Sean Quinn owes anglo 2.5 billion, he tells rte he has 1 billion in cash

moonpurple

so send it into anglo buddy, then you owe 1.5 billion to anglo, and stop moaning about...regulation..finally:pac:

this is in politics because he is a big fianna fail bankroller
as was smirking seanie fitzpatrick
and other helicopter owners

John Gormley's corporate donations legislation proposal, if passed, may be the best legislation since women were allowed to vote in elections

yoshytoshy

I don't like the way Quinn's business was treated though ,it's wreckless to destroy reputations this way.

Healthcare has little or no competition in this country ,it's the public who benefit from companies like quinn.

Sir Oxman

The regulator regulates and people are complaining???

EKRIUQ

In the interview I saw on RTE he said he had 100 million in cash, their is a big difference.

femur61

yoshytoshy wrote: »

I don't like the way Quinn's business was treated though ,it's wreckless to destroy reputations this way.

Healthcare has little or no competition in this country ,it's the public who benefit from companies like quinn.

It true that we need competition, but who was a major reckless investor in Anglo Irish that we the tax payers are now paying for?

yoshytoshy

femur61 wrote: »

It true that we need competition, but who was a major reckless investor in Anglo Irish that we the tax payers are now paying for?

Quinn has invested heavily in Ireland ,directly with construction and financial services. If all irish elite were like him ,we would all be better for it.

He should be liable for loans ,but his businesses shouldn't be treated the way they are.

zootroid

Part of the financial crisis in this country is people complaining about the regulator being asleep at the wheel. Now that we have a regulator doing his job, you're complaining about him?

I think the regulator was right to act in the way it did. It went to the high court seeking to have the company placed in administration, and the high court agreed.

If there's anyone at fault here, it's Sean Quinn for being so reckless.

Dionysus

EKRIUQ wrote: »

In the interview I saw on RTE he said he had 100 million in cash, their is a big difference.

Ahem! Thank you. This is what he said in the interview I saw also.

old_aussie

EKRIUQ wrote: »

In the interview I saw on RTE he said he had 100 million in cash, their is a big difference.

Double or nothing on red

moonpurple

go to 34 minutes in and I quote 'it (quinn direct) has almost one billion in cash'
http://www.rte.ie/player/#v=1069935

he used the phrase that the regulator was having a 'strap' at another point

regulations are for little people?

good bye to an era when cash is king and the only authority is money
the only authority is what we vote in every 4 years.. plain and simple
michael oleary is one of the biggest tax payers without needing to fill the trough with cash for
de bhoys
...... from now on lets find out about the anglo irish companies....in advance..

yoshytoshy

zootroid wrote: »

Part of the financial crisis in this country is people complaining about the regulator being asleep at the wheel. Now that we have a regulator doing his job, you're complaining about him?

Our problems are not just because of our "regulator" ,they are because of government turning a blind eye aswell.
If anything ,the new regulator is nothing more than a debt collector.
If fianna fail were doing what they were being paid to do ,we wouldn't have the crisis we have.

People like Sean quinn took advantage of the open season ,fianna fail created.

Colonel Sanders

yoshytoshy wrote: »

I don't like the way Quinn's business was treated though ,it's wreckless to destroy reputations this way.

The insurance arm is technically insolvent, no alterior motive, no smear campaign just a fact. The regulator is correct to act in the way he is

yoshytoshy wrote: »

Healthcare has little or no competition in this country ,it's the public who benefit from companies like quinn.

The health care arm would be one of the very few very marketable assets Quinn group has. If the plug is pulled (not suggesting it will be btw!) it would probably be sold reasonably quickly and we'd be left with the same level of competition

pumpkinsoup

zootroid wrote: »

If there's anyone at fault here, it's Sean Quinn for being so reckless.

I agree. There are rules and he broke them. His 'jobs' argument is bogus and pretty sinister too. He uses the livelihoods of 5000 people to justify bad practice. Anglo Irish created jobs too!

yoshytoshy

Colonel Sanders wrote: »

The insurance arm is technically insolvent, no alterior motive, no smear campaign just a fact. The regulator is correct to act in the way he is

The health care arm would be one of the very few very marketable assets Quinn group has. If the plug is pulled (not suggesting it will be btw!) it would probably be sold reasonably quickly and we'd be left with the same level of competition

Thats fair enough ,I presumed the profits that were being forecast would justify them being kept open.

Sir Oxman

yoshytoshy wrote: »

Our problems are not just because of our "regulator" ,they are because of government turning a blind eye aswell.
If anything ,the new regulator is nothing more than a debt collector.
If fianna fail were doing what they were being paid to do ,we wouldn't have the crisis we have.

People like Sean quinn took advantage of the open season ,fianna fail created.

Zootroid said 'partly' to be fair.

Rebelheart

What's the true story with Quinn's solvency ratio?

I was listening to the excellent interview Seán Quinn gave to Seán Whelan on RTÉ here. If you go to 5.36 in that interview Quinn talks about the solvency ratio, which appears to be the crux of the problem. Quinn makes it very clear that while he would like the solvency ratios to be higher, they "were well above the statutory requirements".

Quinn said that by law he had to have 100% solvency (i.e. the ability to repay 100% of its claims), but the Regulator would have liked 150%. He said "we were well above the 100% but we didn't reach the 150%"(8.26 in the interview). He reiterates that Quinn was "always above solvency margins" many times.

My question, therefore: if it is true that Quinn Insurance was fulfilling its statutory obligations on the solvency issue, what gave the Regulator the right to put the firm under administration? (Myles Dungan covering for Pat Kenny failed to ask this question to the business journalist he was interviewing this morning)

yoshytoshy

gambiaman wrote: »

Zootroid said 'partly' to be fair.

Aye ,I see that. I'm not aware of zootroid's other views on things though. Anglo could easily be the other part of the problem?

jmayo

yoshytoshy wrote: »

I don't like the way Quinn's business was treated though ,it's wreckless to destroy reputations this way.

And I don't fu**ing like the way Quinn and his entire family played silly buggers with billions of euro trying to take over a bank, a bank which we now own due to the wrecklessness of it's executives/board and the dodgy deals they carried out, some in fact to bail out the Quinn family's spending in the bank.

I don't rate the guy anymore and in fact see him as a prime example of what is wrong with this country.
Oh yes the man who was so nice, decent hardworking, only gambled a few euro every tuesday night with his mates.
Except he didn't just gamble a few euro, he gambled billions and now we are carrying that debt.
When he, his family and his companies pony up the approx. 2.8 billion they owe our bank then I might think about his reputation.

Then he can pay back the hundreds of millions that were loaned and not repaid that were used by 10 high net worth individuals to buy his CFDs.

Until then I owe him nothing but he owes me plenty. :rolleyes:

yoshytoshy wrote: »

Healthcare has little or no competition in this country ,it's the public who benefit from companies like quinn.

No the public don't benefit from the likes of Quinn in the long term when we have to pick up the pieces after their shady deals turn sour. :mad:
Find someone decent and not a shady character who has left the taxpayers owing billions to laud and hero worship in future.

yoshytoshy wrote: »

Quinn has invested heavily in Ireland ,directly with construction and financial services. If all irish elite were like him ,we would all be better for it.

He should be liable for loans ,but his businesses shouldn't be treated the way they are.

Did he not make money from these investments or were they bsome form of charity ?

His businesses are him and vice versa.
Do you not get it, at one time they were siphoning the funds that an insurance company should have to cover their claims to buy shares in Agnlo and covers debts involved in buying those shares.
They broke the rules that are in place to protect the pooor dumb smucks who have to buy insurance with his company.

moonpurple

it is not all bad though he gave a 'gift' of 120 million to his wife and 4 kids a little while back...

sunday business post

Global Quinn: ThePost.ie
20 Nov 2005 ... His other children, Sean Junior, Collette and Aoife own the ... The family took out a €120 million “gift'' from Quinn Direct last year. ...
archives.tcm.ie › Sunday Business Post › 2005/11/20 - Similar

oldyouth

Rebelheart wrote: »

My question, therefore: if it is true that Quinn Insurance was fulfilling its statutory obligations on the solvency issue, what gave the Regulator the right to put the firm under administration? (Myles Dungan covering for Pat Kenny failed to ask this question to the business journalist he was interviewing this morning)

My understanding is that Quinn Insurance had the necessary funds to meet solvency requirements but those funds were partly given as a guarantee on loans held by other companies in the Quinn Group. In that case, if there was a default, the money forming part of the solvency fund would be due to creditors

yoshytoshy

jmayo wrote: »

And I don't fu**ing like

You'll go far with stuff like this ,well done.

beer enigma

jmayo wrote: »

No the public don't benefit from the likes of Quinn in the long term when we have to pick up the pieces after their shady deals turn sour. :mad:
Find someone decent and not a shady character who has left the taxpayers owing billions to laud and hero worship in future.

Quinn Direct & Quinn Healthcare didn't deal in Anglo, that was a personal investment that went badly wrong.

Both Direct & Healthcare have brought valuable competition to the market & are both stable companies - just go onto the motoring forum here & see the panic from the guys who cant get insurance elsewhere. And if you're comparing with VHI - just look at the risk equalisation mess that VHI are whingeing about.

You could say that Quinn Direct were 'involved' in Anglo in so much as Sean Quinn got into trouble for using Quinn Direct Monies to fund Anglo & was rightly punished. He has stated that he has 100 million cash in the bank himself whilst Direct have 1 Billion cash, but for another earlier poster to suggest he should use the 1 Billion to repay Anglo is tantamount to the same deal he got rapped on before.

anymore

yoshytoshy wrote: »

Quinn has invested heavily in Ireland ,directly with construction and financial services. If all irish elite were like him ,we would all be better for it.

He should be liable for loans ,but his businesses shouldn't be treated the way they are.

with construction and financial services You and your children will be paying the price for the 'expertise' of the great irish entrepreeurs for decades to come.
Remember the Taoiseach who said " shure you'd think they would go away and kill themselves" when questions were being asked ?

yoshytoshy

anymore wrote: »

with construction and financial services You and your children will be paying the price for the 'expertise' of the great irish entrepreeurs for decades to come.
Remember the Taoiseach who said " shure you'd think they would go away and kill themselves" when questions were being asked ?

What companies does Sean Dunne have around ireland and how many people does he employ ?

What companies does Sean Quinn have around ireland and many people does he employ ?

We're talking about the quinn group here ,if you want to talk about everyone else start a new thread.

anymore

Andip wrote: »

Quinn Direct & Quinn Healthcare didn't deal in Anglo, that was a personal investment that went badly wrong.

Both Direct & Healthcare have brought valuable competition to the market & are both stable companies - just go onto the motoring forum here & see the panic from the guys who cant get insurance elsewhere. And if you're comparing with VHI - just look at the risk equalisation mess that VHI are whingeing about.

You could say that Quinn Direct were 'involved' in Anglo in so much as Sean Quinn got into trouble for using Quinn Direct Monies to fund Anglo & was rightly punished. He has stated that he has 100 million cash in the bank himself whilst Direct have 1 Billion cash, but for another earlier poster to suggest he should use the 1 Billion to repay Anglo is tantamount to the same deal he got rapped on before.

This letter from today's irish Independent is pertinent:
http://www.independent.ie/opinion/letters/mad-with-rage-at-the-mess-were-in-2123897.html


.Sean Quinn, who saw an opening no one else could when he bought 25pc of Anglo Irish Bank, who also benefited from a Seanie FitzPatrick €300m bailout to offload his contracts for difference in Anglo, and who now owes almost €4bn to the State and others, tells us that the Financial Regulator, Matthew Elderfield, has made "the biggest mistake in Irish corporate history" in moving to appoint an interim administrator to his companies.

Although a heresy, I think Sean Quinn has gone bonkers.
It seems one of the greatest effects of Celtic Tiger-hubris has been to inculcate a deep-seated denial in its leading proponents.
Sean Quinn's reputation is of a 'man of the people'; a simple, humble man whose only pleasure is a pint with the lads and one who cares greatly for his children. Also, his patriotism grows in proportion to the questions that are asked of his role in bringing about our economic problems. Does any one else see a similarity in the rationalisation of Bertie Ahern and, more worryingly, our current Taoiseach?
The problem with leaving the people who make terrible mistakes in office is that they seem genuinely unable to assess their contribution when things go wrong.
The financial services industry is now being forced to accept the impartial 'refereeing' from the financial regulator. Arguably the role of politics is of far greater significance in causing our devastation.
There is a critical need to find out what level of culpability this Government deserves for the State's de-facto collapse.
The response to any criticism of the Government is met with a blase dismissal that the politicians are judged at the next election. If the regulator had to wait for a one-day window every five years to correct structural failures, we would all go to economic hell for good.

Liam Byrne

Andip wrote: »

Quinn Direct & Quinn Healthcare didn't deal in Anglo, that was a personal investment that went badly wrong.

If it's a "personal" investment, then how come the Quinn Direct money is involved ?

Andip wrote: »

He has stated that he has 100 million cash in the bank himself whilst Direct have 1 Billion cash, but for another earlier poster to suggest he should use the 1 Billion to repay Anglo is tantamount to the same deal he got rapped on before.

If he committed the Quinn Direct money as collateral, then he has already done this, and needs to fulfil his obligations to the country by repaying his debts.

anymore

yoshytoshy wrote: »

What companies does Sean Dunne have around ireland and how many people does he employ ?

What companies does Sean Quinn have around ireland and many people does he employ ?

We're talking about the quinn group here ,if you want to talk about everyone else start a new thread.

Before telling anyone to start a new thread, try reading the thread header :
Sean Quinn owes anglo 2.5 billion, he tells rte he has 1 billion in cash

yoshytoshy

anymore wrote: »

with construction and financial services You and your children will be paying the price for the 'expertise' of the great irish entrepreeurs for decades to come.
Remember the Taoiseach who said " shure you'd think they would go away and kill themselves" when questions were being asked ?

anymore wrote: »

Before telling anyone to start a new thread, try reading the thread header :
Sean Quinn owes anglo 2.5 billion, he tells rte he has 1 billion in cash

Exactly ,we're not talking about Irish entrepeneurs and the taoiseach.

markpb

Liam Byrne wrote: »

If he committed the Quinn Direct money as collateral, then he has already done this, and needs to fulfil his obligations to the country by repaying his debts.

Ignoring for a minute the fact that that cash *has to be there* for the insurance company to retain it's solvency ratios, what makes you think the Quinn Group isn't repaying it's debt to Anglo already? Has anyone said that they've missed an interest or capital repayment? Banks loan money, it's their business. Problems only arise when debtors don't pay but there's no proof (that I've seen) that the Quinn Griup is such a debtor

If they used the cash reserves to pay back loans:
- they might not have sufficient cash to make claims payments
- they'd be in breach of the law
- Anglo would lose money by missing out on interest margin

Liam Byrne

yoshytoshy wrote: »

Exactly ,we're not talking about Irish entrepeneurs and the taoiseach.

Ahem!

yoshytoshy wrote: »

We're talking about the quinn group here

Let me point it out more clearly :

Sean Quinn - not the Quinn Group - owes anglo 2.5 billion, he tells rte he has 1 billion in cash

anymore

yoshytoshy wrote: »

Exactly ,we're not talking about Irish entrepeneurs and the taoiseach.

Then sean quinn is not an irish entrepeneur who benefotted from the Taoiseach's mad economic policies.
Tell you what , lets start a campaign to have him cannonised : what about ' Saint Sean The Innocent ' as a title ? I know he is not dead yet, but that doesnt stop some people from treating him as if he were God !

Liam Byrne

markpb wrote: »

Ignoring for a minute the fact that that cash *has to be there* for the insurance company to retain it's solvency ratios, what makes you think the Quinn Group isn't repaying it's debt to Anglo already?

The thread is about Sean Quinn, not the Quinn Group.

yoshytoshy

anymore wrote: »

Then sean quinn is not an irish entrepeneur who benefotted from the Taoiseach's mad economic policies.
Tell you what , lets start a campaign to have him cannonised : what about ' Saint Sean The Innocent ' as a title ? I know he is not dead yet, but that doesnt stop some people from treating him as if he were God !

You can butter yourself up whatever way you please ,I have no respect or disrepect for sean quinn.
I do however have respect for the employment the quinn group provides to ireland.
Anything that threatens employment in Ireland ,I treat with contempt.

deadhead13

The regulator discovered the Quinn Insurance had made quarantess of 450 million euro to foreign banks and bondholders. This meant that while the company appeared to have 200 million euro in assets, it in fact was 250 million in the red as the guarantees could be called in at any time.

anymore

yoshytoshy wrote: »

You can butter yourself up whatever way you please ,I have no respect or disrepect for sean quinn.
I do however have respect for the employment the quinn group provides to ireland.
Anything that threatens employment in Ireland ,I treat with contempt.

You cannot talk about the Quinn Group without talking about Sean Quinn. You cannot talk about Sean Quinn without talking about Anglo Irish Bank. You cannot talk about Ango irish Bank without talking about NAMA and the destruction of the Irish economy and 400,000 unemployed. And so on........

Liam Byrne

yoshytoshy wrote: »

I have no respect or disrepect for sean quinn.

You do realise that this is a thread about him, though ?

yoshytoshy wrote: »

Anything that threatens employment in Ireland ,I treat with contempt.

Kindof a narrow view. What if there was - say - a proposed uranium treatment plant that would emply 20,000 people, except that it would threaten the health of everyone on the island ?

By your logic you'd support the treatment plant.

And that caveat is what most people apply when it comes to those who have riddled the country with debt; they might have created employment, but they've screwed up the country and caused us all to be at least €22,000 worse off...........and that means a negative net contribution from them.

yoshytoshy

anymore wrote: »

You cannot talk about the Quinn Group without talking about Sean Quinn. You cannot talk about Sean Quinn without talking about Anglo Irish Bank. You cannot talk about Ango irish Bank without talking about NAMA and the destruction of the Irish economy and 400,000 unemployed. And so on........

But we could if things were done differently.

Just because Sean Quinn has a large foothold in Ireland ,does that mean he is the only one ?

If the government were any good at their job ,we could be going about this a whole different way.

We'll end up with nothing in this country and prices will sky rocket at the same time.

Liam Byrne

yoshytoshy wrote: »

But we could if things were done differently.

Just because Sean Quinn has a large foothold in Ireland ,does that mean he is the only one ?

What do the above statements mean ? How are they even relevant ?

Regardless of how things are done and the size of his foothold, what he did was wrong and he owes a ridiculous amount of money to a bank that - unfortunately - we now own.

And he needs to pay it back and not default, or his reputation will be rightly tarnished even further......and given his previous shennanigans, the regulator is damn right to dive in at even a hint of suspicion.

Essentially, he's already on a yellow card from before, and rightly so.

anymore

yoshytoshy wrote: »

But we could if things were done differently.

Just because Sean Quinn has a large foothold in Ireland ,does that mean he is the only one ?

.

This comment comes straight from the FF :' When you are in the SH,, Manual '

When all else fails,, say you are not the only one !

yoshytoshy

Liam Byrne wrote: »

What do the above statements mean ? How are they even relevant ?

Regardless of how things are done and the size of his foothold, what he did was wrong and he owes a ridiculous amount of money to a bank that - unfortunately - we now own.

And he needs to pay it back and not default, or his reputation will be rightly tarnished even further......and given his previous shennanigans, the regulator is damn right to dive in at even a hint of suspicion.

Essentially, he's already on a yellow card from before, and rightly so.

They are mostly profitable companies that he owns ,surely winding up any of them will only cost us more money ??
Why not charge the quinn group a higher tax and also take funds from him aswell. This way we have employment ,but also get the money we are owed aswell.

yoshytoshy

anymore wrote: »

This comment comes straight from the FF :' When you are in the SH,, Manual '

When all else fails,, say you are not the only one !

You fail ,thats the only part of fianna fail you'll get out of me.

445279.ie

Anglo Irish Bank 'considering taking over Quinn Insurance'

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/anglo-irish-bank-considering-taking-over-quinn-insurance-452544.html

moonpurple

the tobacco industry creates a lot of jobs
though some of those jobs are in hospices, and pain relief hospital medicine and at undertakers

in the rte archives you will find marian finucance being told by a hurt sean fitzpatrick one saturday morning in the weeks following the blanket bank gaurantee about oppressive regulation

marion the 'outsiders insider' asked him: 'would you apologise to the irish people?'

he moved quickly on at that point...

Mr. Quinn refers to 'corporate ireland' in recent days, what part of the Dail do they sit in? I do not recall them being on any ballot list in recent years

bring in your corporate donations legislation Mr. Gormley..or make it your exit strategy otherwise..

AlekSmart

Anymore wrote:You cannot talk about the Quinn Group without talking about Sean Quinn. You cannot talk about Sean Quinn without talking about Anglo Irish Bank. You cannot talk about Ango irish Bank without talking about NAMA and the destruction of the Irish economy and 400,000 unemployed. And so on.....

Dead right,and that situation is by and large of Mr Quinn`s own choosing.

His private corporate status,which serves to keep much of his financial status off the regulatory radar carries with it the guarantee of far more stringent inspection at whatever available time arises.

The regulator discovered the Quinn Insurance had made quarantess of 450 million euro to foreign banks and bondholders. This meant that while the company appeared to have 200 million euro in assets, it in fact was 250 million in the red as the guarantees could be called in at any time.

From my perspective this appears far more about a totally different attitude from Matthew Elderfield and his team than was shown by Paddy Neary.

I have seen nothing as yet to suggest that Mr Elderfield is applying any more onerous requirements on Sean Quinn and his companies than the law requires.

How can those,such as Mr Quinn himself suggest otherwise.

I would suggest that Mr Elderfield`s actions are very much more in The Public Interest rather than being directed specifically towards maintaining a comfortable corporate status-quo for high-net-worth individuals.

If Matthew Elderfield continues in this vein then his CV as a competent and thorough regulator will benefit greatly. :eek:

K-9

445279.ie wrote: »

Anglo Irish Bank 'considering taking over Quinn Insurance'

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/anglo-irish-bank-considering-taking-over-quinn-insurance-452544.html

That is funnier than this thread!

You really couldn't make this stuff up anymore.

yoshytoshy

K-9 wrote: »

That is funnier than this thread!

You really couldn't make this stuff up anymore.

In no time at all ,we'll have a new company in Ireland.
Harney Direct.

Biffo The Bare

oldyouth wrote: »

My understanding is that Quinn Insurance had the necessary funds to meet solvency requirements but those funds were partly given as a guarantee on loans held by other companies in the Quinn Group. In that case, if there was a default, the money forming part of the solvency fund would be due to creditors

A bit like using a 100% mortgaged property as collateral to get a 100% mortgage on another property. This is incedentally the type of carry on that has us in the mess we are in now.
He should swim with all the other fishes.

thebman

There will be only a state financial sctor by the time FF are finished. Profitable or not, theywant you.

The question must be asked, is this level of state control warranted and really in the public interest?

K-9

thebman wrote: »

There will be only a state financial sctor by the time FF are finished. Profitable or not, theywant you.

Don't think so. All the evidence so far suggests they do not want to take control of institutions, only as a last resort.

moonpurple

Joe Higgins was prophetic when he suggested that Bertie was suddenly the main socialist in the Dail, everything is getting steadily nationalised, but with a different name,

'management agencies' which are run by, er, state employees

when the houses are repossessed do not worry
the state now owns a lot of empty houses,

the remedy to capitalism turns out to socialism after all, even by accident

thebman

K-9 wrote: »

Don't think so. All the evidence so far suggests they do not want to take control of institutions, only as a last resort.

Not really. Quinn insurance doesn't need to be privatised. It is not of systematic importance so Anglo Irish buying them is the state buying a private company to make it most likely that Sean Quinn will pay them back.

When does this end? Just look at all the other property developers in the country which could be in a similar boat? We could end up owning half the property companies in the country by the time this is done.