16yr old refusing to go to school

LegacyUser

Hi
hopefully someone has experience in this and can help me - apologies for long post..

I have a 16yr old daughter in her 4th year in secondary school, not surprisingly she failed her junior cert - was a bit bothered and promised to make effort in 4th year to prepare for the leaving cert.

Since she started secondary school her attendance in school is appalling, i can honestly say it's a battle every single schoolday to get her to go to school... it's hit and miss with her.. mostly miss - Every day it's the same... at this stage after 4yrs of this battle to get her to go, even do homework - she refuses and there's a battle - nothing works with her - i'm both physically and mentally drained from the early morning battles everyday - i have tried everything... talking/explaining the consequences of having no qualifications; gone to the school and talked to teachers with her- taken all her privilages/phone/ even took the quilt off her bed - even threatened her with boarding school; tried appealing to her good nature that the school can ring social services and i will get into serious trouble if she doesn't attend school.. Nothing works... she doesn't care - she says she's sick - i've taken her to doctors - they found nothing physically wrong with her. She can be extremely abusive and hurtful; has even attacked me on occasion - I seperated from her father 9yrs ago and every argument we have she blames the break up - then she says she's depressed i've booked counselling for her - and she attended a couple of sessions but gave up as she didn't relate to counsellor so i got another and same story - refused to go... and so on. I have even tried reverse psychology and let her off - but she seem's to love this.. would prefer to stay in bed all day and up all night.

I've told her today that if she won't even make the effort she can go and live with her dad as i can't do this anymore. (they have a very volatile relationship)

I went to the school last week again and explained what's going on... they spoke to her aswell and explained that it's very serious - and that she need's her education - she agreed she'd make the effort at least and they said they'd help her catch up... but the very next day she refused to go and and hasn't been in since she refuses to go - this is the 47th school day this year she has missed - i've spent 1.5hrs trying to get her to go. All i'm getting is abuse name calling.

I've tried to get her father to talk to her.. she refuses to answer his call's/texts. I've tried family members and she's same with them... says "i'm sick" "i didn't sleep last nite"..... and then blames me for ruining her life....

I guess what i'm asking here... what can i do? is there a truancy officer or something i can contact to scare her into it or something? I can't stand by and let her throw away her future...

She says i don't care but i have tried everything to help her.. but how can u keep trying if someone is battling you all the way and will do Nothing to help themselves?

Thanks for taking time to read

Please help?

Nevyn

Start taking away her privileges.
Bring her to an appointment with one of the local youth out reach officers.
Find a new counselor for her and for you to help you cope.
You need to stop letting her press your emotional buttons.

Is her Dad still in her life?
Does he have any influence?

me_right_one

Do this:



That was an everyday occurance in my house, and other people's houses during the 80's, for things as simple as talking out of turn. Now I can count the number of school days I missed on one hand.

seanybiker

A few years back when my father was a guard he called to one gir friends house (his friend asked him to) and gave the son a good stern talking to. Dont know what he said but it worked.
Call into your local station and explain your problem to the JLO and see if he/she could help you out. Its worth a shot.

LegacyUser

Thaedydal wrote: »

Start taking away her privileges.
Bring her to an appointment with one of the local youth out reach officers.
Find a new counselor for her and for you to help you cope.
You need to stop letting her press your emotional buttons.

Is her Dad still in her life?
Does he have any influence?

Hi Thaedydal,
thanks for reply,

in total i've book appointments with 5 different counsellors - she point blank refuses to go in. (i can't physically drag her in.. she's bigger/stronger than me)

her dad is around but not much - he's also very abusive to me.. he doesn't do much to help us - i've gotten him to talk to her and she agree's she'll make the effort - tells him what he wants to hear but comes home to me and it's same thing everyday.

I've taken everything from her. she's happy to lay in bed all day and go without

thanks for response

LegacyUser

seanybiker wrote: »

A few years back when my father was a guard he called to one gir friends house (his friend asked him to) and gave the son a good stern talking to. Dont know what he said but it worked.
Call into your local station and explain your problem to the JLO and see if he/she could help you out. Its worth a shot.

my sister has suggested this to me also.. i am ringing them today - thought they wouldn't get involved but it's worth a shot..

thanks

Slydice

I'd say it's impossible to offer decent advice on this thread.

All I see is: daughter bad, daughter problem, daughter this, daughter that...

with this hidden in the middle: oh and I broke up with her dad when she was 7

I reckon you're describing the results of something else or maybe she just magically decided out of no where to stop going to school.

More background to your story might get you better advice.

Also, if you don't know what is/has happened that is resulting in yer daughter mitching school, then I think that should be something you try and find out... unless of course... something magical happened.

Otherwise all I see happening is someone going: Oh look, a problem exists and I don't know what it is, I'll fix it by throwing bandages around the results rather than try and find out or fix the actual problem.

Nevyn

me_right_one Do not advocate violence or child about on this forum ever!
There is a zero tolerance policy for trolls next time you will just be banned outright.

Nevyn

In fairness Slydice it looks like the daughter is using the fact that her parents split up as a reason to blame all her woes on and to abuse her mother. She's 16 and needs to learn that life isn't fair and she can't just stay in bed cos she doesn't like her life and blame her mother.

Have you any other adults who are in her life who can talk to her.

Give that she is just staying in bed all day, I would be taking her to the dr or call the dr to the house, if there is a chance it is a medical issue. If that is the case then at least it is happening in 4th year rather then when she is in the leaving cert program.
Start with the dr.

Have you done any parenting classes yourself?
Would you consider going to your local health clinic to chat to the socail workers there and see what supports they can offer for you both?

LegacyUser

Slydice wrote: »

I'd say it's impossible to offer decent advice on this thread.

All I see is: daughter bad, daughter problem, daughter this, daughter that...

with this hidden in the middle: oh and I broke up with her dad when she was 7

I reckon you're describing the results of something else or maybe she just magically decided out of no where to stop going to school.

More background to your story might get you better advice.

Also, if you don't know what is/has happened that is resulting in yer daughter mitching school, then I think that should be something you try and find out... unless of course... something magical happened.

Otherwise all I see happening is someone going: Oh look, a problem exists and I don't know what it is, I'll fix it by throwing bandages around the results rather than try and find out or fix the actual problem.

Dear Slydice,

You have completely misread / or failed to read properly - but prefer to make assumptions?
Your comment :- "All I see is: daughter bad, daughter problem, daughter this, daughter that..." - is offencive and so completely wrong. How can you make this about me using this as a "bandage" rather than finding out what the problem is. as i said i have tried talking to her - taken her to family mediation/ numerous counsellors - close family her friends have spoken to her - I've sat down with her and asked her and got her to open up to me - and it's the same thing.. she has no interest in school - there is no issue of bullying etc she has lots of friends there - Also the only reason the break up was even mentioned was because my daughter throws that in my face. Nothing "Magical" as you put it, happened. That's the background there in a nutshell.

LegacyUser

Thaedydal wrote: »

In fairness Slydice it looks like the daughter is using the fact that her parents split up as a reason to blame all her woes on and to abuse her mother. She's 16 and needs to learn that life isn't fair and she can't just stay in bed cos she doesn't like her life and blame her mother.

Have you any other adults who are in her life who can talk to her.

Give that she is just staying in bed all day, I would be taking her to the dr or call the dr to the house, if there is a chance it is a medical issue. If that is the case then at least it is happening in 4th year rather then when she is in the leaving cert program.
Start with the dr.

Have you done any parenting classes yourself?
Would you consider going to your local health clinic to chat to the socail workers there and see what supports they can offer for you both?

Hi,
thanks for that - that's exactly how it is. I brought her to the doctor last thursday - he has checked everything - bloods, full medical check up. just awaiting the results of thyroid now... but everything came back clear. I myself thought it may be depression or something.. but he's reluctant to give medication to someone so young and i agree, he also recommended revisiting counselling but she told him also she doesn't need it. All of my family have spoken to her aswell - but to no avail.

I haven't tried parenting classes myself - its certainly something i will look into today. I will also try the social worker and JLO - but i fear it'll be same thing as in the past - she'll tell them what they want to hear but won't go

But thank you for taking time to read the post and seeing the situation as it actually is

Little My

Just thought I'd reply as I went through something very similar when I was at school. When I was 16 I was supposed to be sitting my GCSE's in May and I dropped out of school in Feb.

I had appointments with the principle and it was all 'oh we want to see you back in your uniform next week' and I point blank refused to go. I said I'd sit my exams and I did, and didn't actually do too badly given that I hadn't been in school for 4 months.

There were problems at home which were probably affecting me more than I realised, and I hated the culture of the school. It was a very cliquey all-girls school. I was bullied a bit in junior school, but at the time I just thought no one liked me so it was my own fault. Some teachers were really good and gave friends the notes to give me, some didn't.

Another thing was that I was convinced I was going to do really badly in the exams, so just didn't really see the point of trying. I went as far as applying to secretarial courses as I thought I was going to fail anyway and wouldn't be able to sit my A-Levels.

When it turned out I did okay in my exams, I was delighted and agreed to go back to the same school for my A-Level's, and in hindsight this was the biggest mistake I made. It was obvious I wasn't happy at the school, so why I went back I don’t know.

But it meant that during my two years of A-Levels I was averaging 40% attendance. I made friends out of school and had no interest in going, and it just got worse and worse. I had 3 teachers, 1 who was very supportive, 1 who wouldn’t have known if I was there or not, and 1 who reacted in a way which made it even harder for me to go.

When I did go, she would make lots of sarcastic remarks; 'nice to see you here today', 'did you find your way in okay or did you need a map?' and if I answered questions in class correctly it would be 'see how much you can learn when you bother to show up?' etc.

So it turned into a horrible spiral of not going, then not going because of what she would say. She even accused me of skipping classes with one of the girls who bullied me a little (she had v.bad attendance too - the days were bound to overlap!)

So, back to your daughter.

You can't make her go to school, you can encourage her to go, but you can't make her. Try to see if there are any problems at school with other kids or teachers. Consider changing schools - it would have helped me a lot I think as I would have had to prove myself to new teachers.

I was very active in my youth club and learned a lot from it. Does she have interests and hobbies out of school?

The other thing is that while getting a good education at school is the easiest way to do it, it is not the only way. There will always be opportunities to go back or do courses.

Just to let you know, despite doing only ok in my GCSE's and pretty poorly in my A-Levels, I still went on to uni and did pretty well, and I am now considering applying for a Phd.

Just thought I'd add in that I had battles every day with my mother, but she couldn't physically force me to go. She went as far as calling the police in the morning when I wouldn't go. That didn't work either.

Slydice

Thaedydal wrote: »

In fairness Slydice it looks like the daughter is using the fact that her parents split up as a reason to blame all her woes on and to abuse her mother. She's 16 and needs to learn that life isn't fair and she can't just stay in bed cos she doesn't like her life and blame her mother.

Well if that's the case, then best of luck working with the rule of:
life ain't fair
and then thinking that you can fix something:
because it's not fair

I'm think that making sure you know what the actual problem is and sorting that out would probably go a long way towards helping the situation.

Nevyn

Slydice wrote: »

Well if that's the case, then best of luck working with the rule of:
life ain't fair
and then thinking that you can fix something:
because it's not fair

Oh please, it's more the fact that there are things which can't be changed,
those have to be accepted and the things which can be changed worked on
rather then focusing on things which can't.

You can waste time and energy bitching about the hand that life had dealt you or you can do you best with what you have.

WorriedMom wrote: »

Hi,
thanks for that - that's exactly how it is. I brought her to the doctor last thursday - he has checked everything - bloods, full medical check up. just awaiting the results of thyroid now... but everything came back clear. I myself thought it may be depression or something.. but he's reluctant to give medication to someone so young and i agree, he also recommended revisiting counselling but she told him also she doesn't need it. All of my family have spoken to her aswell - but to no avail.

I understand his reluctance and there are frankly sod all mental health services for those who are under 18 but that being said it's not something which should be over looked due to hoping it isn't the case. I have know teens who ended up in very dire situations which could have been prevented due to lack of early invention.

WorriedMom wrote: »

I haven't tried parenting classes myself - its certainly something i will look into today. I will also try the social worker and JLO - but i fear it'll be same thing as in the past - she'll tell them what they want to hear but won't go

But thank you for taking time to read the post and seeing the situation as it actually is

You need support while dealing with this so you have to look to access that for you as well as what supports are there for her.

Little My

One other thing I would say...

Encourage hobbies and a social life. If she is happy in life outside school it might tip the balance to allow her to put up with or even start enjoying school.

Make sure she is aware of the alternatives of not going to school. Not just by telling her, but by getting the prospectus and lists of courses in your area so she can see for herself. Maybe encourage applying for summer work?

If she realises the courses and jobs she would like to do are not open to someone without junior / leaving cert she might be able to motivate herself a little more.

I know school/offical certs are seen as the be all and end all of everything, but they aren't. I know plenty of people who didn't get the certs and have found their own way and have very happy lives.

Slydice

Thaedydal wrote: »

Oh please, it's more the fact that there are things which can't be changed,
those have to be accepted and the things which can be changed worked on
rather then focusing on things which can't.

You can waste time and energy bitching about the hand that life had dealt you or you can do you best with what you have.

Yeah and you can waste a bunch more time fixing something which isn't broken than taking some time out to find out the actual problem and fixing that.

dark crystal

WorriedMom wrote: »

Hi
hopefully someone has experience in this and can help me - apologies for long post..

I have a 16yr old daughter in her 4th year in secondary school, not surprisingly she failed her junior cert - was a bit bothered and promised to make effort in 4th year to prepare for the leaving cert.

Since she started secondary school her attendance in school is appalling, i can honestly say it's a battle every single schoolday to get her to go to school... it's hit and miss with her.. mostly miss - Every day it's the same... at this stage after 4yrs of this battle to get her to go, even do homework - she refuses and there's a battle - nothing works with her - i'm both physically and mentally drained from the early morning battles everyday - i have tried everything... talking/explaining the consequences of having no qualifications; gone to the school and talked to teachers with her- taken all her privilages/phone/ even took the quilt off her bed - even threatened her with boarding school; tried appealing to her good nature that the school can ring social services and i will get into serious trouble if she doesn't attend school.. Nothing works... she doesn't care - she says she's sick - i've taken her to doctors - they found nothing physically wrong with her. She can be extremely abusive and hurtful; has even attacked me on occasion - I seperated from her father 9yrs ago and every argument we have she blames the break up - then she says she's depressed i've booked counselling for her - and she attended a couple of sessions but gave up as she didn't relate to counsellor so i got another and same story - refused to go... and so on. I have even tried reverse psychology and let her off - but she seem's to love this.. would prefer to stay in bed all day and up all night.

I've told her today that if she won't even make the effort she can go and live with her dad as i can't do this anymore. (they have a very volatile relationship)

I went to the school last week again and explained what's going on... they spoke to her aswell and explained that it's very serious - and that she need's her education - she agreed she'd make the effort at least and they said they'd help her catch up... but the very next day she refused to go and and hasn't been in since she refuses to go - this is the 47th school day this year she has missed - i've spent 1.5hrs trying to get her to go. All i'm getting is abuse name calling.

I've tried to get her father to talk to her.. she refuses to answer his call's/texts. I've tried family members and she's same with them... says "i'm sick" "i didn't sleep last nite"..... and then blames me for ruining her life....

I guess what i'm asking here... what can i do? is there a truancy officer or something i can contact to scare her into it or something? I can't stand by and let her throw away her future...

She says i don't care but i have tried everything to help her.. but how can u keep trying if someone is battling you all the way and will do Nothing to help themselves?

Thanks for taking time to read

Please help?

You poor thing - my heart goes out to you, it really does.

I was in a very similar situation with my daughter, who's 15, but thankfully she seems back on track now, thank God. Not perfect by any means, but much better than it was.

Myself and her father, who are seperated but still get on very well, took the hard line with her and told her we could do no more and if her attitude didn't change fast, we would have to look at putting her into foster care. We then called social services and arranged for a counciller to have a chat with her. She only went once, but it did seem to do the trick.
If your daughter refuses to go to councilling, you could always ask a social worker or perhaps a community liaison garda out to your home to have a chat with her.

Have you tried Parentline? Even if they can't help with your daughter, they can be a tremendeous support to yourself.

Best of luck to you.

Slydice

WorriedMom wrote: »

Dear Slydice,

You have completely misread / or failed to read properly - but prefer to make assumptions?
Your comment :- "All I see is: daughter bad, daughter problem, daughter this, daughter that..." - is offencive and so completely wrong. How can you make this about me using this as a "bandage" rather than finding out what the problem is. as i said i have tried talking to her - taken her to family mediation/ numerous counsellors - close family her friends have spoken to her - I've sat down with her and asked her and got her to open up to me - and it's the same thing.. she has no interest in school - there is no issue of bullying etc she has lots of friends there - Also the only reason the break up was even mentioned was because my daughter throws that in my face. Nothing "Magical" as you put it, happened. That's the background there in a nutshell.

right so, are you saying the problem is your relationship breakup with her dad?

if so, then I think sorting that out with her might get you better results than trying to sort out her school with her.

if not, then I'd say it'd help with the discussions about school later, something like the difference between:
you: argument about going to school
her: argument about the breakup
you: argument about going to school
her: argument about the breakup
you: argument about going to school
her: argument about the breakup
etc...

versus
you: argument about going to school
her: argument about going to school
you: argument about going to school
her: argument about going to school
you: argument about going to school
her: argument about going to school

do you see how one has something that isn't about school in it?

SLUSK

Take her to an area with many addicts, prostitutes and so on and show her what her future could be like if she does not change her ways. Find a way to scare her straight.

LegacyUser

Slydice wrote: »

right so, are you saying the problem is your relationship breakup with her dad?

if so, then I think sorting that out with her might get you better results than trying to sort out her school with her.

if not, then I'd say it'd help with the discussions about school later, something like the difference between:
you: argument about going to school
her: argument about the breakup
you: argument about going to school
her: argument about the breakup
you: argument about going to school
her: argument about the breakup
etc...

versus
you: argument about going to school
her: argument about going to school
you: argument about going to school
her: argument about going to school
you: argument about going to school
her: argument about going to school

do you see how one has something that isn't about school in it?

Dear Slydice,

With respect ... are you even reading my posts? - I did not say my relationship with her dad is the problem - my relationship with her dad is completely irrelevant to this. the breakup is not the issue here. If anything My daughter and i live better lives since the break up. My daughter only uses this as an excuse for her behaviour when i comes to not going to school and the argument that follows - the rest of the time it's not an issue.

Nevyn

Slydice enough already, she has said she is addressing that issues or has been trying to get the daughter to address that issue with counselling, she isn't ignoring it and badgering her about it isn't helpful.

Do you have anything constructive to suggest?

LegacyUser

Thaedydal wrote: »

Slydice enough already, she has said she is addressing that issues or has been trying to get the daughter to address that issue with counselling, she isn't ignoring it and badgering her about it isn't helpful.

Do you have anything constructive to suggest?

thank u

Slydice

Thaedydal, in light of your post and that:
I'm not a parent
You're the moderator
I thought I was being constructive

I'll stop posting on this thread. Best of luck with it.

Phibsboro

I would second the change of school idea - especially with a natural break for LC cycle coming up. If you can afford it and you are in Dublin maybe even get her into somewhere like the institute where there is a more "adult" approach to 5th/6th. Its not something I would have recommended before tbh (I always thought of the students as slightly brattish ) but I know someone who couldn't get into the leaving at all and the institute worked wonders for him.

Beyond that, is she into sport at all? If I look back to my own youth I think the one thing I regret is not having a sporty hobby. I jog now and the difference it makes in my life is amazing. It would be especially good at breaking the stay in bed all day/up all night habit. Try to get her out jogging with you - maybe aim to do a fun run together before the summer. If you can't jog yourself, there are a number of techniques to get started (e.g. http://www.c25k.com/) - I couldn't jog for 100m when I started a couple of years ago

Doing an active sport clears the head, paradoxically gives you more energy and improves your self esteem as you make progress. Doing it together with your daughter also allows a natural opportunity for conversation.

Good luck

c

me_right_one

Slydice wrote: »

I'd say it's impossible to offer decent advice on this thread

Thats for sure! A bit of tough love is all you need, and if you dont dish it out, then your child's failings are your fault

LegacyUser

Phibsboro wrote: »

I would second the change of school idea - especially with a natural break for LC cycle coming up. If you can afford it and you are in Dublin maybe even get her into somewhere like the institute where there is a more "adult" approach to 5th/6th. Its not something I would have recommended before tbh (I always thought of the students as slightly brattish ) but I know someone who couldn't get into the leaving at all and the institute worked wonders for him.

Beyond that, is she into sport at all? If I look back to my own youth I think the one thing I regret is not having a sporty hobby. I jog now and the difference it makes in my life is amazing. It would be especially good at breaking the stay in bed all day/up all night habit. Try to get her out jogging with you - maybe aim to do a fun run together before the summer. If you can't jog yourself, there are a number of techniques to get started (e.g. http://www.c25k.com/) - I couldn't jog for 100m when I started a couple of years ago

Doing an active sport clears the head, paradoxically gives you more energy and improves your self esteem as you make progress. Doing it together with your daughter also allows a natural opportunity for conversation.

Good luck

c

hi,
yes, she plays camogie (is just back training now) and plays football also. I've suggested changing schools to her but this she completely shoots down; she says she's lots of friends there. I don't live in dublin, but that said - i think it's a good idea to change the environment and maybe try and get her into an alternative form of learning like you suggested.

Ash.J.Williams

I think not having a Junior cert and heading towards no leaving cert means that school is not suitable. Has she any idea what she would like to do? Unfortunately Most vocasional training requires junior cert. I know people who brought their kids to drug rehab clinics and homeless shelters to show them the horrors of what can happen when you fall out of the system, (which sadly is what's happening). Personally i would have got my ass kicked and would have accepted that to be honest.
I cannot focus on academic work at all, i have failed at all attempts at a degree (not actually failed but lost interest) but knew what i wanted to do and just went and did it. To do that the kid must have a clear goal.
Having been though the system i felt that some kids i was in school with were wasting their time (and others through disruption) and should have been encouraged to take up a training course and do something more interesting.
Right now the worst thing possible that can happen is to fail school and not have a backup plan. That always end bad. WHat would she like to do?

Nevyn

me_right_one wrote: »

Thats for sure! A bit of tough love is all you need, and if you dont dish it out, then your child's failings are your fault

me_right_one had been banned from the forum for trolling.
This forum is a supportive place for parents and their remarks
and statements about children need to be physically abused are not welcome here.
This forum has a zero troll tolerance policy.

flynnlives

Take away all allowances, pc, internet, tv, take them outta the house if needs be.

go and ask the biggest burly Garda you can find to call to your house and have a sturn talking too. If that fails follow it up quickly with the foster care angle. Short sharp wake up calls are the only way to get to her.

If that all fails well its off to work you go, shes 16, she can get a job, if your not gonna go to school your not gonna ly in bed all day, take away her allowances and tell her if she wants to live in your house she has to pay rent and pay her way.

She has alot of anger directed towards you, i reckon she blames you for the fact that her dad is not in the house. I could be totally wrong tho. Its just a thought.

zuppycool

hi felt I had to reply to this, had a very simular situation with my daughter same thing wouldnt go to school and there wasnt any real reason for it just total lack of interest. In the end I think she was using school as a tool as it was the one thing that she had real control over and knew how mad it made me that she wouldnt go. But the maddder I got the more she dug her heals in.
I tried moving her school but couldnt get her in anywhere but the fact that i tried seemed to work with her and she realised that she had no option but to stick with that one I also did a parenting course and that helped with me not flying off the handle so quickly but its really hard when your trying to get out to work and get other kids to school and they start this
shes still not great but goes most of the time and if she starts i just say fine but you know you wont be going outside for the rest of the week if you dont and she knows i mean it
I really do sympathise with you and hope you work something out for your own sanity

silja

I think a new school may well help, too. You mention in your first post that you threatened her with boarding school... maybe it should become a reality. Not as a punishment, but because a break from eachother during the week may just be what you both need, and boarding schools are used to dealing with teenagers and have lots of study time in the evening to help her catch up.

Cavehill Red

So much so, I went and got my log in after years of absence so that I could post a response to this thread.
One poster reasonably suggested pursuing the core problem. And was flamed for it by the moderator.
Another suggested tough love (with no reference to physical chastisement that I could discern) and got banned by the moderator.
I wonder to what degree the moderator is inhibiting debate here so that their own (in my view, pretty poor) advice is the only advice on offer.
To the OP: I got custody of my child at the age of 13, at a time when she'd refused to attend school at all for four months.
I was in a different area, so there was of course a new school and a new surroundings. They do help a bit, in that they remove surface antagonists (I don't like that teacher, that bully, etc).
But they didn't solve the problem. I did.
My child's mother had little control in her own life, and therefore was unable to create a climate of stability in her offspring's. I dealt with this via a comprehensive system of implementing self-discipline (doing chores for pocket money, cooking her own breakfast, basic money management and saving, keeping her room and clothes clean, etc.)
With a reward-based system, positive behaviour is reinforced. OP, you've gone down the opposite direction of giving in to everything, which leads to confrontation when you finally reach issues you literally cannot allow to slide, such as education.
Whatever the moderator might think, tough love IS the answer and it is the only one. It requires loving them but being tough with them so that they learn the basic lessons of life. It also requires being a role model, which goes double for parents of the same gender as the child.
To clarify: the tough love I gave my child never involved any form of abuse. I've never had to lift my hand to her in my life, and rarely even raised my voice.
Initially it wasn't easy. I had to undo her natural resistance to authority figures. I had to demonstrate I really did have her best interests at heart and also that I was prepared to face down anything and anyone, including herself, if it was in her best interests.
That requires patience, as you will have to face down teen stubbornness. It also requires an almost zen ability to remain calm in the face of intense provocation.
At 16, it's almost too late. But the child is still likely desperately in need of a stable environment.
I'd start by discussing her expectations of life, and of her life now. I'd start comparing that to reality, and if necessary demonstrating reality - take her out on a day trip, show her the dole queues, the junkies, the streetwalkers. Show her the courts, the cop station, the A+E, the wet shelters.
I'd remind her that her best way up and out is education. I'd offer to hold her hand and help her. She likely wants to do well in life, but simply doesn't know how.
That will involve hard deadlines, clear penalties for failure, no moral judgements just encouragement to do better at all times, but a rigid implementation of any penalties.
What sort of penalties? Take her phone at weekends or block it to all but certain numbers, or stop paying the bill. Lock her out of the house during school hours.
Stop cleaning her clothes and linen. Stop cooking for her. With all of these, offer to assist, but insist that she does them. And as I said, reward good behaviour to reinforce it.
What's clear is that your daughter is protesting about something vehemently, and it is now essential that you find out what that is and deal with her protest adequately and effectively.
That may well involve taking a lot of blame for your relationship with her father. But you can't expect a child to take responsibilities if you as their parent and role model duck them. So whatever they're protesting, you need to get to the bottom of it, and make amends.
I loathe my ex-partner, for how she screwed up her life and nearly did the same to my daughter. But I am obliged to remain positive and respectful to her for my daughter's behalf, because to do otherwise would undermine the example I am setting for her.
Bottom line: talk to her about what she's angry about and accept it, even if you don't like what you hear, and follow through by doing whatever you promise to change things.
In return, offer her a deal that she changes to, with a series of responsibilities linked to rewards and punishments, that you'll help her with, so that she can attain what she's capable of to the best of her abilities.
In very short: tough love, as previously said.

littlebitdull

We have had this self same situation with our son - now 19 - for the past four /five years. We have days when nothing we do or say will get him up out of that bed. We have taken away privilidges, phones, computer time... pocket money - everything we can think of. We have tried rewards - extra pocket money for attending school. Tried just spending extra time with him. We have done parenting courses. And at this stage there is nothing physical we can do to get him up, he is bigger than both of us.

I would love to be able to give you the answer, to say there is light at the end of the tunnel. But we are still in that tunnel. It darkens our house.

We too have tried everything we can think of - most weeks he has reduced pocket money. But he seems to prefer to stay in the bed than have money for a pint of a saturday night!

We have no home issues - so in a way I think its unfair of anyone to assume that your problem comes from there. We have a very stable and secure marrage, and while we are not rolling in money we have no worries there either.

Some posters have focused in on your situation - with her father being gone as the core issue. But in my opinion its not always the answer - just a convienent bandwagon to jump on. Sure sometimes it is the answer - but its not always. Sometimes even in a secure household - you can have a child who will not go to school or has other problems. Sometimes its not always the parent who is wrong - sometimes the problem can actually lie with the child/teenager.

It does however sound to me like she is suffering from a form of depression - you describe her health issues and it ticks most of the boxes. Some times medication is needed to help cure this - just as with other illnesses. You have tried the non-meds route - perhaps its time to give science a try.

Best of luck ... honestly !

Cavehill Red

With due respect, you do have a home issue. You have a young man who is sleeping his life away in your house.
In your case, probably only the enforcement of responsibilities is likely to have any effect at this time. He is, after all, an adult.
Kick him out of the house unless he gets up and leaves it at the same time you do, not returning until the same time you do. Take the house key off him. Demand he sign on and sign over his money in lieu of rent.
If someone is spending all day everyday in bed, they possibly are significantly depressed.
But if they're simply ducking chores and responsibilities while they get up and go out when it suits them to do so (such as the pub) then the likelihood is that they are not suffering a medical condition.

Khannie

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Another suggested tough love (with no reference to physical chastisement that I could discern) and got banned by the moderator.

You didn't see the original link that he posted as the moderator (rightly) removed it. I think you need to get down off that high horse. If you have a problem with moderation, I'd suggest you take it to feedback.

edit: So you have the facts, this is the post that was edited (you can see that at the bottom of the post). The link was to a very violent clip of a parent beating their child. The user who was banned was very clearly trolling, was warned and told not to do it again, then did it again. Easy ban decision.

littleoulme

I'd make her get a job if she is not going to school and pay half the bills. Tough Love. Does she get on with her father? Would he stand for it if she was "Hypothetically speaking" told that she would have to go and live with him?

Cavehill Red

Khannie wrote: »

You didn't see the original link that he posted as the moderator (rightly) removed it. I think you need to get down off that high horse. If you have a problem with moderation, I'd suggest you take it to feedback.

I was referring to merightone's post which shows no evidence of anything having been added or removed.
I have a problem with someone promoting a particular piece of advice to the OP while blocking other voices from being heard.
If I wanted a single person's opinion about something I'd go ask a friend. If I wanted general advice from other parents, then I'd open a discussion as the OP had.
I think it's clear the OP is seeking a variety of opinions on this, and I think it's important the OP receives that.
You can have your high horse back, clearly you need it much more than I do.

LegacyUser

littleoulme wrote: »

I'd make her get a job if she is not going to school and pay half the bills. Tough Love. Does she get on with her father? Would he stand for it if she was "Hypothetically speaking" told that she would have to go and live with him?

Hi,
I've thought of that too.. he wouldn't stand for it (nor do i think she'd pull this stunt with him) but i am worried that if it is indeed depression or something that the last thing she need's is me forcing her to live with her dad as i said their relationship is extremely volatile - i would be worried if that would have an adverse affect on her if there is an underlying issue like depression or something.

@ redhill cave - thank you for taking time to post your thoughts and opinion on my issue - however, I think the moderator was correct in banning poster that posted a link promoting a child being beaten

Khannie

Cavehill Red wrote: »

I was referring to merightone's post which shows no evidence of anything having been added or removed.

This will be my final response to this in thread. me_right_one was a troll and got banned for it having been warned earlier in the thread and having posted up extremely violent content. That you are referring to a post which was not edited is irrelevant. He was trolling, got warned, deliberately ignored the warning then got banned.

If you have a problem with the moderation of this thread, bring it to feedback or go through the dispute resolution process. Do not post about it again in this thread. It is not appropriate to do so (on any thread in any forum, but I am being leniant since you are new).

Cavehill Red

I'm familiar with the phenomenon whereby people seek personal reinforcement under the guise of asking for advice.
Generally, the difference between the two can be discerned by whether the person engages with all the advice they receive or just that which reinforces their existing personal position.
It's becoming clear that views dissenting from 'You're not to blame!' are not to be tolerated in this discussion. Sadly, usually the parents ARE to blame, by omission, or neglect, or failure to convey a clear set of behaviours and ethics in what is often a complex and confusing world for young people.
I can't believe people who are suggesting that the parenting style needs to change here are being badgered and silenced, while others with no apparent medical skills are being permitted to diagnose depression in the absence of the 'patient' and prescribe serious medication!
If the OP genuinely wants to resolve the situation they described, then they have a lot of work to do, but it is possible.
If they just want to feel better about not resolving the situation, then I've no doubt there will be those to provide them all the 'support' they need with that.

Vodkat

I was similar to your daughter when i was 16. I refused to get up in the mornings. I never did my homework and i had an extremely poor attendance record. My background has some similar qualities as your daughters. My parents never married and my father was constantly in and out of our home. I wrote a diary and can count 16 times he left us. My mom is highly educated and had an extremely well paid job, until she had to retire early due to ill health. I have completely changed since i was 16, im now 21 and repeating my leaving cert so i can go to college and study midwifery. I hope i can help your daughter to understand what shes doing to her future and you're relationship.

The reason i believe i refused to go to school and get up when told is because i wanted to take some control of my life. I couldn't control whether my dad stayed or left. I had to watch my mom suffer an illness that i couldn't help. So i felt the need to control something and that was my education.

My Mom was tired of arguing and having to fight with me every day. She came up with a plan with the help of the schools guidance counselor. she wrote up a realistic list of house rules. There were 4. She kept them simple. She got me to sign a contract to obey the rules. And she explained what was to happen if i broke the rules. She called it the ''3 strike rule''. If i was to break the rules once she would deny my privileges: she stopped trying to get me up, she stopped doing my washing, she stopped cooking my dinner, she stopped my pocket money even, she took my phone off me and she ignored me. She said i didnt respect her so she wont respect me. i was told if i wanted dinner to cook it myself, And if i wanted to skip school then i would have to get a job because i would have to pay for my clothes etc, She explained that if i was to leave school then she wouldnt be getting a childrens allowance so therefore she would have no money to support me. For three days she refused to speak to me. She explained that my behaviour wont be tolerated in our home, she explained that i breached the rules of our contract and she was disappointed. Then during those three days i broke another rule I stayed out passed 12 i think. I returned to a locked house and there was a note on the door saying that she had pitched a tent in the garden for me and left out a sleeping bag. she said that if i didnt appreciate the warm bedroom that she provided for me then i dont deserve it. I was Furious. I know this sounds drastic. The next day she opened the door in the morning and had breakfast and tea left on the table. She sat down and we had a heart to heart. She said she understands why im so mad all the time and she says that she really wants to help me. She asked me what career i would like to have and what do i see my future being like? we both researched the paths that i could take to achieve what i wanted. And she was offering to get school grinds if i needed them. Eventually i began going back to school. She never thanked me... she said if she did then i would have seen that i was doing it for her not me. So she told me she was proud instead. I was glad that i was making her proud. I know repeating now but i had missed out on so much i didnt get the results i wanted so i took two years out to work and save so i could financially support myself when i decided to go back. I have soooooo much control over my life now and I have matured. I hope this helps your situation and if your daughter took a look at the post maybe that could help! If she needs someone who understands whats going on PM me i would love to help if possible, If she wants to chat!!

LegacyUser

Cavehill Red wrote: »

I'm familiar with the phenomenon whereby people seek personal reinforcement under the guise of asking for advice.
Generally, the difference between the two can be discerned by whether the person engages with all the advice they receive or just that which reinforces their existing personal position.
It's becoming clear that views dissenting from 'You're not to blame!' are not to be tolerated in this discussion. Sadly, usually the parents ARE to blame, by omission, or neglect, or failure to convey a clear set of behaviours and ethics in what is often a complex and confusing world for young people.
I can't believe people who are suggesting that the parenting style needs to change here are being badgered and silenced, while others with no apparent medical skills are being permitted to diagnose depression in the absence of the 'patient' and prescribe serious medication!
If the OP genuinely wants to resolve the situation they described, then they have a lot of work to do, but it is possible.
If they just want to feel better about not resolving the situation, then I've no doubt there will be those to provide them all the 'support' they need with that.

Just because I have not engaged with all posts does not reinforce my personal position or belief that i am "not to blame" - i feel it's not a "blame game" and would rather put my energy's into helping my child as best i can - I am taking on board ALL suggestions & comments people, including you, have taken time to post.

However, I believe your comments about the people being "silenced" or "badgered" are completely unfounded and unhelpful.

gagiteebo

Hi OP,

Reading through your posts it sounds like you are doing everything possible for your daughter and it is obvious you love and care for her very much so she is very lucky to have you I know that is of little consolation to you right now.

You spoke in your first post about boarding school. I am a teacher in an all boys' boarding school and I would really say to you to not send her to one in your current situation. The majority of the boys do not like being at boarding school and they are very angry about this as they feel they are being abandoned. This is taken out on teachers and other staff so really what you would be doing is shifting the problem to someone else. While it may not seem like it, she is better off with you at the moment.

The advice about the gardai is a good one imo. Also there have been a couple of boys at school who went completely off the rails and their parents took them out of boarding school and sent them to one of those bootcamps. I think there's a programme on telly at the minute Anyway they worked wonders and the boys changed completely and they were in far worse situations than your daughter. Maybe this is something you could consider?

Besf of luck

AvaKinder

OP -
I was going to PM but I since you're unreg I will post.#

I'm really sorry but I haven't had a chance to read the whole thread.
From your post, it's sounds like your daughter is very like me. I just wanted to say to you that although I understand using sending her to live with her father as a threat, I too had a volatile relationship with my father and when my mother used this as a threat it always made me feel ten times worse.

So please don't use sending to her to her fathers as a threat for bad behaviour. It's rarely effective, as you've seen, and often it makes the child feel even more miserable.

Cavehill Red

WorriedMom wrote: »

Just because I have not engaged with all posts does not reinforce my personal position or belief that i am "not to blame" - i feel it's not a "blame game" and would rather put my energy's into helping my child as best i can - I am taking on board ALL suggestions & comments people, including you, have taken time to post.

However, I believe your comments about the people being "silenced" or "badgered" are completely unfounded and unhelpful.

If you don't identify the cause of her problems and address that, then you are unlikely to help your child as best as you can.
Children don't act up as you describe for the craic. It's almost always the culmination of a long process of events and incidents that leads them to feel trapped in their protest behaviour of last resort.
And parents are never exempt from having contributed to that, as they are the most formative influences on any child.
Your child won't change if you won't change. That's not playing a blame game - it's being brave enough to pursue the problem right to its root and resolve it fundamentally.
Anyhow, you seem disinterested in what I have to say, even though I have previously resolved exactly this problem. Perhaps Vodkakat's contribution, which echoes mine from the child's perspective, may have more impact.
I have been badgered on this thread. So you can't tell me my feeling is unfounded. It's certainly been unhelpful, because I stepped into this thread with the sole intention of offering a potentially useful perspective and a proven strategy that works on this exact issue to you. I doubt I'll bother again.
I wish you the best of luck. If you're not prepared to speak to your child and get at the cause of her problems and address those, whatever they may be, then luck's all you're left with.

Nevyn

The site rules state no attacking the posters, and don't be a dick.
The forum rules state civil posting and being respectfull and suportive of other parents.
The site rules also state do not argue about moderation actions on the forum.
This is the last warning in this thread, ban will be just hand out after this.
If anyone has a complaint the can pm the mods or the cat mods about it.

LegacyUser

Cavehill Red wrote: »

If you don't identify the cause of her problems and address that, then you are unlikely to help your child as best as you can.
Children don't act up as you describe for the craic. It's almost always the culmination of a long process of events and incidents that leads them to feel trapped in their protest behaviour of last resort.
And parents are never exempt from having contributed to that, as they are the most formative influences on any child.
Your child won't change if you won't change. That's not playing a blame game - it's being brave enough to pursue the problem right to its root and resolve it fundamentally.
Anyhow, you seem disinterested in what I have to say, even though I have previously resolved exactly this problem. Perhaps Vodkakat's contribution, which echoes mine from the child's perspective, may have more impact.
I have been badgered on this thread. So you can't tell me my feeling is unfounded. It's certainly been unhelpful, because I stepped into this thread with the sole intention of offering a potentially useful perspective and a proven strategy that works on this exact issue to you. I doubt I'll bother again.
I wish you the best of luck. If you're not prepared to speak to your child and get at the cause of her problems and address those, whatever they may be, then luck's all you're left with.

I never said i was not prepared to speak to my child??? i have done nothing but talk to her about this at length and gotton professionals involved also. So Please stop twisting the facts.

As far as blame goes - You said parents are to blame - i merely said at this stage i don't feel its a about who's to blame - i wanted advice on how to help her, however, you have gone off topic on more than one occasion i.e... the moderators were out of order - and now You are being badgered? and say i am disinterested in what you have to say? i'll repeat again to you - i have taken your opinion/experience on board - but will not entertain or respond your off topic remarks either. thank you for sharing your experience on the matter.

LegacyUser

Vodkat wrote: »

I was similar to your daughter when i was 16. I refused to get up in the mornings. I never did my homework and i had an extremely poor attendance record. My background has some similar qualities as your daughters. My parents never married and my father was constantly in and out of our home. I wrote a diary and can count 16 times he left us. My mom is highly educated and had an extremely well paid job, until she had to retire early due to ill health. I have completely changed since i was 16, im now 21 and repeating my leaving cert so i can go to college and study midwifery. I hope i can help your daughter to understand what shes doing to her future and you're relationship.

The reason i believe i refused to go to school and get up when told is because i wanted to take some control of my life. I couldn't control whether my dad stayed or left. I had to watch my mom suffer an illness that i couldn't help. So i felt the need to control something and that was my education.

My Mom was tired of arguing and having to fight with me every day. She came up with a plan with the help of the schools guidance counselor. she wrote up a realistic list of house rules. There were 4. She kept them simple. She got me to sign a contract to obey the rules. And she explained what was to happen if i broke the rules. She called it the ''3 strike rule''. If i was to break the rules once she would deny my privileges: she stopped trying to get me up, she stopped doing my washing, she stopped cooking my dinner, she stopped my pocket money even, she took my phone off me and she ignored me. She said i didnt respect her so she wont respect me. i was told if i wanted dinner to cook it myself, And if i wanted to skip school then i would have to get a job because i would have to pay for my clothes etc, She explained that if i was to leave school then she wouldnt be getting a childrens allowance so therefore she would have no money to support me. For three days she refused to speak to me. She explained that my behaviour wont be tolerated in our home, she explained that i breached the rules of our contract and she was disappointed. Then during those three days i broke another rule I stayed out passed 12 i think. I returned to a locked house and there was a note on the door saying that she had pitched a tent in the garden for me and left out a sleeping bag. she said that if i didnt appreciate the warm bedroom that she provided for me then i dont deserve it. I was Furious. I know this sounds drastic. The next day she opened the door in the morning and had breakfast and tea left on the table. She sat down and we had a heart to heart. She said she understands why im so mad all the time and she says that she really wants to help me. She asked me what career i would like to have and what do i see my future being like? we both researched the paths that i could take to achieve what i wanted. And she was offering to get school grinds if i needed them. Eventually i began going back to school. She never thanked me... she said if she did then i would have seen that i was doing it for her not me. So she told me she was proud instead. I was glad that i was making her proud. I know repeating now but i had missed out on so much i didnt get the results i wanted so i took two years out to work and save so i could financially support myself when i decided to go back. I have soooooo much control over my life now and I have matured. I hope this helps your situation and if your daughter took a look at the post maybe that could help! If she needs someone who understands whats going on PM me i would love to help if possible, If she wants to chat!!

Hi Vodkat,
thank you for sharing this; and for the offer of my daughter to PM you - however, we are unregistered so this is not possible as yet, Your mom must be so proud of you and well done for turning it around...
best regards

LegacyUser

gagiteebo wrote: »

Hi OP,

Reading through your posts it sounds like you are doing everything possible for your daughter and it is obvious you love and care for her very much so she is very lucky to have you I know that is of little consolation to you right now.

You spoke in your first post about boarding school. I am a teacher in an all boys' boarding school and I would really say to you to not send her to one in your current situation. The majority of the boys do not like being at boarding school and they are very angry about this as they feel they are being abandoned. This is taken out on teachers and other staff so really what you would be doing is shifting the problem to someone else. While it may not seem like it, she is better off with you at the moment.

The advice about the gardai is a good one imo. Also there have been a couple of boys at school who went completely off the rails and their parents took them out of boarding school and sent them to one of those bootcamps. I think there's a programme on telly at the minute Anyway they worked wonders and the boys changed completely and they were in far worse situations than your daughter. Maybe this is something you could consider?

Besf of luck

Hi,
thanks for your response - that's a very good point about boarding school - i didn't think of it as shifting the problem onto the teachers tbh - i was thinking more like she'd have no choice but to go to class - and once her grades came up it'd be an incentive for her to continue.

I was watching that programme "teen's in the wild" also with my daughter. Are there bootcamps like that around?

I've rang the Junior Liason Officer and am waiting for them to call me back.

Cavehill Red

One last time, just for fun then.
I said: "If you're not prepared to speak to your child and get at the cause of her problems and address those, whatever they may be..."
Sure you've spoken to her. But you haven't got at the fundamental causes of her behaviour and addressed them, because otherwise her behaviour would have changed.
You used the word 'blame'. I prefer the word 'responsible', because it's more accurate and less emotive. You are responsible for your child's behaviour morally, ethically and even in part legally.
If the behaviour is wrong, or dysfunctional, then it is your responsibility to resolve it. If that involves accepting responsibility for your share in whatever has led to this, then that's what it takes to put the child back on track.
Once again, I wish you the best of luck. You will need it.
But by way of encouragement, I would tell you that my child managed a decent junior cert, hasn't missed school in a year, and was recently awarded for contributions to Young Social Innovator and Young Scientist projects.
And that all came despite two years of mostly missed school and four solid months of non-attendance before she entered my custody.
So no situation cannot be resolved. But it's a lot harder unless someone stands up and takes responsibility for the situation and then leads by example.
Or of course, there are meds and bootcamps if you don't want the responsibility.

tfitzgerald

seanybiker wrote: »

A few years back when my father was a guard he called to one gir friends house (his friend asked him to) and gave the son a good stern talking to. Dont know what he said but it worked.
Call into your local station and explain your problem to the JLO and see if he/she could help you out. Its worth a shot.

i actually did this when i discovered my 14 year old thought she was pregnant by another 14year old and the garda laughed at me and told me she was bold and in the real world i would not bother them with this sort of problem i have since taking her to a group called youth reach and she seems to have calmed down a bit at least the abuse been thrown around the house has