we need to stand up

wishwashwoo

hello all i hope as many people as possible read this and please your friends as well. ok here it goes i am an irish guy 34 years of age no eduction at all buy i am very good with all things electric so i have a good job i am a sound engineer up untill today i have loved my country with all its quirkes but after today no more i mean it no more i am working on a big site in dublin city at 12.30 pm today i seen about 10 guys with bags and cases walking true the site i then seen one of the lads was one of the guys who was working along side me all week he is polish so i went and asked him was everything all right he said fine and then said something in his own language to his mate and they started to laugh so i walked off but i was still within ear shot what i heard next turned my stomach each and every one of them guys had just signed on the labour dole office and got there money for not working witch there were all working on this site then i heard them say fuc.... irish ticks we will take everything from them and we will leave them with noting and they all had a good laugh at this i could not take any more so i came out from around the corner and they tought no one had heard them well i did so i told them all that they would not work on this site again as i was going to tell the foreman what they were up to one of the guys told me to mind my own business well you inbreed piece of crap it is my business as my tax is keeping you in food and clothes and what ever so a coupe of the irish lads on the site started to here me shout at them so they came over and asked what was going on i told them and they went mad really mad so much so that the cops were called the cops turned up in force did they say or do anything to the sausage roles like **** they did we were the ones who they went for in the mean time i phoned the local dole office and told them that i know of 10 poles working on a site in dublin city centre and who were signing on as well what did this man say to me was his hands were tied even if i had video tape that there was notting he could do as to touch the poles was to ask for trouble in his job well what do you all think of that you and me would be locked up for less its a country going down the **** pipe and i am away as soon as possible and i urge any one else who feels the same to leave as well as its not the republic of ireland any more its the republic of poland and an irish man has no say

fontanalis

Reminds me of Last Exit to Brooklyn.

Esel

wishwashwoo wrote: »

hello all i hope as many people as possible read this but I know they won't because I didn't use any punctuation or paragraphs

FYP

boodlesdoodles

Seriously and no offense meant: edit, use punctuation, use spellcheck or learn to spell and punctuate. You can't expect people to read a post that's written like a stream of consciousness. Seriously, though punctuation...

ParkRunner

If I were you I would put what you posted into a more readable letter and send it to your local councillors, TD's and in particular the social welfare fraud section:
Central Control Division, Shannon Lodge, Carrick-on-Shannon, Co Leitrim.

If that doesn't work Joe Duffy or Vincent Browne are probably your only option.

AARRRRGH

I cant read that. Gave up after the first line.
What was he saying?

Count Dooku

EF wrote: »

If I were you I would put what you posted into a more readable letter and send it to your local councillors, TD's and in particular the social welfare fraud section:
Central Control Division, Shannon Lodge, Carrick-on-Shannon, Co Leitrim.

where it will be ignored by working to rule civil servants

guy reported about 4 cases of welfare fraud with zero result…

ParkRunner

Count Dooku wrote: »

where it will be ignored by working to rule civil servants

guy reported about 4 cases of welfare fraud with zero result…

Well if we are all to go by what one guy said is true then there is no point in anyone reporting social welfare fraud, despite millions being saved every year following successful investigations.

Ricosruffneck

wishwashwoo wrote: »

cops were called the cops turned up in force did they say or do anything to the sausage roles

sausage rolls? not good man; i expected much more from a liberal mind like yourself.


Should they have ate them?

hiorta

The poster explained that he had no education at all.
Is this any better?

wishwashwoo wrote:

Hello all. I hope as many people as possible read this and please tell your friends as well.
O.K. here it goes - I'm an irish guy, 34 years of age with no eduction at all, but I'm very good with all things electric and so i have a good job.
I am a sound engineer and until today I have loved my country with all its quirks.
After today though, no more. I mean it - no more.
I am working on a big site in dublin city and at 12.30 pm today I saw about 10 guys with bags and cases walking through the site. I noticed one of them was one of the guys who works along side me all week. He is Polish. I asked him was everything all right he said fine and then spoke in his own language to his mate and they started to laugh.
I was able to hear them and what I heard turned my stomach.All of them had just signed on the dole office and got their money for not working. I then heard him say 'Fuc.... irish ticks, we will take everything from them and we will leave them with noting'.
They all had a good laugh at this.
i could not take any more so i came out from around the corner and they thought no one had heard them. I told them all that they would not work on this site again as I was going to advise the foreman what they were up to.

One of them told me to mind my own business. 'it is my business, as my tax is keeping you in food and clothes and what ever, so a couple of the irish lads on the site heard me shout at them, so they came over and asked what was going on. I told them and they went mad - really mad - so much so that the cops were called. The cops turned up in force did they say or do anything to the Poles? WE were the ones they went for. In the mean time I phoned the local dole office and told them that I know of 10 Poles working on a site in dublin city centre and who were signing on as well. I was told that their hands were tied and even if I had video tape evidence, there was nothing he could do, as to challenge the Poles was to ask for trouble.

What are your views on that? You and I would be locked up for less. This is a country going down the drainpipe and I'm off away asap and I urge others who feel the same to leave also. This is not the Republic of Ireland any more its a foreign country in which the Irisman has no say.


My apologies for the edit, but the points are important ones

P. Breathnach

hiorta wrote: »

... My apologies for the edit, but the points are important ones

But I want to know if they are true. Are we to take it that the OP understands Polish?

brendansmith

Fairplay to you OP

See it through though! Dont let these guys take advantage.

I congratulate you on sticking up for your country in its time of need, dont listen to the rest of these guys, they hid behind a keyboard but you stood up to these thieves which is more than they would ever do.

Liam Byrne

While some of what the OP said is valid, I'd be worried about the racism implied by the use of phrases like "sausage rolls", by which I assume the OP was referring to the Polish ?

For that reason, I wouldn't take the OP's post with any credibility whatsoever.

Ricosruffneck

hiorta wrote: »

The poster explained that he had no education at all.
Is this any better?

wishwashwoo wrote:

Hello all. I hope as many people as possible read this and please tell your friends as well.
O.K. here it goes - I'm an irish guy, 34 years of age with no eduction at all, but I'm very good with all things electric and so i have a good job.
I am a sound engineer and until today I have loved my country with all its quirks.
After today though, no more. I mean it - no more.
I am working on a big site in dublin city and at 12.30 pm today I saw about 10 guys with bags and cases walking through the site. I noticed one of them was one of the guys who works along side me all week. He is Polish. I asked him was everything all right he said fine and then spoke in his own language to his mate and they started to laugh.
I was able to hear them and what I heard turned my stomach.All of them had just signed on the dole office and got their money for not working. I then heard him say 'Fuc.... irish ticks, we will take everything from them and we will leave them with noting'.
They all had a good laugh at this.
i could not take any more so i came out from around the corner and they thought no one had heard them. I told them all that they would not work on this site again as I was going to advise the foreman what they were up to.

One of them told me to mind my own business. 'it is my business, as my tax is keeping you in food and clothes and what ever, so a couple of the irish lads on the site heard me shout at them, so they came over and asked what was going on. I told them and they went mad - really mad - so much so that the cops were called. The cops turned up in force did they say or do anything to the Poles? WE were the ones they went for. In the mean time I phoned the local dole office and told them that I know of 10 Poles working on a site in dublin city centre and who were signing on as well. I was told that their hands were tied and even if I had video tape evidence, there was nothing he could do, as to challenge the Poles was to ask for trouble.

What are your views on that? You and I would be locked up for less. This is a country going down the drainpipe and I'm off away asap and I urge others who feel the same to leave also. This is not the Republic of Ireland any more its a foreign country in which the Irisman has no say.


My apologies for the edit, but the points are important ones

You left the bit with the sausage rolls out.

Could it be the case that they're on a 2-3day week and for the other days they sign on like anybody else would?

Could this have got lost in translation between all the arguing they were doing amongst both parties?

Ricosruffneck

brendansmith wrote: »

Fairplay to you OP

See it through though! Dont let these guys take advantage.

I congratulate you on sticking up for your country in its time of need, dont listen to the rest of these guys, they hid behind a keyboard but you stood up to these thieves which is more than they would ever do.

and i take it you're posting on here using the power of your mind alone or are you using a keyboard as well?

My opinion is that all the facts of the story are not on the table so we don't know if the other workers are operating within/outside the law.

AARRRRGH

He heard 2 polish people speaking among themselves say
"All of them had just signed on the dole office and got their money for not working. I then heard him say 'Fuc.... irish ticks, we will take everything from them and we will leave them with noting'.
They all had a good laugh at this."

In English, when earlier they were talking to each other in "Their own language"

Why do I not believe this. hmmmmm.

zootroid

then i heard them say fuc.... irish ticks we will take everything from them and we will leave them with noting and they all had a good laugh at this

I'll be honest, I don't believe the story the OP told. Two Polish lads are speaking in Polish, and then conveniently say this in English?

As for the part of about the government not cracking down on social welfare fraud, I'm sure it goes on, so there could probably be more done tackle it.

AlekSmart

While some of what the OP said is valid, I'd be worried about the racism implied by the use of phrases like "sausage rolls", by which I assume the OP was referring to the Polish ?

For that reason, I wouldn't take the OP's post with any credibility whatsoever.

Ah here Liam Byrne...you should get out a bit more.

This lad is using what is fairly "normal" parlance in many parts of the construction industry where Non-Nat`s and Natives work together (Believe me there are FAR worse descriptives in use from BOTH groupings)

The use of Rhyming slang largely came about from various nationalities being crammed together in big cities worldwide and of themselves coming to use all manner of sounds and words to get their meanings across....It`s far from RACISM !! of itself.

True racism would be what the OP THINKS about his non-national colleagues not what he calls them.

Idbatterim

its the system not the people thats the problem! who decides on welare rates, regulation etc? they are right, ofcourse we are mugs! go over to their country and see what you are entitled to! Is there a reward system for confidentially reporting those you suspect of working and claiming illegally? as opposed to working and claiming legally i.e a 3 day week? They should outsource the Dept of Welfare to a private operator / detective agency, where they get to keep a percentage of the total budget, i.e to prevent as much abuse as possible and get the money to those that are genuine cases and entitled to it! Imagine a Ryanir type of system, where every cent is watched and only those that are genuinely entitlted to it get it! I never bought the whole "da foredners are taken our jobds" during the celtic tiger, but ofcourse at the moment, foreginers are legally in positions that the Irish could fill, if things here werent so cushy for alot of them they might leave and free up jobs for the Irish...

Sand

Does the OP speak Polish?

Is there any news reports of disturbances on building sites? Of several construction workers being arrested? If news media had heard of an event with some racial overtones theyd be all over it surely?

Story doesnt seem credible. Reads like a tired rabble rousing exercise.

Sand

Sand wrote: »

Does the OP speak Polish?

Is there any news reports of disturbances on building sites? Of several construction workers being arrested? If news media had heard of an event with some racial overtones theyd be all over it surely?

Story doesnt seem credible. Reads like a tired rabble rousing exercise.

Since when do sound engineers work on building sites? (excuse my ignorance, I've just never heard of it)

Sand

Since when do sound engineers work on building sites? (excuse my ignorance, I've just never heard of it)

Yes, it was a quirk I find disconcerting too. Hes talking about "the site" and his "foreman" all through the story. Are there large crews of Polish sound engineers in Ireland? Do sound engineers have sites and foremen?

Who knows. The story is all a bit makey uppy.

AlekSmart

Since when do sound engineers work on building sites? (excuse my ignorance, I've just never heard of it)

Oh dear...well I suppose there are engineers who may be less sound than others....ah well they still may well be sound men themselves.....?

Step back and look at de broader picture.......

That may well include the native Irish learning a bit of French......as in growing a set of boules ....

http://ukfrancebikers.com/2010/03/14/french-motorcyclists-more-angry-than-ever/

Just watch the U-Tube footage....

Bring it on !!!

Liam Byrne

AlekSmart wrote: »

The use of Rhyming slang largely came about from various nationalities being crammed together in big cities worldwide and of themselves coming to use all manner of sounds and words to get their meanings across....It`s far from RACISM !! of itself.

What ? It's easier to say "Polish" than it is to say "sausage rolls".

And if you don't respect someone enough to say where they're from, then there IS an implied racism, which is what I said.

AlekSmart wrote: »

True racism would be what the OP THINKS about his non-national colleagues not what he calls them.

Agreed. But using stupid phrases to refer to "them" still implies disrespect.

P.S. For the record, I get out plenty, but thanks for your concern!

Dannyboy83

Read you post OP, I try not to come on this forum anymore because I get so frustrated at the corruption/incompetence of the Irish Politicians but I HAD to respond to this post:

I am native Irish, I speak Polish - reasonable, and Russian - not too bad.

My GF is Lithuanian, she worked here for 3 years, has been unemployed for 2.
She cannot get a red cent from this P-O-S country, since the day her job seekers benefit expired (after 12 months of unemployment).
I have an average or slightly above average salary, but an average salary divided by 2 = broke as a joke. I constantly live in my overdraft and credit card. We cannot afford to do anything or go anywhere.
I get up early and exercise before work, sometimes I skip it because I know I'll have bad thoughts about going to work for nothing and not having a penny for myself. It drives me fcuking erratic.
I would be better off getting fired and both of us being on welfare.
Anyone who lives with their partner is in the same boat - no JSA for you, regardless of how much tax you contribute!

I have loads of foreign friends.
They are by and large ignored by the Social Welfare offices, their applications seem to take way, way longer to process than natives.
'Positive Discrimination' I think they call it. This doesn't seem to happen so much in the city, but outside of the city its the usual thing.

I train regularly at the gym, there used to be a good crew of EE lads who would come for training. Now the place is furkin empty. There is only a few left, most of their buddies have emigrated to places like London, they had no intention of hanging around here on the dole.

I'm not saying the thing you described doesn't happen, but given that I speak their language and know a lot more of them than you, I'm pretty sure it must be rare if it is happening.
I know the manager of the local Tesco since childhood, I was trying to see if I could get some part-time work for the girlfriend, he was telling me recently that he couldn't get any Irish to work for him at all, financially it makes more sense for them to stay on the dole.

The big problem as I see it, is the lack of incentive for lazy Irish to get off the dole, as the dole and minimum wage are not that far apart.
The dole should definitely be reduced, by however much is necessary to make having a job attractive/or/NECESSARY again.
I really don't see why the hell I should be paying so much tax for people who spend half of their money at the pub anyway, in my unfortunate experience, while we limp from month to month trying not to get deeper into debt. I can't even afford to go to the doctor - if I was fired, I'd get a medical card, and I would cancel our health insurance (which rose by 12%, as did my car insurance, both from Quinn)

I think this bullsh1t with the JSA/means test and cohabitation should also be reviewed or else compensated by tax breaks similar to marraige, but I won't hold my breath........this is sh1tty ole Ireland after all.

This is a good read here by Ronan Lyons:
http://www.ronanlyons.com/2009/11/13/a-modest-proposal-for-preventing-the-foreign-people-in-ireland-from-being-a-burden-to-the-country/

Dannyboy83

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

Read you post OP, I try not to come on this forum anymore because I get so frustrated at the corruption/incompetence of the Irish Politicians but I HAD to respond to this post:

I am native Irish, I speak Polish - reasonable, and Russian - not too bad.

My GF is Lithuanian, she worked here for 3 years, has been unemployed for 2.
She cannot get a red cent from this P-O-S country, since the day her job seekers benefit expired (after 12 months of unemployment).
I have an average or slightly above average salary, but an average salary divided by 2 = broke as a joke. I constantly live in my overdraft and credit card. We cannot afford to do anything or go anywhere.
I get up early and exercise before work, sometimes I skip it because I know I'll have bad thoughts about going to work for nothing and not having a penny for myself. It drives me fcuking erratic.
I would be better off getting fired and both of us being on welfare.
Anyone who lives with their partner is in the same boat - no JSA for you, regardless of how much tax you contribute!

I have loads of foreign friends.
They are by and large ignored by the Social Welfare offices, their applications seem to take way, way longer to process than natives.
'Positive Discrimination' I think they call it. This doesn't seem to happen so much in the city, but outside of the city its the usual thing.

I train regularly at the gym, there used to be a good crew of EE lads who would come for training. Now the place is furkin empty. There is only a few left, most of their buddies have emigrated to places like London, they had no intention of hanging around here on the dole.

I'm not saying the thing you described doesn't happen, but given that I speak their language and know a lot more of them than you, I'm pretty sure it must be rare if it is happening.
I know the manager of the local Tesco since childhood, I was trying to see if I could get some part-time work for the girlfriend, he was telling me recently that he couldn't get any Irish to work for him at all, financially it makes more sense for them to stay on the dole.

The big problem as I see it, is the lack of incentive for lazy Irish to get off the dole, as the dole and minimum wage are not that far apart.
The dole should definitely be reduced, by however much is necessary to make having a job attractive/or/NECESSARY again.
I really don't see why the hell I should be paying so much tax for people who spend half of their money at the pub anyway, in my unfortunate experience, while we limp from month to month trying not to get deeper into debt. I can't even afford to go to the doctor - if I was fired, I'd get a medical card, and I would cancel our health insurance (which rose by 12%, as did my car insurance, both from Quinn)

I think this bullsh1t with the JSA/means test and cohabitation should also be reviewed or else compensated by tax breaks similar to marraige, but I won't hold my breath........this is sh1tty ole Ireland after all.

This is a good read here by Ronan Lyons:
http://www.ronanlyons.com/2009/11/13/a-modest-proposal-for-preventing-the-foreign-people-in-ireland-from-being-a-burden-to-the-country/

No offense but your gf isn't Irish so I don't see why you would expect her to receive social welfare after her stamps have run out. If that were the case then pretty much anyone could come here and claim social welfare, or else stay indefinitely while claiming.

If you're not Irish and you can't find work, then perhaps it's time to think about going home. I know your circumstances are different but the fact of the matter is that economic migrants should not be getting the dole once their stamps have run out.

Dannyboy83

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

No offense but your gf isn't Irish so I don't see why you would expect her to receive social welfare after her stamps have run out. If that were the case then pretty much anyone could come here and claim social welfare, or else stay indefinitely while claiming.

If you're not Irish and you can't find work, then perhaps it's time to think about going home. I know your circumstances are different but the fact of the matter is that economic migrants should not be getting the dole once their stamps have run out.

She worked here for 3 years, paid tax and contributed to this country.
Why shouldn't she be able to claim?

There are plenty of Irish layabouts who've never worked a day in their lives who are perma-dole, it's their career choice.

I wouldn't mind so much if she couldn't get anything if the rules were applied equally and fairly, thats what pisses me off so much.

Should you be entitled to assistance just because you were born here?
Or should you have contributed something?

About going home - that is whats happening by and large. Well, not so much going home, but leaving. Obviously that's not a possibility in our situation but I am doing my utmost to get funds together so I can emigrate to a country where you don't get raped for being middle class.

__________

wishwashwoo wrote: »

hello all i hope as many people as possible read this and please your friends as well. ok here it goes i am an irish guy 34 years of age no eduction at all buy i am very good with all things electric so i have a good job i am a sound engineer up untill today i have loved my country with all its quirkes but after today no more i mean it no more i am working on a big site in dublin city at 12.30 pm today i seen about 10 guys with bags and cases walking true the site i then seen one of the lads was one of the guys who was working along side me all week he is polish so i went and asked him was everything all right he said fine and then said something in his own language to his mate and they started to laugh so i walked off but i was still within ear shot what i heard next turned my stomach each and every one of them guys had just signed on the labour dole office and got there money for not working witch there were all working on this site then i heard them say fuc.... irish ticks we will take everything from them and we will leave them with noting and they all had a good laugh at this i could not take any more so i came out from around the corner and they tought no one had heard them well i did so i told them all that they would not work on this site again as i was going to tell the foreman what they were up to one of the guys told me to mind my own business well you inbreed piece of crap it is my business as my tax is keeping you in food and clothes and what ever so a coupe of the irish lads on the site started to here me shout at them so they came over and asked what was going on i told them and they went mad really mad so much so that the cops were called the cops turned up in force did they say or do anything to the sausage roles like **** they did we were the ones who they went for in the mean time i phoned the local dole office and told them that i know of 10 poles working on a site in dublin city centre and who were signing on as well what did this man say to me was his hands were tied even if i had video tape that there was notting he could do as to touch the poles was to ask for trouble in his job well what do you all think of that you and me would be locked up for less its a country going down the **** pipe and i am away as soon as possible and i urge any one else who feels the same to leave as well as its not the republic of ireland any more its the republic of poland and an irish man has no say

Jesus Christ.

Taxipete29

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

She worked here for 3 years, paid tax and contributed to this country.
Why shouldn't she be able to claim?

There are plenty of Irish layabouts who've never worked a day in their lives who are perma-dole, it's their career choice.

I wouldn't mind so much if she couldn't get anything if the rules were applied equally and fairly, thats what pisses me off so much.

Should you be entitled to assistance just because you were born here?
Or should you have contributed something?

About going home - that is whats happening by and large. Well, not so much going home, but leaving. Obviously that's not a possibility in our situation but I am doing my utmost to get funds together so I can emigrate to a country where you don't get raped for being middle class.

The co-habitation rule applies to all. She is hardly being discriminated against.

So you know for a fact that all long-term unemployed Irish people have never worked a day in their lives?? lets have your source on that one

So the crux of your point is you hate Ireland and want to leave. Did you hate this country when your GF was working and you were probably living quite comfortably?? Or when she was getting her JSB for a year along with Medical card, rent allowance etc??

Hotblack Desiato

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

She worked here for 3 years, paid tax and contributed to this country.
Why shouldn't she be able to claim?

She was, just not indefinitely.
How long on welfare should 3 years' work entitle you to? 3 years? Until you get out what you've paid in? Indefinitely?

Irish people don't have the right to go to live in any other EU country (except the UK which is very much an exception) and go live on the dole there forever, even if they've worked in that country.

There are plenty of Irish layabouts who've never worked a day in their lives who are perma-dole, it's their career choice.

Indeed and they should be cut off too.
It's called jobseeker's allowance, after all.

I wouldn't mind so much if she couldn't get anything if the rules were applied equally and fairly, thats what pisses me off so much.

I don't see any evidence of that in your post. Just because one does not like the rules, does not make the rules unfair.

Should you be entitled to assistance just because you were born here?

I would say no. But just because Irish citizens are entitled, doesn't mean every other EU national should be also.

AlekSmart

Agreed. But using stupid phrases to refer to "them" still implies disrespect.

The use of the "stupid phrase" is whether we like it or not,a defining element of modern Irish society.

When one is out,sit for 30 minutes on a Bus,DART or Luas and tune-in to the general conversation and attempt to count the Curses,Swear Words or other colourful phrases that are now the indigenous language.

To imply that the OP`s offhand use of Sausage Roll is equivalent to them being a confirmed racist is a leap too far in my humble.

It is often downright embarrassing to note the predilection of the Native Irish for cursing and swearing their way through normal conversation...it is definitely cringe inducing when one encounters groups of us in company with other english speaking people.

Quite what the Poles would make of it is another matter altogether.

Dannyboy83

Taxipete29 wrote: »

The co-habitation rule applies to all. She is hardly being discriminated against.

Thats correct, but anyone who lives with their partner is being discriminated against.
I had to quit my second job because I was paying so much on tax that I actually ended up working two months for free.
Yet on the other hand, she is not entitled to anything and I am not entitled to her tax credits because we are not married.
Its a trap, a very unfortunate one.

What makes me sick is that between PAYE, Car Tax and whatever else you want to factor in, I am paying out far more than she could even receive on JSA.

We've been trying for ages to get her a job but there is nothing out there.

My options are:
(i) work illegally in a 2nd job i.e. not pay tax etc. (difficult to find these days)
(ii) get fired and both of us live more comfortably on welfare
(iii) emigrate to a different country and both of us contribute to that society

So you know for a fact that all long-term unemployed Irish people have never worked a day in their lives?? lets have your source on that one

I didn't make that claim, hence so source.

But I do know plenty of long term unemployed who have never had a job.
And they are Irish.
Why does being Irish entitle you to welfare? or disability?;)

It is the Irish who are the burnden on this society, not the Eastern Europeans.

So the crux of your point is you hate Ireland and want to leave.

Yes, I do hate Ireland now.
Its massively unfair toward many of the people who contribute to society and massively rewarding to the people who are a burden on society.

The Irish have always had a very snobby attitude to toward Eastern Europeans so these threads don't surprise/irk me.
But what does surprise me is the lack of threads decrying the homegrown Irish layabouts who are a millstone around the neck of anyone trying to contribute to this society (regardless of your nationality) and an exponentially bigger burden than a handful of immigrants.
Reminds me of the Johnny Foreigner/BNP thing

Did you hate this country when your GF was working and you were probably living quite comfortably??

We were never comfortable, mainly just due to bad luck with timing but we weren't in debt and could afford to go to a restaurant once a month or take a holiday once a year.
Nothing extraordinary, but I don't have extraordinary expectations.

Back then, most of the people in the country were working.
The people who lose their jobs (and I mean Irish, not just Eastern Europeans) should be the ones packing their bags and looking to go elsewhere, looking for a job in another country, the way it has always been in the past!

Now, there are plenty of my friends who have packed their bags and emigrated. Skilled friends, the kind of people this country needs to hang onto.

I honestly think if I set out to design a system which would be detrimental to country, I couldn't do a better job than what they have currently done.

Or when she was getting her JSB for a year along with Medical card, rent allowance etc??

She was never entitled to rent allowance or a medical card.
But in this crazy system, if I lost my job, then we would be entitled to it.
I would be rewarded for being a burden on you and everybody else here paying tax.

Dannyboy83

AlekSmart wrote: »

Quite what the Poles would make of it is another matter altogether.

They do the exact same thing.
Every second word is "kurwa" or 'pierdelony', similar to fcuk.

Or with the Russians, 'Blat', similar to fcuk.

I agree, it is cringeworthy.

nialldeman

people u need to realise somebodys losing out with each decision so what ever decisions are made more than likely theres going to be somebody complaining for the next while anyways

Dannyboy83

ninja900 wrote: »

She was, just not indefinitely.
How long on welfare should 3 years' work entitle you to? 3 years? Until you get out what you've paid in? Indefinitely?

There are certain criteria that have to be met to avail of JSB.
The current method of assessing that generally makes sense in my opinion.
You cannot just claim JSB after 1 year or work, you have to have fulfilled certain criteria with regard to weeks worked over 3 years etc.

The 12 month cutoff with JSB makes sense in my opinion.
The indefinite run of JSA for people who fulfill the nonsensical criteria, does not.

JSB and JSA are far too high imo. They should be halved.
The people who make most of the contributions will probably never be entitled to it anyway as many of them are self employed or whatever.

Irish people don't have the right to go to live in any other EU country (except the UK which is very much an exception) and go live on the dole there forever, even if they've worked in that country.

My sister emigrated to Germany 18months ago.
She has a good job and a good salary.
She pays a lot of tax, but if she has to go to the doctor or whatever, everything is taken care of.

We pay a lot of tax and nothing is taken care of.
Not even the roads.
Couldn't you get some of dolies out of the pub on a Wednesday and get them to fill in a few potholes?

Indeed and they should be cut off too.
It's called jobseeker's allowance, after all.

I agree.
But that's not happening.
That's what pisses me off.

I don't see any evidence of that in your post. Just because one does not like the rules, does not make the rules unfair.

I don't get your point here.
I don't like the rules, I agree.
But either we have a meritocracy or a free-for-all.

Why should I agree to pay so much tax but then also agree not to benefit from any of it?
If I cannot benefit from any of the money I earn, then I would rather the money was burned instead of being given to the perma-dolies, we all know who they are, we went to school with them. You could plot the trajectory back then.

I would say no. But just because Irish citizens are entitled, doesn't mean every other EU national should be also.

I would say it has nothing to do with nationality.
Irish citizens should not be entitled.

If you contribute, then you should benefit.
If you leech from society, then expect nothing.

Apart from the unfortunates who have been unlucky in the last 2 years, the 'safety net' is generally only used by the same class of people anyway in the long term.

IrishManSaipan

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

I am native Irish, I speak Polish - reasonable, and Russian - not too bad.

My GF is Lithuanian, she worked here for 3 years, has been unemployed for 2.
She cannot get a red cent from this P-O-S country, since the day her job seekers benefit expired (after 12 months of unemployment).

I dare say she took more out of the system(204 x 52) than she put in.

Dannyboy83

IrishManSaipan wrote: »

I dare say she took more out of the system(204 x 52) than she put in.

Probably a fair comment.
But its likely the same applies to the vast majority of the recently unemployed over the last 2 years - Irish or otherwise, who benefited from JSB and are now benefiting from JSA.

Is it one rule for us and one rule for other people?
How does nationality come into it?

IrishManSaipan

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

Is it one rule for us and one rule for other people?

Hopefully.

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

How does nationality come into it?

You brought your Lithuanian girlfriend into the discussion, not me.

Dannyboy83

IrishManSaipan wrote: »

Hopefully.

Why?

You brought your Lithuanian girlfriend into the discussion, not me.

You misunderstood my point.
What about merit?

IrishManSaipan

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

Why?

We need to encourage recent arrivals to return home once they become unemployed.

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

What about merit?

Her stamps were exhausted, her dole was cut. Whats the problem here?

Dannyboy83

IrishManSaipan wrote: »

We need to encourage recent arrivals to return home once they become unemployed.

No, that's wrong.
We need to encourage dolies who leech off society to leave this country, irrespective of their nationality.
We need to encourage skilled people, irrespective of their nationality, to stay here and contribute.

The idea that you get special treatment because of your nationality or race caused a big war about 70 years ago, remember that one?
Its archaic.

Her stamps were exhausted, her dole was cut. Whats the problem here?

Did you even read my posts?
I don't think you did.

Have a read of all the stuff I said merit, and those contributing to society benefiting while those who leech should pack their bags like they did in every previous recession bar this one.

IrishManSaipan

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

No, that's wrong.

Why is it wrong?

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

We need to encourage dolies who leech off society to leave this country, irrespective of their nationality.

You are preeching to the choir here, Danny. Id happily slash the dole, especially for those who choose to stay unemployed during the property boom(circa 70,000).

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

We need to encourage skilled people, irrespective of their nationality, to stay here and contribute.

To stay here and contribute whilst claiming benefits?

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

The idea that you get special treatment because of your nationality or race caused a big war about 70 years ago, remember that one?
Its archaic.

Yes, repatriating non nationals who are a burden on the Irish state equates with World War 2. Good man.

dan_d

All,
Something to think about. I work on a building site. Like the OP, I know many polish and Irish workers. In my mind, they are equally good workers, but the attitudes can stink. Some (emphasising some) irish guys are so obsessed with their rights and what they are entitled to, they simply fail to see that they do little or nothing all day long, and shouldn't be entitled to very much anyway. Others are simply honest, hardworking lads who will do anything, as long as they get their days wages. (I should say that's normally the older guys with that attitude. The younger tend to have the "I want my rights, but no responsibility" attitude). The polish/hungarian/latvian etc are good workers mainly, but as with the irish, there's a few complete scroungers in there, who are useless.Same as anywhere.
Anyway. I digress. In January, 6 members of Revenue spent a week on our site collecting names, addresses and PPS numbers of everyone. To double check against the dole registers.
At that point I decided that maybe there was a little bit of hope in the fog, somewhere.

Dannyboy83

IrishManSaipan wrote: »

Why is it wrong?

Well, do you know what a meritocracy is?

You are preeching to the choir here, Danny. Id happily slash the dole, especially for those who choose to stay unemployed during the property boom(circa 70,000).

Well then we are agreed about that at least.

To stay here and contribute whilst claiming benefits?

I've covered all of this in my posts already, please do go back and read what I've already written.
If you have contributed to society and have skills, are seeking a job and need assistance, I don't have a problem. That's what its there for.

If you haven't contributed, or don't have skills, or aren't looking for a job, but expect me to pay hard earned tax, simply because you are Irish - erm, No.
(not referring to you specifically here btw)

Yes, repatriating non nationals who are a burden on the Irish state equates with World War 2. Good man.

LOL, try harder.
Repratriating non-nationals who are a burden on the Irish state, while giving special treatment to do-littles because of their nationality despite being a burden on the Irish state = racism and all that.
Unless you have another word for it? Untermensch?

Can I ask why you specifically said 'recent' arrivals?

Dannyboy83

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

Well, do you know what a meritocracy is?




Well then we are agreed about that at least.


I've covered all of this in my posts already, please do go back and read what I've already written.
If you have contributed to society and have skills, are seeking a job and need assistance, I don't have a problem. That's what its there for.

If you haven't contributed, or don't have skills, or aren't looking for a job, but expect me to pay hard earned tax, simply because you are Irish - erm, No.
(not referring to you specifically here btw)







LOL, try harder.
Repratriating non-nationals who are a burden on the Irish state, while giving special treatment to do-littles because of their nationality despite being a burden on the Irish state = racism and all that.
Unless you have another word for it? Untermensch?

Can I ask why you specifically said 'recent' arrivals?

I know what a meritocracy is. What exactly has your gf done that's of any merit? Working for a few years then staying on for over 2 years unemployed would never ever ever be rewarded in a meritocracy. What has she done to improve her circumstances? Has she re-trained? 2 years is a long time to be out of work.

If I go to Germany and work for a few years, should I be able to stay and claim welfare indefinitely?

Dannyboy83

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

I know what a meritocracy is. What exactly has your gf done that's of any merit? Working for a few years then staying on for over 2 years unemployed would never ever ever be rewarded in a meritocracy. What has she done to improve her circumstances? Has she re-trained? 2 years is a long time to be out of work.

If I go to Germany and work for a few years, should I be able to stay and claim welfare indefinitely?

You're right, it shouldn't be rewarded, even if my GF was Irish!!
Thats my point!

So why the special treatment for Irish do-lites?
Nationality is irrelevant here.
It has nothing to do with recent arrivals.
Its about people who contribute and people who leech.

One rule for the people who work and pay tax, and one rule for the dolites leeching off society and draging this country into the Atlantic.

Its bullsh1t.
We are going the same way as the UK, all the middle class will be gone to Canada and Australia, the country will be full of leeches from the bottom rung and insiders from the top rung, sinking evermore into debt.

(An an aside, my GF is trying to retrain but we have to pay ourselves and its likely we'll be taking those skills to any country anyway so it all evens out.)

(If you go to Germany and work for a few years, you shouldn't be able to stay and claim indefinitely, but neither should the German who has never worked and contributed nothing! You should be at least able to claim more than them! Judge things by their merit!)

IrishManSaipan

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

So why the special treatment for Irish do-lites?

During the boom times the number on JA/JB was circa 100,000. Take out Irish tavellers and those between jobs, those made redundant and those let go and the number of do-lites, your phrase not mine, would stand at 50,000(some non-Irish included in that figure too).

The number of do-lites in this country, whilst a problem, is grossly over exaggerated by some posters.

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

My GF is Lithuanian, she worked here for 3 years, has been unemployed for 2.
She cannot get a red cent from this P-O-S country, since the day her job seekers benefit expired (after 12 months of unemployment).

Is she a do-lite? She took multipes more out of the system than she paid in. Could you define what a do-lite is and put an actual figure on the number of do-lites in the country.

Thanks a million.

Dannyboy83

IrishManSaipan wrote: »

During the boom times the number on JA/JB was circa 100,000. Take out Irish tavellers and those between jobs, those made redundant and those let go and the number of do-lites, your phrase not mine, would stand at 50,000(some non-Irish included in that figure too).

The number of do-lites in this country, whilst a problem, is grossly over exaggerated by some posters.

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/slight-drop-in-live-register-448496.html
Seasonally adjusted figures show there are now 432,400 people claiming unemployment assistance.
This means the rate of unemployment now stands at 12.4%.

How is that not a major problem?

Social Welfare expenditure is circa €22 billion, in a country with a net income of circa €35 billion.
How is that not a major problem?


The vast majority of those claiming Welfare are not German, or EE or whatever else, they are Irish.

Refer to the graph and the article I've already posted twice in this thread.
Clearly it is the Irish who are the burden on this system, not the immigrants.

Is she a do-lite? She took multipes more out of the system than she paid in.

Indeed she was a do-lite for 12 months.
However, she is not a burden on the Irish system anymore, since we are not entitled to anything, despite me making massive contributions to other dolites who continue to live off my sweat.
I think they should also be encouraged to pack their bags and look for jobs.

Btw, as I've already mentioned, the vast majority of people (composed or Irish) take out more than they put in. The people making most of the contributions will never be able to avail of them.

Could you define what a do-lite is and put an actual figure on the number of do-lites in the country.

Could you answer the question I put to you first?


Why did you state specifically that 'recent' arrivals should go home?


Thanks a million.

Dannyboy83

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/slight-drop-in-live-register-448496.html
Seasonally adjusted figures show there are now 432,400 people claiming unemployment assistance.
This means the rate of unemployment now stands at 12.4%.

How is that not a major problem?

Social Welfare expenditure is circa €22 billion, in a country with a net income of circa €35 billion.
How is that not a major problem?


The vast majority of those claiming Welfare are not German, or EE or whatever else, they are Irish.

Refer to the graph and the article I've already posted twice in this thread.
Clearly it is the Irish who are the burden on this system, not the immigrants.




Indeed she was a do-lite for 12 months.
However, she is not a burden on the Irish system anymore, since we are not entitled to anything, despite me making massive contributions to other dolites who continue to live off my sweat.
I think they should also be encouraged to pack their bags and look for jobs.

Btw, as I've already mentioned, the vast majority of people (composed or Irish) take out more than they put in. The people making most of the contributions will never be able to avail of them.



Could you answer the question I put to you first?


Why did you state specifically that 'recent' arrivals should go home?


Thanks a million.

looks to me from the graph that there's about 80,000 unemployed non-nationals, compared to about 340,000 unemployed Irish people. Taking the population demographics as a whole with Irish people vs non-nationals that's actually quite scary as it would seem to me that there is a proportionally higher amount of unemployed non-nationals.

baalthor

ninja900 wrote: »

But just because Irish citizens are entitled, doesn't mean every other EU national should be also.

Under the rules of the EU, it does.

The welfare system (and job market) are not allowed discriminate based on nationality i.e. a country is not allowed give its own citizens preferential treatment or access to its welfare system.
Instead, countries can use "habitual residency" to determine if an applicant can apply for welfare. It's up to each country to determine what constitutes habitual residency but this must be applied the same way to everyone regardless of their nationality.
So an Irish person who has just returned to the country after living in Australia for several years would be treated the same way as a British or Polish person who has just arrived here.

In dannyboy83's case, his girlfriend meets the residency requirements but is not receiving UA because her household income (due to his salary) exceeds the limits prescribed by the means test. This has nothing to do with her nationality; if he was Lithuanian and she was Irish the outcome would be the same.

galway2007

boodlesdoodles wrote: »

Seriously and no offense meant: edit, use punctuation, use spellcheck or learn to spell and punctuate. You can't expect people to read a post that's written like a stream of consciousness. Seriously, though punctuation...

For F**K sake
You and Ef should be ashamed
he was doing his bit for the country and you pick on his education
Ireland is f****D when people like you waiting to comment on this guy
shame on you all for making comments on him you are no better than the polish in this statement