Privatise the passport service

average_runner

This is the way forward, some service need to be privatised.

Permabear

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Barname

Do IT

do it now

Crush these malignant unions

Manach

Have we considered outsourcing to the Israelis. They seem to do an excellent job of producing Irish passports

Barname

Manach wrote: »

Have we considered outsourcing to the Israelis. They seem to do an excellent job of producing Irish passports

thats an old joke :rolleyes:

ei.sdraob

yes it should be privatized, i mentioned it in another thread before

BUT

there would still have to be some involvement from Dept Of Foreign Affairs who would have to control some core equipment like passport printers in order to ensure there is no fraud. last thing we need in light of the Mossad Saga in Dubai is wrong people getting passports

Barname

ei.sdraob wrote: »

there would still have to be some involvement from Dept Of Foreign Affairs who would have to control some core equipment like passport printers in order to ensure there is no fraud. last thing we need in light of the Mossad Saga in Dubai is wrong people getting passports

eh.. FF have sold Irish Passports in the past (ref Haughey et Reynolds)

I would be more inclined to trust a private company operating under fear of losing a contract than the CS or dirty politicians.

BeardyFunzo

it was, until recently, a good service. no need to privatise it. this is a knee jerk reaction to the industrial action.

I wouldn't like to see it privatised as I don't want to pay over the odds for a passport. Hell, we privatised a single bridge and we had to pay 600 million to get it back... not to mention all the lost productivity that probably would amount to multiples of that figure.

Andrew33

If you were born before 1949 you are entitled to a British passport and so are your kids!
Please form an orderly queue on Merrion Rd please.
I am so sick of this tin pot sh1thole country and public servants who won't serve, I nearly would apply for one.

Mrs. Delany

In fairly urgent need of a passport and had a quick look at the British Embassy website as I'm apparently ok for a British passport. Anyway, they appear to have outsourced passport provision and if you feel like enquiring about your passport over the phone it's 1.70stg per minute...

In the past the Passport Office here was excellent. I've had to get two "emergency" passports (i.e. left it too late to get it any other way) previously and both times were simple and fairly quick, just an hour or two hanging around the passport office which isn't much for such an important document.

I say give them something of a break.

DubiousV

Quite right, people are talking about privatisation like it's some sort of miracle cure. It would quite simply be making the problem worse in the short time and way more expensive in the long term. If you're curious about how the government handles tenders for contracts have a look at their e-tenders website. I have to say I'm saddened by the attitude of the public to this issue as well, baying for the staff at the passport office to be disciplined, have their pay slashed or be sacked. Do they not have the right to industrial action? I don't recall the taxi drivers actions being so viciously attacked. I suppose people are just gluttons for propaganda. Sad days indeed.

donkey balls

Mrs. Delany wrote: »

In fairly urgent need of a passport and had a quick look at the British Embassy website as I'm apparently ok for a British passport. Anyway, they appear to have outsourced passport provision and if you feel like enquiring about your passport over the phone it's 1.70stg per minute...

In the past the Passport Office here was excellent. I've had to get two "emergency" passports (i.e. left it too late to get it any other way) previously and both times were simple and fairly quick, just an hour or two hanging around the passport office which isn't much for such an important document.

I say give them something of a break.

think thats bad try getting a visa for the US they charged you 16e on your credit card just to arrange a visa interview and they outsourced it to a german company

Permabear

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thebullkf

BeardyFunzo wrote: »

it was, until recently, a good service. no need to privatise it. this is a knee jerk reaction to the industrial action.

I wouldn't like to see it privatised as I don't want to pay over the odds for a passport. Hell, we privatised a single bridge and we had to pay 600 million to get it back... not to mention all the lost productivity that probably would amount to multiples of that figure.

^^^^^

ditto.


plus-heard some wan on the new Kenny show askin the union rep to explain to her kids why they wouldn't get to spend easter in Disneyland......

incidentally she said she applied @ the start of march....

the "disneyland" tickets were a "xmas" present.

why the FOOK would anyone wait till till now to check passports???


its HER fault.

tell you what folks...if the unions ever disintegrate we'll be back in the bad ol' days...6 dayn weeks compulsory,etc etc

-no i'm not a union rep.
-no i'm not a fan/member of the public service

if 3 machines are all we have and 2 are broke...does that not imply that
the waiting time will increase by two thirds ???

thebullkf

donegalfella wrote: »

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so thats your solution?

"YOU DON'T LIKE IT....WE'LL GET SOMEONE ELSE TO DO IT?"

pppfffffffftttttt!

IrishTonyO

DubiousV wrote: »

Quite right, people are talking about privatisation like it's some sort of miracle cure. It would quite simply be making the problem worse in the short time and way more expensive in the long term. If you're curious about how the government handles tenders for contracts have a look at their e-tenders website. I have to say I'm saddened by the attitude of the public to this issue as well, baying for the staff at the passport office to be disciplined, have their pay slashed or be sacked. Do they not have the right to industrial action? I don't recall the taxi drivers actions being so viciously attacked. I suppose people are just gluttons for propaganda. Sad days indeed.

it's a bit different, refusing to do your core duties and still being paid is not work to rule it is a breach of your contract. Let them go on strike and unpaid if they want to take action.

johnnyskeleton

donegalfella wrote: »

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At the point at which an organisation performs a task of national security e.g. gardai, army.

Services to the public e.g. education, heath, transport etc can be privatised, and many of the auxiliary services provided to the government e.g. construction are privatied anyway.

What's important then is the control of these private organisations (particularly the tenders to them and the operational guidelines) and also marking the balance between efficiency and profitability on the one hand, and providing desireable but unprofitable services on the other.

Then the question is whether the comptrollers and overseers of these private companies should themselves be privatised and it starts to get a bit messy.

Ideally, keeping a balance between public and private ownership is key. You keep it in public ownership for the moment, but are open to tenders where, if a private company can do the job for cheaper without compromising on services, outsource it.

Stark

DubiousV wrote: »

Do they not have the right to industrial action? I don't recall the taxi drivers actions being so viciously attacked. I suppose people are just gluttons for propaganda. Sad days indeed.

They have the right to go on unpaid strike. They do not have the right to show up to work but refuse to do their jobs and still expected to get paid regardless.

BeardyFunzo

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

At the point at which an organisation performs a task of national security e.g. gardai, army.

Why stop there? There are such things are private armies.

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

Services to the public e.g. education, heath, transport etc can be privatised

and get ready to pay thru the hole for them.

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

What's important then is the control of these private organisations (particularly the tenders to them and the operational guidelines) and also marking the balance between efficiency and profitability on the one hand, and providing desireable but unprofitable services on the other.

All of what you say theoretically happened with the M50 toll. That went great didn't it?

Permabear

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doohan

Andrew33 wrote: »

If you were born before 1949 you are entitled to a British passport and so are your kids!
Please form an orderly queue on Merrion Rd please.
I am so sick of this tin pot sh1thole country and public servants who won't serve, I nearly would apply for one.

So I have been doing a bit of reading here

http://britishembassyinireland.fco.gov.uk/content/en/article/postie_passport_britsubjectdocs

and am I to understand that I am entitled to a British Passport because my Dad was born in April 1938 and my mam in April 1940??

Really? Is it that easy?

Stark

BeardyFunzo wrote:

All of what you say theoretically happened with the M50 toll. That went great didn't it?

The M50 toll is more expensive now that the toll bridge is owned by the Government.

The original M50 toll was a badly negotiated contract. Newer PPP contracts are much better value for money.

johnnyskeleton

BeardyFunzo wrote: »

Why stop there? There are such things are private armies.

Well I take it you are being facetious and don't really think armies should be privatised. Neither do I, hence I said that national security should not be privatised.

However, now that you mention it, why do we need such a large army. With 1000 we would have the same quality of public service as with the current 10,000.

BeardyFunzo wrote: »

and get ready to pay thru the hole for them.

If it is cheaper to privatise a service then do it. How does that involve paying more for them?

BeardyFunzo wrote: »

All of what you say theoretically happened with the M50 toll. That went great didn't it?

No it's not. the M50 toll was a government gimmie to a private consortium to provide capital that they didn't have. Completely different to seeking tenders to private companies to run e.g. the passport office within certain parameters at a lower cost than its current cost.

irishh_bob

Barname wrote: »

thats an old joke :rolleyes:

which keeps getting funnier every time i hear it

ardmacha

Newer PPP contracts are much better value for money.

Indeed. Yet in this era of deflation I don't see any reductions in tolls or tolls levies to achieve the same effect. If the government had taken the same attitude to its staff then there wouldn't be a strike.

Stark

The tolls are linked to the CPI. They don't have to respond immediately to falls in the CPI, but they're not allowed increase tolls again until the CPI is above the level it was before it fell.

BeardyFunzo

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

If it is cheaper to privatise a service then do it. How does that involve paying more for them?

Initally it may be cheaper but costs will work their way up and we'll have to pay more and more. I refer you back to the M50.

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

No it's not. the M50 toll was a government gimmie to a private consortium to provide capital that they didn't have. Completely different to seeking tenders to private companies to run e.g. the passport office within certain parameters at a lower cost than its current cost.

There were parameters in place to ensure that the M50 didn't become backlogged which were quickly ignored. Look, there may be areas that could be privatised but I wouldn't trust this government to do it.

thebullkf

donegalfella wrote: »

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eh....****e talk.

is it choice you want?

the option to go somewhere else to get your passport?

thats not what you implied.

you implied that they should be relieved of their duties.

different thing altogether.

"we" won't do anything.

"we" are Sheep
being royally shafted left right and centre by far more important things than a delay @ the passport office.

eg

unemployment
Banking crisis.
Health
schools
etc
etc
etc..

privatisatio doesn't always work either.

if dublin bus is privatised i bet me bollix the darndale,ballymun, and other high risk area's will be withdrawn from service.

cos they don't make money...yet theservice is still provided...(@ a loss)






sometimes the devil you know is better than the devil you don't.

BeardyFunzo

Stark wrote: »

The M50 toll is more expensive now that the toll bridge is owned by the Government.

The original M50 toll was a badly negotiated contract. Newer PPP contracts are much better value for money.

More expensive because they are recouping the 600 million it had to pay to get a damned bridge back.

Again I wouldn't trust this government making such deals.

IrishTonyO

BeardyFunzo wrote: »

Initally it may be cheaper but costs will work their way up and we'll have to pay more and more. I refer you back to the M50.

Yes compare the M50 on top of paying 600 million to get it back the tolls are now higher when it is public sector than when it was a private company running it.

BeardyFunzo

Stark wrote: »

The tolls are linked to the CPI. They don't have to respond immediately to falls in the CPI, but they're not allowed increase tolls again until the CPI is above the level it was before it fell.

A fine argument against privatisation as this kind of deal would probably be commonplace- you'll never have to lower your prices in the bad times but you'll be able to raise them in the good. reminds me of upward only rent reviews.

poppyvalley

ah! there was a time...not too long ago when you guys in the private sector would look down your noses and SH!TE on the public sector. your just a bunch of whinging whining begrudgers

danman

BeardyFunzo wrote: »

A fine argument against privatisation as this kind of deal would probably be commonplace- you'll never have to lower your prices in the bad times but you'll be able to raise them in the good. reminds me of upward only rent reviews.

change the word "prices" for "wages" and you have just answered the question being asked here by private sector workers.

It seems like it is ok for PS wages to increase during good times, but bad if they decrease during bad times.

This is a strange argument to make.

BeardyFunzo

danman wrote: »

change the word "prices" for "wages" and you have just answered the question being asked here by private sector workers.

It seems like it is ok for PS wages to increase during good times, but bad if they decrease during bad times.

This is a strange argument to make.

I'm happy enough with the cuts that have been made to my wages. So good times wages up, bad times wages down. no problem here.

Yours is a strange argument to make.

Permabear

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thebman

thebullkf wrote: »

if dublin bus is privatised i bet me bollix the darndale,ballymun, and other high risk area's will be withdrawn from service.

Maybe it might turn up when its supposed to timetabled to or alert passengers of delays or have reasonable fares.

Pros and cons to everything. Passport service could easily be privatised from what I can see.

Better the devil you know is not a good argument and doesn't even make any sense. If that was how we made decisions, we'd never change anything.

thebullkf

donegalfella wrote: »

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you didn't actually......you said it now!



monopoly supplier:rolleyes:

abrogating freedom

gimme a break ffs.

they're exercising their right to strike over what they see as unfairness.

you have a valid point,as do i.;)

my main gripe is with the many****wits who didn't/haven't checked their passports prior to bookin holidays and are now whining cos there's a dispute on...{betcha anything people are double checking now:p}

its a bit irish.


i have no link with the passport office people or PS at all,in fact i worked as a contractor for the state telecoms company and saw first hand the lazy incompetent dinosaurs that inhabit it and also the damage
their union has wreaked in the process BUT i don't think sacking these people is a democratic solution....where does it stop if its allowed???


sure we've the likes of jim mcdaid only getting a 2 year ban for DD.

(and being re-elected!!)...

{dukes and the anglo ireland crowd giving pay rises....

bertie giving pay rises before he left office=hush money??

30,000 x-rays-tallaght hospital ..}

i could go on.......


while ordinary folk face jail for non payment of a ****in TV licence!!

there's cosy cartels all over this island-

maybe this is the answer:rolleyes:


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1258841/North-Korean-Pak-Nam-Ki-executed-ruining-countrys-financial-affairs.html


i dunno the solution to this that would appease to all sides but one lives in hope.

thebullkf

thebman wrote: »

Maybe it might turn up when its supposed to timetabled to or alert passengers of delays or have reasonable fares.}

---very rarely have i missed a bus due to it not turning up.
i think 2 euro into town is reasonable enough,6e for the nitelink is a bargain:rolleyes:

{Pros and cons to everything. Passport service could easily be privatised from what I can see.}
maybe it could...you think they'll never have industrial action??
whens the last time it was hassle gettin a passport or havin to wait this long....

remember two thirds of the machines are out of order/or where.



Better the devil you know is not a good argument and doesn't even make any sense. If that was how we made decisions, we'd never change anything.

it worked fine until a few weeks ago:rolleyes:

i'm not saying never change.

i'm saying -Stop.

take a breath.

see both sides.



thats all:D

maybe you'd rather see it privatised?

i wouldn't .

Liam Byrne

average_runner wrote: »

This is the way forward, some service need to be privatised.

Yeah - that worked SO well with eircom and bin services and Aer Lingus, where we end up paying too much for essential services because some shareholders want to make a profit.

Capt'n Midnight

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

Services to the public e.g. education, heath, transport etc can be privatised,

If you look at the US you will see that's a license to print money.

Look at the M50 bridge. it cost £30 million , the government and EU spent £300 million on the public road leading up to it. It then cost us another €690 million and we still have to pay tolls on it. How many school pre-fabs could you have bought for that :mad:

Private enterprise cherry picks.

Capt'n Midnight

What % has PAYE revenue fallen by ?

Bearing in mind that pubic sector PAYE hasn't been affected as much , what is the % fall in PAYE revenue from private sector workers.

Now apply benchmarking to the public sector factoring in the % of private sector employees that have lost their jobs as well as the reduction in wages of those still in employment.



Be interesting to hear how the Aer Lingus cabin crew who are under the threat of only getting statutory redundancy feel about these dogs in the manger.




Oh yeah , passport express has an advertised turnaround time so customers have a right to expect stated times.

Kensington

poppyvalley wrote: »

ah! there was a time...not too long ago when you guys in the private sector would look down your noses and SH!TE on the public sector. your just a bunch of whinging whining begrudgers

Perhaps then, you could explain why, even at the peak of the boom, many public service recruitment drives attracted hundreds of applicants for a handful of positions, if it was as poorly regarded as you claim?

thebullkf

this has been going on a year now.....the gov. calledtheir bluff.

only they weren't bluffing.


even the media this morning weren't giving a fair crack to the union guy on RTE Radio 1---

its always about the public suffering never the employee-

i've some sympathyfor people queueing,not being able to go on hols.

some are genuine,i'd guess most just never bothered their ar$e to check theirpassports andnow there's uproar.

its not about passports its about the cost of labour and the systematic lowering of wages.

its disgusting.

how much did we give the banks?

how much are the top 30 people in each bank earning a week??

prob 3 months dole .. EACH

not a word from the "outraged" public.

don't get me wrong i'm all for helping out--if its a 2way street,but its been proven some of these fcukers are on TEN times the average industrial wage...

and its the average industrial wage thats paying it!!!

its disgusting and depressing.

i say to the ordinary joe's ... stick to your guns.

don't give in.

Stark

Article here: http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/0325/breaking31.html

Interesting that despite complaints about being understaffed and overworked, the unions have been blocking the recruitment of people.

Permabear

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MagicSean

donegalfella wrote: »

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Don't see them chaining themselves to any doors that's for sure.

LoanShark

I agreed with the idea of privatization..But leave the front line services (nurses,guards etc.) alone.. Fire the pen pushers on friday and re-hire them on monday under new contracts and conditions..

Stark

I don't particularly care for the "pen pusher" vs "frontliner" attitude myself. As we've seen here, "pen pushing" can be just as important as wiping a patient's arse or collecting speeding fines, despite what sections eager to deflect cuts elsewhere would have you believe. Though obviously, privatising the passport offices is a lot more viable an idea than privatising the police force (despite the potential coolness factor of having robotic police officers in the future ).

thebullkf

[QUOTE=donegalfella;65078472]Oh, my heart bleeds for the "suffering" in the public sector. What pain these poor workers have to endure, with their 25 percent pay premiums, guaranteed pensions, and redundancy-proof jobs.]

give it a rest, PS pay was/is sh1te money,and a lot of it is boring repetitive work.-
what do you work @?

why didn't you join the PS if its so good?

smacks of jealousy and begrudgery.:rolleyes:



[Systematic lowering? :rolleyes: Public-sector wages increased by 67 percent between 1999 and 2006. ]


From what to what though??? what was the average PS wage back then?

bear in mind chippies,sparks,plumbers were earning 80k + in the same years.

chrissakes a labourer on a building site was earning up to 17e an hour!!!!

its approx 35k for an unskilled,pair of hands,didn't require english,refs. or even garda clearance.

a mate (ish) of mine works in the Revenue .....his salary?

23k a year.......in ten years it'll be 40k probably ..

you ask ANYONE in 2006 would they do 40hrs p/w for that money and they'd laugh at you.


In 2006, Mark Fielding, chief executive of the Irish Small and Medium Enterprises Association, noting that public-sector wages had reached 90 percent above the average in the SME sector, stated: "Benchmarking is one of the greatest scams foisted on the Irish people by the public sector, aided and abetted by the weak-kneed Government and a compliant IBEC, ravaging the public finances, without a thought for the economy."

Mr. Fielding was correct. And we are now paying the price for that scam. The true debate is not about whether public-sector workers should have their pay cut now; the real point is that they never should have received these lavish increases at all.







Really? You've somehow managed to miss the many other threads on here complaining about state support of the banks?[/QUOTE]

smacks of begrudgery.:rolleyes:

get over it.;)

thebullkf

LoanShark wrote: »

I agreed with the idea of privatization..But leave the front line services (nurses,guards etc.) alone.. Fire the pen pushers on friday and re-hire them on monday under new contracts and conditions..

great idea.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

never mind loyalty,rights,equality.:eek:

ffs:mad:

Stark

thebulkf wrote:

a mate (ish) of mine works in the Revenue .....his salary?

23k a year.......in ten years it'll be 40k probably ..

What's his position?