Alan Titchmarsh on VIOLENT video games

K.O.Kiki

Rage, etc.

Poor CVG guy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryH2WemACIM

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donmeister

Argh, its crap like this that makes my blood boil. The Video Games guy on the left came across completely coherent, making excellent points with ratings etc. yet the woman in the middle opened her mouth and the crowd goes nuts, its because there all middle aged parents that dont have a clue with a video game (of any genre) entails! If it crowd was a younger audience (18-35,say) we'd see who would get the cheers in that argument.

Besides, I remember playing Revenge of Shinobi when I was 4, you dont see me going into town with ninja stars killing everyone :rolleyes:

Jazzy

bunch of retards

Bubs101

Jazzy wrote: »

bunch of retards

I don't think that's fair. Titchmarsh was just asking questions and fair enough, yer one in the middle was the vintage housewife not having a clue what she was talking about. She said she was anti violence in any form of entertainment yet she'd be the kind of woman who sits down with her book club empathizing with yer man from Crime and Punishment.

The old guy however knew what he was talking about, didn't over react and was rational. It's not like there's no case to be made her. It is a fair point and you have like 3 generations completely disconnected from games and it's alot better to help them understand

sink

typical, unfortunately

fear and ignorance

Mr E

CVG guy fought his corner well, but didn't stand a chance with that panel. They'd already made ther mind up, and weren't going to let a gamer (no matter how articulate) dissuade them from their narrow minded opinions.

speedboatchase

CVG guy did a great job, fair play to him. And Titchmarash was pretty fair, the only aspect of that show to be angry about were the audience (who obviously know nothing about videogames) and the old woman, who was pandering to that audience for applause. Meh, no skin off my nose - this generation will let's be honest, be dead pretty soon

Jazzy

i was actually referring to yer wan and the audience the old guy seemed a bit more rational.

you could tell from the get go that this was set up to look one way though with alan saying that they dont allow children into the cinema to see films with an adult theme but you cant do that with games. REALLY ALAN? DVD's DONT EXIST DO THEY? AND WHEN THE KID GETS HOME WITH THE 18's GAME THEY NORMALLY HIDE THEMSELVES IN A SECRET ROOM WITH A POWER SOURCE, NET CONNECTION, TELLY AND CONSOLE.
such idiocy. wouldnt that be like the easiest way to make sure your kid isnt being exposed to things they shouldnt be? by.. ya know, watching them and taking care of them and stuff?
its all just another defense for crap parents to hide behind. no one takes responsibility for what this sort of thing. no parents take responsibility for their kids going out with knives in that (or this) country. if a child is brought up with little to no moral values I dont think the first thing you look for to blame is Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2. I could imagine psychiatrists saying "So Jonny, tell be about your Xbox 360 and they way it treats you". Isn't it traditional for a psychiatrist to talk about the parents first? isnt this why there is so many classic literature based on this subject all throughout history? Oedipus and so forth? heck, that was written at a time where they thought fire was invented by this guy called Prometheus who stole it from the gods and was punished by going to hell and having his liver pecked out every day by a bird. pretty violent no?

Retr0gamer

The guy from CV&G did really well there I have to say. Yer wan in the middle was what annoyed me. She hasn't a clue about videogames and therefore they scare her. Parents have the power over what their children play and if they want to know more about games they should sit down with their kids and play the games with them to understand them better. I think in these debate programs they really shouldn't allow people on that haven't a clue of the issue. However I'm sure if it was only people with knowledge of the subject then there would be nobody against the argument.

The other two were throwing around unsubstantiated facts. CV&G guys mentioned the Byron report which there was uproar about when it came out because it showed no connection between violent behaviour and games and people couldn't understand how the great evil of are generation couldn't be affecting. The woman in the middle mentions without citation a report that did show a link. However I also saw that the research papers that show no link far out number the papers with a link between games with violent behaviour and that the reports that show no link are in journals with higher impact values.

People bring up that the kids involved in murders and school shootings played videogames. However it would be more difficult to find someone of their age in this generation that didn't play videogames. In fact the guy that carried out the virginia tech massacre was a loner that didn't play videogames and that made the people that knew him think he was weird.

Hercule

Im happy in the knowledge that the "rock music/TV/video games is/are the devil
brigade will all be long dead by the time it comes to actually making a decision on the matter - ignorant aul c***s - havent they seen footloose!..... DONT THEY KNOW HOW IT ENDS!

All young people should make a promise that they when they are old enough they wont deny their children the joys of stabbing a hooker in Virtual Reality grand theft auto

I heard that guy cho who shot up the university was an avid Chris de Burgh fan - BAN THIS SICK FILTH

Kiith

I watched it until the cow started talking. Same old bull**** from people that have no idea what they are talking about.

Amalgam

Parents facilitate the children, it is often the parent having a hissy fit if the staff 'refuse' to supply a game to a child because of the rating.

The filtering out of content should start at the home, alongside ratings.

K.O.Kiki

Just FYI: Julie Peasgood, who is "categorically against violence for entertainment" voice-acted in horror game Martian Gothic.

So there's that.

Mr E

Priceless.

Argument nullified, credibilty crashes and burns.

super_furry

Wait, Alan Titchmarsh? The gardener? Who cares what he has to say? The less said about that evil, lying sack of ****e Kelvin McKenzie, the better. The man is vile scum and I'll be celebrating the day he dies.

Look it's the Daily Mail effect - old people who have no idea about the technology their decrying, shaking their heads and tutting at girls wearing mini-skirts.

Cuddlesworth

Mr E wrote: »

Priceless.

Argument nullified, credibilty crashes and burns.

I don't think doing voice acting over ten years ago for a Z class game is argument over.

ShadowHearth

Mr E wrote: »

CVG guy fought his corner well, but didn't stand a chance with that panel. They'd already made ther mind up, and weren't going to let a gamer (no matter how articulate) dissuade them from their narrow minded opinions.

have to agree, form the first sentence all 3 were just attacking him, shouldnt the host to be neutral alltogether?

i play video games since i was 6. I played fallout2 which was really really violent, killing people,killing children, stealing, robbing, sex, prostitution, drugs and listgoes on.

am i a mass murderer drug dealer pimp now? No i am a chef... Living normal life, have a bunch of good friends, misses that i live together for 5 years...

You know, there are so many young violent people, who go blow steam in the jims and sparring, not by killing people and kicking the living **** out of avarage joe!

Maybe some people blow steam in video games, so they wouldnt take uzi and kill all people in the office they work...

And thats call of duty: modern warfere 2 ya dick in screen, not call of duty 2: modern warfare...

pixelburp

super_furry wrote: »

Wait, Alan Titchmarsh? The gardener? Who cares what he has to say? The less said about that evil, lying sack of ****e Kelvin McKenzie, the better. The man is vile scum and I'll be celebrating the day he dies.

Not wanting to pick on you particularly, but I don't think it's helpful in the case of gamers vs. the mainstream media when gamers talk about celebrating someone dying - just because the occupy the other side of the fence. It's hard enough for gamers to be taken seriously & to make a case for themselves without giving the other side cause to go "aha, see? They are all weirdos and nutjobs, ban this filth".

Oh and without watching the interview - I know it'll just anger up the blood - I can't help notice from the title that the claim is that video games are also sexist. This I most definitely agree with. Even the so-called "mature" titles out there frequently display an almost shocking level of sexism at times. Or at the very least, an adolescent mixture of fantasising & objectifying.

super_furry

pixelburp wrote: »

Not wanting to pick on you particularly, but I don't think it's helpful in the case of gamers vs. the mainstream media when gamers talk about celebrating someone dying - just because the occupy the other side of the fence. It's hard enough for gamers to be taken seriously & to make a case for themselves without giving the other side cause to go "aha, see? They are all weirdos and nutjobs, ban this filth".

My distaste for that c*nt has nothing do with videogames and is down to his time as editor of the Sun and in particular his coverage and lies about the Hillsborough disaster. Quite while he's still being wheeled out to offer his opinion on anything is beyond me.

muppetkiller

Am I the only one who had to google who Alan Titchmarsh was ?

heffomike54

I am 24 years old, have just watched this video and I am so worried now. I have being playing video games since as long as I can remember, played games like Jungle strike, grand theft auto (every version since day one), and metal gear solid. So I am pretty sure I am going to go on a violent streak any day now: :rolleyes:

I have friends, steady job, treated people with respect, so as far as I can see video games don't affected people and how they behave.:)

gooch2k9

Superb point about being part of the narrative of a good story, perfect example being assassins creed 2. Brilliant story.

tman

CVG guy made some perfectly valid points and put them across very articulately, only to be ignored by the pack of baying idiots and their battleaxe leader.
Wish more people would pay attention and realise that age ratings are there for a reason, and parental controls do exist...
Makes me a sad panda:(

Fear Uladh

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

Rage, etc.

Poor CVG guy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryH2WemACIM

Related articles:
RockPaperShotgun
The Sixth Axis (Open letter)

That stupid bitch should stick to making Glade adverts.:mad:

BigEejit

In fairness, by their very nature, daytime chat show audiences are going to be full of middle aged mothers and retired people. I'd say that there is a better than even chance that most of the audience do not even have a PC at home.

The problem is that if there ever was a vote on violent video games that the only people who would get out of bed and bother their arses to do and vote would be those same older people who read sensationalist papers like the daily hate mail etc ....

Its only a matter of time before that paper or one like it comes out with a headline like "boy aged 19 stabs another boy, 4 months after playing a game where you stab people" and the whole lot of that papers readership will believe that it was the games fault. :mad:

Coriolanus

BigEejit wrote: »

The problem is that if there ever was a vote on violent video games that the only people who would get out of bed and bother their arses to do and vote would be those same older people who read sensationalist papers like the daily hate mail etc ....

This is why we should be able to vote via iphone app, email, Steam chat and WoW addon. That'd catch most of our generation I guess!:D

WolfForager

Playing violent videogames doesn't make me an angry person. However while listening to that old bat i found myself hitting the wall with a rolled up newspaper.

Killinator

I love how they didn't even remotely acknowledge CVG guys comments about age ratings, parental controls,
On way too many occasions has a kid come into the store I work in , bring an 18s game to the counter(typically COD:MW2 or GTA4), we tell them we cantbecasue they are underage, they go, grab parent, and parent buys the game after we tell them we coundln't sell it to thir kid becasue its an 18's game, general response: "ar sure its ok".
If the kids werent let play the games by parents it wouldnt be a problem,

And anyone who goes on a rampage generally has a few more problems than being killed/killing in a video game!

Zombrex

The face of the CVG man after Titchmarsh's first question ("But games are in the home?") is priceless, he is going in his head what sort of dumb as question is that

Orim

Alan Titchmarsh - "But they have certificates on them so children under eighteen can't get in"
Tim Ingham - "Video games have exactly the same certificates..."
AT - "But they're at home"
TI - "..From PBFC(?). I'm sorry?"
AT - "Well you can't stop children getting in, to a house and putting a video on. You can stop them going into a cinema."

I couldn't continue watching after I heard this. The drivel that some people try to pass off as a legitimate argument is unbelievable.

L31mr0d

Selling M rated video games to children and their parents allowing them to play them doesn't seem to be an issue for that panel.

In other news, shock revelation that a minor has been sold a goldfish... the perpetrators of this crime have been convicted and punished

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1262250/Great-grandmother-tagged-selling-goldfish.html

Kevster

I think that a lot of you don't understand this debate either, but neither do the people in that YouTube video. Violent video-games are fine for people like you and I because - in a nutshell - we have sense. To put this in another way: Violent games don't create killers or cause violent behaviour.

However, what they do is give people who are already unstable/lacking in sense new ideas. So, if you are already a jerk who is violent, playing a game might just give you new ways to carry out your violence. In some cases, the methods you learn will be better than the ones you had already been using, and therein lies the issue.

However, these people who are anti violent video-games must surely be anti violent movies. Oh wait, actually, they're just hypocrites and stupid assholes.

Kevin

pwd

I know a guy who thinks he is a military genius. He thinks this because he considers himself good at age of empires.
He applied to do a cadetship. He is short, very unassertive, a bit chubby. He dismissed any suggestion that he got involved in sports or exercised. He fully expected to walk the interviews.
Obviously he didn't get past the screening interview. He was genuinely shocked at this.

I find I get urges to hide and jump out at people to give them frights when I play games like l4d a lot.
I also tend to be more positive about cooperating with people, and teamwork.
I never get any urge to blast them with a shotgun or try to tear them to shreds though.

A lot of skangers try to emulate the gangsta mentality as portrayed in some rap music and movies.
They don't emulate street fighter or counter strike though.

Paparazzo

They're not going to be banned, way too much money to be made. MW2 has made €1billion!

Jazzy wrote: »

wouldnt that be like the easiest way to make sure your kid isnt being exposed to things they shouldnt be? by.. ya know, watching them and taking care of them and stuff?
its all just another defense for crap parents to hide behind. no one takes responsibility for what this sort of thing. no parents take responsibility for their kids going out with knives in that (or this) country.

Bang on, any time groups like this want something "banned", responsible parenting would be th better solution. If your 12 year old child is able to lock himself in a room and play an 18's game, the game isn't the problem, its the parent.

Kevster

Unless Jazzy is a parent him- her-self (and you too, Paparazzo), you shouldn't pass judgement on the way other parents raise their children.

Orim

Kevster wrote: »

Unless Jazzy is a parent him- her-self (and you too, Paparazzo), you shouldn't pass judgement on the way other parents raise their children.

Whether you are a parent or not, you can pass judgement on bad parenting when it rears it's ugly head.

For example a parent that buys an 18 rated video game for a 12 year old is a bad parent. I do not need to be a parent myself to decide this.

SeantheMan

Stick to gardening ye twat !

Stopped watchin as soon as that pompous bitch opened her mouth

SeantheMan

pwd wrote: »

I know a guy who thinks he is a military genius. He thinks this because he considers himself good at age of empires.
He applied to do a cadetship. He is short, very unassertive, a bit chubby

He is obviously the moden day Napoleon !!

dr gonzo

Im sick and tired of video games being seen as the sole domain of children. They've forged for themselves an art form of their own, they're just as legitimate a form of entertainment(mature or otherwise) as any other and im tired of hearing idiots spouting on about violent video games as if they're only made for kids. Like your man said while doing an excellent job holding his own against that onslaught, they have ratings for a reason.

Case in point Mass Effect 2 - as cinematic and adult a game as you'll find.

Coriolanus

Killinator wrote: »

On way too many occasions has a kid come into the store I work in , bring an 18s game to the counter(typically COD:MW2 or GTA4), we tell them we cantbecasue they are underage, they go, grab parent, and parent buys the game after we tell them we coundln't sell it to thir kid becasue its an 18's game, general response: "ar sure its ok".
If the kids werent let play the games by parents it wouldnt be a problem.

Intoxicating Liquors Act wrote:

It is an offence to buy alcohol for people under the age of 18.

I think something like that should be brought in. IF the staff of a games shop have a reasonable suspicion that the game is going to be given to a minor, they can refuse to sell it.
Unless things do get tougher, the industry will always be acussed of being soft on underage gaming.

Skerries

please say thats an April Fools!?

L31mr0d wrote: »

In other news, shock revelation that a minor has been sold a goldfish... the perpetrators of this crime have been convicted and punished

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1262250/Great-grandmother-tagged-selling-goldfish.html

Skerries

Orim wrote: »

Whether you are a parent or not, you can pass judgement on bad parenting when it rears it's ugly head.

For example a parent that buys an 18 rated video game for a 12 year old is a bad parent. I do not need to be a parent myself to decide this.

they are not bad parents they are just ignorant of how violent games can be

GothPunk

The shining light through all this is the fact that the UK government is increasingly becoming more pro-gaming. Sure they're only really interested in the money the games industry rakes in but all three major political parties in the UK are in favour of measures that benefit the games industry. I didn't make it through the whole video but did they mention the fact that their government is pro-gaming? Chancellor Alistair Darling only announced a while ago that they're introducing tax breaks for developers.

I thought videogames were pretty mainstream now, surely there's something more novel to be afraid of?

OctavarIan

Why are people sending complaints and petitioning over this, it's embarrassing. While I agree that the woman in the middle was a total nonce, there was nothing unfair, illegal or offensive in that video which would warrant a complaint. Immature, uneducated and kneejerk reaction by the petitioners.

I do think with the proximity to the BAFTAs though that they could have chosen a more positive or insightful topic, this one was lazy TV and has been driven to death but hey it's what their audience want.

In the end why do any of you really care what the older generation of housewives think? When you're sitting at home playing SFIV online are you really worrying about the social acceptance of what you're doing among people maybe 10, 15 years your senior?

petes

Skerries wrote: »

they are not bad parents they are just ignorant of how violent games can be

Of course they are. The rating is there for a reason. As the bloke from CVG said. Same as DVD's. If anything they should read up on what exactly an 18 cert entails.

I was watching that and knew that bint was going to come out with the airport level in MW.

mrm

Skerries wrote: »

they are not bad parents they are just ignorant of how violent games can be

Ok not bed parents, but they definitely exercise some bad parenting practices. They cannot claim ignorance of games as any defence if they allow their children access to unsuitable rated games. For example, there was a woman on Joe Duffy on release day of MW2 (show podcast posted on Boards.ie- all about that mild airport stage) who described a profile of her 16 year old son that was clearly unsuitable for online war games (due to bullying - her explanation). She only saw the game as the problem - not her sons unsuitability to gaming nor her bad parenting for giving him the game; she said she gave him the game to make up for the bullying incident. This has nothing to do with game violence, game ratings or ignorance of gaming or even airports - this is simply bad parenting. Unfortunately in todays world a lot societies perceived ills are used to cover for bad parent.

@OctavarIan - yes, yes I do. When I am playing a game I am constantly considering what an 'older generation' person would think of it. And if I think that my father (all 74 years of him) would like it I give him the game after I am finished. He generally likes them! Well that truely blows your argument completely out of the water!:D

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Mr E wrote: »

Priceless.

Argument nullified, credibilty crashes and burns.

Have you ever changed your stance on anything in the past? Have you ever considered changing your mind on something?

Orim wrote: »

Whether you are a parent or not, you can pass judgement on bad parenting when it rears it's ugly head.

For example a parent that buys an 18 rated video game for a 12 year old is a bad parent. I do not need to be a parent myself to decide this.

There is a difference between bad parenting and a parent making a bad choice. You have judged a parent, who has nurtured and cared for that kid for 12 years, plus another 9 months through pregnancy, based on one action?



Firstly I want to say that I love violent video games. I long for the game which implements the soldier of fortune physics and the graphics of modern warfare. I want limbs to get blown off, I want to be able to shoot somebodies head off, I want realism and I don't want some fake artistic view of how somebody might look like if they get shot with an ak47.

I have some weapon experience, and I know what damage a bullet does. If a person is shot with the barrett .50 cal sniper rifle, or the .50 cal machine gun, they don't prance around holding their wounds gasping for air. They are going to get serious critical wounds. The energy behind those bullets will completely destroy your body. the 5.56mm nato round is more accurate in games these days, but they use the similar damage effects with all bullets. The 7.62 (ak47, gpgm, other light machine gun rounds) is a very powerfull round too. I wish games would reflect this and not censor the damage from these weapons. I think by doing this people think that getting shot with an ak47 or the likes is not so bad, when in fact this is going to put large holes in you. I have seen the effects of certain bullets on flesh, unfortunately. I don't think that is going to happen though, unfortunately.

Now, saying this I am going to be in the minority, but I am not plucking what I say out of thin air, like some of you are. We all love video games, if you seen my collection you would think I am a video game freak, I am. I have studied psychology in past years, I really enjoyed it too and what I can say is that we are influenced by our surroundings and experience. There are no studies yet to say that video games are or are not linked to violence, but what I have learned in the past is that we are influenced by everything.

Do computer games make you kill people? No, that's just fcuking stupid. They don't actually make you kill people. There have been cases of people re-enacting game scenes and killing people, but those people are nutjobs. We have all heard the arguement "I play gta4 but I don't rob cars and I don't shoot hookers to get my money back"... but that's not the claim. The claim is that "video games make you are more violent person" which I believe to be true. Now each person is different, what might effect you may not effect the man sitting next to you. Also, what effects you a lot, may effect him only a little. This is a pretty difficult arguement for both sides, but we must look at the science of it. Also, I would disregard any study taken on directly by either side. I would be more interested in independant studies. Those that are not funded by the games industry, or lobbied by distrought parents.

Games introduce (real or not) a level of violence which we would not be exposed to on such a large scale if games did not exist. This claim should not only look at video games, but TV (films, shows etc etc) and books (magazines, pictures etc etc). The level of violence in these can be different, and although the likes of books are not pixelated, they can be extremely graphic. We as humans, are not used to being exposed this much to violence. You must also factor in the level of realism (which I want more of), how long you are exposed to that medium is also important. A film is approximately 90 minutes long. That film may be watched again and again, but the level of stickiness is nothing compared to some computer games. We have all played games for hours on end. Some of us have played for as long as 8 hours a day, every day of the week. Games are much more addictive than any other medium out there. With the introduction of achievements and weapon upgrades the stickiness level has increased dramatically.

If we take a look at violence in the home, would people agree that the child has a tendancy to become a more violent person? While this exposure is at a completely different level (much more influence) to that of media (games, films, books), media may still have an effect on you. It is different for each person as we all have different personalities. Violence in the home may not effect some people, and it may dramatically effect others.

Nobody, and I mean nobody can say that video games do or do not cause violence as there is yet to be an unbiased professional proper study performed (from what I know), but from what I have studied in the past I can say that your surroundings and what you are exposed to, can have serious influences on you.

I'm ready to be flamed now, thanks

noodler

She was an utter disgrace - absolutely no degree of research done on her part and she was just there to shout generalities at the cvg guy to try and garner applause.

I didn't even know you could parental lock a PS3 etc so what the hell is the problem?

If some massmurder had watched alot of horror movies in his life, would we argue they cause him to be as such? The causality issues witht he Bolger point are quite apparent.

Mr E

Jason Thoughtless Knickknack wrote: »

I'm ready to be flamed now, thanks

Well argued, Julie.

Better than the "OMG Airport! Guns! Shoot! Innocent people! Rah rah... clap for meeeeee" crap in the video.

WhiskeyGoblin

Right, so from this we can safely say, that woman has heard of the violence in MW and is basing the whole gaming industry on it.......Right and the guy on the left was right, theres censorship for a reason, not his fault or a games fault if a parent buys it for them, and guy on the right, argued his point well , so basically to that woman , stick to what you know and stay the **** out of what you don't

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Mr E wrote: »

Well argued, Julie.

Better than the "OMG Airport! Guns! Shoot! Innocent people! Rah rah... clap for meeeeee" crap in the video.

There are extremists in every walk of life