Direct Stream Recording

animaX

So I have a theory, and no, it's not a mathematical one

I've been thinking lately about doing direct stream recording in the xgc and how it would be done. There are a few options but without high end equipment like the hauppauge it has to be recorded in standard definition.

One option is to send the video signal to a device (DVD recorder, camcorder, computer) and then send the video signal back to the tv. However, my guess is that this must introduce some lag. I tried this in my parents during the week since they have a DVD recorder. The results were pretty good! Unfortunately I couldn't really tell if there was any lag because I was playing on a pad and wasn't used to it.

Before you watch the video, note that the sound is out of sync but this has nothing to do with the recording. The DVD and the vob files play perfectly, the sound somehow got out of sync when uploading the vobs directly to youtube. I'm sure a proper video editor software would fix that before uploading to youtube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDnG2o9cqqk

The other option is my theory. After some googling I read that the xbox can output in composite and component simultaneously at 480i! That means that in theory we could possibly send the component cable directly to the tv while sending the composite to the recording device and thus not introduce any lag to the game. The audio can easily be split. Of course, that also means that we would have to play games in standard def. (Or, as ramza pointed out, if the tv has a video OUT signal it could be sent to the recording device without the introduction of lag).

I'm thinking this might also ease the pressure on Doom and the great DoomCam. Also, my upload speeds from DCU would be pretty damn good so if there were 3 or more recording devices (DoomCam, sisko's cam and a direct feed for the last 8 maybe?) the vids would be up quicker. I just need to find the best way to get a DVD (or the vob files) up onto youtube without the audio going out of sync.

What do you think? I know that sisko and PPC might have some input here.

Doctor DooM

I was looking at buying that new HD recorder but TBH I am nervous about bringing even more expensive equipment into XGC.

Ramza

Great! But who would supply the PCs and stuff? And having just one recording hub on one console would mean everyone would try their best to jump on that one, just my opinion

I use a run of the mill USB recorder for my console gameplay videos. I record in 720x480 then I resize to 920x760 ( minimum for YouTube HD). I know technically it isn't HD but it makes for a much much beter viewing experience and when you think about it, there's not that much pixel stretching being done. Just a heads up that you don't really need that expensive/fancy of equipment unless you want really amazing results!

However I do play trough my capture device so it does add a small amount of lag, but I'm not playing FGs through them so it's not too bad. It's actually grand.

On the Xbox, you can plug one set of cables from TV - Xbox as standard, then another set of cables from TV - Capture device ; this would mean the device records what is seen on the TV and since you're not using a direct input there would be no lag!

I'd be more than willing to edit/compress/upload videos no problem if this becomes a reality, just pop the files on an externall HDD/Blank DVD and I could have all done within the night!

Doctor DooM wrote: »

I was looking at buying that new HD recorder but TBH I am nervous about bringing even more expensive equipment into XGC.

I think that with all the FG peeps on the one side of the room I doubt anyone would try and nick it

animaX

Ramza wrote: »

Great! But who would supply the PCs and stuff?

On the Xbox, you can plug one set of cables from TV - Xbox as standard, then another set of cables from TV - Capture device ; this would mean the device records what is seen on the TV and since you're not using a direct input there would be no lag!

I'd be more than willing to edit/compress/upload videos no problem if this becomes a reality, just pop the files on an externall HDD/Blank DVD and I could have all done within the night!

Well, we wouldn't need to bring a pc to the xgc. I was thinkin I could borrow the DVD recorder and bring it along, or if someone else has one. There'd always be someone on the machine so it's not like it could be taken.

That's a good point about the video OUT signal on the tv, never thought of that. Then again, I've never had a tv with a video out signal! I will check the xgc tv's tomorrow.

Doctor DooM

Pro tip- if we're doing this we also need a multi plug adapter as they turn off all but the absolute minimum.

Owwmykneecap

without a mixing desk and mics, it would be a bit dull without crowd noise.
The idea is better suited to a different venue in my onion, like the pub thing mentioned a while ago.

I think i can live stream on my phone, via qik. its availble on a lot of makes. and would save on editing and the like later. and the clips would be up a lot quiker than on youtube.... just a thought.

Sisko

This is something i've been looking at for awhile.

My camera can accept video feed directly into it. I can hook up my ps3 directly to my camera and play my ps3 using my camera screen for example

All I need to buy are some splitter cables so audio and video would go to a tv and my camera at the same time.

I'm not sure what the story is in XGC but it could easily be doable there and my camera has a big battery that lasts 300 minutes. (handy for saving socket space) Records on to tape in mini DV. Its pretty small and wouldn't get in the way.

Doom could then record the venue/crowd/players/audio and I can edit it all together NP.

Resulting in full quality vids mixed with reaction shots and crowd audio.

However getting every single match like this in a tourney would be waaaaay too much work so I reckon top 8 would be given the fancy treatment.

I hope to run a few tests and see what if I can have all this sorted before the next tourney.

Doctor DooM

We could record up to the top 8 the old fashioned way, and then we could make sure the last few fights are done super sisko style.

Sisko

Hehe well sure thats up to yourself doom if your happy still doing that, nothing stopping yea!

Doctor DooM

Sisko wrote: »

Hehe well sure thats up to yourself doom if your happy still doing that, nothing stopping yea!

I've done it in every tournament I've been at bar one so far, why would I stop now?

Sisko

yeah we deffo appreciate it man, I know not doing much editing speeds stuff up but its still an arse getting so many vids up. Its great to have as some crazy moments can happen in matches that are not necessarily the top 8.

Doctor DooM

Sisko wrote: »

yeah we deffo appreciate it man, I know not doing much editing speeds stuff up but its still an arse getting so many vids up. Its great to have as some crazy moments can happen in matches that are not necessarily the top 8.

True that but top 8 tends to get the big crowd responses, although you can get plenty good matche sin the group stages!

Ramza

Doctor DooM wrote: »

True that but top 8 tends to get the big crowd responses, although you can get plenty good matche sin the group stages!

Would be legit if we got **** going like in the American scene, with direct 1080p arcade recording :eek:

But even on console you can get same quality, but I think the price and practicality of it in XGC is just *thumbs down*

Sud be cool tho to see how this goes

Also for emulation (3s on laptops, maybe some ST even GAROU! :eek:), I can record video with fraps and set fraps to record external audio, i.e, button clicks, room noise, the sound of a piece of me dying inside when Tin 20 streaks me :pac:, stuff like that

Could put it all on my YT no problem

animaX

Owwmykneecap wrote: »

without a mixing desk and mics, it would be a bit dull without crowd noise.
The idea is better suited to a different venue in my onion, like the pub thing mentioned a while ago.

To be honest, I don't think crowd noise adds much in our xgc tournaments. Usually its too tense and you don't want to disrupt players by making too much noise (at least thats how i feel sometimes).

A pub tournament would have a more relaxed atmosphere and would have better crowd banter.

Owwmykneecap

I agree with you for the most part, I'd hate to put someone off and in xgc you're practically on their shoulder.

Talk to worstgiefever from neo empire, he has a fairly killer set up and knows the ins and outs of it. some of you probably met him in cannes

chunkis

good thread terry, live streaming of our tournaments would be the business

Sisko

animaX wrote: »

To be honest, I don't think crowd noise adds much in our xgc tournaments. Usually its too tense and you don't want to disrupt players by making too much noise (at least thats how i feel sometimes).

A pub tournament would have a more relaxed atmosphere and would have better crowd banter.

Even just basic clapping between rounds would just give the vid a more 'tourney feel' then a vid that only contains game audio.

Your right about disrupting players. I remember mentioning commentary for something to do down the line, but if we ever do get to that stage , imo it'd have to be done in a way so the players can't hear it. It'd put me off massively hearing people commentating on my fight, my tactics etc.

K.O.Kiki

Hey, I suck at the actual "fighting" bits. Can I do the commentary?

Sisko

If you want but this wont be happening for a long time ,I just looking further down the road.

1st we gotta start getting some presentable quality tourney matches on youtube similar to what we see from the US etc.

Dreddybajs

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

Hey, I suck at the actual "fighting" bits. Can I do the commentary?

you already do :pac:

Vyze

Sisko wrote: »

Your right about disrupting players. I remember mentioning commentary for something to do down the line, but if we ever do get to that stage , imo it'd have to be done in a way so the players can't hear it. It'd put me off massively hearing people commentating on my fight, my tactics etc.

Maybe I'm just odd, but I seem to play a lot better at Tekken whenever Roogle is offering up his hyped-out commentary. Or maybe he's just putting Simon off, I dunno.

Doctor DooM

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

Hey, I suck at the actual "fighting" bits. Can I do the commentary?

You and Ry, Ry's like the ultimate wrestling colour commentator, only funny!

You're the play by play guy. You're Jim Ross.


Sorry

Ramza

Doctor DooM wrote: »

Jim Ross

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTk2zF9gM5U

ftw :pac:

Doctor DooM

I'm seriously considering a hauppage. Would that be a one stop answer to our problem?

animaX

Doctor DooM wrote: »

I'm seriously considering a hauppage. Would that be a one stop answer to our problem?

There are pro's and con's as expected. Some good info here and here.

It appears that post-production would be a nightmare (adding intro's, titles, names etc).

Also, a guy on shoryuken has posted up some samples

Sisko

The cons wouldn't be much different from what I had to do to edit the footage doom put up before.

In otherwords convert them to a format I can edit in premiere.

Once downloaded from youtube I had to convert the files to mpeg before premiere would accept them. Would be the same deal with the h.264 files coming from that.


Of course I'm only talking about editing for youtube here. NOT streaming live to the web.

PPC

Doctor DooM wrote: »

I'm seriously considering a hauppage. Would that be a one stop answer to our problem?

I think the xbox's in XGC are using either hdmi or vga, so you'd need to bring a component cable awell.
I've a Hava Titanium that was used in this guide, its what i used for LP.ie 2, If you want to try it before you purchase the Hauppauge.
If things go well and lp.ie 3 runs this summer i'll hopefully have match streaming and a lagless projector stream. And i've a switcher box this time

If you want to go for the component/composite method, you can get dongles pretty easily, i bought one and planned to use it originally, but 480i looked pretty terrible to play on. You can pickup the dongles for about E5 off of ebay like this one.

Ideally if you want a smooth stream you'll have one laptop capturing the source and streaming it to another which will rencode using Adobe Flash Encoder and have that then stream to Ustream or the such.

Doctor DooM

The hava titanium sounds like it could be a solution PPC. I can just attach an external HDD to it, yeah?

PPC

You can, but you still need to have a laptop or pc to start recording which is annoying. Theres also no mac clients and it won't work via vmware

animaX

I just realised now that the Hauppauge doesn't have internal memory. I thought you could just save the videos in internal memory and then transfer to computer later.

Ramza

PPC wrote: »

If you want to go for the component/composite method, you can get dongles pretty easily, i bought one and planned to use it originally, but 480i looked pretty terrible to play on. You can pickup the dongles for about E5 off of ebay like this one

I use that exact dongle thing for my console recording, gets the job done fine for me anyway

Doctor DooM

http://www.kmscomponents.com/cnmlifestyle/mediaplayer/mediaplayer.htm


Young terrence just informed me this is on sale in Maplins. Looks perfick if there's no lag. removable hard drive + no laptop needed.

chopperbyrne

Well we currently have €87, so if anyone can find a decent review of it, then we could be in business.

animaX

Doctor DooM wrote: »

http://www.kmscomponents.com/cnmlifestyle/mediaplayer/mediaplayer.htm


Young terrence just informed me this is on sale in Maplins. Looks perfick if there's no lag. removable hard drive + no laptop needed.

Actually, there's even one for sale on adverts!

http://www.adverts.ie/showproduct.php?product=205244&cat=fav

Price in maplins was around 200 i think, down from 300. Also, I have about a tenner to add to the "scene pot" after the last two casuals. I'd say one more inferno would give us enough to purchase

Doctor DooM

animaX wrote: »

Actually, there's even one for sale on adverts!

http://www.adverts.ie/showproduct.php?product=205244&cat=fav

Get in there Terry

I think it's only got component out. But that would be ok if I am correct as we'd be getting a HDMI splitter as opposed to feeding the signal through to prevent lag. Right?

Kirby

Perhaps we should offer 90 quid and see what happens? Also, the person who comes to the most Tournies and casuals and rarely misses them should hang onto it in between meet ups. Because that way it will nearly always be available.

Doctor DooM

Kirby wrote: »

Perhaps we should offer 90 quid and see what happens? Also, the person who comes to the most Tournies and casuals and rarely misses them should hang onto it in between meet ups. Because that way it will nearly always be available.

Thats a good idea.


Now, who shows up and records the most stuff at these things?

Doctor DooM

animaX wrote: »

Actually, there's even one for sale on adverts!

http://www.adverts.ie/showproduct.php?product=205244&cat=fav

Price in maplins was around 200 i think, down from 300. Also, I have about a tenner to add to the "scene pot" after the last two casuals. I'd say one more inferno would give us enough to purchase

I can pay for it now and be owed back.

I was considering buying one anyway, but I'd be just as happy to not to

Dreddybajs

I doubt anyone will have a problem with you holding onto the equipment in between events Doom, will pass the 85 euro I have onto you next time I see you.

Doctor DooM

The manual is REALLY vague as to if it can record from HDMI in.



http://www.maplin.co.uk/Media/PDFs/A45JH%20Manual.pdf

chopperbyrne

Sagat06 has generously offered his €16 winnings from the random 2s tournament to the HD-Recorder pot.

I'll give it to whoever is purchasing the equipment when next I see them.

I would do the same, but I spent it on booze and battered mars bars!

animaX

Doctor DooM wrote: »

The manual is REALLY vague as to if it can record from HDMI in.

Looking at the manual i don't even see component in (although i thought i saw it in the shop).

Assuming there is component in (Y/Pb/Pr), doesn't that support 1080 anyway so we don't need HDMI?

Doctor DooM

animaX wrote: »

Looking at the manual i don't even see component in (although i thought i saw it in the shop).

Assuming there is component in (Y/Pb/Pr), doesn't that support 1080 anyway so we don't need HDMI?

Yes although that IS an assumption right now.

Do we really need HD, in any case? Are Ropey's vids/ Leim's vids HD?

animaX

Doctor DooM wrote: »

Do we really need HD, in any case? Are Ropey's vids/ Leim's vids HD?

No, i just thought you were looking for a HD recorder. The vid on the first page is a standard composite connection.

I posted on the recording threads on SRK to see if anybody has experience with this device but there have been no replies yet.

Doctor DooM

animaX wrote: »

No, i just thought you were looking for a HD recorder. The vid on the first page is a standard composite connection.

I posted on the recording threads on SRK to see if anybody has experience with this device but there have been no replies yet.

Getting a bit confused now- standard composite you mean the standard av red whit eand yellow connections, yeah?

If so, I think we can use a standard output from xbox/ps3 to recording device and then whatever usuall HD solution for the screen?

chopperbyrne

Can they display to two at a time?

Fairly certain the PS3 can only give video output from one source at a time.

animaX

Doctor DooM wrote: »

Getting a bit confused now- standard composite you mean the standard av red whit eand yellow connections, yeah?

If so, I think we can use a standard output from xbox/ps3 to recording device and then whatever usuall HD solution for the screen?

Sorry yeah, composite being the red white yellow. It seems like thats the only input available on the device?

In that case we could use the 6-connector xbox cable

which actually transmits both composite and component signals simultaneously at 480i resolution (the Y/Pb/Pr direct to tv, the red/white/yellow direct to device). Although this would be lag free and the recordings would be the same quality as the vid on the first page, it would mean that we would have to play the game on the HD tv at 480i resolution.

To be honest, now that it looks like the device only has red/white/yellow input i think it might not be the best option. There would be similar cheaper options out there. I could be wrong though

Doctor DooM

Confirmed:

'Q- i was wondering with this item can you recorde gameplay footage from the PS3/xbox with out been connected to a computer like most other capture cards on the market today then transfer them to the computer later thanks - Matt

Answer- Yes the product does support that.

Q- what connection does this have for recording? - Dave G

Answer- The unit has a composite video connection for recording (such as the yellow, white and red phono connections commonly found on many AV units).

'

So it is less than ideal unless there's a component/ composite splitter.

animaX

Hmmm composite recording only. I think i dvd recorder would do the same job (especially one with internal harddrive) for probably half the price.

Dreddybajs

Yeah, that doesn't seem like a great deal to me if it doesn't do HD.

Sisko

yeah the way I was looking to try it with my camera would be composite only too.


Anyway I think lag free is the most important thing to look for rather then HD. Ease of editing too. I wouldn't be too hung up on HD myself.

btw that 6 connector 360 cable, does that come as standard? That'd work with my camera anyway.