"Plan to grant legal rights to cohabiting couples criticised"

kangaroo

Letter in Irish Independent:

Discussion around the Civil Partnership Bill seems to concentrate on same-sex couples and ignores the elephant in the room.

It is unmarried, heterosexual couples that will be mainly affected.

Non-marriage will become pseudo-marriage and with pseudo-marriage comes pseudo-divorce and massive transfer of wealth from hard-working men to hardly working women.

Gold-diggers used to have to get a man up the aisle in order to steal his kids, house and money.

The Government has helpfully removed that obstacle.

The Corinthian

Dr Galen wrote: »

For you, its always gonna be about the Mens Rights thing, unmarried fathers, family law etc. I'm not saying thats necessarily bad in fairness, I'm just calling it as I see it. Its your experiences and stuff.

Personally I think that is fair enough given what forum this is.

That all said, I also disagree with this Bill, and have said before, its a sledgehammer to a walnut fix to something.

Let's call a spade a spade - it's akin to a 'moral tax', a means of raising government revenue or otherwise reducing costs by targeting a group in society that morally cannot be defended, like smokers, gamblers, drinkers or, in this case, men.

Now the responsibility to financially support thousands of people - mainly women, because of the constitutional role of women - will move from the department of social welfare to their former partners. Even if this only ends up affecting LPA payments (and it could end up affecting many without children) it could potentially take out of the SW net a fair whack of those single custodial parents who were never married but in long term relationships that ended.

But it's law now. Game over. There was practically no debate, and in fairness, it's not as if the media was biased - clueless maybe, but not biased. No, there was practically no debate because the electorate appears to have been completely apathetic on the subject. Even so-called men's groups have hardly murmured anything on this issue, even though it will be men who will suffer the brunt of this legislation.

metrovelvet

It has not been passed into LAW yet. The BILL was passed in the DAIL. It is not law until it is ratified by the Senate, which is anticipated to happen in the autumn.

Maybe cdfm ought to get his batman suit out and start training in the playground.:)

CDfm

Dr Galen wrote: »

see the problem CDfm with your figures and such is that your always coming from a certain view, a bias of you like.

For you, its always gonna be about the Mens Rights thing, unmarried fathers, family law etc. I'm not saying thats necessarily bad in fairness, I'm just calling it as I see it. Its your experiences and stuff.

I am pro an egalitarian approach and I think the way the law is and is administered at the moment is totally unbalenced against men.

So being pro-equality it is as contrary to what I understand equality to be in the same way as I would have viewed sectarian based institutional discrimination in the north or racism or male chavinism. No more , no less.

For me, things are different. I've seen many marriage breakups, and none of those have resulted in the doomsday scenario that you so often talk about, i.e father slipping into poverty/homelessness/etc. So thus, our experiences paint different pictures in our heads. I've spoken also with quite a few others, male and female, who also see things as I do.

Our experiences are different and I have done volunteer work for a support group and attended court as a McKenzie friend with some guys.

So my view on it is that it is an adversorial system and while it is a Civil Court -it has criminal penalties.

I also think that double income well paid professional couples have a better chance of amicable splits then the demographic that I worked with.

I'm not saying that the doomsday type scenarios that you, and others paint, don't happen, but maybe, in reality, its not as common as you think, and so, doesn't actually become a factor for the vast majoirty of people out there.

I think to be realistic you have to look at the lowest common denominator and that is the operation of the family law courts as they are now as precedent.

Relating all that back to the Civil Partnership Bill, it appears to me, that your worries about men slipping into poverty as a result, which is based on your thoughts regarding the same happening post divorce, may not be totally founded in the reality in the majority of cases.

It is untested territory and too soon to tell really but you can realistically expect it to follow the same script. Look at guardianship as an example.

One thing I certainly agree on though is the need for good quality unbiased statistics. Some of the stuff you posted above is just that. But as your rightly point out, it appears that differences don't appear to exist to any real level.

That all said, I also disagree with this Bill, and have said before, its a sledgehammer to a walnut fix to something.

I have often posted that one of the greatest barriers to equality in this is affordable childcare - it is a proven system and works economically.Its a Yin-Yang thing.

I started a thread on it as it would have been OT here.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055957283

I also think the indicators are there that benefits and benefit means testing will happen and that economic circumstances may drive this forward.

The right to work, adequete housing,child access, fruits of your labour etc are basic civil rights and nothing special really

metrovelvet wrote: »

Maybe cdfm ought to get his batman suit out and start training in the playground.

Nah deerskin trousers and boots are more my style

christ this legislation is terrifying for me.

I'm in a relationship for 4 years and I'm at the stage of trying to decide whether or not to take the plunge. I've been procrastinating for about a year on the subject as I sometimes think I'm "settling" or something

Time to sh!t or get off the pot!

CDfm

Davegalway wrote: »

christ this legislation is terrifying for me.

I'm in a relationship for 4 years and I'm at the stage of trying to decide whether or not to take the plunge. I've been procrastinating for about a year on the subject as I sometimes think I'm "settling" or something

Time to sh!t or get off the pot!

Well -what does the opportunity to "opt out" do for you and have you spoken about it.

Would she sign an opt out until you are ready to pop the question.

Where does the legislation leave pre-nup style arrangements and can you half opt in or have a partnership agreement?

sam34

CDfm wrote: »

You really do seem to have it in for me Sam. Others have commented on it but I havent.

Are you posting as a person or posting as a mod ??????

i;ve been away for teh weekend so just checking in here now.

i dont have it in for you.

however, when i see stats thrown about, i want a source for that. if the stats are true, then providing the source should not be a difficult task.

however, if you have a problem with my modding, then please take it to the cmods.

CDfm

sam34 wrote: »

i;ve been away for teh weekend so just checking in here now.

i dont have it in for you.

however, when i see stats thrown about, i want a source for that. if the stats are true, then providing the source should not be a difficult task.

however, if you have a problem with my modding, then please take it to the cmods.

I will thanks.

It was not clear whether you were posting as a mod or not or participating in the discussion.

kangaroo

(Not exciting)

The Irish Examiner had an editorial on Civil Partnership Bill
http://www.irishexaminer.com/opinion/editorial/civil-partnership-bill--a-welcome-recognition-of-reality-124028.html . It is effusive in its praise for it. However apart from a passing reference in the first paragraph (and I'm not 100% what it is saying - "irrespective of their sexual orientation or domestic arrangements"), it seems to be all about same-sex couples.

metrovelvet

It hasnt been passed into law yet, so you can still write to your senators.

The Irish Times the other day had a very misleading headline, which would lead the average onlooker to believe it is law. So I imagine most of the population now think it has passed and wont do anything to stop it.

CDfm

metrovelvet wrote: »

It hasnt been passed into law yet, so you can still write to your senators.

The Irish Times the other day had a very misleading headline, which would lead the average onlooker to believe it is law. So I imagine most of the population now think it has passed and wont do anything to stop it.

The Act is being sold to us as if it is same sex couples legislations legislation when that is just a fraction of what it is. I havent seen anyone really oppose the concept of same sex legal status.

So why the deception about what it really does.

I wont be taking the examiner seriously again.