wesite files am i entitled to them????

littlemiss00

H I need some advice!!!

I had a website designed last year and a domain registered with same company he gave me no training on how to use the website as promised when we done the deal for after care sales.


I refused to pay this years hosting and so he suspended the website, until i pay this money.

Does this mean i now have to find someone else to design another website for me, i thought once i got this website designed it belonged to me.

What is the case and how do i approach this situation as i am loosing business for the last 8 months.

Thanks

walshkvn

Did you have any sort of contract/agreement with this guy/company? Anything written down?

How long has the money been due since?

Normally I would expect that the website is yours if you paid the initial agreement in full .. web design & hosting.

I presume you have asked for the files?

littlemiss00

no i don't think a contract was put in place it was a cash deal silly me however i do have invoices billing me for the website and design from his company.


He designed the website and hosted it up until July last year i paid him €2,500 altogether for the whole lot including the domain.

He now wants me to pay €130.00 to him from July to July this year.

I won@t pay this as the website he gave me i can<t use and every time i even want a picture changing on the front of the site he charges me €90.00 every time i want something doing.

littlemiss00

can i just add that i have found a company that will host it but the impression i am getting is that they cannot do anything until i pay him his money and he put,s it live again.

Please bear with me because i am not up to speed with computers and get a litlte confused.

I just want my website that i paid for.

nellyshark

I have come across situations before, mainly read on other forums mind, where, depending on the terms of the hosting, that, while your website was live and within the invoice dates, that you own the website and should have backed up the files, but after an invoice has been failed to have been paid, the hosting provider is entitled to terminate/suspend the hosting plan including said files. In short, if you have a backup of website files, you do indeed own them, but if you don't, the hosting provider is entitled to be doing what he is doing. Hope that makes sense. Unfortunately I cant remember where I saw that.

I am guessing by your posts that the design was a static custom design?

littlemiss00

how would i have saved the files would he not have had to send them to me????

Also what is a static design??? sorry:P

Eoin

littlemiss00 - a static site means a website that is not connected to a backend system like a Content Management System or an eCommerce system etc.

This is a tricky one - I don't know if you implicitly own the copyright when someone designs a website for you. It might have to be specifically signed over to you. He is quite entitled to turn off your site as you have not paid for the hosting. However, you should ask him to email you the files and see what his response is.

If he does send you the files, then you should see if you can get the design integrated into a content management system that will allow you to update the content yourself. Personally I think that should have been included in a €2,500 website. Could you change any of the content yourself, or were you totally reliant on him? Anyway, that's step 2 - you need to get the files first!

mneylon

Is the domain a .com or a .ie?

If the domain is a .ie it should be registered in your name, so you should be able to move it.

If the domain is a .com it is possible that it isn't registered with your details, so the designer / developer effectively has full control over it

With regard to the website design etc., - the rights to it would have been (or should have been) established when you organised it with the designer / developer you hired.

cormee

littlemiss00 wrote: »

H I need some advice!!!

I had a website designed last year and a domain registered with same company he gave me no training on how to use the website as promised when we done the deal for after care sales.


I refused to pay this years hosting and so he suspended the website, until i pay this money.

Does this mean i now have to find someone else to design another website for me, i thought once i got this website designed it belonged to me.

What is the case and how do i approach this situation as i am loosing business for the last 8 months.

Thanks

The site/design does belong to you which is why it's your responsibility to have a copy of it, not your designer's. You've had the site over a year now so you've had ample opportunity to get a backup but unfortunately you never did.

Your designer is entitled to be uncooperative after the business relationship has broken down, as are you. You decided you weren't going to pay your hosting fees - what did you expect would happen? Obviously your designer would suspend your hosting, you must have realised that in advance but took no steps to get a copy of the site. There is no one at fault here apart from yourself.

Do yourself and your designer a favour, pay the hosting fees, download the files and find a new designer/host. It's only going to cost you €130 compared to the price of a new site.

The site design should belong to you - I've seen contracts where the designer retains copyright to the design. Unusual but not unprecedented. Have you asked for the website files (and database if applicable)?

This posting is very similar to
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055867394
including situation, pricing and :mad: emote

Pixelcraft

I'm amazed at some of the responses here, unless otherwise signed over, copyright remains with the creator, which is one of many reasons why contracts are vital. You don't necessarily need copyright though, it could have been licensed for you to use exclusively.

cormee

Pixelcraft wrote: »

I'm amazed at some of the responses here, unless otherwise signed over, copyright remains with the creator, which is one of many reasons why contracts are vital. You don't necessarily need copyright though, it could have been licensed for you to use exclusively.

This isn't correct - contracts can be implied. A handshake can imply contract. Every case is different.

Pixelcraft

This is correct. A handshake isn't a contract.

cormee

Pixelcraft wrote: »

This is correct. A handshake isn't a contract.

A written contract is known as an expressed contract, a handshake can be an implied contract. It's up to a court to decide if a handshake constitutes an implied contract but you are incorrect is simply saying it's not a contract.

Morlar

If you paid in full then you should ask the designer for a copy of what you paid for on disk. Then setup a hosting contract with a reputable company. €130 could get you 3 yrs small business site hosting or thereabouts (assuming this is not a very busy site which by the sounds of it it isnt).

If the designer is not simply trying to screw you they will forward a disk of the static web design content you paid for and they will incur no additional costs in doing that.

Pixelcraft

Are you meant to utter the words 'i'm giving you copyright' as you shake hands? A handshake won't stand up, and is worthless.

mneylon

cormee wrote: »

A written contract is known as an expressed contract, a handshake can be an implied contract. It's up to a court to decide if a handshake constitutes an implied contract but you are incorrect is simply saying it's not a contract.

An implied contract to do X is very different to a contract specifying the details such as IP rights etc.,

cormee

Pixelcraft wrote: »

Are you meant to utter the words 'i'm giving you copyright' as you shake hands? A handshake won't stand up, and is worthless.

If copyright and payment are discussed in relation to each other it can very easily be considered an implied contract yes.

Pixelcraft

shocked that some people in this business consider a handshake an adequate contract, seriously you're doing yourself and your clients a disservice.

littlemiss00

Thanks for all the response!!!!

How does this sound???

I pay him what is owed he is going to send me the files of the website on cd.

so does this mean i can then get this website hosted by someone else if so what next do i have to do.

I wish i didn't have the the whole website now tbh:)

Pixelcraft

Yes seems like the best option, don't even mention copyright in that case as it's not a concern

Eoin

That sounds fair enough. You'll have to sort out how to update content from now on though.

cormee

Pixelcraft wrote: »

shocked that some people in this business consider a handshake an adequate contract, seriously you're doing yourself and your clients a disservice.

You may need to talk to your solicitor about it so. A written/expressed contract is different from an implied contract in that it is material evidence of the contract having taken place, an oral agreement (such as a handshake) can constitute a binding legal implied contract.

cormee

Yes Littlemis00 - that's definitely your best option.

Pixelcraft - have a read of this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contract

"As long as the good or service provided is legal, any oral agreement between two parties can constitute a binding legal contract. The practical limitation to this, however, is that only parties to a written agreement have material evidence (the written contract itself) to prove the actual terms uttered at the time the agreement was struck. In daily life, most contracts can be and are made orally, such as purchasing a book or a sandwich. Sometimes written contracts are required by either the parties, or by statutory law within various jurisdiction for certain types of agreement, for example when buying a house[3] or land."

The article is based upon common/British law so it is relevant to Irish law.

cormee

Blacknight wrote: »

An implied contract to do X is very different to a contract specifying the details such as IP rights etc.,

Not trying to be smart but:

An implied contract to do x is an implied contract to do x

An implied contract specifying the details such as IP rights etc. is an implied contract specifying the details such as IP rights etc.

Both are implied contracts. If both parties are in agreement on the matter it can be considered a legally binding contract. Proving the specific details of a more complex agreement subject to an implied contract would be a hell of a lot more difficult which is why an expressed contract would be preferable, but that doesn't make the implied contract any less binding.

professore

If there is nothing on paper it's your word against theirs. Anyway is irrelevant unless you are considering suing them - in which case sue them for many thousands as otherwise it is much cheaper to pay the 130, tell everyone you know how you've been shafted and move on.

cormee

professore wrote: »

If there is nothing on paper it's your word against theirs.

Not necessarily true, for example evidence of benefits could imply contract, where the benefit is not considered a gift. ie. I give you a cow, you have the cow, it wasn't a gift so that could imply a contract.

Pixelcraft

cormee wrote: »

You may need to talk to your solicitor about it so. A written/expressed contract is different from an implied contract in that it is material evidence of the contract having taken place, an oral agreement (such as a handshake) can constitute a binding legal implied contract.

Sounds like an excellent way to define IP rights :rolleyes:

cormee

Pixelcraft wrote: »

Sounds like an excellent way to define IP rights :rolleyes:

This discussion hasn't been about best practice. I was addressing your belief a handshake can't constitute a contract:

" This is correct. A handshake isn't a contract."

Obviously a written contract is better, but it's not the be-all and end-all when it comes to your legal rights.

nellyshark

And a backup of the database if one exists OP

aidan_walsh

Guys, lets leave the legalities of what is and isn't a contract between the OP, the designer and a lawyer if necessary.

Placebo

A- You cant expect him to pay for another year of hosting for you, unless this was agreed at the start. He should have given you the hosting details or signed up under your name so you should be responsible for renewal [what if he was to leave the country? etc]

B- 2,500 for a static website with no CMS[capability for you to change content] is ridiculous


best solution, pay for the renewal, get all details of the hosting, change them to your own name, get a new designer who wont charge you 90 per change

Eoin

Placebo wrote: »

A- You cant expect him to pay for another year of hosting for you, unless this was agreed at the start. He should have given you the hosting details or signed up under your name so you should be responsible for renewal [what if he was to leave the country? etc]

B- 2,500 for a static website with no CMS[capability for you to change content] is ridiculous


best solution, pay for the renewal, get all details of the hosting, change them to your own name, get a new designer who wont charge you 90 per change

Until you see the website (I haven't either by the way), it's impossible for you to say what is too expensive. For all we know, the design might not lend itself too well to a CMS. If an image on the homepage is integrated into the design, then it could well take a bit of work to change.

Maybe the designer is taking the piss - but we really can't make that call based on what the details in this thread.

Agree with your other suggestions though.

Placebo

Im just taking an assumption thats not for a company and probably just an entrepreneur at best, so price seems quite high. But of course, depends.

walshkvn

I really hope it more than a static website, (i.e. a website that doesn't do anymore than provide text and pictures that are not based on vistor reaction).

If it all goes tits up with the last designer, someone to check out would be http://www.24.ie ... a static website for 295 euro plus vat.

By the way I'm in no way involved with these guys.

But I think the best idea is to pay the 130 euro and then get someone else to host it and they will copy the design over for you. Remember to ask for a copy of website as soon as they do.

dysfunktional

you should of got a copy of the files when you paid for it, oral contracts aint worth the paper there written on!