Why do Republicans dislike Obamacare so much?

Valmont

It seems that many Republicans are vociferously against Obama's health care reform bill. Today in the Irish Times I read that even Mitt Romney has spoken out against the bill even though he passed similar legislation one or two years ago. I know they have a gripe with the extra funds being pumped into this program given the global economic situation but I thought the idea was that this bill would reduce costs in the long run? Anyway, if you could point me towards some good factual articles on the bill or explain why the Republicans are so opposed to it, beyond the fundamental ideological clash (the role of government) between the two parties, I would be thankful.

I guess I'm confused because I'm hearing spin from one side that this bill is the greatest democratic achievement in recent years and will reap untold benefits for American citizens and then the other side is heralding it as the beginning of the end. Is the truth is somewhere in the middle?

Overheal

Valmont wrote: »

It seems that many Republicans are vociferously against Obama's health care reform bill. Today in the Irish Times I read that even Mitt Romney has spoken out against the bill even though he passed similar legislation one or two years ago. I know they have a gripe with the extra funds being pumped into this program given the global economic situation but I thought the idea was that this bill would reduce costs in the long run? Anyway, if you could point me towards some good factual articles on the bill or explain why the Republicans are so opposed to it, beyond the fundamental ideological clash (the role of government) between the two parties, I would be thankful.

I guess I'm confused because I'm hearing spin from one side that this bill is the greatest democratic achievement in recent years and will reap untold benefits for American citizens and then the other side is heralding it as the beginning of the end. Is the truth is somewhere in the middle?

GOP Opposition, explained

rovert

Misinformation and that the black man won for the most part.

rightwingdub

I do believe that the more Moderate Republicans should have stepped up to the plate and be willing to compromise with Obama, as David Frum a former speechwriter to Bush JR said the passing of the health care legislation is a disaster for Republicans. He said that the Reps should have been willing to compromise with Obama.

The Moderate Republicans should have come out in favour of:

1) Providing health insurance to people with pre existing conditions.
2) Compulsory health insurance in cases of catostrophic illness ie cancer or cardiac arrest.


I do believe that Obama should have taken on board a Republican proposal that healthcare insurance companies be allowed to cross state lines, that would have improved competition and reduced the cost of health insurance.

Valmont

Overheal, thanks for taking the time to provide the link but it doesn't really explain anything! One representative calling the Republican party a wholly owned subsidiary of the insurance industry isn't really the sort of thing that precludes a factual discussion on the issue; unless I missed the point?

Overheal

The truth is theres no clear and present explaination as to why they vehemently oppose the health care proposals.

The truth is they've proposed several different solutions; but when those solutions have been placed on the table, they have voted against them.

Again, their oppossition seems to be for no other reason than to opposse to the Majority to win favor with the voters who have been introduced to panic and fear - wait for it - by the GOP.

rightwingdub

I do believe that the healthcare legislation is going to place a huge burden on future taxpayers in terms of having to pay higher taxes.

Black Swan

See Georgetown University's health care reform page and links http://ccf.georgetown.edu/index/health-care-reform-legislative-proposals

Carcharodon

A quick answer to the thread title would be because he is black, that in my opinion is what it basically boils down to with a lot of other issues thrown into the mix.

In my opinion Obama set out to genuinely try and fix health care and help the American people. He then had to deal with this outrageous opposition that came from lobbyists and obviously the extremists that flat out want Obama to fail at everything, this is all muddled together a long with lots of other stuff. It is just no no no to anything he says no matter what.
Peoples fears have been exploited and their lack of knowledge of not only health care but the world in general have left them open to be easily manipulated by the mainstream media such as Fox News and idiots like Limbaugh, Beck and Palin.
Then there is the Christians that have gotten on board and jumped on the bandwagon, mix everyone together and you have one Lucky Bag of lunatics.
This has left America with a water downed bill that could of been so much better for America if Obama just gave the finger to the GOP from the get go.

There is a real lack of education among "middle america" and the people on the coasts are too busy to care.
It is mind blowing sometimes to read some of the rhetoric coming form the right, hard to believe that people have such messed up views.

Lack of respect for Obama is shocking, shouting at him in congress, that interviewer that constantly interrupted him, being compared to dictators in the media etc.
For me, so much of it is racism, America is filled with racism that is deeply embedded in society and people are still not ready for this n****r to tell them what to do. It is a sad state of affairs.

20Cent

I think its the race thing to.
There was never this much vitriol against any other President.
Where were these teabaggers when Bush drove up the deficit, when the patriot act was brought in, when two wars were started, nowhere, they were probably supporting them.

Amerika

Here, this might help. Then again, it’s got to be false, because as a republican Bobby must be some big old racist. :rolleyes:
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2010/03/23/bobby_jindal_health_care_bill_bad_for_our_country.html

20Cent

Amerika wrote: »

Here, this might help. Then again, it’s got to be false, because as a republican Bobby must be some big old racist. :rolleyes:
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2010/03/23/bobby_jindal_health_care_bill_bad_for_our_country.html

Explains his objections, not the teabaggers.

Amerika

The question was regarding “republicans.”

Does anyone know why the offensive term “teabaggers,” in regard to the Tea Party, is allowed to be continually be used in the forum?

20Cent

Amerika wrote: »

The question was regarding “republicans.”

Does anyone know why the mods allow the offensive term “teabaggers,” in regard to the Tea Party, to be continually be used in the forum?

A totally nice sex act has been hijacked by a minority and made into something disgusting.

Overheal

"As I listen to Health Care opponents talking about Rising Up and Revolution - I guess my one thought is 'Bring it on, lets f@#king do this.' I'm kinda sick of their sh*t: we have guns, too."

-Wyatt Cenac

I also liked the O'Reilly interview with Glenn Beck: "Oh, stop it with the Germany already!"

Carcharodon

Amerika wrote: »

Here, this might help. Then again, it’s got to be false, because as a republican Bobby must be some big old racist. :rolleyes:
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2010/03/23/bobby_jindal_health_care_bill_bad_for_our_country.html

Bobby Jindal....the rising star of the Republican party ! Ha, give me a break, this guy such an idiot and full of crap. He can regurgitate all the figures he wants and as quickly as he wants but it doesn't make it true.
I have seen enough of his speeches to know what a joke he is.
Racism is a major factor and obviously you have the hardcore brainwashed right mixed in too.

Jindal is your typical religious Republican, pro life, opposed to same sex marriage, opposed to reforming immigration although his parents where immigrants.
Just another puppet.

Overheal

Carcharodon wrote: »

Bobby Jindal....the rising star of the Republican party ! Ha, give me a break, this guy such an idiot and full of crap. He can regurgitate all the figures he wants and as quickly as he wants but it doesn't make it true.
I have seen enough of his speeches to know what a joke he is.

All of this is useless rubbish and doesn't actually constitute a Debate.

Can you prove his figures are falsified?

Racism is a major factor and obviously you have the hardcore brainwashed right mixed in too.

Can you source some material which might suggest that Jindal is a racist?

Jindal is your typical religious Republican, pro life, opposed to same sex marriage,

Yep. And? Those are just positions on a sensitive issue. It doesnt conclude the intelligence of the person. Im Pro-Choice: It doesnt make everyone who is Pro-Life an Idiot.

opposed to reforming immigration although his parents where immigrants.
Just another puppet.

I think thats misleading.

From wikipedia, pulled at time of reading your post:

As a son of immigrants, Jindal has stated that legal immigration brings many benefits to the United States. He has, however, criticized illegal immigration as a drain on the economy, as well as being unfair to those who entered the country by legal means. He has voted to build a fence along the Mexican border and opposes granting amnesty for illegal aliens.[88][100]

To say he opposes Immigration reform is a distortion.

Carcharodon

Overheal wrote: »

All of this is useless rubbish and doesn't actually constitute a Debate.

Can you prove his figures are falsified?

I am only giving my opinion on a politician that I feel is some what of a joke.

Of course I cannot prove his figures are falsified and I never said they were, I am saying that just because someone throws out these figures doesn't make it fact. I am sure someone on the opposing side could counteract with figures of their own.
The simple fact is that both sides cannot give accurate figures on something that hasn't happened.

Overheal wrote: »

Can you source some material which might suggest that Jindal is a racist?
Yep. And? Those are just positions on a sensitive issue. It doesnt conclude the intelligence of the person. Im Pro-Choice: It doesnt make everyone who is Pro-Life an Idiot.
I think thats misleading.

From wikipedia, pulled at time of reading your post:

As a son of immigrants, Jindal has stated that legal immigration brings many benefits to the United States. He has, however, criticized illegal immigration as a drain on the economy, as well as being unfair to those who entered the country by legal means. He has voted to build a fence along the Mexican border and opposes granting amnesty for illegal aliens.[88][100]

To say he opposes Immigration reform is a distortion.

I never said he was a racist, maybe I wasn't clear, I believe there is an extreme amount of racism against Obama from certain sections, then there are the people like Jindal that are just plain and simple loyal servants to the Republican party that go along with this opposition to everything Obama does.

I didn't say he was an idiot for supporting these "sensitive" issues, he is a puppet.

And from you found on wiki, he voted against an amnesty and believes illegal immigrants are a drain on America. His solution to this is to build a fence........, he really seems to have a grasp on immigration.

Overheal

Carcharodon wrote: »

Of course I cannot prove his figures are falsified and I never said they were

"He can regurgitate all the figures he wants and as quickly as he wants but it doesn't make it true."

I never said he was a racist, maybe I wasn't clear, I believe there is an extreme amount of racism against Obama from certain sections, then there are the people like Jindal that are just plain and simple loyal servants to the Republican party that go along with this opposition to everything Obama does.

Honestly I havent heard the race card played in a long time. Obviously a big button topic after his inaguration, but im pretty sure we're past that. And considering we're talking about Jindal - I doubt its because the President is Black.

And from you found on wiki, he voted against an amnesty and believes illegal immigrants are a drain on America. His solution to this is to build a fence........, he really seems to have a grasp on immigration.

It just says he supported building up the Border. It doesnt say his all encompassing solution to Illegal Immigration is a big fence.

Carcharodon

Overheal wrote: »

"He can regurgitate all the figures he wants and as quickly as he wants but it doesn't make it true."

Yes, I stand by that, to say that I think figures are falsified implies they are knowingly putting out false figures. This could be argued by some but I am not saying that, all I am saying is that how can these figures be proven to be accurate. As I said, the other side is also able to throw out a bunch of numbers and such to prove their case. Time will be the judge.

Overheal wrote: »

Honestly I havent heard the race card played in a long time. Obviously a big button topic after his inaguration, but im pretty sure we're past that. And considering we're talking about Jindal - I doubt its because the President is Black.

It just says he supported building up the Border. It doesnt say his all encompassing solution to Illegal Immigration is a big fence.

Define a long time ? The race card is still a major issue of contention and has been highlighted numerous times in recent months. It is obviously a topic that people want play down for obvious reasons but it is still an underlying problem in America.

I would love to know Jindals solution to immigration, I am sure it is very constructive.

Overheal

He doesnt seem to really be campaigning on the immigration platform. But from what I gather he recognizes the benefits of legal immigration, and has supported the motion to upgrade the mexican border. Its not really enough to draw any conclusion.

edit: http://www.ontheissues.org/House/Bobby_Jindal.htm

* Voted YES on building a fence along the Mexican border. (Sep 2006)
* Voted YES on preventing tipping off Mexicans about Minuteman Project. (Jun 2006)
* Rated 100% by USBC, indicating a sealed-border stance. (Dec 2006)
* Government services in English only. (Mar 2008)
* Declare English as the official language of the US. (Feb 2007)

http://www.ontheissues.org/House/Bobby_Jindal_Immigration.htm more there

kev9100

Carcharodon wrote: »

A quick answer to the thread title would be because he is black, that in my opinion is what it basically boils down to with a lot of other issues thrown into the mix.

A couple of years ago I would have agreed but fortunately the country has moved on. Sure, there is a very vocal minority that oppose Obama simply because he's black but they are steadily decreasing.

I think that the main reason GOP opposes Obama is that they came to the conclusion that the quickest way to returning to power was ratcheting up the retoric and keeping the base happy. Once you call your President a "socialist" you can't exactly negotiate with him.

Overheal

Yeah they aren't helping themselves out of that corner though either.

March 20, 2010 | 3:14 PM ET
Boehner: It's "Armageddon," Health Care Bill Will "Ruin our Country"

The next 24 hours are "armageddon" because the health care bill proposed by Democrats will "ruin our country," House Minority Leader John Boehner said Saturday, a day before a crucial vote on the bill in the House.

Boehner made the charge first to the GOP caucus meeting where leaders were trying to rally lawmakers to keep fighting to get more "no" votes from wavering Democrats.

A raucous crowd of citizens surrounded the leader at a press conference chanting, "kill the bill!"

House Republican Conference Chairman Mike Pence of Indiana also said that the House of Representatives is not "the president's House...or the speaker's House...this is the people's House."

The comments pay homage to newly elected Senator Scott Brown, R-MA, who now famously said at a debate that he was not running for former Senator Ted Kennedy's seat, but rather the "people's seat."

http://congress.blogs.foxnews.com/2010/03/20/boehner-its-armageddon-health-care-bill-will-ruin-our-country/



And then theres this Graphic on Palin's website "Targetting" the locations of those who voted for Obamacare in states that the McCain campaign carried through the election



She's since spent a couple days backpedaling and is insistent this is not an incitement to violence.

http://rawstory.com/rs/2010/0324/palin-gun-imagery-attack-democrats/

Its clear from viewing the rally videos what she's accomplishing - whether its deliberate or not... is to evoke very impassioned, very aggressive, and very violent expressions in her crowds.\


oh, it gets better. I'd heard some of these incidents happen the night the house passed the healthcare, Sunday Last.

http://www.countercurrents.org/fuller300310.htm

* The “tea party” boobs chanted “Kill the bill, n*gger, Kill the bill, n*gger” at several black members of Congress. Rep. John Lewis of Georgia, a genuine hero of the civil rights movement, was spat upon as well as called n*gger by the self-styled “patriots.”

* Some of the “good Americans” screamed “f*ggot” at Rep. Barney Frank of Massachusetts, on at least two occasions.

* House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and more than a dozen other Congressional Democrats have received apparently serious threats against their lives to the degree that security around them has been greatly increased.

* Pelosi and several other Democrats were called “communists” and “socialists” and other nonsensical names by wild-eyed screamers. They had to be protected from the mob when entering the Capitol of the United States to do their jobs.

* A right wing blog gave out the home address of Rep. Tom Perriello in Charlottesville, Va., only it wasn't the congressman's home. It was the home of his brother Bo. The dimwitted blogger invited people to drop by the house and “express their thanks” to the congressman for voting for the health care bill. Someone deliberately cut a gas line to the house, an act that might easily have led to an explosion, destruction of the home and even death for its inhabitants. (In Minnesota, we know the danger; two houses here have blown up in the past three weeks as a result of accidentally cut gas lines.) Fortunately, nobody was injured and the house itself wasn't damaged.

* Even Bart Stupak, the rabid antiabortionist from Ohio, has received many apparently serious death threats since voting for the health bill –- something he did only after he got triple assurances that no federal money will be used to pay for abortions (a stipulation that already was in the law).

* Rep. Randy Neugebauer, a Republican from Louisiana, shouted “baby killer” at Stupak in the House chamber after Stupak said he would vote for the health bill. Neugebauer soon claimed he meant the bill, not Stupak, but no one bought that. Then the Louisiana boob sort of apologized for his egregious breach of House decorum –- and turned around within 24 hours and made that breach into a fund-raising TV commerical for himself. That's a nasty little trick that seems to be becoming a standard Republican money-maker, in fact. Joe Wilson, the “You lie” guy did the same thing.

* A brick was thrown through the glass door of New York Rep. Louise Slaughter's Niagara Falls office, and since then a reportedly large number of other Democrats have been threatened with bricks through home and office windows.

* Rep. Anthony Weiner of New York, an outspoken proponent of a single-payer health care system, got a letter the FBI said “could be interpreted as threatening.” The letter contained a quantity of an unidentified white powder.

* Here in Minnesota, Reps. Betty McCollum of the 4th district and Keith Ellison of the 5th district have received specifically threatening letters. Sens. Al Franken and Amy Klobuchar also have been threatened. (Doesn't take much to set off the vicious right wing nuts, obviously; Klobuchar voted for the health bill, but she was a belated and apparently reluctant supporter of the legislation.)

Its in light of some of this **** that I have to wonder how close a few of these Politicians are getting to being Imprisoned for Hate Speech and incitement to violence.

I dont remember any of this madness going on when Bush was on his Throne.

Carcharodon

Its obvious I am not a big Republican fan, especially as of late as things have become very frustrating right accross the board. Jindal for me represents a lot of what is wrong with the party, ever since he gave the REpublican reply to Obamas address to the nation he has become some what of a joke. No matter what he really thinks on immigration, his views will be that of the party as a whole. It is so obvious that there has to be major reform but Republicans will not hold this up for as long as they can. Immigration is a topic for another day though, I have strong feelings about it.

Carcharodon

kev9100 wrote: »

A couple of years ago I would have agreed but fortunately the country has moved on. Sure, there is a very vocal minority that oppose Obama simply because he's black but they are steadily decreasing.

I think that the main reason GOP opposes Obama is that they came to the conclusion that the quickest way to returning to power was ratcheting up the retoric and keeping the base happy. Once you call your President a "socialist" you can't exactly negotiate with him.

I definitely agree with your second point and it is a very accurate and valid point. On the issue of racism, I do feel the country has made strides but there is still an underlying amount of racism in America. It is shocking at times, not just blacks but Mexicans and others from south America. Society has not given these people a fair chance and it is changing very slowly.

rovert

kev9100 wrote: »

A couple of years ago I would have agreed but fortunately the country has moved on. Sure, there is a very vocal minority that oppose Obama simply because he's black but they are steadily decreasing.

I think that the main reason GOP opposes Obama is that they came to the conclusion that the quickest way to returning to power was ratcheting up the retoric and keeping the base happy. Once you call your President a "socialist" you can't exactly negotiate with him.

He also may be satan too.

Amerika

Since Palin has been brought up, here is a good segment where Laura Ingraham takes Matt Lauer of the Baby Killer(1) controlled NBC news division to task. It is best summed up at the end of the exchange in which Lauer claimed Palin was polarizing, and Ingraham countered with low approval ratings for Obamacare.

LAUER: -those hateful words go both ways. Let's be honest here.

INGRAHAM: Yeah but you guys don't report on them, unless they're, they're being made from the supposed right! I wish the same reports and condemnation were coming, when they come from the right. That's where I think people think the media coverage is not all that fair, sometimes, Matt.

http://www.mrc.org/biasalert/2010/20100329120718.aspx

(1)Since obviously it is okay with most everyone that the offensive term “teabaggers” is acceptable regarding the Tea Party movement, I guess hypocrisy won’t reel its ugly head, and we can refer to Liberals as “Baby Killers” for their stance on abortion.

- - - - -

UPDATE: Not just republicans, but the majority of America does not seem to like ObamaCare.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/20100330/ts_csm/291408

Overheal

Amerika wrote: »

(1)Since obviously it is okay with most everyone that the offensive term “teabaggers” is acceptable regarding the Tea Party movement, I guess hypocrisy won’t reel its ugly head, and we can refer to Liberals as “Baby Killers” for their stance on abortion.

Did you report the post where someone referred to them as Teabaggers?

Amerika

Common decency should dictate that I shouldn’t need to.

Overheal

And yet calling Liberal minded individuals "Baby Killers" is a pretty offensive Recourse to take, in response to referring to a Tea Party Protester as a Tea-Bagger.

In fact if you refer to my above post, #23, its one of the choice bouts of Slander and Assault that is being taken seriously as inappropriate behavior from the Movement.

Amerika

Just wanted to get my point across. All fits into the double standards shown towards the two parties. Silence on "teabaggers," but mine is "offensive." Interesting.

But back to the topic. An excellent read on what happens when companies dare to report on the impact of ObamaCare.
http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2010/03/henry-waxmans-war-on-accounting/38206/