Aliens - now considered a classic?

Richard Dower

Discuss, it's one of the rare occasions a sequel is better then the original + one of the most memorable scenes commited to film:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtcqN8g65qU

rednik

I'd like to know who considers it better than Alien, certainly not for me. It is a gung ho action film totally opposite of the original.

ziedth

I for one prefer it to Alien. But like you said they are two very different films so it's nearly impossible to compare them.

Basq

Yeah, I prefer it to Alien.. but as ziedth said, they're completely different films!

Alien is essentially a horror / thriller, but Aliens is an all-out "war" film.

Loved Aliens and watch it religiously, but I honestly don't think Alien has as much of a "rewatchability" factor.

Just my 2c though!

fonecrusher1

Aliens is a classic but lets face it, it has aged badly. Alien still looks great.

Agricola

fonecrusher1 wrote: »

Aliens is a classic but lets face it, it has aged badly. Alien still looks great.

I think its actually one of the few old sci-fi films from the 80's that held up pretty well. The combination of the dark sets and the very realistic xenomorph models keeps it very believable. The camera work is genius in it. Even when the marines are in the middle of an alien stronghold, firing in all different directions, you rarely see the aliens, except in closeup or in tightly choregraphed setpieces. Theres never a moment where you go "look at the dude in the crappy alien costume" Ya have to hand it to Cameron, he made the very best of what he was working with in 1985.

fonecrusher1

Agricola wrote: »

I think its actually one of the few old sci-fi films from the 80's that held up pretty well. The combination of the dark sets and the very realistic xenomorph models keeps it very believable. The camera work is genius in it. Even when the marines are in the middle of an alien stronghold, firing in all different directions, you rarely see the aliens, except in closeup or in tightly choregraphed setpieces. Theres never a moment where you go "look at the dude in the crappy alien costume" Ya have to hand it to Cameron, he made the very best of what he was working with in 1985.

Yeah its a great great movie but there are parts where the special effects don't really cope with what is being asked by the plot/director. The drop-ship crashing towards Ripley & co isn't the most convincing shot ever.
The very last action scene when the mother alien tumbles from the airlock. Its rough.

Im not knocking it, cameron did amazingly well to successfully portray such an ambitious story with such primitive technology.

I just think Alien still looks polished in comparison.


btw.......The Thing still looks amazing & its 4 years older than Aliens!

Giselle

I always think its not a true sequel, in that it crosses over from the sci-fi horror original to an action sci-fi movie.

I prefer the shock value of the original, but as a stand-alone movie Aliens is still a good-looking movie.

If its a classic then so is the original Alien movie, but for different reasons.

Valmont

I watched the directors cut (superior imo) on Film4 last week. I thought the pacing was brilliantly done. Considering it's billed as an 'action' film by many, the Aliens are withheld for quite a while; making their first appearance all the more frightening. I would be very happy if more action films were like Aliens. I agree with Giselle though, it stands alone as a great film irrespective of the original.

foxyboxer

Definitely prefer the original.
The story of it's making is fascinating. "The Beast Within" is a great doc.

I watched Aliens recently and whilst it's a great action movie, for me it pales in comparison to the original. It really is a work of Art (the original cut, not the director's cut). Can't wait to see it on Blu-Ray at the end of the year.

The music, script, plot are all superb.
In fact it invented the 4th act if i'm not mistaken? i.e. It's over but it's not over! then it's over!

smokingman

Deffo a classic alright as far as I'm concerned.
Camerons direction together with the dark tones and brilliant musical score gave me the fright of my life when I saw it first.

Everythings so eerie and slow at the start just like Alien and then from the first dropship scene you know you're in for something special.

I'm a big fan of the franchise and while I didn't have much time for Resurrection, I did love the third one even if no one else did.

bullvine

I think another thing that sets Aliens ahead of Alien is the amount of interesting characters in it, every single one of them has a memorable scene.

ziedth

That's actually a good point, if it look at films like doom the marines in it are just cringe worthy cardbord cutouts but in Aliens to me anyway they seemed very believeable.

krudler

I love Aliens, have seen it countless times. I love the first one two, they're different genres of movies in the same franchise though so comparing them isnt really fair.

I do have to ask though, when has Aliens ever NOT been considered a classic? its one of the best action movies ever.

bullvine

Yeah Aliens has always been a classic, infact as I remember on the back of the original special edition from 1992 its referred to as a Classic Movie.

The 2 films can't really be compared because they are so different and I think both stand alone as arguably greatest Horror and Action movies ever.

To have seen Alien in the cinema must have been so frightening, there really was nothing like it before. Somebody posted a link to the original review from Alien from the guardian awhile back. Its a great read if you can dig it out.

petes

Has to be Aliens for me. Can't remember how many times I've watched it. A lot more than the first anyway.

foxyboxer

bullvine wrote: »

Yeah Aliens has always been a classic, infact as I remember on the back of the original special edition from 1992 its referred to as a Classic Movie.

The 2 films can't really be compared because they are so different and I think both stand alone as arguably greatest Horror and Action movies ever.

To have seen Alien in the cinema must have been so frightening, there really was nothing like it before. Somebody posted a link to the original review from Alien from the guardian awhile back. Its a great read if you can dig it out.

I'd love to read that!

krudler

bullvine wrote: »

Yeah Aliens has always been a classic, infact as I remember on the back of the original special edition from 1992 its referred to as a Classic Movie.

The 2 films can't really be compared because they are so different and I think both stand alone as arguably greatest Horror and Action movies ever.

To have seen Alien in the cinema must have been so frightening, there really was nothing like it before. Somebody posted a link to the original review from Alien from the guardian awhile back. Its a great read if you can dig it out.

I saw it on its anniversary rerelease a few years back, my girlfriend at the time had never seen it and although she thought it was a bit slow and even dull to begin with, by the time Ripley is trying to get off the ship she was gripping my arm so tightly it was hurting, I'd seen it dozens of times already at that stage but it was great seeing it on the big screen.

bullvine

foxyboxer wrote: »

I'd love to read that!

Here you go Linky!

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055709322&highlight=Alien

uncleoswald

Must have watched Aliens close to 80 times. Was my favourite movie ever for years. So now I'm not sure if I have just seen it too many times (still know all of Newts lines....) but I certainly don't hold it in the same regard. I still love it, it is an all time classic but Alien is just a superior film, it has smarts were Aliens has thrills and I guess thats what I look for now. And Aliens is a good 20min too long.

Cameron at his best versus Scott as his best? No contest really.

Duggy747

Aliens to me is one of my favourite movies of all time, everything about it from the technical aspects of building the film right up to the final cut I find amazing for it's time.

I prefer it to Alien but like we say they are two completely different films. Alien is still a classic but for rewatchability it's Aliens hands down!

Two many great scenes to mention but one of my favourites is when Ripley meets the Queen for the 1st time. That epic shot of her laying an egg and panning over to see one giant fùcker, the only sound being of her heavily breathing makes it suspenseful everytime I see it.

Aliens has always been and always will be a classic in my eyes :pac:

ScumLord

What's so surprising about Aliens is that it still looks good, I'm always shocked by how good it looks given the time it was made, Sci-fi rarely ever stands the test of time but Aliens is.

Mr. K

I prefer the first film, but Aliens is much better for repeat viewing. Favourite scenes include Dallas and Kane going onto the ship with the eggs (in the first one) and the first shot of the Queen (in the second).

They're just brilliant films, pity the franchise been kinda ruined in recent years. Here's something I came across yesterday: http://godxiliary.com/alienvspooh/

krudler

ScumLord wrote: »

What's so surprising about Aliens is that it still looks good, I'm always shocked by how good it looks given the time it was made, Sci-fi rarely ever stands the test of time but Aliens is.

Blade Runner says hi.

Aliens was a pretty low budget movie, Cameron just cut corners everywhere, theres only 6 (iirc) alien suits in the movie, it looks like theres more through editing and lighting, you never see more than 3 or 4 max on screen at once. People who accuse Aliens of just being the action version of Alien need to watch it again, the pacing in it is brilliant, you dont even see an alien until nearly an hour into it, its all suspense and tension up to that point.

My favourite scene is when Ripley goes back for Newt, taking the elevator down while tooling herself up to the gills with guns and grenades, she's terrified but has to go through with it, and Horners excellent score builds up until the lift doors open and it cuts to just the sound of the processors warning sirens going off, great scene.

AllGunsBlazing

Aliens is a masterpiece of sci-fi/action film. Along with Terminator probably the best.

Alien is something altogether more sinister though. That film creeps me out in a way that Cameron's sequel never could and the John Hurt/Alien birth scene is one for the ages. And I say that as someone who saw Aliens first - so I knew what to expect, but it still blew me away.

Bubs101

It's such a hard thing to debate because people who like these two films (including myself) love the Alien itself and because Aliens has more of them we consider it the better film but if you were to replace the Aliens with something you see all the time, like cats, Alien would be considered the better film.

cashback

I remember watching Alien for the first time when I was twelve at an English campsite tv room and loving it. Watched it a few months ago on DVD and was surprised how good it still looks.
I'v only seen Aliens once and don't remember it making the same impact on me but I'm due a rewatch.

Richard Dower

krudler wrote: »

Blade Runner says hi.

Aliens was a pretty low budget movie, Cameron just cut corners everywhere, theres only 6 (iirc) alien suits in the movie, it looks like theres more through editing and lighting, you never see more than 3 or 4 max on screen at once. People who accuse Aliens of just being the action version of Alien need to watch it again, the pacing in it is brilliant, you dont even see an alien until nearly an hour into it, its all suspense and tension up to that point.

My favourite scene is when Ripley goes back for Newt, taking the elevator down while tooling herself up to the gills with guns and grenades, she's terrified but has to go through with it, and Horners excellent score builds up until the lift doors open and it cuts to just the sound of the processors warning sirens going off, great scene.

Low budget...really?, it looked megabucks when it came to the hangar bay scenes, drop ships, APC, and the loader!

Richard Dower

When the aliens cut the power, 15ft, 10ft etc. -- TENSION!!

krudler

Richard Dower wrote: »

Low budget...really?, it looked megabucks when it came to the hangar bay scenes, drop ships, APC, and the loader!

Nope, budget was $18m, I know 18 mill back in 85 isnt the same as it is now, but still, Cameron cut corners everywhere. Sure if you watch the scene where Ripley blows the queen out of the airlock, when she pushes the big button to close the hangar bay door, if you look really closely you'll see the buttons are actually from pub slot macines, they all have stuff like TILT and PLAY on them, ah movie magic

krudler

Out of interest, do people prefer the original or special edition cuts of the film? I prefer the special edition but not the bit where we see Newts family discover the ship from the first movie, I always prefered that we go to LV426 with the marines, and that the air of mystery as to how the aliens got into the colony is still there.Love the sentry gun scenes though.

Fiskar

btw.......The Thing still looks amazing & its 4 years older than Aliens![/QUOTE]


The Thing is far better, has aged perfectively and is still as watchable today as yesteryear, IMO :cool:

krudler

I think Aliens has aged really well, the fx are still fantastic in places, the queen still looks better than anything aliens related they've done with cgi, unlike the horrific version in AVP, running around the place like a fcuking T-Rex

fitz

Both great movies. Alien is near perfect, with the "jazz hands" moment being the only thing I'd change about it.

Valmont

krudler wrote: »

unlike the horrific version in AVP, running around the place like a fcuking T-Rex

That was awful.

I liked the scene with Newt's family in the extended edition, the shot of the huge alien ship crashed into the planet was really cool. It added some mystery as I always wondered how it came to crash there in the first place (prequel?).

Ridley

I've just discovered Alien vs Pooh.

Kashkai

They are both stand alone classics with their own incredible and memorable scenes. I'm surprised no one has mentioned the scariest scene from Alien, where Dallas is in the air duct "chasing" the Alien and is being monitored on a primitive movement detector when the Alien's dot starts converging with his and he doesn't know where to run so he drops down a level turns round and ..........! This scene still makes me jump. Alien definitely has the more tension but Aliens is my favourite and I watch it two or three times a year. Most people who've seen it can sound off numerous memorable quotes:

"I say we take off and nuke the site from orbit, it's the only way to be sure"

"it's reading right man. Well you're not reading it right"

"five metres. That can't be, that's inside the room ( cue looking up at ceiling crawl space in horror)"

"game over man, game over"

"stay frosty cause we can't afford to let one of those .....,, in here"

tman

I'd say Aliens for me - Alien is a damn fine film, but Aliens is just so much more re-watchable. I watched both of them about 6 months ago, but after reading this thread I've got a craving to watch Aliens again tonight!

Without doubt a classic

rednik

I'm surprised at the amount of war mongers here.:D:D. I saw Alien on release and it is in my top ten. Aliens would be in my top 100. I just think it is so OTT with the gung ho marines compared to the real crew of Alien. I can and do watch Alien over and over and will do so more once it is released on blu ray but I could be waiting a while as I don't want the box set I just want the original and the best.

humanji

I think I prefer Aliens to Alien, possibly because it has Hudson in it. I mean, Bill Paxton has been killed by an alien, a predator and a terminator. How unlucky can you get?

I quite like the directors cut of Aliens, but as was said above I kind of preceded knowing nothing of the colony until the marines arrive. It kind of ruins it a little.

krudler

humanji wrote: »

I think I prefer Aliens to Alien, possibly because it has Hudson in it. I mean, Bill Paxton has been killed by an alien, a predator and a terminator. How unlucky can you get?

I quite like the directors cut of Aliens, but as was said above I kind of preceded knowing nothing of the colony until the marines arrive. It kind of ruins it a little.

so has Lance Henriksen:D

TonyD79

Would have been funny to see him play a role in the Aliens vs Predator film in that case but survive! Felt Alien 3 took a lot from both films and was v good. Think there both great films and like Terminator vs Terminator 2 debate its hard to claim a clear winner.

fluke

Prosperous Dave wrote: »

They are both stand alone classics with their own incredible and memorable scenes. I'm surprised no one has mentioned the scariest scene from Alien, where Dallas is in the air duct "chasing" the Alien and is being monitored on a primitive movement detector when the Alien's dot starts converging with his and he doesn't know where to run so he drops down a level turns round and ..........! This scene still makes me jump. Alien definitely has the more tension but Aliens is my favourite and I watch it two or three times a year. Most people who've seen it can sound off numerous memorable quotes:

"I say we take off and nuke the site from orbit, it's the only way to be sure"

"it's reading right man. Well you're not reading it right"

"five metres. That can't be, that's inside the room ( cue looking up at ceiling crawl space in horror)"

"game over man, game over"

"stay frosty cause we can't afford to let one of those .....,, in here"

Great ones, some of my personal faves:

'What are we supposed to use? Harsh Language?'
'Not bad for a ... human'
'They mostly come out at night...mostly'

expectationlost

i presume a certain age group may have seen aliens first and then gone back to look at alien, so that influence their preference, as well as aliens being more kick ass

Mr. Presentable

Prosperous Dave wrote: »

They are both stand alone classics with their own incredible and memorable scenes. I'm surprised no one has mentioned the scariest scene from Alien, where Dallas is in the air duct "chasing" the Alien and is being monitored on a primitive movement detector when the Alien's dot starts converging with his and he doesn't know where to run so he drops down a level turns round and ..........! This scene still makes me jump. Alien definitely has the more tension but Aliens is my favourite and I watch it two or three times a year. Most people who've seen it can sound off numerous memorable quotes:

"I say we take off and nuke the site from orbit, it's the only way to be sure"

"it's reading right man. Well you're not reading it right"

"five metres. That can't be, that's inside the room ( cue looking up at ceiling crawl space in horror)"

"game over man, game over"

"stay frosty cause we can't afford to let one of those .....,, in here"

Hudson: "Hey, Vasquez, you ever been mistaken for a man?"

Vasquez: "No. Have you?"

johndoe99

Alien is by far superior to Aliens in my opinion, but Aliens is also a favourite as it has a lot more action, i cant wait til they release "Alien Quadrilogy Blu-ray" slated for a November/December release.

MagicMarker

I remember all 4 of the movies being shown on TG4 in successive weeks when I was about 14. I taped them all and skipped school one day to watch em, that was a good day!

cml387

From my point of view, we are all in the post-Alien age.
It's interesting to look at the design of sci-fi games,e.g. Dead Space owe a huge debt to the H.R. Geiger look of the "beast".

The point about budgets and special effets misses the point. In Alien it lurked unseen for most of the time, it was the suspense created by the unseen fear that made it such a frightening experience.

I saw it on release back in 1980 and many people left the cinema halfway through.

Aliens is a different film (also a classic) but there will only be one original.

And remember the line about decoding the message from the alien ship they found on the surface. "..it seemed to be a - warning?"

Mr. Presentable

cml387 wrote: »

From my point of view, we are all in the post-Alien age.
It's interesting to look at the design of sci-fi games,e.g. Dead Space owe a huge debt to the H.R. Geiger look of the "beast".

The point about budgets and special effets misses the point. In Alien it lurked unseen for most of the time, it was the suspense created by the unseen fear that made it such a frightening experience.

I saw it on release back in 1980 and many people left the cinema halfway through.

Aliens is a different film (also a classic) but there will only be one original.

And remember the line about decoding the message from the alien ship they found on the surface. "..it seemed to be a - warning?"

Actually, I have a board game "Aliens" which is pretty good. It enacts the escape from under the reactors.

jimi_t2

For an ''action'' movie, you've got a few very pertinent themes that are never heavy - grace under pressure, the morality/ethics of synthetic beings and the continuous assement of human life in monetary terms. From the very first lines

Salvage team leader: Bio-readouts are all in the green, looks like she's alive. Well, there goes our salvage, guys.

to the antics of Burke

Ripley: You know, Burke, I don't know which species is worse. You don't see them ****ing each other over for a goddamn percentage.

In fairness, the actors are spot on as well - Fans of Sigourney Weaver should check out the likes of ''The Ice Storm'' - but the dialogue is where the movie really shines, everything from the faux-marine bravado to the vietnam-era blaxploitation transferred to space

Frost: Hey, I sure wouldn't mind getting some more of that Arcturian poontang! Remember that time?
Spunkmeyer: Yeah, Frost, but the one that you had was a male!
Frost: It doesn't matter when it's Arcturian, baby!

and of course the delightfully precocious Newt

Ripley: I]referring to the doll[/I Look, no bad dreams there.
Newt: Ripley, she doesn't have bad dreams because she's just a piece of plastic.



and this is completely disregarding the setpieces.

The knife game, The first dropship crashing, the first ''encounter'', the scene with the auto-turrets and their blinking ammunition screens, Ripley and newt against two facehuggers, the alien rising out of the water behind newt, Bishop getting cut in half, the exo-skeleton vs. queen scene

.

I mean ****ing hell, in something comparable of the same era like Die Hard you get a couple of catchphrases and that one beautiful scene where a battered Bruce Willis

has the gun taped to his back

. This, like so few other sci-fi movies (Pitch Black, Silent Running, Brazil, Blade Runner) tends to both act as a pastiche of its genre while completely transcending it.

Extra trivia: Al Matthews, the black drill sergeant, has a ridiculous CV. While on combat duty during the Vietnam War, Matthews became the first Black marine to be meritoriously promoted to the rank of Sergeant (E-5). On his return, Williams was also the first "black voice" on England's national station, 'Radio 1.' This is while balancing a career as a quite famous folk singer in England.

Oh, and his first acting job? Mr.Green in three episodes of Grange Hill

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0559922/

Kashkai

This is an argument that will never be resolved as we all have our favourite but I feel that fans of one movie would still appreciate the other.

For myself, the greatest disappointment was Alien 3 where they eliminated two great characters in Hicks and Newt. I know it would have been a stretch for them both to survive another encounter even though they had the experience of fighting the Alien. This movie left me totally empty inside as I thought it was badly scripted and shot, the characters were poor and it was impossible to feel any empathy for them when they met their fate, unlike the deaths of Hudson, Vasquez and Gorman towards the end of Aliens.

As for "Resurrection", this was a light hearted action romp that got more ridiculous as the film wore on. Alien with a womb?, like COME ON! WTF were they thinking?

I've a few ideas for proper Alien movies if Ridley Scott or James Cameron are on boards.

1. Aliens prequel on LV 427. Film starts about the time Burke sends his message to check out Ripleys account of the Alien spacecraft. Newts family go out, the Dad gets facehugged, is brought back to colony, he does a John Hurt chestburst. Alien escapes into ductwork. Colonists hunt it and naturally get picked off one at a time until the Alien numbers increase to a point where they get bolder. Colonists go on the defensive, erect barricades, try to call for help but Aliens have damaged transmitter ( "they damaged the transmitter? How did they do that cause they're just animals"). Final climatic battle, newts mother tells her and Timmy to hide in the ventilation ducts just before she is taken by an Alien but Timmy also gets grabbed as he trips and falls running after newt. Final scene is newts mother waking up in her cocoon and seeing the egg opening, the facehugger emerging and it leaps at the camera.

2. I'd do a proper Aliens sequel where Aliens 3 and 4 were a bad dream. Due to damage to the Sulacco by meteors, it drifts into deep space and is discovered 200 years later when humans explore that far out. Ripley, Hicks and Newt have aged, albeit slowly when found by a Marine team on their way to find a missing scientific exploration team who set down unknowingly on the Aliens homeworld. Naturally the marines leader is an a$$hole who won't listen to Ripley and cue massacre, battles etc. Still thinking about this one and how it ends.