Leo Varadkers outrageous outburst in the Dáil

like Dr Garret FitzGerald in tripling the national debt and effectively destroying the country.
Mr Varadkar suggested the Taoiseach should 'enjoy writing boring articles in The Irish Times' in a few years time - an apparent reference to Dr FitzGerald.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0324/politics.html

He should have shown better judgment than using that kind of vitriol in my opinion.
It's also historical revisionism that Goebbels would have been proud of,and has píssed off a lot of his colleagues in FG.

And to think I thought Varadkar was one of the cleverer ones.
I don't now.
Garret Fitzgerald in my opinion is and was a 1000 times better a politician and thinker than Cowen could ever be.

My opinion of Mr Varadkar has gone way down sadly after that childish outburst.

Biggins

I suspect he is his own worst enemy.
In trying to gain notoriety, he's sacrificing any credibility he might have.

Stench Blossoms

Whatever about slagging off the opposition but to slag off your previous leader?

The mind boggles.

Was never a huge fan of Varadkers and I reckon his colleagues won't be either now.

Tim Robbins

An incredible thing to say; the mind can only wonder why he said what he said. I was a big fan of Leo V but you'd have to question him now.

P. Breathnach

Deleted User wrote: »

... My opinion of Mr Varadkar has gone way down sadly after that childish outburst.

Mine hasn't.

bmaxi

Deleted User wrote: »

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0324/politics.html


Garret Fitzgerald in my opinion is and was a 1000 times better a politician and thinker than Cowen could ever be.

.

That's not setting the bar very high for Garrett, who I think was a genuine politician but not a great one.

gandalf

I hope he is penning his most grovelling apology letter to Garret Fitzgerald.

How Varadkar could compare a statesman of the stature of Dr Garret Fitzgerald to that buffoon Cowan is beyond comprehension.

Anonymous1987

He has constantly attempted to show that he is not part of the previous Fine Gael incarnations stating that previous policy is not a matter for him and wants to draw the line that he is part of a "new" Fine Gael. Having said that it's a bit over the top to deride a former leader as wrecking the economy when he was actually not too bad.

Meeja Ireland

Fitzgerald is romanticised out of all proportion by a lot of people, but this is still a very strange thing for Varadkar to have done. He attacks an opposing politician by saying, essentially "You are not worthy of the great figures of your own party; you're more like one of our idiots."

The predictable result? All the heat today is on Fine Gael, while Fianna Fail get a break.

Can anyone explain it? It sounds like an internal debate within Fine Gael may have spilled over into the public arena.

anymore

Deleted User wrote: »

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0324/politics.html

He should have shown better judgment than using that kind of vitriol in my opinion.
It's also historical revisionism that Goebbels would have been proud of,and has píssed off a lot of his colleagues in FG.

And to think I thought Varadkar was one of the cleverer ones.
I don't now.
Garret Fitzgerald in my opinion is and was a 1000 times better a politician and thinker than Cowen could ever be.

My opinion of Mr Varadkar has gone way down sadly after that childish outburst.

How can you talk of childish outbursts when you introduce ' Gobbels' into your thread opener ?
Rather typical melodrama that ignores the fact that if Fitzgeralds high tax philosophy had been fololwed the Cetic Tiger would have been still born.
Fitzgerald followed Haughey's example in taking handouts from the bank's after his disastrous foray into the stockmarket and this handout aslo cost the taxpayer money given that the banks wrote off the handout against tax.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garret_FitzGerald
FitzGerald and his finances
In early 1999 it was revealed that some six years earlier, AIB and Ansbacher banks wrote off debts of almost IR£200,000 owed by FitzGerald following the collapse of the aircraft leasing company, Guinness Peat Aviation, in which he was a shareholder.[4]

Dannyboy83

Hasn't gone down in my expectation at all, gone up if anything.
I respect him for having the guts to say it when everyone else wants to tow the line.

Cowen would be the last person in the world to criticize his own party or go to against the propaganda.

It bodes well for the future imo.

mike65

Garret was an ineffective old buffer with regard to the economic management of the state, hamstrung by Old Labour beards and distractions of the "constitutional crusade", however that doesn't take anything away from Varadkers foolish outburst. Just bizarre

baalthor

Meeja Ireland wrote: »

It sounds like an internal debate within Fine Gael may have spilled over

Apparently many in FG are peed off about Garret's support for NAMA.
Varadkar also recently called for the PS unions to refuse to co-operate with the re-shuffled depts which I thought was a bit irresponsible.

Liam Byrne

Anonymous1987 wrote: »

Having said that it's a bit over the top to deride a former leader as wrecking the economy when he was actually not too bad.

I'd have no problem with someone giving the new Alan Dukes a good reality check.......:mad:

Joey the lips

I think fine gaels leo V has done a royston brady act.... Just lets watch his demise into oblivion......

At least you have to give him credit for stateing the truth. Fine gaels Gareth fitzgerald will be judged as maggie thatchers pupet in time and one of the worst managers of the economy.

Not to mention his poor handleing of the anglo irish affairs in specif northern politics.

I think gareth managed to stear fine gael away from the michael collins principles it has been founded on..

zootroid

I wouldn't go as far to say it was an outrageous outburst, but he certainly shot himself in the foot and shouldn't have made the comment. Garret Fitzgerald is, quite rightly, highly regarded. But I think it's an exaggeration to say it was an outrageous outburst.

And you have to laugh at the indignation of the FFer's with regards to this: "How dare you insult your own previous leader"! Just trying to deflect from their own failings. Varadker was right about one thing though, Cowen is no Lemass or Lynch.

baalthor

Joey the lips wrote: »

Not to mention his poor handleing of the anglo irish affairs in specif northern politics.

Eh, what about the Anglo Irish Agreement?

mike65

You are presuming Joe the lips isn't a fellow traveller....

drBill

Varadkar is becoming media slut recently; you can hardly switch on a radio or open a paper without hearing or seeing his mug. Suspect he's probably trying to raise his profile for some reason, maybe to get Kennys chair.

The fact that the reshuffle was being unveiled yesterday ensured that there was lots of media attention on the Dail and a good opportunity for him to try and grab the limelight again. Personally I'm getting a bit weary of hearing him slagging off all and sundry from his soapbox.

Dopey

I commend him for saying what he believes. It annoys me to hear politicians supporting others who have clearly made a mess of things just because they are a member of the same party or affiliated with them.

Examples are:

Brian Cowen's support for Roddy Molloy from Fas.
Bertie Ahern supporting Ceann Comhairle John O’Donoghue.
Bertie Ahern reinstating Beverly Cooper Flynn.

super_furry

Deleted User wrote: »

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0324/politics.html

He should have shown better judgment than using that kind of vitriol in my opinion.
It's also historical revisionism that Goebbels would have been proud of,and has píssed off a lot of his colleagues in FG.

Godwinned in one. Nicely done.

gandalf

super_furry wrote: »

Godwinned in one. Nicely done.

Naw Black Briar is just quoting his political hero Michael McDowell

Taxipete29

Fitzgerald has not been a member of FG for sometime. Varadker is free to speak his mind. He owes Garret no loyalty as Garret himself seems to have no loyalty to FG.

Biggins

Taxipete29 wrote: »

He owes Garret no loyalty as Garret himself seems to have no loyalty to FG.

Someone remind me when was the last time Garret insulted or had a dig a fellow member of his own previous party?

As the saying goes "you don't dump on your own doorstep"

While NOT a Garret fan, Leo is not doing himself any favours.
If Leo can "dump" on his own, what message is he sending out to those still in the party? Six months from now, I could be insulting you too?
Aye, great way to win support (now or in the future) in ones own party!

dicknorris

He should think before he speaks a loose cannon and has done himself damage long term

steof1984

I think it started out as an attempt to deflate Cowan similar to Lloyd Bentsen's "You're no Jack Kennedy" quote.

I think he went to far by discrediting Garrett Fitzgerald but I guess that’s what comes with being the Fine Gael attack dog.

I worry that constantly going negative will harm him in terms of long term political ambition.

SlabMurphy

Joey the lips wrote: »

I think fine gaels leo V has done a royston brady act.... Just lets watch his demise into oblivion......

At least you have to give him credit for stateing the truth. Fine gaels Gareth fitzgerald will be judged as maggie thatchers pupet in time and one of the worst managers of the economy.

Not to mention his poor handleing of the anglo irish affairs in specif northern politics.

I think gareth managed to stear fine gael away from the michael collins principles it has been founded on..

It just goes to show the absoulute patheticness of this little state when they elevate a bumbling idiot like Fitzgerald to " statesman " :rolleyes:. It was said of Fitzgerald that if Thatcher blew her nose Fitzgerald would grovel and apologise for it and then clean her nose up for her again.

Some of Fitzgerald's other great achievements -

* 1982, Taoiseach of shortest Govt in the histroy of the state for about 10/11 months falling due to the tax on children's shoes :rolleyes:

* Garret's promises to the Catholic lobby groups which gave later rise to the ' Pro Life Amendement ' to the consitution which later resulted in the X case :mad:

* The badly conceived 1st divorce act which ofcourse failed at the referendum.

* As someone pointed out, benefitting from 200,000 debts written off by AIB etc Not in Haughey's league, but still not bad all the same for a so called honest ' statesman '.

Biggins

Aaa hell, lets dig up Haughty's bummer achievements and Berties crass ones too!
While we are at it, lets dig up Dev's too and a few more.
Sure that will prove they weren't "statesmen" too! :rolleyes:

Laminations

Like people have said, why should Leo V show any loyalty, blind or otherwise to GF? He was no great statesman, making plenty of mistakes, and his financial affairs were a bit dodgy too. He also insults the FG party by his backing of NAMA. Himself and Alan Dukes must of had strokes to be siding with FF. The GF government is used by FF as the type of failure people should expect from FG in power, Leo V was saying to Cowen that he is far worse, his failures are current while FGs are in the past

Joey the lips

baalthor wrote: »

Eh, what about the Anglo Irish Agreement?

What about it... What did maggie actually give us that we had not already got....Honestly...

dvpower

Biggins wrote: »

Someone remind me when was the last time Garret insulted or had a dig a fellow member of his own previous party?

As the saying goes "you don't dump on your own doorstep"

I guess Garret's support for NAMA might qualify as a dig on the party as a whole.

anymore

anymore wrote: »

How can you talk of childish outbursts when you introduce ' Gobbels' into your thread opener ?
Rather typical melodrama that ignores the fact that if Fitzgeralds high tax philosophy had been fololwed the Cetic Tiger would have been still born.
Fitzgerald followed Haughey's example in taking handouts from the bank's after his disastrous foray into the stockmarket and this handout aslo cost the taxpayer money given that the banks wrote off the handout against tax.

Fitzgerald didn't have a high tax philosophy.
He had to have high taxes given the legacy of the '77 FF government.
There was no possibility of fixing the economy at the time for a number of good but regrettable reasons.
FG was vying for power with a power hungry haughey at the time.
If Putin was leader of FG at the time,the result economically I suspect would not have been much different.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garret_FitzGerald
FitzGerald and his finances
In early 1999 it was revealed that some six years earlier, AIB and Ansbacher banks wrote off debts of almost IR£200,000 owed by FitzGerald following the collapse of the aircraft leasing company, Guinness Peat Aviation, in which he was a shareholder.[4]

Whats that got to do with the price of turnips?

Biggins

dvpower wrote: »

I guess Garret's support for NAMA might qualify as a dig on the party as a whole.

Possibly true but at least it was directed at a policy, not a fellow individual.
Bit low to be honest, I thought it was of Leo.

Red Alert

I don't get the whole cult of personality around Fitzgerald. Nobody is above criticism - there are many in FF who don't like Lynch, Colley, Haughey, Reynolds etc. Leo Varadkar is quite entitled to criticise Fitzgerald if he wishes, and to be honest it's refreshing to see criticism coming from his own party.

LostinBlanch

Well Fitzgerald did come out cheerleading for SCAMA.

Nothing changes, he bails out banks and conicidentally gets his £200,000 debt written off.

He now comes out cheerleading to support the banks again.

Like I said, nothing changes.

SlabMurphy

Joey the lips wrote: »

What about it... What did maggie actually give us that we had not already got....Honestly...

The Anglo Irish agreement was brought about by the nessecity of the British govt. to throw the SDLP a lifeline to try and stop the rise in Sinn Fein after the Hunger Strikes. Whatever it's pro and cons, Fitzgerald was far from been an architect of it. The architect's of it were in Whitehall, No. 10 Downing St, Northern Ireland office etc. Garrret and co. were only invited by Thatcher to give the illusion of a nationalist input. All he and his advisors basically did was to fly over to London, put the dots over the i's and the crosses on the t's and then stand outside No.10 hailing it as a ' great breakthrough ' in Anglo Irish relations etc, etc, etc

baalthor

Dopey wrote: »

I commend him ... It annoys me to hear politicians supporting others who have clearly made a mess of things just because they are a member of the same party ..

It's not the same.
Varadkar had plenty of opportunities to criticise Garret over NAMA. What he did yesterday was to trash the record of his own party when they were last in power for a significant length of time. The real question is about Varadkar's judgement not Fitzgerald's. Garret isn't a potential future minister.

P. Breathnach

Varadkar is playing a bigger game. His beliefs are very right wing, and Fine Gael has a strong Social Democratic tradition. He is seeking to position himself and his party well to the right, and one of his moves is to express criticism of the Social Democratic past of the party. But the party has not jettisoned that tradition: as has been the case for decades, FG has its Social Democrats and its Christian Democrats, and the need for a modus vivendi. Varadkar would presumably prefer to drive the Social Democrats out of the party, and remake it in his own image.

The attack on Fitzgerald was delivered in an unnecessarily offensive manner. Whether you agree with Fitzgerald's political views or not, the reference to boring articles in the Irish Times was ugly, real cheap shot stuff.

[I can't figure whether Enda is a Christian Democrat or a Social Democrat. I suspect that he can't figure it, either.]

Dannyboy83

baalthor wrote: »

Varadkar had plenty of opportunities to criticise Garret over NAMA. What he did yesterday was to trash the record of his own party when they were last in power for a significant length of time.

What is actually wrong with that tho?

It says to me he thinks its unacceptable and he has something better to offer.
That makes me feel quite positive!

We cannot criticize our politicians for all their spin and propaganda and then also slate them when they actually speak up.

I genuinely don't understand why people have a problem with Leo Varadkar criticizing old FG. I think this is really healthy and I feel pleased/relieved.

Macha

Red Alert wrote: »

I don't get the whole cult of personality around Fitzgerald. Nobody is above criticism - there are many in FF who don't like Lynch, Colley, Haughey, Reynolds etc. Leo Varadkar is quite entitled to criticise Fitzgerald if he wishes, and to be honest it's refreshing to see criticism coming from his own party.

He can criticise him if he wants but there is a time and a way of doing these. Stepping on FitzGerald to score some cheap political points by way of a lame reference to Kennedy and a futher ad hominem attack is as cringe-worthy as it is childish.

Dannyboy83

P. Breathnach wrote: »

The attack on Fitzgerald was delivered in an unnecessarily offensive manner. Whether you agree with Fitzgerald's political views or not, the reference to boring articles in the Irish Times was ugly, real cheap shot stuff.

I didn't find it particularly offensive, but we all have differing tastes of course.
But I did think it was quite effective.

I actually laughed when I thought of Brian Cowen penning articles in the Irish Times about xyz, after a catastrophic tenure as Taoiseach.

It suddenly made him seem massively irrelevant, lol.

Mr.Micro

Garrett Fitzgerald is a bit of a boring old fa*t though IMO. I have never really decided what side of the fence he is on. As a former FG leader his opinions often appear at odds with the current party mantra and LV and the like are often no doubt irritated by the pretentious Mr.Fitzgerald, who still considers himself a grandee statesman.


With regard to Biffo in the future writing articles maybe for the Beano or The Sun or The Star.

Meeja Ireland

Red Alert wrote: »

I don't get the whole cult of personality around Fitzgerald. Nobody is above criticism - there are many in FF who don't like Lynch, Colley, Haughey, Reynolds etc. Leo Varadkar is quite entitled to criticise Fitzgerald if he wishes, and to be honest it's refreshing to see criticism coming from his own party.

It's healthy to criticise your own party, but he chose a weird time. Who is the more important target right now, in a debate about a cabinet reshuffle? Cowen or Fitzgerald?

The_Minister

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

Hasn't gone down in my expectation at all, gone up if anything.
I respect him for having the guts to say it when everyone else wants to tow the line.

Cowen would be the last person in the world to criticize his own party or go to against the propaganda.

It bodes well for the future imo.

Pit he won't come out against his useless party leader.

Dannyboy83

The_Minister wrote: »

Pit he won't come out against his useless party leader.

Fitzgerald and Cowen have both been tested (and indisputably failed in Cowen's case, open to dispute in Fitzgerald's case).
Enda Kenny hasn't been tested. Yet.

If Enda gets in, and makes a complete hames of it in the way Cowen has done, I hope he will come out against Enda then.
But until he has been tested.....



From what I've read of the FG policies/promises, it looks quite refreshing, there does seem to be some substance behind the claims unlike FF, and there does seem to be a real chance for change behind some of their policies such as the FairCare Dutch Modeled Health System etc.

I know people seem to have a personality conflict with Enda, personally I couldn't give a toss.
I am more interested in what he can do, than how he says he will do it.

patmar

OUT ! OUT ! OUT!

FG are truly amazing. They have lost the last 6 elections.
They have not won an election since 1982
Fitzgerald, Dukes, Noonan, Bruton have all at some stage in recent past stuck a knife in the back of FG
Just waiting for Cosgrave to issue a statement !
Kenny is hanging on by a thread
Varadkar is now a lethal weapon against FG

FF supporters like me who visit sites like this almost 100% against FF and witness the media stoke things up against FF constantly are sniggering like never before.

Keep up the good work and dont forget the day you guys stop bashing FF is the day FF are finished !

Sir Oxman

patmar wrote: »

OUT ! OUT ! OUT!

FG are truly amazing. They have lost the last 6 elections.
They have not won an election since 1982
Fitzgerald, Dukes, Noonan, Bruton have all at some stage in recent past stuck a knife in the back of FG
Just waiting for Cosgrave to issue a statement !
Kenny is hanging on by a thread
Varadkar is now a lethal weapon against FG

FF supporters like me who visit sites like this almost 100% against FF and witness the media stoke things up against FF constantly are sniggering like never before.

Keep up the good work and dont forget the day you guys stop bashing FF is the day FF are finished !

That's a lovely picture you paint of the 25% of gombeenism inherent in this country.
Keep revealing yourselves, please.

Biggins

patmar wrote: »

...FF supporters like me who visit sites like this almost 100% against FF and witness the media stoke things up against FF constantly are sniggering like never before...

...and ye are wondering why ye are losing support with that "looking down ones nose" attitude at the rest of us, towards the public and their opinions!
Please keep speaking, your doing the opposition great favours for the next elections - and they by the way are whats more important!
The public will see how FF snigger then!

Laminations

patmar wrote: »

FF supporters like me who visit sites like this almost 100% against FF and witness the media stoke things up against FF constantly are sniggering like never before.

Ah yes, FF have done nothing wrong its only fairytale telling by the media.

The media for the most part are reporting FACTS, like the FACT FF f***ed up this country by wasting the boom.

What are they stoking? No smoke without fire and all that.

FF have made their fire and now they and their supporters can burn in it

Laminations

Mr.Micro wrote: »

Garrett Fitzgerald is a bit of a boring old fa*t though IMO. I have never really decided what side of the fence he is on. As a former FG leader his opinions often appear at odds with the current party mantra and LV and the like are often no doubt irritated by the pretentious Mr.Fitzgerald, who still considers himself a grandee statesman.


With regard to Biffo in the future writing articles maybe for the Beano or The Sun or The Star.

I find a lot of what he says boring now too. Similar to the way Bertie is being paid s a sports commentator, it annoys me the way ex-public representatives on large pensions double job. GF has a State pension of £40,702 with a State car and driver. For what? A failure in government?

nacho libre

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

Hasn't gone down in my expectation at all, gone up if anything.
I respect him for having the guts to say it when everyone else wants to tow the line.

Cowen would be the last person in the world to criticize his own party or go to against the propaganda.

It bodes well for the future imo.

well, unless there is a grovelling apology, he has more than likely committed political suicide, to many he will likely be seen as a fool for saying this. i respect him for being honest and not going along with the part line for the sake of it. we decry politicians for being self- serving and not having integrity and honesty, yet when we see an example of the latter two the person is widely condemned.