material but if it turns into a i can shout u down thread whats the point. oh and just to answer the pm's "no i am not thinking about opening a shop"well i say your getting good research your getting both positive and negative inputs to factor into what your thinking about, when you look at it the posters your getting some rather interesting feed back from a fair number of people who have either a big experience of national and international airsoft or have experiences in some area of the airsoft retail in Ireland
you may get people with strong opinions and views but i would rather have this and a range of inputs than a thread full of ' cool idea'
well its more interesting to see who is saying what, see comment above this quote
know don;t get me wrong there may be a market in your area for a shop, but if there is the market it will serve will more than likely have nothing to do with the existing boards community0 -
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Doc i realise its not market research but ya gotta start somewhereI don't think we need yet another store.
I think most of the points here have been made.
We also have the benefit of having a fairly decent online service throughout all the stores, when you order something you are going to have it within 48 hours if its in stock.
With more and more shops, business is going to get spread pretty thin, I would guess its pretty thin as it is. It stiffles current business to expand and be more innovative in their product lines. Common misconception is that they should do it to ATTRACT business, when in fact, this isn't the case. Custom needs to be coming through the door regularly to spark the will for expansion on product lines and quantity. If retailers cant shift current stock, they wont invest in more : /
Maybe there would be demand for one, maybe, but the country really doesnt need ANOTHER retailer.
And I notice in airsoft that people say " theres huge demand here" or "this would go down really well" when in fact its actually one guy talking about how he would love a shop near him, but one guy doesnt keep a shop open.
Trev I know this aint you but thered have to be proper market research, which I guarantee I'd say about 99.9% of new airsoft business' dont do.
Coming on boards asking " are you interested" isnt market research. Your going to get a handful of people saying "awesome"
Is it any wonder that shops and sites pop up every month, take away business from others, then crumble away in their corner with their 5 loyal customers until they eventually shut up shop : /
Market research people, geographic population surveying.
If I said "Would anyone think a shop in swords would go well" I'll get sodo swords and pk and a few others come on tell me how it would be awesome, but in fact, it just wouldnt : / its something i have pondered over for a long time would an airsoft shop do well down here, so i put it out there ok boards is not the whole airsoft community but its a start, if the idea gets shot down well there ya have it, its off to dublin i go. if a retailer says f*uck it there might be an opening there happy days, but at the end of the day there is an area down here that can be exploited be it through advertisement or sales there is a market. any fairs you go to down here have airsoft stalls at them and the q's do be across the field. and the question people keep asking is where do i get them they may not want to play the might want to hang it over their fire place but its a sale
would it be enough to keep a shop open i have no idea i dont run a shop but its worth looking into0 -
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Get what your saying Trev.
Some research would want to be done though before someone throws money into it. Or even contemplates it
Skirmish sites in the area
Local demographic
Customer shopping hotspots
Airsofters in the region
Current retailers in the region.
I still get a bit confused when I see new shops opening up, the barriers to entry are so high I cant see how anyone thinks they can make any living in it, if I got a large wad of cash in my hand right now, the very last thing I'd do with it is open a shop.
Foothold by already established large retailers
M.I.A, Eirsoft, Hobby. The three big guns I'd say if asked "who are the top dogs". Big stores, competitive prices, huge ranges, mostly quality reputations and strong after sales support. If your a new entrant into the market, you should be quivering in your boots.
Strong online service currently in place
Most of the retailers in place have online stores and websites. Most have all their products online with stock levels, and shipping is pretty cheap, service time within 48hours. Comfort from shopping at home. At this point a new entry level store should be asking themselves why bother
Customer loyalty hard to break
All the big guns have been operating for some time now. They have good links and ties within the community and throughout the airsoft sites. Everyone has their favorite store, and after an initial period, stick with one store and keep going back. Its very hard, especially in airsoft to break that loyalty, cause in this industry more then others, you do get genuine customer satisfaction and looked after in stores. So as a new store, your looking to break down customer loyalty thats been built up over 2 -3 years.
Stock ranges and exclusives gone
At this point everyone knows what the good brands are and whats the bad ones. But at this point, all the big stores have the exclusives, they have the foothold on all the big products and they have the connections. Their suppliers arnt going to supply you, cause they dont want any trouble stirring, and why would suppliers want to ruffle their big irish connections?
So now your stuck looking at what sort of products your going to sell, knowing that you cant sell the best of the best, cause you probably cant get your hands on them.
New legal requirements
So after you have gone through all of the above, now you have new legal requirements to deal with and or worry about. You need a fixed premises, you need to sell only airsoft gear yada yada. You may get a really rough time since your a new retailer. The other retailers are ok, they've been in the game, they have got their references they have their experience behind them, youve got nothing.
Where to make your money
So where do you see the money being made in this? Are you going to provide some innovative service that no other offers? Some places think about this with doing upgrade and mod parts and the likes, but long behold, its minimal business, more hassle then its worth and piss poor return on investment.
Guns? We have touched on that above, you are still puzzled over what type of product you can stock or sell, and likelyhood is, starting off, you cant compete price wise with the big boys.
Accessories?
We can get them in for a penny to nothing from China, accessories arnt really a big seller, unless its a walk in store, youve got something tasty and someone has a few quid in their pocket. Accessories are impluse buys, no one goes out with the intention of buying them, so this income cant be forseen, and is a little suprise for you on a daily basis.
Consumables?
Probably your best source of steady income, your gas, your BB's, your Co2 etc. But shock horror, the big boys have the connections and the finance to buy in bulk, therefore costing them less then your first few purchases. They can sell onto customers for less, they can throw them in free for the laugh. But they buy in such bulk, suppliers might be a little hesitant to sell to you, incase they upset their other irish contract, who has been with them longer, and buys more then you, therefore valued more then you.
You will probably end up going to one of the big retailers, and using them as your supplier, therefore, really negating any profit you could have made, since you cant sell it cheaper then they do.
And since its going to be the same product, customers will shop with the big dog, not you.
And since your buying of the big dog, your pumping your finance into his spending power, making him, yes you got it, a bigger dog.
Holy **** that was the best study preparation I could have done for my exams
But as you see theres a huge barrier to entry to this business, but people still do it, so theres something I'm obviously missing. But I just feel most of the business and ventures that spring up are short term money bursters, without long term objectivity and stability plans.0 -
Interesting as there is a shop in Swords Strikearms dont you like to shop local:rolleyes:
As you will see from my whopper post no I probably wont shop there, nothing against the guy ive met him nice bloke, but he stocks items I'm not interested in. And I think he might be a prime example of what I'm saying. Now he has gone a different direction, everything is high end, thats his niche and how hes grinding his bit.
And also I've got loyalty ( well he owns my soul and xbox) to big T (outside of when i get pissed and ring hobby with their false dreams of cheap co2 pistols)
:P0 -
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While there have been some very valid arguments raised in the thread, I think it has started to derail slightly. I don't think Stone has any interest in opening an airsoft store, (he has enough hassle in keeping the rest of us in check
) but there might be an opportunity of one of the big three (that Doc referred to) to open a smaller outlet in the region to service any particular need for walk ins?
I do agree that there are quite a number of retailers for such a small playing population and that none of us are as flush as we were when we started playing but if a retailer has a monopoly in a given geographical area, then surely some success must come of it? There is also the point that if a retailer was to setup in the area, providing they measure up to the required standards, they could also serve as a positive advertisement for the game at large.0 -
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tudenham10 wrote: »While there have been some very valid arguments raised in the thread, I think it has started to derail slightly. I don't think Stone has any interest in opening an airsoft store, (he has enough hassle in keeping the rest of us in check) but there might be an opportunity of one of the big three (that Doc referred to) to open a smaller outlet in the region to service any particular need for walk ins?
I do agree that there are quite a number of retailers for such a small playing population and that none of us are as flush as we were when we started playing but if a retailer has a monopoly in a given geographical area, then surely some success must come of it? There is also the point that if a retailer was to setup in the area, providing they measure up to the required standards, they could also serve as a positive advertisement for the game at large.
Opening any store or any venture requires finance and money put in. Now typically with any investment, you want a return within a reasonable amount of time. If your opening a big store in a big area, and have done your homework, you might see figures stating that its going to be slow starting, then peak, then steady over a long period. This typically will lead you onto expecting a ROI after 18months.
Opening a small store in a small area with a low demographic, would lead you to believe, large influx at short term, with a significant fall long term. So for your investment, you'd typically want ROI straight away, or within 6 months.
Having a store in Dublin for example, allows a number of benefits.
It has the highest pool of airsofters per city in the country. So you will get regular airsofters coming in for consumables and possible a new toy once a year.
It has the largest amount of new players. So you will snag alot of the first purchases and hopefully those will stay on as customers long term.
But the main point is having such a large proportion of the market, you know your safe in the knowledge youll have steady traffic through the door or the site week to week.
You open in an area that doesn't have alot of players or exposure.
Your relying on consumables for your trade. And maybe a couple of new gun purchases a year. But the small amount of players might treck in to kick some tyres, but ultimately just buy gas and BB's, every few weeks maybe a gun or two may be sold from your stock. So this leaves you struggling to decide what to stock from the go. Lots of guns? Gets you lots of walk ins, but maybe not alot of sales, and if that happens your left with stock taking up space.
And from experience stores that try open up shops on sites pretty much dont do well at all. Skirmishers dont come out to games with money in their pants, so your not getting any impulse purchases. Skirmishers dont go out to a site with no BB's, without any clue, hoping they can buy them there, they get them beforehand, or know they are on sale. You just wont get any impulse buys which actually accumulate to alot of an airsoft stores income. There is advantages of perhaps being able to test fire and the likes, but what you get is a huge amount of tyre kickers wanting to have a shot, leading to product deterioration. Who wants to buy stock thats being used? I know I wouldnt buy a gun being sold on an airsoft site. And with the new regulations, this option pretty much gets scrubbed of the map. So we are back to having an investor or prospector having to invest in a whole new store
And what about marketing the sport? I guess it is important for retailers, more people that know about it, play it and want in, is more foot traffic for them. But there is no metric to measure the success of a campaign of " promoting the sport". Theres no real census or the likes ( sorry the boards.ie one doesn't count) So you might be pumping money into local advertisement, but you don't get any facts or figures saying if its being a success or a failure. It might get you some more foot traffic yeah.
But unless you do the following
Research the areas you feel your marketing/promotion will be mostly penetrative.
Record current level of foot traffic (accurate estimate) and sales per day/week
Run your marketing/promotion for a valid length of time
During this time record level of foot traffic and sales per day/week
Query new customers as to where they heard of your store, and record this data
After you do this, then you can see if it was worthy or not, but alas, I assume no one does this, therefore there isnt any statistics to prove anything. And although you have put a few grand into advertising, and you "think" it has increased footraffic, what probably came out of it was a handful of people and maybe a small hundred euro worth of sales, and again, no return on investment, and your at a loss.
I'd be interested for there to be a proper census. Perhaps headed by the IAA. Have recordings for site attendance and iaa membership annually.
Think of what can be achieved after a few years
Determine accurate playerbase numbers annually
Determine where the highest concentration of players are geographically
Determine the varying age groups
Determine the turnover in player from new entrants to veterans
See clearly the peak seasons for participation
And so much more, the benefits are so obvious, and with the amount of investment now with retailes, sites and players I think there should be one undertaken. There are so many benefits to having one
Organisers can determine the proper time of year to run large scale events based on the peak play times
Retailers and site owners can see if theres an area of a large demographic of player that doesnt have adaquete facilities.
The IAA can have official statistics to present when asked about current playerbase etc
Having some facts and figures goes a long way in being taken seriously other then guestimates
Retailers can better organise their businesses with statistical aid
And back on topic, like I said, you wont gauge anything from boards, nothing at all. And if a retailer just goes and sets up a store based on boards requests its doomed to be pretty fail in the current climate.
But what you are doing it raising some awareness, and it probably will catch an eye or two of a retailer. And what they will do is go investigate, property, locations, market research, see the player base in the area and what facilities are about in relation to sites and draw etc.
Its nothing to happen overnight though
But to pose back the question, Does the midlands need an airsoft shop? Obviously I only know MAC. Is there other sites in the region? What are the player numbers like? And could the player base be able to uphold a store weekly running?
Remembering, that you buy BB's and gas once maybe every 3-4 weeks. You buy a new gun maybe twice three times a year max.
I'm just trying to convey how a store needs a really consistent customer base to run off.
I'd love an airsoft site that was strict milsim, larp, midcaps only, proper command chains the whole shabang, every week, maybe every second week.
But I know this just isn't going to happen because there isn't the demand there to uphold a business like that from running properly.
(And before you say anything Trevor, yes your the closet to a milsim home I have, but your miles away :P )0 -
Good points, well made!
I have no argument whatsoever with what you've stated, if I started multi quoting I'd be here all evening and the key point that you and Puding have made is that using a portal such as boards for any market research is pointless, for the reasons that you both stated but from a purely aspirational point of view, it would be very useful to have a respected retailer operating in the greater area to facilitate those who don't or can't make it to any of those stores in Dublin.
Now, aren't you meant to be studying??
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Wasnt going to say a word, taking everything into consideration that u just said, i dont expect any retailer to look at this thread and say holy **** theres a market there quick open a store far from it in fact, i see retailers announcing were opening a new store here and there excellent this was merely sticking a flag in the map and saying ok next time u feel flush enough to open a new store have a look at this area of the map, and i dont mean the amount of land we have, i mean the area how many travel to dublin on a regular basis to buy consumables? AEG's? Pistols. how many potential customers are down here, how many collectors, plinkers. how many people want to be educated because their son seen it on boards and wants to try it but mom & dad haven't a clue whats its about. players breed sites and if there is more players in an area then sites was be created to meet the demand and i dont mean anyone with a field i mean proper sites catering to the needs of genuine airsofters (and before anyone jumps on me thats not a dig at anyone) i strongly feel its an area that can be ventured down will it be a success i dont know thats up to the big brains to work out will i shop there on a regular basis hell yeah 0
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tudenham10 wrote: »
Now, aren't you meant to be studying??
Funny this thread came up, cause I'm actually at the moment studying business material that covers
Barriers to entry
Penetrating into an established market
E-business and the company strategy evolving with the internet
Market research
And a host of other ****. So i went on my typical long posts, cause well airsoft is more interesting
In saying that, all I've wrote could be ****ing muck, I'll fail my exams, and some poor sod is going to miss out on a whopper business opportunity, or lose a few grand, but hey, atleast I subdued the boredom for a while.0 -
i'm glad we could assist in your studies we except cash and all major credit cardsFunny this thread came up, cause I'm actually at the moment studying business material that covers
Barriers to entry
Penetrating into an established market
E-business and the company strategy evolving with the internet
Market research
And a host of other ****. So i went on my typical long posts, cause well airsoft is more interesting
In saying that, all I've wrote could be ****ing muck, I'll fail my exams, and some poor sod is going to miss out on a whopper business opportunity, or lose a few grand, but hey, atleast I subdued the boredom for a while. 0 -
Stone.cold wrote: »i'm glad we could assist in your studies we except all major credit cards
Between the bum cheeks.
On topic:
Stone.cold has the club considered setting up it's own store?
Even for just the basics.0 -
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I'm not sure about the midlands but if you have a look here (not trying to plug the site, just using it as a reference) you can see where a few sites are needed. I think there is enough shope in Ireland at the moment, but the could be a few more Skirmish Sites, just not in Leinster.
But see the problem is, ( what I see when I read into the airsoft industry)
Is business popping up where
A) They are not needed and have not enough demand to support them
Trying to muscle in on a large cluster, trying to cut a living.
Although there is obvious gaps in the map, is there demand for sites or shops in that region?
Like I said before there is a lack of statistical data available to be able to make educated decisions.
But if we look at that map ( which is a nice tool btw)
How do we know a site is needed in say Sligo? Tralee? Donegal?
And we dont get that from two lads from Tralee coming on saying " a shop would be animal in tralee" we need to know if its sustainable.
The likes of puding and paul H can give some good input here. When you look at the map, those guys are out on their own.
Now Cork is a big county with a big population. The guys run a shop and a site. Are they bursting at the seems? Is there too much demand for supply? Could they open a second site or shop? Why havnt other gone down and opened a shop in Cork, why havnt others opened sites?
I guess the answer is to what I stated above, the barriers to entry, the guys have a strong foothold there, but I'd guess also that there isnt the demand for another one, even though its a huge county. ( guesstimates dont know any statistics )0 -
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it is something i have taught about, but what i was more looking towards was a store that everyone & their dog (not saying dogs should be allowed play - lets get that clear) can enter, one example i have there was a guy this time last year i had dealings with he was so into getting started so i gave him directions to shops in dublin, problem was he worked in galway & this was before Eirsoft opened shop down there, so any way he happened to wonder in to a store purchased a pistol got completely rode on the price and quality not to mention the shop keepers attitude & that was it he walked away and now doesnt play, had he walked into one of the stores in dublin my bet is he would be still playin today likewise if a store existed in this neck of the woods he would have been sorted, its all well and good saying yeah but its only down the N4 for someone without a car, taking a bus up to get your new pistol is not all its cracked up to be, and again im sayin if there was a market down here its an optionRhinocharge wrote: »Between the bum cheeks.
On topic:
Stone.cold has the club considered setting up it's own store?
Even for just the basics.0 -
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Charlie here...personal opinion to follow...
There's scope in this market, I think for niche companies. We all know the leviathans of the market, they do what they do and more power to them.
Please dont think i'm treating your thread as advertising STONE.COLD but there's always room for the plucky underdog. We focus on the semi-serious to serious gamers and to be honest, i'd rather we sell 2 high-end AEGs than 10 clone AEGs. But thats just us. The majority of our turnover comes from high-end stuff, upgrades and modifcations.
I think what i'm trying to say is that if someone is motivated (and not by money) and they are smart with their offering then they can make a reasonable living with a well run airsoft shop.
Whats needed is balls of steel, an understanding Bank Manager (if they even exist), sound research and a love of the game.
If your plan is to throw a couple of grand into stock, sell it, get more, sell it and eventually take down the big 3 - dont be naive, do a few things really well and build up your customer base, treat them right and word of mouth will do the rest.
By the way...dont expect to be paying yourself more than minimum wage either 0 -
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