Thinking of handing keys back to mortgage company

auditek923

i am only working part time and my wife is too. she is about to go on maternity leave.
we have a house since 2005. i foolishly remortged in 2007 with start mortgages as a short term solution to our finances.mortgage only in my name. we had planned to sell up and build on a site owned by my father in law. but the housing bubble soon burst and our house went into negative equity.
we can no longer afford our 1200 per month mortgage. we are getting into serious debt now as we cant afford our monthly bills plus mortgage.
what happens if we hand back our house to start mortgages.
we would rent a property somewhere else
urgent advice needed .

D3PO

if you hand them back they will see the property.

If you owe 250k for example and they sell for 150k then you will still owe them 100k plus interest until that is paid off.

Handing the keys back doesnt obsolve you from the debt Im afraid. Bankruptcy law in this country is in serious need of reform

Paulw

Bottom line - you can't. You can't just hand back your house. You are still liable for the full mortgage and interest until it's paid in full.

Go talk to your mortgage company/broker. Only they can help you.

Zamboni

Leave the country.
It is a serious option these days.

D3PO

Zamboni wrote: »

Leave the country.
It is a serious option these days.

you left a bit out

Leave the country and never return if you do return that the debt will still hang over you and you wont be able to return here.

Doesnt sound like a serious option to me.

Zamboni

D3PO wrote: »

you left a bit out

Leave the country and never return if you do return that the debt will still hang over you and you wont be able to return here.

Doesnt sound like a serious option to me.

Aye very true. The Never Return bit is certainly the main negative factor but the truth is some people are in absolute dire straits.
I personally would have no qualms about never returning to this country if the need arose.


On a sombre note, it is also a better option than this.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055860630

Paulw

Zamboni wrote: »

Aye very true. The Never Return bit is certainly the main negative factor but the truth is some people are in absolute dire straits.
I personally would have no qualms about never returning to this country if the need arose.

But, where do you get the funds to start a new life?? Where do you move to?

The best (and most logical) thing to do is just talk to your bank/mortgage broker, and try to work out some form of an arrangement. The bank don't want your property, they want the money.

lucy2010

Firstly can you go interest only with your bank ? Is this maybe an option. Secondly contact your local CWO. If you are working PT and your wife is going on maternity leave you will need sufficient means to survive & they may be able to help. Its tough but remember you have a little baby on the way & it will need a roof to live under so maybe handing the keys back would not be a good idea.

Good luck & hopefully you will get something sorted soon.

auditek923

Zamboni wrote: »

Aye very true. The Never Return bit is certainly the main negative factor but the truth is some people are in absolute dire straits.
I personally would have no qualms about never returning to this country if the need arose.


On a sombre note, it is also a better option than this.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055860630

well suicide is not a way out for me and i dont want to leave the country.

Zamboni

auditek923 wrote: »

well suicide is not a way out for me and i dont want to leave the country.

Good to hear.
Have you spoken to your mortgage provider yet?

auditek923

Zamboni wrote: »

Good to hear.
Have you spoken to your mortgage provider yet?

they are a shower of thieves. they are start mortgages. sub prime lenders. they charging us almost 1200 per month on a 40 year mortgage . house now valued at 150k

gurramok

Go to Mabs straight away, they will give you good advice.

Remember, you will not always be like this, you will eventually end up getting a full time job even if it takes a year, its just a matter of getting through this bad phase which is temporary.

Ye might be entitled to Mortgage Interest supplement. If not, ask yourself is it worthwhile to be still working part time? (some might see this rightly as sponging off the taxpayer but thats how it works out there for some when they add up the maths)

Paulw

auditek923 wrote: »

they are a shower of thieves. they are start mortgages. sub prime lenders. they charging us almost 1200 per month on a 40 year mortgage . house now valued at 150k

And yet, you still you took out a mortgage with them. Hmmm. Who do you blame, besides yourself?

You need professional advice from a qualified financial adviser. Simple as that. Talk to Start Mortgages, a mortgage broker and MABS.

auditek923

Paulw wrote: »

And yet, you still you took out a mortgage with them. Hmmm. Who do you blame, besides yourself?

You need professional advice from a qualified financial adviser. Simple as that. Talk to Start Mortgages, a mortgage broker and MABS.

at the time we needed the money and rushed into it as we saw it as a quick fix. yes in hindsight it was the biggest mistake of our lives. we had only planned to pay off debts with remortgage money and biuld a new house but the property boom ended and with it so did our dream.

Paulw

The fact is, you HAVE a mortgage with them, so you need to talk to them.

Go get some professional financial advice, talk to mabs, and see what you can do.

therecklessone

No amount of posting on boards will change the fact that you need to heed this:

Paulw wrote: »

The fact is, you HAVE a mortgage with them, so you need to talk to them.

Go get some professional financial advice, talk to mabs, and see what you can do.

D3PO

auditek923 wrote: »

they are a shower of thieves. they are start mortgages. sub prime lenders. they charging us almost 1200 per month on a 40 year mortgage . house now valued at 150k

Im sorry but that is your fault. You accepted the terms including the interest rate. Nobody forced you to do it. Man up take responsibility and realise you made a bad choice.

fontanalis

Subprime, bloody hell. Just talk to the lender asap.

Idbatterim

1. first thing Id do is try and renegotiate terms with the bank, maybe go on interest only for a while. Failing that could you rent out your house and rent somewhere cheaper? Would this poster apply for rent allowance?

billybigunz

auditek923 wrote: »

i am only working part time and my wife is too. she is about to go on maternity leave.
we have a house since 2005. i foolishly remortged in 2007 with start mortgages as a short term solution to our finances.mortgage only in my name. we had planned to sell up and build on a site owned by my father in law. but the housing bubble soon burst and our house went into negative equity.
we can no longer afford our 1200 per month mortgage. we are getting into serious debt now as we cant afford our monthly bills plus mortgage.
what happens if we hand back our house to start mortgages.
we would rent a property somewhere else
urgent advice needed .

Nice one, we will pick up the bill no bother. Thanks for that.

Idbatterim

D3PO wrote

"Handing the keys back doesnt obsolve you from the debt Im afraid. Bankruptcy law in this country is in serious need of reform"

Do you honestly think people should just be able to walk away from their mistakes? Hopefully people will now wake up to reality and we will never enter such a situation again, people fearing they will never get on the "property ladder" buying crap houses and apartments in the middle of nowehere etc...

billybigunz

Idbatterim wrote: »

D3PO wrote

"Handing the keys back doesnt obsolve you from the debt Im afraid. Bankruptcy law in this country is in serious need of reform"

Do you honestly think people should just be able to walk away from their mistakes? Hopefully people will now wake up to reality and we will never enter such a situation again, people fearing they will never get on the "property ladder" buying crap houses and apartments in the middle of nowehere etc...

Well it would have made the banks a little more careful in their lending. Wouldn't be near the disaster we have now.

staker

OP don't hand the keys back in, go interest only for a while and at least give your new baby a roof over his head.
You'd regret it for the rest of your life.

D3PO

Idbatterim wrote: »

D3PO wrote

Do you honestly think people should just be able to walk away from their mistakes? Hopefully people will now wake up to reality and we will never enter such a situation again, people fearing they will never get on the "property ladder" buying crap houses and apartments in the middle of nowehere etc...

do you think the banks taking no pain is a deterent to wreckless lending ? i didnt say they should hoave no responsibility bit you can have bankruptsy reform that is balanced

Idbatterim

I totally disagree with the one set of rules for the banks and the one for the rest of us. But the final decision to draw down credit is made by the individual and he or she is ultimately responsible! Its often asked where the buck stops, but in this case its quite clear.

iguana

Idbatterim wrote: »

I totally disagree with the one set of rules for the banks and the one for the rest of us. But the final decision to draw down credit is made by the individual and he or she is ultimately responsible! Its often asked where the buck stops, but in this case its quite clear.

While I agree with you there is one thing you are missing. In countries where it's easier to default things tend to bottom out much faster. House prices have been falling for 4 years now and are still nowhere near as low as they will ultimately fall. It could take another 4 years or more before houses start selling for their actual value. We are headed for a long, protracted fall in both house prices and the economy. If things happened faster it would only be a good thing.

the_syco

auditek923 wrote: »

they are a shower of thieves. they are start mortgages. sub prime lenders. they charging us almost 1200 per month on a 40 year mortgage . house now valued at 150k

Sub prime lenders give mortgages to those who can't afford mortgages from "proper" banks, and charge you a fee for the privilege for getting a mortgage with them.

Talk to MABS about your situation. Running away will make this problem a lot worse.

ei.sdraob

Stop paying it

after about a year and many threatening mails later

you'll end-up in front of judge


explain that you can not pay it for your life (Assuming your finances don't improve by then), theres no way in hell would a judge kick out a family out of their PPR

the judges are well aware of the personal bankruptcy laws being flawed, and as has shown in recent cases would judge fairly

ricman

It sounds like ,you needed money ,you borrowed 200k thru a remortgage.You could try and go to another bank, and get the mortgage switched over to them, ie reduce the interest rate.But if you owned the house ,did you spend all the money already.Talk to mabs, but if you are working part time,it would be easier to sell the house for 150, then at least you are only paying interest on 100k.Frankly it would be easier to go to the city council and get on the housing list.You need to talk to the community welfare officer.
IF you dont sell up ,at some point the bank will take you to court and you,ll end up paying ,interest plus legal fees.
Prices are going down, the longer you stay there, the lower the selling price will be.I,D prefer to sell voluntarily, then be forced to sell up in 9 months.
The cwo will provide accomodation for you ,after you sell the house,if you simply cannot afford to buy another house, ie its not easy to get a mortgage, when you have 100k debt.
Prices will be falling for the next 5 years.
AS far as i can see theres no personal bankruptcy laws in ireland, its not like a company ,which can be closed down.
The best you can do,is sell up, reduce the dept ,WHILE your house is still worth 150k.
Subprime companys deal only with people who find it hard to borrow from a normal bank, and
they charge much higher interest rates.

ei.sdraob

oh and make sure the solicitors dont tie your name to this boards account of yours!

as that would show intent and wont look good if it ever comes to court

D3PO

ricman wrote: »

It sounds like ,you needed money ,you borrowed 200k thru a remortgage.You could try and go to another bank, and get the mortgage switched over to them, ie reduce the interest rate..

what planet are you living on ? Do you seriously think somebody that had to go to a sub prime lender and is defaulting will be given the facility of switiching to another bank.

Banks aren't taking switchers now even those in good credit and with positive LTV's so why in the hell do you think this would be an option ?

Treehouse72

ei.sdraob wrote: »

Stop paying it

ricman wrote: »

It sounds like ,you needed money ,you borrowed 200k thru a remortgage.You could try and go to another bank, and get the mortgage switched over to them, ie reduce the interest rate.But if you owned the house ,did you spend all the money already.Talk to mabs, but if you are working part time,it would be easier to sell the house for 150, then at least you are only paying interest on 100k.Frankly it would be easier to go to the city council and get on the housing list.You need to talk to the community welfare officer.
IF you dont sell up ,at some point the bank will take you to court and you,ll end up paying ,interest plus legal fees.
Prices are going down, the longer you stay there, the lower the selling price will be.I,D prefer to sell voluntarily, then be forced to sell up in 9 months.
The cwo will provide accomodation for you ,after you sell the house,if you simply cannot afford to buy another house, ie its not easy to get a mortgage, when you have 100k debt.
Prices will be falling for the next 5 years.
AS far as i can see theres no personal bankruptcy laws in ireland, its not like a company ,which can be closed down.
The best you can do,is sell up, reduce the dept ,WHILE your house is still worth 150k.
Subprime companys deal only with people who find it hard to borrow from a normal bank, and
they charge much higher interest rates.

I don't mean to be rude, but these two posts show why OP needs to get professional advice and not rely on information from here.

No disrespect meant to posters who are only trying to help. But both these pieces of advice are shocking.

meathstevie

Go accross the water, set up your tent in England for a while and go through a bankrupcy procedure over there if the water realy is at your lips.

If you're working part time only you're quite likely to qualify for family income support as well.

cynder

Well 40 year term at 1200 per month = 576,000. House only worth 150,000. ouch.

If your only working part time maybe you should look for a second job or a full time one - i know easier said than done.

your wife should get maternity benefit of aprox 200€ a week for 6 months.

Your house should be your main concern - pay your mortgage, esb and gas. If you have c/c or a loan pay them last, they cant take the house of you if you stop paying them.

You really should talk to mabs .

http://www.mabs.ie/

best of luck!

lightroom

As far as I know, if you leave the country with debt, you won't be able to get any loan/credit card/bank account from anywhere in the world. This is for sure not an option no matter what.

D3PO

Treehouse72 wrote: »

I don't mean to be rude, but these two posts show why OP needs to get professional advice and not rely on information from here.

No disrespect meant to posters who are only trying to help. But both these pieces of advice are shocking.

Id swear some people on here posting are reading economics for dummys or something similar. Either that or they are trying to take detail for other threads and posting it without having a clue about what they are saying.

I totally agree some shocking "advice" posted on here at times.

ei.sdraob

Treehouse72 wrote: »

I don't mean to be rude, but these two posts show why OP needs to get professional advice and not rely on information from here.

No disrespect meant to posters who are only trying to help. But both these pieces of advice are shocking.

yes he should seek professional advice


whats so "shocking" about stopping paying something you cant afford and letting the courts decide on the matter?

the personal bankruptcy laws in Ireland are crazy, obviously the OP didnt realize what hes getting himself into at the time when he signed under "your home is at risk if you dont keep up repayments" bit

if he is brought to court as per recent judgements the judge quite likely will free him of the debt or try to reach some sort of compromise deal

iguana

ei.sdraob wrote: »

if he is brought to court as per recent judgements the judge quite likely will free him of the debt or try to reach some sort of compromise deal

When has that ever happened? Afaik nobody in the OP's situation has ever been "freed of the debt" in Ireland. People have been given a stay of repossession and allowed a grace period in the hope that they will get back on their feet. And I certainly know of cases where the family home has been repossessed. They are rare but they are becoming more common and will in all likelihood happen more and more over the next few years.

danbohan

D3PO wrote: »

you left a bit out

Leave the country and never return if you do return that the debt will still hang over you and you wont be able to return here.

Doesnt sound like a serious option to me.

i think its very good option , and is their not a 20 year statuary limitation on debt ? anyway , why is everybody so worried about the banks let them rot

Jo King

ei.sdraob wrote: »

yes he should seek professional advice


whats so "shocking" about stopping paying something you cant afford and letting the courts decide on the matter?

the personal bankruptcy laws in Ireland are crazy, obviously the OP didnt realize what hes getting himself into at the time when he signed under "your home is at risk if you dont keep up repayments" bit

if he is brought to court as per recent judgements the judge quite likely will free him of the debt or try to reach some sort of compromise deal

What recent judgments? There are family homes being repossessed every week by court order.
Judges do not free people of debt, neither do they try and reach a compromise.
The peculiar thing about this case is that the o/p remortgaged a house into his own name. Did his wife sign a consent to the mortgage?

ricman

GO to mabs get advice, but i still think the best thing you should do is sell the house ,reduce money owed to 100k.
NO judge is gonna wave his hand and make the loan disappear.GO to cwo ,welfare officer,you,ll be entitled to fis,family income supplement.
AT some point they,ll take you to court and force you to sell the house.
YOU would save time ,stress by selling it yourself,and you,ll save alot of money in legal fees ,interest payments.
go to threshold for advice ,or centrecare, re housing options.
YOU will be given housing by the hse ,or local housing authority.
Theres alot more dignity in positively taking the matter forward yourself, sell it yourself, rather than waitiing for the courts to force you to sell it .
SEE www.threshold.ie
I see no point in waiting, for house prices to decline.

eth0_

Am I missing something here? Presumably you've been in financial difficulty or staring down the barrel of it for quite some time, yet you decided now would be a good time to have a baby?

OP you need to stop living in dream land and cop on! Sell the house and rent somewhere. You'll still owe a hefty sum to the mortgage broker and will probably never be able to purchase another property again but that's the consequences for getting yourself into a sub-prime mortgage and you need to face up to this sooner or later.

auditek923

op here. have a meeting with mabs on thurs morning .

rightwingdub

A lot of people shouldn't have been approved for a mortgage in the first place, they should have stuck to renting and anyone who took out a mortgage with a sub prime lender is absolutely insane.

Whats wrong with renting, really attitudes need to change in Ireland as regards renting.

barochoc

rightwingdub wrote: »

A lot of people shouldn't have been approved for a mortgage in the first place, they should have stuck to renting and anyone who took out a mortgage with a sub prime lender is absolutely insane.

Whats wrong with renting, really attitudes need to change in Ireland as regards renting.

This is very true. You can be sure that the majority of people who got these stupid mortgages over 40 years lied through their teeth to get the finance.

Pay slips & statements altered to please the bank etc.... I seen it every day for years & it never tempted me once.

I knew this bubble was ready to burst years ago & I listened to the real experts not the pr!cks who were directly involved in construction.

Friends nagging me for years about getting on the property ladder ASAP because houses will just keep going up etc.... I just laughed at them & said "how many people in Germany actually own their home?"

There was a silence & then I said. "40%"

They then laughed.....

Bottom line is, we were sucked in to this culture of having to buy a property or you were nobody or a loser.

Am I still a loser???

Banks are scum & never a truer statement made than this one by Robert Frost:

"A bank is a place where they lend you an umbrella in fair weather and ask for it back when it begins to rain."

Sound familiar?

Amhran Nua

meathstevie wrote: »

Go accross the water, set up your tent in England for a while and go through a bankrupcy procedure over there if the water realy is at your lips.

If you're working part time only you're quite likely to qualify for family income support as well.

This might be one of the better options in the face of complete and utter ruin, I'd say. More information here:

Question:

My son has debts of approximately £50,000 excluding any negative equity which he will owe the Irish Nationwide on his house in Eire, which he has requested them to repossess. He wishes to petition for bankruptcy, and wishes to do so quickly, because creditors are chasing him for money he cannet pay. My son now lives in the uk

We have tried to contact Irish Nationwide, and have used a Land Registry website in Eire to find out who is the present regisyered owner, but without success so far. I think the amount of negative equity could be £100,000 plus, excluding existing mortgage arrears payments.

His problem is that Irish Nationwide will not respond to any enquiries as to whether they have actually repossessed his house in Eire

If my son goes bankrupt now, before the issue of negative equity has been clarified, can he deal with that potential debt with this application, or would he have to go bankrupt a second time when the Building society finally decides to communicate with him?

We are desparately worried about the situation, and in particular about a threatened prosecution for one particular outstanding debt.

Answer:

If your son is a resident in the UK and has met the residency requirements he can go bankrupt in the UK and include his Eire/EU debts, including any shortfall from a property repossessed.

In his going bankrupt here, the Official Receiver will send notices to all those he owes including Irish Nationwide.

Even if your son does not know the exact amount owed this, now unsecured debt, will be included and can be discharged, so it does not matter if he knows the exact amount or not.

Bankruptcy laws in the UK are considerably more lenient than in Ireland, you might get out from under it in a couple of years. Note, I am not a solicitor, and this post does not constitute legal advice, talk to someone who knows about the subject professionally.

lucy2010

auditek923 wrote: »

op here. have a meeting with mabs on thurs morning .

Great to hear - MABS queues around the country are months long ( Personally was given an appointment 9 months away)

They are a great help & will advise on best to do.
Good luck & best wishes on the new baby .

GerardKeating

danbohan wrote: »

i think its very good option , and is their not a 20 year statuary limitation on debt ? anyway , why is everybody so worried about the banks let them rot

It's 6 year i think, but the clock on most statues of limitations stop when one leaves the jurisdiction, so the limit is 6 years PLUS any time spent outside the country, assuming they can prove one was abroad.

The_Conductor

ei.sdraob wrote: »

Stop paying it

after about a year and many threatening mails later

you'll end-up in front of judge


explain that you can not pay it for your life (Assuming your finances don't improve by then), theres no way in hell would a judge kick out a family out of their PPR

the judges are well aware of the personal bankruptcy laws being flawed, and as has shown in recent cases would judge fairly

Start Mortgages are not covered in the Bank Guarantee scheme- and at present comprise nearly 90% of repossession cases in the court system. As little as 2 months arrears can have a repossession order granted against you (particularly if you do not defend the action- as increasing numbers of people are bizarrely choosing to do)........

rightwingdub

smccarrick wrote: »

Start Mortgages are not covered in the Bank Guarantee scheme- and at present comprise nearly 90% of repossession cases in the court system. As little as 2 months arrears can have a repossession order granted against you (particularly if you do not defend the action- as increasing numbers of people are bizarrely choosing to do)........

Anyone who took out a mortgage with a sub prime lender should never have got a mortgage in the firsts place, as I said previously they should have stuck to renting, even though some of their friends may have treated them like social pariahs:rolleyes:

Jaysoose

barochoc wrote: »

This is very true. You can be sure that the majority of people who got these stupid mortgages over 40 years lied through their teeth to get the finance.

Pay slips & statements altered to please the bank etc.... I seen it every day for years & it never tempted me once.

I knew this bubble was ready to burst years ago & I listened to the real experts not the pr!cks who were directly involved in construction.

Friends nagging me for years about getting on the property ladder ASAP because houses will just keep going up etc.... I just laughed at them & said "how many people in Germany actually own their home?"

There was a silence & then I said. "40%"

They then laughed.....

Bottom line is, we were sucked in to this culture of having to buy a property or you were nobody or a loser.

Am I still a loser???

Banks are scum & never a truer statement made than this one by Robert Frost:

"A bank is a place where they lend you an umbrella in fair weather and ask for it back when it begins to rain."

Sound familiar?

What an unhelpful self righteous rant...how does this help the OP?