In Your Opinion: Hunting With Hound or Round ?

vixdname

Having watched the Frontline program the other night regarding deer and fox hunting with hounds I'd be very interested in asking ye're opinions on whether hunting with guns is less cruel then hunting with hounds in your experience or opinions ?
I myself wouldnt take part in a hunt with hounds whether it be after deer or fox as I think it prolongs the whole process unnecessarily where as a rifle, if used by a competent hunter is a far more humane way of disposing of an animal\pest.
Your opinions would be very much appreciated ?

Feidhlim Dignan

every man for his sport

bunny shooter

Feidhlim Dignan wrote: »

every man for his sport

+1 & I'd just add as long as it's legal

BryanL

well if i was a fox, i'd prefer to take my chances against hounds, rather than against a gun!

tiny-nioclas

A gun is a hell of a lot less cruel because its instant, thats pretty obvious in fairness, hunting with hounds is cruel nobody will deny that,anyone one whos seen both will say the same, but cruel is a factor of life and nature so it doesnt move me that much tbh, i dont personally think its very respectful, all the farmers i shoot for, every one of them has told me if i see the hounds on the land to shoot them, the local hunt has no respect for the land or the countrysideand run havok but thats my only experience with these "hunts"

I do agree that an attack on this is an attack on the rest of us though, i couldnt care less about those who hunt on horseback but these fundamental bunny hugging laws will drip down and destroy proper hunting and shooting and fishing for the rest of us. Il be there on saturday no doubt.

thelurcher

How many foxes are caught above ground would you think - I'm fox hunting for a long time and I'd say it's a tiny percentage - and usually they're caught on the run for a reason i.e. in pretty shocking health.

The rest are dug - a single terrier is entered - you dig down - the fox is then shot at point blank range.

Most of the lads I know that shoot fox get the local gun dealer to 'set their sights' once a year - I'm not joking - they don't know how to do it themselves. Can you trust someone that doesn't know this most basic of tasks to not wound a fox all year.

There are no half measures when hunting with hounds - you kill the fox or he escapes totally unharmed.
That's not the case with a rifle - or worse still a shotgun which so many people use - I've seen plenty of foxes tumble from one and continue on - what a death..............that not my cup of tea or very respectful for that matter.

jwshooter

personally think its a load of crap , the fox is a killer . a sport killer at that .

it knows how to hunt and it knows what its like to be hunted ,if the hunt is a fair one and its not dug out iv no problem.

i dont like the idea of it being dug out and made suffer.

a rifle is a better way of culling them ,i have hit and lost foxes over the 22 years iv owned a rifle.

i bet a pack of hounds have never caught and lost a fox to let it go away injured .

Eddie B

thelurcher wrote: »

How many foxes are caught above ground would you think - I'm fox hunting for a long time and I'd say it's a tiny percentage - and usually they're caught on the run for a reason i.e. in pretty shocking health.

The rest are dug - a single terrier is entered - you dig down - the fox is then shot at point blank range.

Most of the lads I know that shoot fox get the local gun dealer to 'set their sights' once a year - I'm not joking - they don't know how to do it themselves. Can you trust someone that doesn't know this most basic of tasks to not wound a fox all year.

There are no half measures when hunting with hounds - you kill the fox or he escapes totally unharmed.
That's not the case with a rifle - or worse still a shotgun which so many people use - I've seen plenty of foxes tumble from one and continue on - what a death..............that not my cup of tea or very respectful for that matter.

At last!! someone who knows what he`s talking about and tells it as it is! In all fairness lads, there`s no method of fox controll that guarantees a pain free kill everytime! I`ve hunted with lurchers, terriers, shotgun, and rifle! I just see them all as different methods of fox controll! In my opinion, the only people we should be dissociating ourselves with are those who enjoy a prolonged death! Their not hunting people, their idiots!!!!

Dvs

This idea that hunting with hounds is one type of fox hunting for rich people with 4x4's horses, riding boots, and that hunting with firearms is a seperate type of fox hunting for the lesser classes is utter crap, usually stated as a fact by someone with absolute authority, who has little or no experience or first hand knowledge of either sport.

Anyone that is a district game club member, knows that using shotguns, hounds and terriers to beat cover is part of fox hunting also, and the fox is usually dispatched with a shotgun, but sometimes the dogs catch it,
death is no less instant or permanent.

Taking the view, that what loss would it be if those exclusive horseback fox hunters with their hounds and fancy outfits got banned, "it would not discommode the vast majority of hunters" we would be told.

But a ban on hunting with hounds would effect district gun clubs also,
we would be told " the intention was to ban the cruel practice of chasing foxes with packs of hounds, while riders on horseback ran them down, but the legistlation has inadvertantly banned using hounds to hunt foxes by district gun clubs"

we could be told by the Minister,
"I am informed that the term hound could be applied to any canine,therefore the use of dogs to hunt is suspended/banned until the situation is clarified"

We are after all talking about the only country in the world to ban a shooting sport.

Dvs.

s-cogan

i have no problem with either. i do on (hound, on horse) and hope to take up the other(round) soon. though my father hunted all his life on horses and said if i ever shot a fox, he'd shoot me. he loves hunting them that much, and he cares alot for his horses and other animals, so i hardly think that he would continue a sport all his life if he saw it as cruel.... i took up shooting recently and he said to me, ahtever else i do, never leave your hunting ground until you are sure the bird you have shot is DEAD not wounded and in agony, so he's not the kind of person to carry on an activity if it is cruel, no way.

jwshooter

Dvs wrote: »

This idea that hunting with hounds is one type of fox hunting for rich people with 4x4's horses, riding boots, and that hunting with firearms is a seperate type of fox hunting for the lesser classes is utter crap, usually stated as a fact by someone with absolute authority, who has little or no experience or first hand knowledge of either sport.

Anyone that is a district game club member, knows that using shotguns, hounds and terriers to beat cover is part of fox hunting also, and the fox is usually dispatched with a shotgun, but sometimes the dogs catch it,
death is no less instant or permanent.

Taking the view, that what loss would it be if those exclusive horseback fox hunters with their hounds and fancy outfits got banned, "it would not discommode the vast majority of hunters" we would be told.

But a ban on hunting with hounds would effect district gun clubs also,
we would be told " the intention was to ban the cruel practice of chasing foxes with packs of hounds, while riders on horseback ran them down, but the legistlation has inadvertantly banned using hounds to hunt foxes by district gun clubs"

we could be told by the Minister,
"I am informed that the term hound could be applied to any canine,therefore the use of dogs to hunt is suspended/banned until the situation is clarified"

We are after all talking about the only country in the world to ban a shooting sport.

Dvs.

your living in the wrong decade ,the local hunt hear is followed by all sorts ,farmers ,postmen,tyre fitters,blocklayers, deliverymen , lorry drivers .

to read your post its a class issue

Dvs

jwshooter wrote: »

your living in the wrong decade ,the local hunt hear is followed by all sorts ,farmers ,postmen,tyre fitters,blocklayers, deliverymen , lorry drivers .

to read your post its a class issue

Try reading it again,
especially this part,
This idea that hunting with hounds is one type of fox hunting for rich people with 4x4's horses, riding boots, and that hunting with firearms is a seperate type of fox hunting for the lesser classes is utter crap, usually stated as a fact by someone with absolute authority, who has little or no experience or first hand knowledge of either sport.

Dvs.

cavan shooter

My local hunt have got 5 foxes in 4 years

I get that with the hornet on a bad night.

I dont dig out foxes.




in saying that I would be interested at firing a hound at a fox

s-cogan

My local hunt have got 5 foxes in 4 years

I get that with the hornet on a bad night.

I dont dig out foxes.


yeah most hunts dont get near the fox very often at all, and when they do its killed with a humane killer

Tackleberrywho

vixdname wrote: »

Having watched the Frontline program the other night regarding deer and fox hunting with hounds I'd be very interested in asking ye're opinions on whether hunting with guns is less cruel then hunting with hounds in your experience or opinions ?
I myself wouldnt take part in a hunt with hounds whether it be after deer or fox as I think it prolongs the whole process unnecessarily where as a rifle, if used by a competent hunter is a far more humane way of disposing of an animal\pest.
Your opinions would be very much appreciated ?

If they ban Hunting, shooting will be next.
As the country gets urbanized we are in the risk of the town ruling the country.
They already think they own the country and have the right to roam.

I do not Hunt with Hounds, but i do believe the hounds are the tip of the iceberg!

sonofthegun

i was involved with local hunts but couldnt stand the cruelty any longer i believe if a fox goes to ground it has beating the hunt and should be left to fight another day but to see men dig a frightened fox from its den a be ripped to shreds by the dogs or run through with the crow bar would sicken you weres the sport in that it was done to satisfy the blood lust of the new hob nobs many of whom never had any thing to do with the country side i have a lot of permissions to shoot hunt and fish on lands because i am repectful of the land i hunt on i have seen first hand the damage these hunts have done and i dont blame any farmer for not wanting them on their lands.

Eddie B

sonofthegun wrote: »

i was involved with local hunts but couldnt stand the cruelty any longer i believe if a fox goes to ground it has beating the hunt and should be left to fight another day but to see men dig a frightened fox from its den a be ripped to shreds by the dogs or run through with the crow bar would sicken you weres the sport in that it was done to satisfy the blood lust of the new hob nobs many of whom never had any thing to do with the country side i have a lot of permissions to shoot hunt and fish on lands because i am repectful of the land i hunt on i have seen first hand the damage these hunts have done and i dont blame any farmer for not wanting them on their lands.

If you were involved in the hunt and therefore the dig! Were you not as responsible for what went on as anyone else!!! I take it you own a firearm, why didn`t you bring the bloody thing with you and dispatch the foxes properly!!! It doesn`t take a genius to figure that one out now does it!!! I`ve dug foxes with terriers, and always bring the gun to dispatch! Like anything in life, there`s right and wrong ways to do things!!!!

cavan shooter

The digging of foxes is becoming a very emotive issue, and a lot of lads I know including myself that used to do it dont do it now except on a very rare occassion.
i think its the area where a lot of people are geting up set with the hunts. If the hunt is about the chase, then if the fox goes to ground so be it, 1-0 to the fox. (move on)

But what chance does the fox have if you dig him out. Even with lamping the fox has to come to the caller (i.e come into range).

The mounted hunts are really doing themselves no favours:

The digging out of foxes is being shown to the world as a savage blood lust. Look at the ICABS site etc etc

Childrens pets getting ripped apart as what was on the news in NI last week.

A moggy getting killed up ourway by the hunts hounds

All this is putting nails in the coffin when to be honest all the animal rioghts folks have to do is sit back and watch the hunt slit their own throats.

I know 2 farmers around me that will let you lamp foxes, and welcome a fox drive even allow the hunt cross their land. But they wont allow digging out of foxes.

Things change, our club do fox drives instead of digging whereas 20 years ago we had terriers out nearly every sunday.

stevoman

Personally i have never shot a fox. It does'nt appeal to me. On the other hand if a fox was to he hunted the only way i would do it is with a lurcher so it is. The fox has far more of a sporting chance to escape and the hunt is far more natural and if the lurcher does get on the fox is a very quick death.

stevoman

cavan shooter wrote: »

The digging of foxes is becoming a very immotive issue, and a lot of lads I know including myself that used to do it dont do it now except on a very rare occassion.
i think its the area where a lot of people are geting up set with the hunts. If the hunt is about the chase, then if the fox goes to ground so be it, 1-0 to the fox. (move on)

I 100% agree with this. If the thrill is for the hunt then when the fox goes to ground then its over and move on.

Eddie B

cavan shooter wrote: »

The digging of foxes is becoming a very emotive issue, and a lot of lads I know including myself that used to do it dont do it now except on a very rare occassion.
i think its the area where a lot of people are geting up set with the hunts. If the hunt is about the chase, then if the fox goes to ground so be it, 1-0 to the fox. (move on)

But what chance does the fox have if you dig him out. Even with lamping the fox has to come to the caller

And here`s me thinking that the hunt was about controlling fox numbers!! So let me get this right! Were all out digging, shooting and lamping foxes for the hell of it!! Its nothing to do with fox controll at all is it? So take it you go to check your pheasant pen and there`s a fox in it that has killed everything. what do you do! turn around and count to ten to give him a head start before you shoot to give him a chance!!!! don`t make me laugh!!:P

jwshooter

your all mad to kill every fox you see.

i get as much fun out of a nites lamping or early morning walk after fox as i do shooting a few hand raised pheasants .
there well clipped around me but i would not want to see them to scarce .

there is probably more threads on foxes on boards than any other form of hunting .we all love to hate them.

some of the posts on the two threads going at the minute are pain full to read,

why should any one have the right to run down anothers sport ,i thought that was the antis job.

doyle61

the way i see it lads is this; when it comes to vermin contorl i think we're all in agreement that its us shooters that get the job done. as far as im concerned i think the hunts should come clean and tell the truth on the matter..........a hunt is a social occasion.....nothing more, nothing less. whenever theres a debate on the subject they say on the one hand that its vermine control but give them 10 mins and they say that they rarely catch a fox. now call me nieave but i always thought you had to kill the animal to call it vermine control. i think they would have a lot more crediteability if they admitted the truth on the matter.
no one has the right to run down someone elses sport, ESPECIALLY if they know nothing about it (as in anti hunting groups), but if us hunters (no matter what type of hunting you do) are to "win the hearts and minds" of the general public we have to be able to give a creditable debate on the subject which doesnt seem to be coming through on recent TV programs. we have to stop this in house back biting and actually stand up for all field sports

clivej

I have to agree with JW and Doyle on the above posts.

I was walking at 2 Hunts with my daugther when she was riding/hunting more than does now.

Both times while the Master of the hounds was in cover with the hounds trying to rise a fox, 3 foxes came out and ran round under the horses before making off never to be seen again.
Fox hunting on horseback is a social event with a chance of getting a fox kill.
If all the gun fox hunters went out to shoot them they would never egt them all and the fox will still survive.

sonofthegun

Eddie B wrote: »

If you were involved in the hunt and therefore the dig! Were you not as responsible for what went on as anyone else!!! I take it you own a firearm, why didn`t you bring the bloody thing with you and dispatch the foxes properly!!! It doesn`t take a genius to figure that one out now does it!!! I`ve dug foxes with terriers, and always bring the gun to dispatch! Like anything in life, there`s right and wrong ways to do things!!!!

ok i was sixteen involved because my family was involved what i saw going on i didnt like so i got out of it but each to their own.i now own a number of guns as im over the legal age to do so .maybe if you asked a few ouestions first you might not jump to the wrong conclusion GENIUS??
I HAVE DISPATCHED PLENTY OF FOXES as well as my skill with the rifle allows.

cavan shooter

Eddie B wrote: »

And here`s me thinking that the hunt was about controlling fox numbers!! So let me get this right! Were all out digging, shooting and lamping foxes for the hell of it!! Its nothing to do with fox controll at all is it? So take it you go to check your pheasant pen and there`s a fox in it that has killed everything. what do you do! turn around and count to ten to give him a head start before you shoot to give him a chance!!!! don`t make me laugh!!:P

Its only about fox control, I dont shoot foxes for sport, I shoot foxes to control there numbers in the areas I shoot over. Its the hunts that put forward the idea that its a sport, thrill of chase etc.

BryanL

cavan shooter wrote: »

Its the hunts that put forward the idea that its a sport, thrill of chase etc.

It's always been a sport, hunting,shooting,fishing and archery were considered sports while everything else were, games and pastimes.

What's wrong with hunting for sport?

Hound or round, Rifle or shotgun? Do we need to make a choice, can't we be free in our own country to enjoy both?
Bryan

convert

I agree with you dvs - I think a lot of the argument used against mounted packs is class based. When people complain about fox hunting, how many times do you hear them complain about foot backs? It's always the horses that gain the attention, simply because they're associated with the 'upper classes'.

I've hunted both by hound and by round, and I much prefer the former. I love watching the hounds work, seeing them seeking out the scent, watching their reaction when they find it, and then chasing off in pursuit of their quarry. When on foot, I've also been lucky enough to see the fox (which had left the covert long before the hounds even got whiff of his scent) and observe his tactics to confuse the hounds - doubling back on his tracks, running through a shallow stream, and then through a flock of sheep, all of which spoiled the scent and ensured he got away. It's watching nature at it's most natural state, and it's something that is quite a privilege to be able to watch.

I've never experienced the same when shooting. I've never got 'close' to the quarry in the same way, as I'm shooting from such a distance. There's no chance for the quarry to run. It literally doesn't know what hit it. I'm not trying to attack shooting here, I'm just saying that it's a completely different method of hunting.

thelurcher

Most of the arguments above don't make sense
You can't argue on one hand that hunting with hounds isn't an effective method of fox control and then say terrier work shouldn't be allowed - that's like going lamping with the rifle but leaving the rounds at home - pointless.

A fox is under no less 'stress' coming to an electronic call with a lamp in his face than when going one-on-one with a terrier of equal size and weight - and don't forget the fox dug the earth - that's where he's most at home.
But don't anthropomorphise an animal like a fox - they live in a pretty constant state of alertness - that's how they survive after all - they don't need counseling or prozac to deal with it.

Also the mounted packs are a small minority of those that hunt - the vast majority of us hunt on foot.
So spare a thought for the stress I'm under trying to keep into a pack of harriers with a bar in one hand and the terrier in the other

vixdname

thelurcher wrote: »

A fox is under no less 'stress' coming to an electronic call with a lamp in his face than when going one-on-one with a terrier of equal size and weight

What are you talking about ? A fox is moving towards a lamp and electronic caller in a state of curiosity and in the hope of an easy meal on an injured animal, while a fox face to face with a terrier will be in a state of fear and will probably be ready to fight for its life. So how you can compare the two is beyond reasonable comprehension and dare I say it down right stupid

johno2

If you want to call hunting a sport (which it is) then please don't include the practice of digging an animal out of it's home and killing it as part of hunting. That is pest extermination, not hunting. It's about as close to hunting as dynamite fishing or bottom trawling is to angling. Beyond that, I don't particularly like the local hunting meets. The horses damage fences and carry on their merry way without asking the landowners for permission, or offering any apology. My ex-gf hunts in a different part of the country and those guys had respect for the landowners, so the standard of hunters seems to vary from place to place. Personally I prefer a rifle.

johno

Grizzly 45

Beats me how the mounted packs ever DO manage to catch one of the most smartest creatures in the animal kingdom.What with all the horn blowing,Tally Ho ing and what not.Be it as it may,I've no problem with either method.Even when you shoot foxes it is common to send a terrier down to bolt the fox form his den for a shot on the Continent where Par Force hunting is virtually unknown bar in France where they actually kill the stag.
Thing is;I belive this is the domino theory.Lose foxhunting with hounds,everything else is fair game including shooting and despite the protestations of various anti fieldsport groups here.[A simple read of their litature or letters to the editor in local,national and international press regarding shooting and hunting would convince anyone on that point].So I would rather fight for my sport on somone elses street than on my doorstep.

imincanada

Cruelty argument is sadistically (statistically) flawed!

Thousands of poorly placed shoots wound foxes each year, this pales in compassion with the small numbers that are wounded of suffer a distressing death at the paws of hounds!


Hounds provided a sporting chance when compared to efficient rifles!
It seem obvious to shooter that the rifle gives us the edge but do The anti's realise that more foxes would survive if certain areas were only ever hunter by hounds. It would serve hunters well to promote hound hunting as a semi-conservation option for these animals in designated areas!. We should try and promote hunting methods that are less dependent on firearms with the emphasis on a return to nature and the use of animals as our friends.

If hound hunting is prohibited on the basis of the common misconception that it inflicts unnecessary cruelty when compared to the effective rifle then we will have to ban ferreting, falconry and ratting with terriers. Are we to be left devoid of our inherited traditions.
The Green wouldn't dare tell the world that the Inuit or Native Americans should be stopped hunting with there traditional methods because they don't approve.
Their augment is based on number of people who disapprove of these a aforementioned activities when compare to those who partake! Will our government not provide it natives with protection similar to the protection afforded to other indigenous populations by modern governments??

Is it not my right to practice these activities in the manner by which my forefather's have taught me! Will my government protect the rights of the minority or do they to bend to popular opinion like a mouse!