The Lansdowne/Aviva discussion thread.

andrewdcs

Haven't seen any threads reflecting on Croker, unless they were lost in the unpleasantness on Saturday.. . .
So, Croke Park neatly "bookended" in misery but fitting that it will hold the memory of some of the most wonderful moments in Irish Rugby history.

Best moment - Has to be "that" England match, but for an individual Heaslips superb score against France last year.

Worst moment - Vincent Clerc stepping everybody to break through at the death in the first match. Heart breaking.

Also, I'm taking this opportunity to swear a solemn oath that if I ever ever ever call the new stadium "the Aviva" I shall give away my match ticket to someone more deserving. Lansdowne Roadie For Life

d'Oracle

andrewdcs wrote: »

Also, I'm taking this opportunity to swear a solemn oath that if I ever ever ever call the new stadium "the Aviva" I shall give away my match ticket to someone more deserving. Lansdowne Roadie For Life

I disagree.

Its too woofty, all flowing lines and nonsense.
Far too much architecture.

Lansdowne was old school; stand, stand, terrace, terrace and two odd old gaffs which were hard to explain to foreigners.

I think Aviva suits. Makes me think of a small girly Fiat.
The kind which rises the same level of disdain which I feel looking at that horrible stadium every morning.

JustinDee

d'Oracle wrote: »

The kind which rises the same level of disdain which I feel looking at that horrible stadium every morning.

I've been inside it lately. Its absolutely amazing. Not only that but the surface is grown and not imported (seeding went down last week).

The facilities inside and around are top drawer and personally I think the stadium looks brilliant. It will be the most modern and best equipped of stadia to date.

andrewdcs

the "Fiat Aviva" has a certain marketable ring to it. *Blerch*. I'm reminded of The Simpsons where Homer designs a car. "People don't want Greek godesses, they want angry animal names, like Mustang or Bronco" or something along those lines.

TBH I quite like the new stadium, seeing it from the ground, though it looks like a toilet bowl from the air.




hmmmm.

Tim Robbins

How about calling it "The Corporate arena" - since that's where the tickets will be going

JustinDee

Tim Robbins wrote: »

How about calling it "The Corporate arena" - since that's where the tickets will be going

The majority of tickets goes to club allocations actually as it always has done.

Theta

JustinDee wrote: »

People on another forum have been raising concerns when they see photos like this one. As you can see it has been taken from very near the sidelines yet it would appears that the view from the very top seats is going to be horrible because of the large white truss that runs all along the top.

JustinDee

Theta wrote: »

People on another forum have been raising concerns when they see photos like this one. As you can see it has been taken from very near the sidelines yet it would appears that the view from the very top seats is going to be horrible because of the large white truss that runs all along the top.

That pic was taken there because its the seating area I'd most like to be in.
You can see the entire field of play from the very top of all three of the higher stands. No problems there whatsoever.

Theta

JustinDee wrote: »

That pic was taken there because its the seating area I'd most like to be in.
You can see the entire field of play from the very top of all three of the higher stands. No problems there whatsoever.

But could you see a high ball? I mean is the truss in your field of view or over it?


Also anyone know if there is anychance of getting tickets to the Ireland v SA game?

andrewdcs

Theta wrote: »

As you can see it has been taken from very near the sidelines yet it would appears that the view from the very top seats is going to be horrible because of the large white truss that runs all along the top.

I'm sure there are shots of the pitch from the "cheap seats" (!) that prove it, but I don't think theres any issue with restricted viewing or any problem with facilities per say. Can't find the pictures though.

conf101

Any more recent photos of the stadium floating about anywhere?

JustinDee

Theta wrote: »

But could you see a high ball? I mean is the truss in your field of view or over it?

I'd say so. Looked fine to me. I don't think people realise just how high those stands are.
They are actually higher than the Hogan or Cusack stands in Croke Pk for example.

Theta

Found this photo.



Thats pretty poor I must say

Edit: Video Here

JustinDee

conf101 wrote: »

Any more recent photos of the stadium floating about anywhere?

They're from last week. Don't have camera with me to upload any more.

BBC did a great piece on the Aviva Stadium last saturday in the lead up to our game.

[Jackass]

JustinDee wrote: »

I've been inside it lately. Its absolutely amazing. Not only that but the surface is grown and not imported (seeding went down last week).

The facilities inside and around are top drawer and personally I think the stadium looks brilliant. It will be the most modern and best equipped of stadia to date.

Cheers for that man. If you have more pics from inside, please post. I've seen the ones on the site, but yours are obviously more up to date.

Ha! The north terrace is a shambles! Smaller than most AIL stands. What a waist of time....

From facilities perspective, it will be amongst the best stadiums in the world, better than Croke Park...

From a size and functionality perspective, it's about 50 years behind the current requirements for sporting infrastructure and is a pathetic national stadium...

It'll probably be a good size for Leinsters home ground in 20 odd years when the lease on the RDS expires (seeing as the first world cup final 20 odd years ago had an attendence of 22,000 and about 5,000 empty seats...going on that trend of growth in popularity...)

Hopefully by then enough progress will have been made to accept the mistake and move back to Croke Park or build a new stadium...

Not likely...

Theta wrote:

People on another forum have been raising concerns when they see photos like this one. As you can see it has been taken from very near the sidelines yet it would appears that the view from the very top seats is going to be horrible because of the large white truss that runs all along the top.

Any chance of link to the thread? Would be an interesting read (if mods don't mind...)

Aidric

JustinDee wrote: »

BBC did a great piece on the Aviva Stadium last saturday in the lead up to our game.

They did a little piece but it was nice to see some video footage from inside. Like I said on the match thread though that bottom end with what looks like a few hundred seats is pathetic. I know this was down to restrictions but it takes away a little from an otherwise class stadium.

conf101

[Jackass] wrote: »

Ha! The north terrace is a shambles! Smaller than most AIL stands. What a waist of time....

Why is that stand not built 2/3 tiers like the others?

youcancallmeal

Eh whats goin on, wheres the rest of the stand? Please don't tell me that this is going to be like Croke Park and only have 3 sides with stands!?

Theta

youcancallme>al wrote: »

Eh whats goin on, wheres the rest of the stand? Please don't tell me that this is going to be like Croke Park and only have 3 sides with stands!?

Thats the side that backs onto houses so they were unable to build any higher without leaving houses without sunlight which is why they can go no higher.

[Jackass] wrote: »

Any chance of link to the thread? Would be an interesting read (if mods don't mind...)

Ill post it if there is no objections.

[Jackass]

Yup, afriad so! North end will have about 5 rows of seats. It's where "away" support tickets will be sold for.

The reason, well, planning permission, the houses behind that side objected and planning permission was not granted (and added about 6 - 12 months onto the project time frame and cost a few million) and then they made the stand the same heigth of the old terrace that was there...and as that stood for literally over 100 years, they could get permission for that.

HOWEVER! The stadium was reangled to make better use of the space, so at the new angle, there wasn't enough of a slant / room to keep the pitch the right size and length and be able to go higher than about 5 rows of seats...so essentially, about 20,000 seats were lost on the project and about 10 corporate boxes.

So it's a 3 sided stadium, again, as is Croke Park.

Welcome to Ireland. Sure wouldn't it be no craic if we weren't incompitent clowns and have 3 or 4 stadium plans and fight over them for a decade than throw out this piece of sh*te as the best solution...toora loora loo, sure we're only a bunch of eejits in all and anyway!

andrewdcs

AFAIK That end was compromised by the residents objections (similar thing with hill 16, but the GAA will probably have the money to buy all the houses on that street in a few years)

At the video posted by Theta at 2.47, view from the nose bleeders, massive pylons right across your field. hmmmmm.

JustinDee

Theta wrote: »

Thats the side that backs onto houses so they were unable to build any higher without leaving houses without sunlight which is why they can go no higher

To extend that stand's capacity would mean that they would have had to build an extra 30m back which was impossible due to the houses at that end being within that distance

Theta

andrewdcs wrote: »

AFAIK That end was compromised by the residents objections (similar thing with hill 16, but the GAA will probably have the money to buy all the houses on that street in a few years)

At the video posted by Theta at 2.47, view from the nose bleeders, massive pylons right across your field. hmmmmm.

I believe the houses behind the Aviva are protected aswell so there is no chance of additions from what I can tell.

JustinDee

andrewdcs wrote: »

AFAIK That end was compromised by the residents objections (similar thing with hill 16, but the GAA will probably have the money to buy all the houses on that street in a few years)

What lies behind the Hill is the Royal Canal, not a street. They would never get planning permission to extend there.

Theta

JustinDee wrote: »

What lies behind the Hill is the Royal Canal, not a street. They would never get planning permission to extend there.

Could they not get permission to straddle the tracks like landsdowne does the DART line?

andrewdcs

JustinDee wrote: »

What lies behind the Hill is the Royal Canal, not a street. They would never get planning permission to extend there.

I think thats the canal end no? Which is "full size".

I think the Hill is over a rail line, but Clonliffe Road residents would be in total darkness if they built it up. Point about Croke park is that is at least extendible further (up to 100k I've heard tell) the GAA have to buy up any house backing onto the stadium and wait. FAI/IRFU have zero options on Lansdowne site.

[Jackass]

Theta wrote: »

I believe the houses behind the Aviva are protected aswell so there is no chance of additions from what I can tell.

Well, EVEN IF that was an option to extend that stand, the design made a good job of making sure that it could never happen!! When the roof is fully finished, those 2 poles either side of the North Stand are going to be removed, and the roof will be a free standing structure attached only to the stadium (ironicly, so that it is 100% unrestricted view...if they had got the maths right for the frame on the rest of the roof).

So in order to expand it would require replacing the entire roof, which would double if not treble the cost of doing it, as well as buying up the land, so it will never happen...it wouldn't be cost effective to spend all that for such little gain...things should really be done right from the begining...

JustinDee wrote: »

What lies behind the Hill is the Royal Canal, not a street. They would never get planning permission to extend there.

It's actually train tracks and some housing.

I'd imagine the GAA will certainly make a move as the final phase of the project to buy up the land where the houses are to complete the stadium..it's only a few...

The school I was in had a training pitch behind the old Croke Park that the GAA paid obscene money from to buy up and use for part of the Canal end.

As for the tracks, it's very easy to either have a tunnell literally through the stadium or to put the tracks underground (although they are elivated tracks about street level), whichever is more cost effective and depending on how much a tunnell at the existing height would reduce capacity by.

But when it's done (and I'm sure it will be in our lifetime), it will be about 100,000 capacity stadium, all seater...it's not required right now as the GAA hardly sell out Croke Park more than once or twice a year as it is....but not a bad stadium for an "amature" association who rake it in with professional sport ticket prices, corporate advertising everywhere, sponsored tournaments, corporate boxes, massive rental costs to FAI & IRFU and not a penny spent on player wages...greatest scam of all time if you ask me...I'm surprised the seats aren't paved with gold and the urinals are carved out of crystal...

wixfjord

Said it before and Ill say it again, why oh why oh why was this ridiclous thing built. Makes absolutely no sense at all. Someones gonna give me all this ****e about how historic the site is and how much it would cost to build elsewhere, the fact is that end stand is a disgrace and so is the capacity. Who the hell felt it made sense to build the second smallest stadium in the 6N should be fired. What jackass says is right, and Ive heard thousands of people agree, so why was it built? Stupid ****in country.

chupacabra

Im pretty sure i read somewhere that the design of the north end of the stadium was tailored so that if in the future the housing estate behind it can be bought and knocked they can easily extend that stadium the whole way around bringing it up to around 65,000 - 70,000

wixfjord

JustinDee wrote: »

What lies behind the Hill is the Royal Canal, not a street. They would never get planning permission to extend there.

Its a train line behind the Hill. Canal End is where the canal is

Edit sorry beaten to it!

bog master

JustinDee wrote: »

What lies behind the Hill is the Royal Canal, not a street. They would never get planning permission to extend there.

Ehmmm,, think you will find a rail line behind Hill 16, the Canal is behind the Canal End or now called the Davin Stand.

Theta

wixfjord wrote: »

Said it before and Ill say it again, why oh why oh why was this ridiclous thing built. Makes absolutely no sense at all. Someones gonna give me all this ****e about how historic the site is and how much it would cost to build elsewhere, the fact is that end stand is a disgrace and so is the capacity. Who the hell felt it made sense to build the second smallest stadium in the 6N should be fired. What jackass says is right, and Ive heard thousands of people agree, so why was it built? Stupid ****in country.

Chill out dude.

wixfjord

Theta wrote: »

Chill out dude.

Someone in the IRFU should have said this when plans were being drawn up. Chilling out is what got us this stupid stadium in the first place.

Its time for action *rabble rabble* :P

Theta

wixfjord wrote: »

Someone in the IRFU should have said this when plans were being drawn up. Chilling out is what got us this stupid stadium in the first place.

Its time for action *rabble rabble* :P

Is it not the PD's fault we have this stadium?

JustinDee

bog master wrote: »

Ehmmm,, think you will find a rail line behind Hill 16, the Canal is behind the Canal End or now called the Davin Stand.

Yep. Entirely correct. Its on my train journey route and I usually wake up when we're passing it!
What is behind the Hill is CIE land and some listed housing.

wicklowwonder

JustinDee wrote: »

Yep. Entirely correct. Its on my train journey route and I usually wake up when we're passing it!
What is behind the Hill is CIE land and some listed housing.

why are they listed in both circumstances? are they that old and of that much value to the state? any chance of delisting them?

toomevara

OK, reopening it, appetite for discussing the Aviva/Lansdowne, looking at pics etc...seems considerable. I'll just rename it as a general Aviva thread. Have at it!

Random

(posting to subscribe on mobile theme)

Noffles

It's too small and I think that's the general consensus, from the general shape though I can only imagine when full it "should" have a good cauldron like atmosphere... lives in hope....!

Theta

It is a bit small but then its top notch from a technology point of view and facilities. Pity its not 70k

d'Oracle

JustinDee wrote: »

Flowing lines, glass, light for the residents.....AVIVA!
Flowery architects abound.

Perfect name.

thomond2006

The North end takes the gloss off what looks to be a fantastic stadium.

Will do my utmost to get Munacht vs Lulster tickets!

Crash

thomond2006 wrote: »

The North end takes the gloss off what looks to be a fantastic stadium.

Will do my utmost to get Munacht vs Lulster tickets!

Good choice on the ordering there thomond, that could have gone terribly wrong.

Definitely looks like it could be a bit of a cauldron if the acoustics work out right.

Spud83

If I can get tickets ill be happy, but I'm guessing the supporters club won't be much use when this place is finished.

ljohnson

stadium is too small at 50,000 waste of money should have stayed at croker

JustinDee

ljohnson wrote: »

stadium is too small at 50,000 waste of money should have stayed at croker

Do you remember the original deal?
It basically said that yes Croke Park stadium was to be temporarily opened but when Aviva is finished, rugby and soccer was to go back.

And I'll remind you that there's a lot more to stadium revenue than a simple "attendance minus ground hire equals profits".

PTH2009

Can a Heineken Cup Quarter, Semi or Final be played In Croke Park or even a barbarians vs New Zealand, Austraila or ireland. In England They used Wembly to play a Bar vs New Zealand Match.

kippy

Am surprised there isnt a facebook group on this already. Something along the lines of:
"Its Landsdowne road, not the "aviva" stadium"

*runs off to creat FB group*

nosco

kippy wrote: »

Am surprised there isnt a facebook group on this already. Something along the lines of:
"Its Landsdowne road, not the "aviva" stadium"

*runs off to creat FB group*

I'll be calling it the aviva because.....that is its name!

Theta

As far as I know the GAA are not opposed to them using the stadium but they will have to use it because of contract rights with Aviva now if that means all games or just a certain amount and the bigger games can be played in croker noone knows.

Blut2

Looks very nice, the capacity is an awful shame though. With games against Italy and Scotland both getting 80k-ish attendances at 75euro a ticket and no public release of tickets in the middle of a serious recession in Ireland youd wonder how high attendances for matches against teams like Australia, NZ, South Africa, England or France would go in a more prosperous time. 120k at games like those probably wouldnt be out of the question, especially in a few years if the sports popularity continues to grow, if a suitable stadium was available. Shame.