Student Union Expenses

CantGetNoSleep

In the thread on the Presidents expenses there are a lot of claims on SU expenses being 400k a year, 1.3m over 2 years etc

Just wondering what exactly the SU spends this money on?

I know they said they were going to give a breakdown of this at class council but surely the rest of the students deserve to have access to this too

I know a certain amount of this obviously goes on officers wages, which I feel are plenty for the work they do, but where is the rest of it going?

PhatPiggins

Going by the number of posts you've had on the topic you obviously feel passionate about the topic and anything SU related

Why not go down to the boole and find out for yourself?

thebigcheese22

Yeah, the phrase internet warrior comes to mind tbh

Class Council is open to everyone, if you were that desperate to find out last night than you should have come along. Obviously that would take effort and you'd have to listen to the explanation of all the expenses.

Also I think you claimed the expenses should be available to everyone, besides the SU 'geeks'. I actually gladly spent 4 hours at Council last night to represent my class, does that make me a 'geek'? :rolleyes:

invinciblePRSTV

Why can't the SU just publish their expenses online. Why should people have to attend meetings to find out? transparency and all that.

Oh and i believe forum rules dictate you attack the post and not the poster, to the 2 posters above me cop yourselves on!

Byron85

Can the list be acquired in general though, for example, by emailing someone within the S.U?

In fairness, if anyone knows the exact figures i'm not entirely sure why they haven't been posted. Whether or not someone went to the meeting last night is irrelevant.

PhatPiggins

invinciblePRSTV wrote: »

Why can't the SU just publish their expenses online. Why should people have to attend meetings to find out? transparency and all that.

Oh and i believe forum rules dictate you attack the post and not the poster, to the 2 posters above me cop yourselves on!

My question was politely put and merely a request for information.

I'm sorry if I upset you

Would you like a glass of milk?

invinciblePRSTV

PhatPiggins wrote: »

My question was politely put and merely a request for information.

Then why mention about how many posts the op had on the SU previously?

PhatPiggins wrote: »

Would you like a glass of milk?

Yawn your attempt at quirky humour fails.

PhatPiggins

invinciblePRSTV wrote: »

Then why mention about how many posts the op had on the SU previously?



Yawn your attempt at quirky humour fails.

Because it's a relevant factor i.e the poster feels deeply on the subject, then why not do something about rather then complain that it wasn't handed to him/her on a plate.

invinciblePRSTV

PhatPiggins wrote: »

Because it's a relevant factor i.e the poster feels deeply on the subject, then why not do something about rather then complain that it wasn't handed to him/her on a plate.

False logic tbh, OP asked a pertinent question and one i'd like to find out myself, just because he 'feels deeply' on the issue is irrelevant and boards seems as good a place as any to ask how this info can be obtained, speaking of which where in the Boole can such info be accessed seeing as you are in the know on these things?

PhatPiggins

invinciblePRSTV wrote: »

False logic tbh, OP asked a pertinent question and one i'd like to find out myself, just because he 'feels deeply' on the issue is irrelevant and boards seems as good a place as any to ask how this info can be obtained, speaking of which where in the Boole can such info be accessed seeing as you are in the know on these things?

There was a meeting in Boole 3 at 7 yesterday which the OP was made aware of.

His response:

I agree, should be published online rather than just presented to a few geeks at class council or whatever that **** is

No reason why they can't publish it on their shiny little website

I wandered down to this myself as I was curious. Should it be online absolutely.

Your right Boards is the perfect place to request info, but the OP might find that others will be quicker to answer his questions if didn't act like such a tool and actually bothered to find out something for himself. Which he could then turn aound and share with the rest of the forum, completing the circle blah,blah.

samf

Accounts for organisations are traditionally never published online, and are instead presented at an AGM for discussion (which is what was done last night). The main reason for this being that if they were published online, then many of you may have follow up questions, and who's going to answer them?

Last night each the accounts were fully broken down and any questions at the time were taken, as I said in the other thread ask your academic rep about the figures, if they were fulfilling their duty they should have been there last night and would be able to inform you of whatever you need to know. And none of you can say "no one knew about it", I told everyone about it yesterday in advance, not my fault you didnt care enough to go.

KnifeWRENCH

invinciblePRSTV wrote: »

Oh and i believe forum rules dictate you attack the post and not the poster, to the 2 posters above me cop yourselves on!

Forum rules also dictate that you're not allowed be a backseat moderator; if you have a problem with a post, report it.

Also, everyone keep this thread on topic. Less of the bitchiness/arguing please.

Byron85

samf wrote: »

Accounts for organisations are traditionally never published online, and are instead presented at an AGM for discussion (which is what was done last night). The main reason for this being that if they were published online, then many of you may have follow up questions, and who's going to answer them?

Last night each the accounts were fully broken down and any questions at the time were taken, as I said in the other thread ask your academic rep about the figures, if they were fulfilling their duty they should have been there last night and would be able to inform you of whatever you need to know. And none of you can say "no one knew about it", I told everyone about it yesterday in advance, not my fault you didnt care enough to go.

E-mails are easy to send and easy to reply to. It's really a lackadaisical excuse to use for the non publishing of the accounts online. The class reps etc aren't going to know the ins and outs of the accounts and the figures contained within. If the accounts are published online, or in some other format, that makes it easier for everyone to understand and figure out where money is being spent and on what.

samf

Right, but obviously to save multiple unnecessary email conversations explaining figures (surely this time could be put to better use) why not hold a public meeting with all the class reps and also open to anyone else that wishes to attend and go through the acounts and answer any queries? Thats what was done and those that were there got all the info

Byron85

samf wrote: »

Right, but obviously to save multiple unnecessary email conversations explaining figures (surely this time could be put to better use) why not hold a public meeting with all the class reps and also open to anyone else that wishes to attend and go through the acounts and answer any queries? Thats what was done and those that were there got all the info

Teflon anyone?

For the record I couldn't go as I have shingles.

Max001

samf wrote: »

Accounts for organisations are traditionally never published online, and are instead presented at an AGM for discussion (which is what was done last night). The main reason for this being that if they were published online, then many of you may have follow up questions, and who's going to answer them?

Last night each the accounts were fully broken down and any questions at the time were taken, as I said in the other thread ask your academic rep about the figures, if they were fulfilling their duty they should have been there last night and would be able to inform you of whatever you need to know. And none of you can say "no one knew about it", I told everyone about it yesterday in advance, not my fault you didnt care enough to go.

'Accounts for organisations are traditionally never published online' - Funnily enough, public representatives in most of the world's major democracies seem to manage online posting of expenses. Surely the
people who spent our money would have the intelligence to pre-empt
most questions.
'ask your academic rep about the figures' - As a research postgrad do I
even have one?
'not my fault you didn't care enough to go' - If you're referring to attending the Boole, I had no idea this took place and even if I did, it could easily be the case that I had a previous commitment...like work,
hospital, an evening course partly scored by attendance, was on a promise by Mary McAleese.......you get my drift.

Just because things have always been done a certain way, doesn't mean you shouldn't be open to change. Using an excuse including the word 'traditionally', is to my mind often a pretty poor excuse. Its the ahem, 21st century after all.....we bank, shop, have sex online......whats the hang-up
with posting accounts of where OUR money's been spent?

samf

Well fair enough look its nothing to do with me regardless, if you want it online then email the president and ask him to put it online.

My argument is just that it wouldnt have taken much to attend the meeting on it, and would have saved all this anxiety at them not being online.

Max001

Surely you could have live streamed or podcast the 'event'. Useful cure for insomnia maybe ?

samf

Funnily enough, public representatives in most of the world's major democracies seem to manage online posting of expenses. Surely the
people who spent our money would have the intelligence to pre-empt
most questions.

Just as a little aside, find me links for all the other universitities SU's accounts. Good luck.

As a research postgrad do I even have one?

Yes you should.

If you're referring to attending the Boole, I had no idea this took place and even if I did, it could easily be the case that I had a previous commitment.

I posted it yesterday afternoon and the meeting was also mentioned in an all students email. And sure you may have had prior commitments but I hardly think everyone on the boards had a good reason not to attend.

Surely you could have live streamed or podcast the 'event'.

Its not the oscars, believe it or not we figured if people wanted to go then they will and if not then they wont. Hindsight is great for suggesting things though isnt it.

Max001

samf wrote: »

Well fair enough look its nothing to do with me regardless, if you want it online then email the president and ask him to put it online.

My argument is just that it wouldnt have taken much to attend the meeting on it, and would have saved all this anxiety at them not being online.

According to the university's disability office there are 500 registered disabled students at UCC. I think some of them might take offence at your claim that 'it wouldn't have taken much to attend the meeting'.

There's no winning this argument, so why even try. Sooner the student body employs professionals to run the union the better. Then things like the FUBAR that was CampusPicnic wouldn't happen.

samf

Max001 wrote: »

According to the university's disability office there are 500 registered disabled students at UCC. I think some of them might take offence at your claim that 'it wouldn't have taken much to attend the meeting'.

I think you'll find the boole basement has adequate disability access, so no i dont think any of them would take offence.

There's no winning this argument, so why even try. Sooner the student body employs professionals to run the union the better. Then things like the FUBAR that was CampusPicnic wouldn't happen.

Presumably you ran for election this year so, right? Or are you one of those people who are never happy but do absolutely nothing whatsoever to change things?

Max001

samf wrote: »

Just as a little aside, find me links for all the other universitities SU's accounts. Good luck.

If the human race all had this attitude, we'd never have progressed beyond fire and sniffing each other's behinds. The rest of your points are equally facile, but to answer just one; most 12yr olds with an interest in IT would know how to set up a podcast which just about says it all about our SU.
Now....I have a date with Ms McAleese so I can spare you no more time today

keane2097

samf wrote: »

I think you'll find the boole basement has adequate disability access, so no i dont think any of them would take offence.


Presumably you ran for election this year so, right? Or are you one of those people who are never happy but do absolutely nothing whatsoever to change things?

You're being extremely defensive in responding to a very simple request that information that's already in the public domain be made available online so that the people who elected you (I assume you're a student union type since you seem to take so much offense to these matters being questioned) can peruse it at their leisure.

It comes across as extremely childish tbh.

Papa_Lazarou

I couldn't attend this even though i wanted to due to having four exams in the last three days of the week.

Could someone answer me this if it was mentioned on the night. How much money does the SU have in reserve(i.e money in an account somewhere) that has went unspent over the last few years? I've heard its quite a sizeable sum but its just something that has been said around.

samf

keane2097 wrote: »

You're being extremely defensive in responding to a very simple request that information that's already in the public domain be made available online so that the people who elected you (I assume you're a student union type since you seem to take so much offense to these matters being questioned) can peruse it at their leisure.

It comes across as extremely childish tbh.

Im a firm believer that if you're not happy about something, do something about it. I genuinely believe if anyone really cared about the su accounts they would have been at the public meeting last night, and those that didnt bother to go but still complain about not being able to see the accounts are just arguing for the sake of it. I have no ability to put the accounts online or whatever so theres no point in arguing with me about that.

samf

Papa_Lazarou wrote: »

I couldn't attend this even though i wanted to due to having four exams in the last three days of the week.

Could someone answer me this if it was mentioned on the night. How much money does the SU have in reserve(i.e money in an account somewhere) that has went unspent over the last few years? I've heard its quite a sizeable sum but its just something that has been said around.

I cant remember the exact figures, but no, there's no SU money in reserve, they roughly break even each year, there's rarely too much passed on from one year to the next, and this year with unseen events such as flooding etc the balance at the moment is in a small deficit. Anyway its not my place to discuss the accounts, sorry I cant be of more help.

keane2097

samf wrote: »

Im a firm believer that if you're not happy about something, do something about it. I genuinely believe if anyone really cared about the su accounts they would have been at the public meeting last night, and those that didnt bother to go but still complain about not being able to see the accounts are just arguing for the sake of it.

Are you part of the Student's Union?

If so you have an absolutely shocking attitude imo.

There are a million valid reasons why people could have missed the meeting last night.

It's a very simple request for people to make, and you act like they're all on a mission to pick a fight or something. Jokeshop tbh.

samf

Im only a part time officer and have absoutley nothing to do with the finances so theres nothing really I can do about the whole situation.

Byron85

keane2097 wrote: »

Are you part of the Student's Union?

If so you have an absolutely shocking attitude imo.

There are a million valid reasons why people could have missed the meeting last night.

It's a very simple request for people to make, and you act like they're all on a mission to pick a fight or something. Jokeshop tbh.

He's the Events Officer.

D'Agger

samf wrote: »

Just as a little aside, find me links for all the other universitities SU's accounts. Good luck.

No other university has done this so he can't post links.

Governments publishing of non-personal data is fairly new - did an assignment on it this year and it would help UCC greatly imo.

Why shouldn't UCC be the first university to do it?

Papa_Lazarou

I think some people need to take a valium or something and just get off the computer for a while...

I would like to have seen the accounts myself but wasn't able to make due to so much college work.I have plenty of questions i would like to have asked and all that but i got the chance and missed it. Don't know if this would work but maybe people could send an email to the finance officer(Dont know who it is) and they might give you a break down of the accounts and so on,or maybe they might allow you to arrange a meeting with them.

Aside wasn't part of Keith O'Briens manifesto that he would ensure all the SU accounts would be put into the public domain for the student body to see? Lets see if he does follow through with this next year.

keane2097

samf wrote: »

Im only a part time officer and have absoutley nothing to do with the finances so theres nothing really I can do about the whole situation.

You could start by taking a little less of a militant attitude towards people who make simple requests.

I would have thought you would be a little more supportive of people taking an interest tbh.

PhatPiggins

keane2097 wrote: »

Are you part of the Student's Union?

If so you have an absolutely shocking attitude imo.

There are a million valid reasons why people could have missed the meeting last night.

It's a very simple request for people to make, and you act like they're all on a mission to pick a fight or something. Jokeshop tbh.

He is and makes an effort to answer as many of the questions on here as possible despite many of them being badly put , the same questions over and over not to mention the personal abuse he recieves on a regular basis on here.

I'm not a SU supporter but at least Sam makes an effort.

Papa_Lazarou

keane2097 wrote: »

You could start by taking a little less of a militant attitude towards people who make simple requests.

I would have thought you would be a little more supportive of people taking an interest tbh.

Having read through his posts in this thread i don't think he is being militant at all. He's one of the few SU people tht come on here and try to deal as best he can with questions and problems. Even after all the shít he takes here he keeps coming back. Just lay off a bit bud...

samf

keane2097 wrote: »

You could start by taking a little less of a militant attitude towards people who make simple requests.

I would have thought you would be a little more supportive of people taking an interest tbh.

Im sorry if you think im being militant, im genuinely trying my best to answer peoples questions, its just the constant criticism is hard to put up with after a while (as you ight imagine), but if i wasnt trying to help i wouldnt have bothered posting on the subject. If I had the accounts i'd post them online for you all but being the lowly events officer I dont, so your best bet is probably calling into the office or emailing the president.

CantGetNoSleep

The fact that there are 36 replies in this thread shows that people have an interest, this should lead to information they wish to see being made available

The Boole holds around 400 I'd say max, and a lot of classes have no more lectures or don't know their academic class rep, so the truth is about 2% of the student population saw these accounts. The reasons for this? I dont know. Less people to complain maybe

There are usually 2 reasons for organisations not publishing accounts online. Commercially sensitive information or they are hiding all the perks, freebies or brown envelopes they get. I'm not saying the SU get any of these, but despite them thinking they are all little Obamas, I wouldnt call any of this information commercially sensitive, so don't see any reason why they can't publish it online

(sits and waits for a little SU lover to find something to give out about again)

December

Meeting Vs Posting the information online - mm I wonder which would have the greater number of people attending/viewing it?

But since the meeting already went ahead which not everyone could attend, and questions were answered etc, why would it be so difficult for them to write it up and post it online on their website?

They could make it easier on themselves and post it with perhaps a list of the questions (or FAQ) that were asked, with the answers - and any other relevant info. And if any new questions were asked, updating it would be as simple as clicking a button.

By doing this, it would reduce the amount of time the reps would have to spend answering the questions over and over and over again to people on an individual basis, via email/over the phone or replying to them on the boards.

So, yeah, the OP has a point... and imo using the technology we have is the way to go. Like another poster said, just because it's always been done that way doesn't mean it's right or effective.

Eliot Rosewater

CantGetNoSleep wrote: »

The reasons for this? I dont know. Less people to complain maybe

You actually have a pretty good position, but this kind of conspiratorial tone - that the SU are out to get us all for some unknown reason - totally weakens your argument.

CantGetNoSleep

Eliot Rosewater wrote: »

You actually have a pretty good position, but this kind of conspiratorial tone - that the SU are out to get us all for some unknown reason - totally weakens your argument.

I don't have that tone, I even said in my last post that they should publish the accounts to show that they have nothing to hide, rather than read them out in a room full of their friends. But no they seem to want to play along with the little conspiracy

Max001

Samf my little lowly Ents drone, if you took about a second to type 'online student union accounts' into google and if you waited patiently for another 0.26 seconds for google to show its results, scrolled down a little, for say another 0.5 seconds and clicked on Southampton University Student's Union Accounts For The Year.....why my Lord :eek:, you'd find a nice shiny pdf of......student union accounts.

Amateurs!

samf

If you didnt address me as a "lowly ents drone" and not called me a "f**king amateur", your point may warrant a reply but I have absolutely no reason to respond with that level of personal attacks.

Max001

Um, I did amend my post you'll notice and you referred to yourself as 'lowly', so yes, if you like, I'll retract drone......though I do feel it accurately represents the IQ level of at least some of the SU appointees this year and this is my opinion only and is not intended as an attack.

ReacherCreature

Max001 wrote: »

Samf my little lowly Ents drone, if you took about a second to type 'online student union accounts' into google and if you waited patiently for another 0.26 seconds for google to show its results, scrolled down a little, for say another 0.5 seconds and clicked on Southampton University Student's Union Accounts For The Year.....why my Lord :eek:, you'd find a nice shiny pdf of......student union accounts.

Amateurs!

Being terribly unfair there Max. Give Sam a break.

Max001

Samf, I've better things to do.....so yes....I am officially 'giving you a break'.

Its impossible to defend the indefencible though Samf, so if I was you, I'd not waste my time trying to defend this years SU office holders.

Bottom line....I feel incredibly sad, that so much money is wasted every year in the hands of well-meaning but clueless amateurs. However I'm now going to my 'happy place', ciao!

Papa_Lazarou

Max001 wrote: »

Um, I did amend my post you'll notice and you referred to yourself as 'lowly', so yes, if you like, I'll retract drone......though I do feel it accurately represents the IQ level of at least some of the SU appointees this year and this is my opinion only and is not intended as an attack.

Nova_era in disguise ???


:pac::pac:

maglite

So is the answer the Student Union will not post their accounts?


What is the official audit process? Is their not a finance officer in the SU?, who deals with the finances?

Max001

samf wrote: »

Just as a little aside, find me links for all the other universitities SU's accounts. Good luck.

Its not the oscars, believe it or not we figured if people wanted to go then they will and if not then they wont. Hindsight is great for suggesting things though isnt it.

Two points samf dahling. As previously stated, google Southampton Uni SU and you'll find SU online accounts. Took me bout um three seconds.
And as an aside, foresight is what you (bites his tongue, hard) SU people are gettin paid for!

Secondly, on CollegeRoad today you'll see NetSoc advertising their podcast. OMG :eek: I just had a brainwave, perhaps the SU could ask
someone in NetSoc to help you do a podcast. Hey, call me Einstein!

Lastly Samf, friendly advice, next time you plan to use your mouth/keyboard, try to engage brain first. You're not a great advert for your peers in the SU. Ahhhhhh feck it :rolleyes:, I just couldn't say that with a straight face!

tallaght01

These guys are often the politicians of the future.

Fook me, we're all screwed!!!

samf

Max001 wrote: »

And as an aside, foresight is what you (bites his tongue, hard) SU people are gettin paid for!

I'm not paid. Its a voluntary position.

try to engage brain first.

You really cant argue without personal attacks can you? So much for going to your "happy place".

Byron85

Might as well let you all know that I emailed the S.U requesting some information on the expenses as I missed the meeting in the Boole due to illness. I'm still waiting on a reply but i'll give it another day before I fire off another email.

Max001

No Samf, as one who was given the same advice more than once, it really was friendly advice.