Limerick tunnel toll rip-off

rubensni

Motorbikes__________€0.90
Cars_______________€1.80
Buses______________€3.20
Commercial .5t____€3.20
>3.5t 2/3 axle_______€4.50
>3.5t 4+ axle________€5.70

OK, Slane is full of lorries avoiding the toll on the M1 Drogheda bypass, so how many trucks will pay €5.70 to get across the Shannon?

Why do motorbikes have to pay 90c when they never needed the bypass as they can just buzz through traffic? How many will bother stopping, having to pull off their helmet and gloves to fish out 90c for this?

In other words, cars will use this, no one else will bother. Too expensive.

Icky Thump

if it takes a load of cares outta the city its worth it. i wont be using it because i have no need to use it. simple as.

Berty

Your entitled to your opinion but as a car driver €1.80 is perfectly acceptable.

phog

It'll really depend on the actual journey the trucks are doing, once all the connecting motorways are open I can see too many trucks meandering around the city to save €6

counterlock

Berty wrote: »

Your entitled to your opinion but as a car driver €1.80 is perfectly acceptable.

Justify this to me Berty.

zuroph

counterlock wrote: »

Justify this to me Berty.

It allows you get across town in 6-7 minutes. Have an engineer friend working on it who drove from annacotty to the gaelic grounds via it in about 8-10 minutes. well worth it.
PLUS even if you dont use it, many many people will, so traffic in the city will be reduced for you considerably, at no extra cost to yourself.

Mrmoe

Can motorbikes use the new road? or is it just the mopeds/bikes under 50ccs that will be banned. Reasonable enough prices for the tolls I think.

Liam Byrne

I've posted elsewhere about this.

If it was €1 for cars then twice as many would use it.

Plus, all of the .90 and .80 prices are a con.......if you root around for change like that then it'll slow you up, so they're obviously hoping that people will chuck in a €2 coin.

I'll probably use it once out of curiosity, but I'm paying enough in road tax and petrol tax already, and I've no interest in adding €3.60 to the price of a round trip to Ennis.

johnnyrotten

Cheaper that the Dublin Port tunnel @ €10 for a car, recently reduced from €12

counterlock

Sure but its 18 euros per week extra if you are working in Shannon. That works out at over 800 per year (less four weeks holidays!). With the ridiculous MOTOR tax we are paying, there is no way I would be willing to pay that.

zuroph wrote: »

PLUS even if you dont use it, many many people will, so traffic in the city will be reduced for you considerably, at no extra cost to yourself.

Fingers crossed zuroph

rubensni

johnnyrotten wrote: »

Cheaper that the Dublin Port tunnel @ €10 for a car, recently reduced from €12

It's not comparable. The toll is deliberately high on the port tunnel to keep cars out, whereas it's free for HGVs.

The Limerick tunnel should be free for commercial vehicles and motorbikes. €1.80 for cars isn't too bad though.

source

If you're travelling to Ennis from Castleconnell, or Castletroy, then with the (hopefully) quieter roads, you can just get off at the dock road, which should be relatively quiet, out the condell road and rejoin the N18, IF it takes the amount of cars off the road that they're saying it will, doing that won't be too different (time wise) from taking the tunnel.

i57dwun4yb1pt8

i think the question to ask yourself is this

1/ would i spend 3.60 or close to it going the long way round - on petrol

2/ do i value my time enough to want to save some of it ?

say you save 20 - 30 mins a day -
thats about two hours a week -
100 hours a year
- 4000 hours in a 40 year working life
= 166 days or nearly 6 months of your life saved .

at a cost of 30000 euro over 40 years.

30000 euro for 6 months of your life - is it worth it ?

concussion

There's no such thing as road tax.

phog

It will come down to stuck in traffic and ease of passage, if you feel by paying the relevant toll that you will get to your destination quicker then I think the toll will be well worth it.

Kess73

I think a big factor will be how much traffic gets off of the new system at the new roundabout on the Dock road.

If a sizeable amount is getting out there each day, then there will be large tailbacks on the slip road to that roundabout from the motorway and also on the Dock road, plus having the old Cement factory roundabout in such close proximity will slow the traffic flow further there.

Plus the changing of some of the other routes once the tunnel opens, will cause a build up of traffic in the suburbs.

Stab*City

zuroph wrote: »

It allows you get across town in 6-7 minutes. Have an engineer friend working on it who drove from annacotty to the gaelic grounds via it in about 8-10 minutes. well worth it.
PLUS even if you dont use it, many many people will, so traffic in the city will be reduced for you considerably, at no extra cost to yourself.

sher when the tunnel opens you shouold if the planners are right still be able to make it from annacotty to the galic grounds in 8-10 mins without using the tunnel..

Berty

counterlock wrote: »

Justify this to me Berty.

Sitting on the Condell Road in rush hour traffic, sitting on the dock road in traffic both ways is a chore and to pay €1.80 to avoid that is fantastic.

Simply put by the middle of 2011 I can drive from the Newport Roundabout onto a Motorway and get to Galway in around 75-80 minutes is perfect and worth the €1.80.

thesimpsons

pity it wasn't 1.50e as you could then have a bag of 50c coins and throw them in handy. 1.80 means a collection of different coins - more time wasting. Anyone know if the toll booths are manned or auto or a combination of both.

Berty

The plaza will have manned toll, toll bins and and Tag Scanners.

People, just get a toll tag. THEY ARE FREE!

bazz26

Don't do much business out that side so using the tunnel will be a rarety for me but if I am in a hurry (catch a flight, etc) then I will pay the €1.80, other than that I will continue to take the current route.

Either way the choice is there to use it or not.

Stab*City

bazz26 wrote: »

Don't do much business out that side so using the tunnel will be a rarety for me but if I am in a hurry (catch a flight, etc) then I will pay the €1.80, other than that I will continue to take the current route.

Either way the choice is there to use it or not.

Handy for the airport alright.. usually takes me 19-23 mins depending on hour of day dooradoyle-shannon... so seeing as though i live v near the bypass this side i should be there in 16-19!! yes! For the few times i go to shannon a year and since the airport will be either closing or getting suicide bombed soon due to the DAA/AL queda (:D) it does not make much of a difference if we even have a tunnel to me..

Raiser

I'd prefer to throw by €3.60 into the Shannon on either the outward or return journey than support this cynical effort to further incrementally tax the already ripped-off car-driving population which only benefits and serves to increase the fortunes of what are already super wealthy Business People.....

Bakharwaldog

1.80 seems reasonable to me, if you dont want to use it you dont have to.

When is it due to open?

zuroph

Raiser wrote: »

I'd prefer to throw by €3.60 into the Shannon on either the outward or return journey than support this cynical effort to further incrementally tax the already ripped-off car-driving population which only benefits to increase the fortunes of the what are already super wealthy Business People.....

no1s stopping ya! :pac:

Berty

Raiser wrote: »

I'd prefer to throw by €3.60 into the Shannon on either the outward or return journey than support this cynical effort to further incrementally tax the already ripped-off car-driving population which only benefits to increase the fortunes of the what are already super wealthy Business People.....

Its a privately built road. There is no Tax involved other than VAT. The contractor Direct Route will take the profit for 20 years THEN the government will get it just like the M50.

Berty

c_k_m wrote: »

1.80 seems reasonable to me, if you dont want to use it you dont have to.

When is it due to open?

September apparently. They are ahead of schedule afaik the Nenagh Guardian is concerned.

Raiser

Berty wrote: »

Its a privately built road. There is no Tax involved other than VAT. The contractor Direct Route will take the profit for 20 years THEN the government will get it just like the M50.

Are you sure?

- Had thought it was PPP.......

zuroph

its finished, they're slowing it up due to a lack of follow on jobs. also, the annacotty to nenagh road is done but sinking. should have neneagh to birdhill open soon though.

Berty

Raiser wrote: »

Are you sure?

- Had thought it was PPP.......

PPP Yes but only in consultation. I worked for this company on the Fermoy Motorway Bypass and, rather like the M7, the contractor is responsible for everything only being responsible and reporting to the council and the NRA.

Lagan will then look after the Motorway for the forseable future until the Government get their greasy mits on it.

On Jobs.ie they are even hiring staff for the Tunnel to work in the control room.

Liam Byrne

Berty wrote: »

PPP Yes but only in consultation. I worked for this company on the Fermoy Motorway Bypass and, rather like the M7, the contractor is responsible for everything only being responsible and reporting to the council and the NRA.

Can't imagine it being that simple ?

What about the planning & CPO stages ?
And you're telling us that the state paid absolutely ZERO to date for the project ?

Berty

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Can't imagine it being that simple ?

What about the planning & CPO stages ?
And you're telling us that the state paid absolutely ZERO to date for the project ?

Of course the state have paid money. But it's like getting a grant for your SME. It's not the Governments business, its still yours.

And it's EU money not the state's money.

Here is the info

Direct Route wrote:

Under the PPP Contract, DirectRoute (Fermoy) Ltd is responsible for the financing, design, construction, operation and maintenance of the Fermoy Bypass for the 30 year period of the contract. At the expiry of the contract the bypass will be handed back to the National Roads Authority and Cork County Council.

Toll operations were subcontracted to an experienced toll operator, Eurotoll Limited.

http://www.directroute.ie/directroute/about/ppp-contract/

Freddie59

Liam Byrne wrote: »

I've posted elsewhere about this.

If it was €1 for cars then twice as many would use it.

Plus, all of the .90 and .80 prices are a con.......if you root around for change like that then it'll slow you up, so they're obviously hoping that people will chuck in a €2 coin.

I'll probably use it once out of curiosity, but I'm paying enough in road tax and petrol tax already, and I've no interest in adding €3.60 to the price of a round trip to Ennis.

I have to agree with your sentiments, particularly regarding cost. Same costs apply down here on the new Waterford City bypass, where the new bridge is tolled. Apparently, they need 12,000 vehicles a day to make it "profitable", but only around 4,000 use it, according to reports.

Like everything, make it cheaper and more people will use it. It costs the bones of €20 per week at present if you use it for the return journey to work. €10 per week would be much more acceptable and would drive the numbers up. But, noooooooooooo - they won't entertain it. Simple economics really.

And the €2 coin? Exactly what happens. On any toll.

phog

zuroph wrote: »

its finished, they're slowing it up due to a lack of follow on jobs. also, the annacotty to nenagh road is done but sinking. should have neneagh to birdhill open soon though.

Nenagh to Birdhill opened yesterday



BTW - how is the toll a rip off? No one is forcing you to use the tunnel, there will be exits/entries to and from the motorway at both sides of the tunnel, thoise that stay on motorway know in advance how much it's going to cost - hence no rip off.

Kess73

Berty wrote: »

On Jobs.ie they are even hiring staff for the Tunnel to work in the control room.

You sure it was on jobs.ie? I only ask as I looked and could not see anything.

Bakharwaldog

Freddie59 wrote: »

I have to agree with your sentiments, particularly regarding cost. Same costs apply down here on the new Waterford City bypass, where the new bridge is tolled. Apparently, they need 12,000 vehicles a day to make it "profitable", but only around 4,000 use it, according to reports.

Like everything, make it cheaper and more people will use it. It costs the bones of €20 per week at present if you use it for the return journey to work. €10 per week would be much more acceptable and would drive the numbers up. But, noooooooooooo - they won't entertain it. Simple economics really.

And the €2 coin? Exactly what happens. On any toll.

But if they half the price of the toll, they would need 24,000 a day to make it "profitable"? i doubt reducing the cost is going to get an extra 20,000 people to use it, or even an extra 4,000. Im not familiar with the road myself but are you saying 50% of motorists choose to not use it because its too expensive?

zuroph

tolls aint for you common plebs anyway, its for us busy business types who have places to go and people to see and arent paying them ourselves :pac:

Berty

Kess73 wrote: »

You sure it was on jobs.ie? I only ask as I looked and could not see anything.

It was in last weeks Leader as well.

goingpostal

zuroph wrote: »

its finished, they're slowing it up due to a lack of follow on jobs. also, the annacotty to nenagh road is done but sinking. should have neneagh to birdhill open soon though.

According to todays Irish Times, Nenagh to Birdhill is open as of this weekend.

Berty

goingpostal wrote: »

According to todays Irish Times, Nenagh to Birdhill is open as of this weekend.

Yes it opened yesterday afternoon. The Infrastructure forum nearly had an orgasm when it happened.

Kess73

Berty wrote: »

It was in last weeks Leader as well.

Never got the leader last week


Will try their website in case they have archives.

Freddie59

c_k_m wrote: »

Im not familiar with the road myself but are you saying 50% of motorists choose to not use it because its too expensive?

Precisely. And the old bridge ain't too far away (and it's free).

concussion

zuroph wrote: »

its finished, they're slowing it up due to a lack of follow on jobs. also, the annacotty to nenagh road is done but sinking. should have neneagh to birdhill open soon though.

It's open....16km's mostly at 80 kph.

Edit...didn't see page 3 has this covered. Oh well.

rubensni

phog wrote: »

BTW - how is the toll a rip off?

I was referring to goods vehicles and motorbikes.

If you'd read my OP, you would see my point is that trucks won't use it and all the high prices for commercial vehicles will do is keep the lorries going through town (exactly what a motorway bypass is designed to take off the streets). Ditto motorbikes which won't gain much in time for 90c considering that they never got stuck in traffic in the first place.

phog wrote: »

No one is forcing you to use the tunnel, there will be exits/entries to and from the motorway at both sides of the tunnel, thoise that stay on motorway know in advance how much it's going to cost - hence no rip off.

Just because you advertise the price of something (as is required by law) doesn't mean that something is not, to give the term its everyday meaning, a rip-off.

Karmafaerie

Icky Thump wrote: »

if it takes a load of cares outta the city its worth it. i wont be using it because i have no need to use it. simple as.

I'm all for any project that takes a load of our cares out of the city.:p

Comhrá

I'm all for any project that takes a load of our cares out of the city

Didn't realise people cared about the city:D

jonski

rubensni wrote: »

I was referring to goods vehicles and motorbikes.

If you'd read my OP, you would see my point is that trucks won't use it and all the high prices for commercial vehicles will do is keep the lorries going through town (exactly what a motorway bypass is designed to take off the streets).

Actually Trucks will use it and save money .

I was of the same opinion until I asked my brother who drives an truck and he said of course he will use it . His explanation was that the amount of diesel a truck uses would mean a shortcut through the city and straight onto the motorway would be a huge saving for him .

phog

rubensni wrote: »

I was referring to goods vehicles and motorbikes.

If you'd read my OP, you would see my point is that trucks won't use it and all the high prices for commercial vehicles will do is keep the lorries going through town (exactly what a motorway bypass is designed to take off the streets). Ditto motorbikes which won't gain much in time for 90c considering that they never got stuck in traffic in the first place.



Just because you advertise the price of something (as is required by law) doesn't mean that something is not, to give the term its everyday meaning, a rip-off.

I read your post, I metioned cars but surely it's the same thing, if a truck wants to use the tunnell it can, it knows the cost beforehand if it doesn't the truck can exit before the tunnell, meander around the city and rejoin after the tunnell, how is this a rip off? A rip off to me is where you have no choice and the service provder uses the lack of choice to charge what they want.

For me, I'll use it when it suits, like last night immediately after the game but on a lazy Sunday morning I'll use the Condell Raod and Shannon Bridge, it's simple really.

rubensni

jonski wrote: »

Actually Trucks will use it and save money .

I was of the same opinion until I asked my brother who drives an truck and he said of course he will use it . His explanation was that the amount of diesel a truck uses would mean a shortcut through the city and straight onto the motorway would be a huge saving for him .

I hope you are right jonski, but I've a feeling that the tunnel will only be used by trucks keeping to a very tight schedule. The tunnel will cut approximately 5km off a journey from Raheen to the Airport, which is the same distance as is added to a Journey from Dublin to Newry on the N2/N52 as opposed to the M1 to avoid the toll there. The toll on the M1 is €6.10 for a HGV, a price not much higher than that for the Limerick tunnel, but as I pointed out Slane is filled with trucks going that route to avoid the toll (and it is a much longer journey time-wise to not use the M1 owing to the poorer state of the road and lack of dual-carriageway for most of it).

rubensni

phog wrote: »

I read your post, I metioned cars but surely it's the same thing, if a truck wants to use the tunnell it can, it knows the cost beforehand if it doesn't the truck can exit before the tunnell, meander around the city and rejoin after the tunnell, how is this a rip off? A rip off to me is where you have no choice and the service provder uses the lack of choice to charge what they want.

For me, I'll use it when it suits, like last night immediately after the game but on a lazy Sunday morning I'll use the Condell Raod and Shannon Bridge, it's simple really.

Thanks for reading it, but I think you missed my point, phog. The Dublin port tunnel has been a great success for that city as it has got the HGVs off the streets because it toll-free for trucks and has been matched with the 5-axle ban between the canals. A similar ban cannot be introduced for HGVs in Limerick because, by law, a toll-free alternative route must be provided to compliment all tolled roads. Setting the toll at over €5 will guarantee that a certain amount of trucks will continue to travel through, and pollute our city.

phog

rubensni wrote: »

Thanks for reading it, but I think you missed my point, phog. The Dublin port tunnel has been a great success for that city as it has got the HGVs off the streets because it toll-free for trucks and has been matched with the 5-axle ban between the canals. A similar ban cannot be introduced for HGVs in Limerick because, by law, a toll-free alternative route must be provided to compliment all tolled roads. Setting the toll at over €5 will guarantee that a certain amount of trucks will continue to travel through, and pollute our city.

Using the port tunnel is a bad example because the aim was to get trucks away from the quays. No leaner drivers are allowed use it and peak time tolls for anything other than a truck is €10 now if those rules were to applied in Limerick then your thread title might be more accurate.