5 decades sub 3hr marathons.

runsalot

I have a friend in the States who is attempting to run a sub 3hr marathon for the fifth consecutive decade at the Boston marathon.
http://footloose.runnersworld.com/2010/03/march-25-reno-stirrat-headed-for-boston-and-fifth-straight-decade-sub-245-in-marathon.html

He asked me was their any Irish athletes who have done this and i reckon here is a good place to get an answer.

Thanks

Krusty_Clown

That depends. Do you mean someone who was born in Ireland, or someone who has lived in Ireland throughout their lives?

It would be far easier to achieve this goal living in the US (not that it is easy in any way!), as the Dublin Marathon has only been around since 1980, the Cork marathon since 1982 (though they took a 21 year break). Even the London marathon has only been around since 1981). So for anyone to achieve this goal, they would have to had to travel to foreign climates to finish a sub-3 marathon. Irish people didn't travel abroad as much 40-50 years ago, because of the prohibitive cost, so we'd have to assume that anyone doing so, to run a marathon would be in a competitive class. So you'd be looking at competitive Irish marathon runners from 40-50 years ago (who remained competitive for 20 years). Not a huge pool to choose from.

So the answer is, that it is possible, but not very likely. However, you must bear in mind that the limitation is as much about logistics, as it is about ability.

robinph

Nothing like sub3hrs, but just realised that in a couple of weeks I'll have done a marathon in 4 seperate decades.

runsalot

Either born here or someone who lives here, doesn't matter.

5 Decades of Sub 3:00 Marathons. Official members:

1. Barry Magee, NZ, 50s-90s
2. Derek Turnbull, AUS, 50s-90s (RIP)
3. Larry Olson, MA, 60s-00s (RIP)
4. Terry Stanley, PA, 70s-10s
5. Gary Allen, ME, 70s-10s


They have set up a group and are looking to find more members.
This group features those who have (or who are eligible) to run sub 3 hr marathons (or faster) in 5 consecutive decades. Amby Burfoot should get credit for doing much of the research surrounding this project.

"Run long and healthy."

jailhouse_dave

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

That depends. Do you mean someone who was born in Ireland, or someone who has lived in Ireland throughout their lives?

It would be far easier to achieve this goal living in the US (not that it is easy in any way!), as the Dublin Marathon has only been around since 1980, the Cork marathon since 1982 (though they took a 21 year break). Even the London marathon has only been around since 1981). So for anyone to achieve this goal, they would have to had to travel to foreign climates to finish a sub-3 marathon. Irish people didn't travel abroad as much 40-50 years ago, because of the prohibitive cost, so we'd have to assume that anyone doing so, to run a marathon would be in a competitive class. So you'd be looking at competitive Irish marathon runners from 40-50 years ago (who remained competitive for 20 years). Not a huge pool to choose from.

So the answer is, that it is possible, but not very likely. However, you must bear in mind that the limitation is as much about logistics, as it is about ability.

The irish national marathon championship has been held since 1958

http://www.arrs.net/NC_MaraIRL.htm

although not mainstream anyone who wanted to run a marathon wouldnt have had to travel abroad.

From looking at this list one that springs to mind or a possibility would be dick hooper?, not sure if sub 3 marathons in 5 decades would add anything to the CV of a 3 time olympian and 6 time national marathon winner mind you.

runsalot

jailhouse_dave wrote: »

The irish national marathon championship has been held since 1958

http://www.arrs.net/NC_MaraIRL.htm

although not mainstream anyone who wanted to run a marathon wouldnt have had to travel abroad.

From looking at this list one that springs to mind or a possibility would be dick hooper?, not sure if sub 3 marathons in 5 decades would add anything to the CV of a 3 time olympian and 6 time national marathon winner mind you.

Thanks jailhouse Dave,.I believe he ran some pretty good marathons in New York this past decade too in the 2:25-2:35 range.

Krusty_Clown

jailhouse_dave wrote: »

The irish national marathon championship has been held since 1958

http://www.arrs.net/NC_MaraIRL.htm

although not mainstream anyone who wanted to run a marathon wouldnt have had to travel abroad.

From looking at this list one that springs to mind or a possibility would be dick hooper?, not sure if sub 3 marathons in 5 decades would add anything to the CV of a 3 time olympian and 6 time national marathon winner mind you.

Duly and greatfully corrected!

Krusty_Clown

Dick has run sub-3 (very sub-3!) in the 70s, 80s, 90s, and 00's. So I guess if he has or will run a sub 3 in this decade, his name can be added to the roster (but as you say, compared to his other accomplishments, this would just be statistic).

Looking at the Irish Masters site, Flor O'Leary of St Finbarrs could also be a candidate, having run sub-3 as an M55 and M60 (in the 80s and 90s (respectively). So if he ran equally as well in his earlier years, he could also be on the list. Maybe Condo131 might know?

Hard Worker

Dick Hooper has run sub 2.30 in four decades. I have no doubt that he could run a sub 3 in training to make the five decades of sub 3. Only Dick knows if he will bother doing another one though. I might check with him and put him in the picture.

christeb

Hard Worker wrote: »

Dick Hooper has run sub 2.30 in four decades. I have no doubt that he could run a sub 3 in training to make the five decades of sub 3. Only Dick knows if he will bother doing another one though. I might check with him and put him in the picture.

Wow - I didn't know that. I'll ask the guys in the club or Dick if I see him, I regularly give him a "Hiya Dick" when we pass each other in St Anne's Park in the mornings (I'm on the bike). He still goes at some speed too!

runsalot

Thanks for all the info lads.

RacoonQueen

robinph wrote: »

Nothing like sub3hrs, but just realised that in a couple of weeks I'll have done a marathon in 4 seperate decades.

Does that make you feel old? :pac:

robinph

RacoonQueen wrote: »

Does that make you feel old? :pac:

Now that you mention it.

I'm not as old as the 4 decades thing suggests though.

Hard Worker

Hard Worker wrote: »

Dick Hooper has run sub 2.30 in four decades. I have no doubt that he could run a sub 3 in training to make the five decades of sub 3. Only Dick knows if he will bother doing another one though. I might check with him and put him in the picture.

Just giving this a bump as Dick Hooper can now be added to the list. As part of the Raheny Shamrocks' Malin to Mizen, Dick ran 2.46.XX for his marathon leg. Considering he was sub 2.30 for the other 4 decades, that's great going.

El Caballo

May be a zombie bump but I found this thread a while back and liked the litte bit of Irish sporting history in it and came across this article today.

http://www.athleticsweekly.com/news/steve-smythe-record-span-sub-3-marathons-57715

No excuses for the auld lads and lassies, only 2 minutes slower at 58 than at 18:p

Pherekydes

El Caballo wrote: »

May be a zombie bump but I found this thread a while back and liked the litte bit of Irish sporting history in it and came across this article today.

http://www.athleticsweekly.com/news/steve-smythe-record-span-sub-3-marathons-57715

No excuses for the auld lads and lassies, only 2 minutes slower at 58 than at 18:p

Some achievement. I feel that I might be only 2 minutes slower at the same ages (58 in 2018), but at 400m.

martyboy48

El Caballo wrote: »

May be a zombie bump but I found this thread a while back and liked the litte bit of Irish sporting history in it and came across this article today.

http://www.athleticsweekly.com/news/steve-smythe-record-span-sub-3-marathons-57715

No excuses for the auld lads and lassies, only 2 minutes slower at 58 than at 18:p

It's nice to get zombie threads like this bumped up, was nice to read how a casual query developed in a friendly manner....

“I was lucky as for the first time in five years, I didn’t get injured in the build up,” Smythe said of his record run in Seville. “I ran 80 miles a week for over three months which isn’t a lot compared to what I used to do but is a lot after almost 50 years of running and over 40 years of doing at least one marathon every year."

Would love to know what he did in general back in the day...

He ran 2:56:21 in Seville (2:56:16 by chip) on Sunday, 40 years and almost 4 months after running a 2:54 on his marathon debut in Harlow in October 1976 at the age of 18.

Some debut :eek::eek:

Itziger

"Some debut"........ I dunno. I'd say there's loads of class club athletes who would do that time at that age with a bit of structured training. The bloke went on to run sub 2:30 so he had ability.

But the real reason I'm responding is to highlight the case of an old club partner of mine from WAY back in the day. His name is Derek Cooney, from Cork and he ran with St Finbarr's Athletic club. He was a good miler I think but he trained to do the Dublin marathon around 1978/9 - Was there a Dub marathon then???? (Maybe it was 1980, I was 15 that Summer and I was in good shape. almost for the last time in my athletics life). I remember going on a couple of his shorter training runs. If I was 15 and he would have been 18. It's all very, very hazy. I believe he went on to run 2:50 or so in the marathon but I'm damned if I can find any records of it. At the time in the club there were a few of his age who went to the USA on scholarships but Derek was a tiny bit behind that level. If anyone feels like investigating...........

ooter

Some achievement, I'd be happy to just do 1 in any decade.

28064212

El Caballo wrote: »

May be a zombie bump but I found this thread a while back and liked the litte bit of Irish sporting history in it and came across this article today.

http://www.athleticsweekly.com/news/steve-smythe-record-span-sub-3-marathons-57715

No excuses for the auld lads and lassies, only 2 minutes slower at 58 than at 18:p

That's nothing, try two minutes faster (over just 10-miles) at 55 than 18, despite winning the race at 18!

http://www.ballycottonrunning.com/ wrote:

There was a bit of family history about Aoife’s victory as she is a niece of Mary Sweeney of St Finbarr’s, winner of the first Ballycotton women’s race in 1979. Mary, now 55, is still running as well as ever and finished in a new course record for that age-group of 66:38 - over two minutes faster than she ran when winning this race 37 years ago.

Itziger

http://www.ballycottonrunning.com/
There was a bit of family history about Aoife’s victory as she is a niece of Mary Sweeney of St Finbarr’s, winner of the first Ballycotton women’s race in 1979. Mary, now 55, is still running as well as ever and finished in a new course record for that age-group of 66:38 - over two minutes faster than she ran when winning this race 37 years ago.


Hmmm, at that age she might know my friend Derek!!!

jimmy1672

Itziger wrote: »

But the real reason I'm responding is to highlight the case of an old club partner of mine from WAY back in the day. His name is Derek Cooney, from Cork and he ran with St Finbarr's Athletic club. He was a good miler I think but he trained to do the Dublin marathon around 1978/9 - Was there a Dub marathon then???? (Maybe it was 1980, I was 15 that Summer and I was in good shape. almost for the last time in my athletics life). I remember going on a couple of his shorter training runs. If I was 15 and he would have been 18. It's all very, very hazy. I believe he went on to run 2:50 or so in the marathon but I'm damned if I can find any records of it. At the time in the club there were a few of his age who went to the USA on scholarships but Derek was a tiny bit behind that level. If anyone feels like investigating...........

D Cooney 2:45 in 1981 Dublin Marathon?
http://sseairtricitydublinmarathon.ie/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/1981-Final.pdf

Itziger

Thanks Jimmy. Wow, I'm guessing that's my man. He would have been 19 probably by then. I have a feeling it was his one and only marathon. The club team held an Irish 4x400 or 4x1mile under age record for a while if I recall rightly - and as you can see I'm struggling bigly to remember anything. There was a lad with a Polish surname way before the major Polish migration to Ireland, in fact I believe he may have been a Dub this fella.Then there was a Tony something or other, whose Dad formed the original Eagle club in Cork, not sure they're directly related to the current Eagle club. They broke from the Barrs for whatever reason. One thing I recall super clearly is a track session one evening out in CIT. The star lad was just back from the States, literally off the plane that morning and a couple of them were doing 400's. I was 2 or 3 years younger (and a bit slower!!) so I think I did every second 400 of theirs. I held onto their tails till the last 50 metres or so each time until the last one when I passed the US based fella. Admittedly he must have been well shagged by then. The surname is dancing inside my head somewhere. That's like a different life now looking back. 36/37 years ago. Jeez.

Johnny_Fontane

jimmy1672 wrote: »

D Cooney 2:45 in 1981 Dublin Marathon?
http://sseairtricitydublinmarathon.ie/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/1981-Final.pdf

that remarkable when you look at the results from 1981. The guts of what looks like 50 Irish runners under 2.31. There isnt anywhere close to 50 runners (no mind Irish ) under 2.31 in 2016. 50th place ran 2.38 in 2016, 100th place (Geraghty ran 2.36 in 1981.

Am I missing something?

Myles Splitz

Johnny_Fontane wrote: »

that remarkable when you look at the results from 1981. The guts of what looks like 50 Irish runners under 2.31. There isnt anywhere close to 50 runners (no mind Irish ) under 2.31 in 2016. 50th place ran 2.38 in 2016, 100th place (Geraghty ran 2.36 in 1981.

Am I missing something?

There are a myriad of reasons as to why this has happened

Marathon running was not a mass participation "event" back then as much as it is today a few different reasons for the decline in times. The process has become secondary to the result of ticking off a marathon to the point no where for the general majority there is little distinction between a 3 and 5 hour marathon.

Back then for most part people were putting more training with much higher mileage being the norm, more manual labour in every day life meant stronger bodies to be able to support the workload.

People are becoming hyperspecialised in pinpointing effort based on watches and online training articles on how to get best bang for your buck from training that work ethic is being lost somewhat.

With high number of races abroad and domestic people depth of fields is proliferated and as a knock on affect bar is lower to do well in races without having to push yourself to the levels of old to still hit those positions.

Some will argue that course accuracy back then was lacking but to be honest the discrepancy here even in what I have seen on short courses is lacking as a full explanation.

28064212

Also there's far more choice now. Every runner doing a marathon in Ireland in 1981 would be doing it in Dublin. Now Rotterdam or Berlin are much more likely targets for someone chasing a 2:30 time

ooter

http://www.deadlinenews.co.uk/2017/02/22/runners-40-years-119-days-sub-three-hour-marathons-sets-world-record/