Are we as a society taught to fear men?

Jenneke87

Sunday evening 22.15 I was walking home, dragging a 20 pound suitcase with me that contained stuff I needed for a photoshoot that day. I had managed to miss my last bus home and with no money for a taxi, decided I'd walk the 4 mile home. It wasn't that late yet and since I'm a fast walker, it should take no more that an hour/75 min, I reckoned. I think I was walking for about 10 minutes when a car pulled up beside me. The driver was a man whom I estimate was somewhere in his 40-ties, ordinairy looking and he offered me a lift. For a moment I hesitated. It would save me the long walk home hauling a heavy suitcase, but then I started to doubt. I remembered how my parents taught me never to go into a stranger's car,because you'll never know what they might do, magazines that tell you that men who do this are up to no good, you could end up raped and death somewhere.....Open any random magazine and you'll be bombared with stories of woman who were abused by their boyfriend/husband, movies portray it, it's on the news and the radio and so on.....

When I got home it got me thinking. Perhaps this man didn't had any dark intentions. Perhaps he really was sincere in helping me out. Was I right in mistrusting him or was it because society teaches us to fear people like this man, especially when they are men......?

I'd like to hear other people's thoughts on this.

Giselle

I fear men's possible dark intentions more than I fear those of women, because men are more likely to be able to physically overpower me. I am more vulnerable with an male stranger than I am with a female one.

Generally that is, but I accept not always.

I think the age of information overload has instilled a huge fear of crime and victimisation and men in general are victims of that.

They are especially (almost uniquely) the victims of paedo-hysteria.

That said, I wouldn't accept a lift from either a strange woman or a strange man.

miec

Hi Op

It is probable he was being helpful and therefore harmless but sadly the fear of taking that chance is too great because he could be that minority who carries out those dark deeds. The sad thing is you have no way of truly knowing so it is safer to assume the worst.

I do think that women are taught to fear men and the perceived threat of violence against women by men is over exaggerated and the actual threat of men attacking other men is under exaggerated. For instance if I had two teenage children, one male and one female, I would worry more about my son than my daughter because he is more likely to be beaten up, stabbed, etc, whereas society tends to focus on the dangers against women. I bet the vast majority of men here on boards has experienced some form of violence, possibly once, twice or even more. It is the rare man who has not experienced some form of violence.

Women are warned not to walk alone at night, to go in groups etc, that we could be raped at the drop of a hat by a stranger, yet the evidence suggests that it is lovers, exs, family members, friends or a husband who can pose a greater risk to the woman than a stranger.

aidan24326

Jenneke87 wrote: »

Sunday evening 22.15 I was walking home, dragging a 20 pound suitcase with me that contained stuff I needed for a photoshoot that day. I had managed to miss my last bus home and with no money for a taxi, decided I'd walk the 4 mile home. It wasn't that late yet and since I'm a fast walker, it should take no more that an hour/75 min, I reckoned. I think I was walking for about 10 minutes when a car pulled up beside me. The driver was a man whom I estimate was somewhere in his 40-ties, ordinairy looking and he offered me a lift. For a moment I hesitated. It would save me the long walk home hauling a heavy suitcase, but then I started to doubt. I remembered how my parents taught me never to go into a stranger's car,because you'll never know what they might do, magazines that tell you that men who do this are up to no good, you could end up raped and death somewhere.....Open any random magazine and you'll be bombared with stories of woman who were abused by their boyfriend/husband, movies portray it, it's on the news and the radio and so on.....

When I got home it got me thinking. Perhaps this man didn't had any dark intentions. Perhaps he really was sincere in helping me out. Was I right in mistrusting him or was it because society teaches us to fear people like this man, especially when they are men......?

I'd like to hear other people's thoughts on this.

Overall I think your post is a bit OTT. Not all men are out to get you, those types only make up a small minority. However, i do think you may have been right in this instance to refuse his offer. Chances are he was just an ordinary guy offering an innocent lift to a stranger, but it's hardly worth the risk for the sake of walking a couple of miles. If my girlfriend was offrered a lift by a random strangeer late at night I'd probably want her to say no thanks.

Elle Collins

No - We're taught by men to fear men.

For those who'll choose to find this assesment objectionable, I suggest a quick glance at the ever-rising sexual assault statistics in this country.

aidan24326

Elle Collins wrote: »

No - We're taught by men to fear men.

Sorry but that's just feminist nonsense. I thought we'd gone past that. You've been reading too much Germaine Greer. You don't need to fear anybody beacuse of gender. (there are, however, other good reasons). Come on in to the 21st century, it's great.

who the fug

The inverse is true, as I would not stop in case I be called creepy or a pervert etc

Elle Collins

aidan24326 wrote: »

Sorry but that's just feminist nonsense. I thought we'd gone past that. You've been reading too much Germaine Greer. You don't need to fear anybody beacuse of gender. (there are, however, other good reasons). Come on in to the 21st century, it's great.

You conveniently didn't repeat these words though, did you?

"For those who'll choose to find this assesment objectionable, I suggest a quick glance at the ever-rising sexual assault statistics in this country."

I don't need Germaine Greer or anyone else to tell me what it's like living as a woman in the 21st century. You need to take a look outside your own experience of life and realise how a great number of woman are caused real and legitimate fear by the actions of men every day.

The 21st century might be great for men but you might give a thought to what it's like for a woman. I've survived two rape attempts and agressive unwanted advances too numerous to count. The people who behaved this way towards me had two things in common: They were all strangers and they were all male.

aidan24326

Elle Collins wrote: »

You conveniently didn't repeat these words though, did you?

"For those who'll choose to find this assesment objectionable, I suggest a quick glance at the ever-rising sexual assault statistics in this country."

I don't need Germaine Greer or anyone else to tell me what it's like living as a woman in the 21st century. You need to take a look outside your own experience of life and realise how a great number of woman are caused real and legitimate fear by the actions of men every day.

The 21st century might be great for men but you might give a thought to what it's like for a woman. I've survived two rape attempts and agressive unwanted advances too numerous to count. The people who behaved this way towards me had two things in common: They were all strangers and they were all male.

I'm really sorry to hear that you had that happen to you. I can see why you might feel the way you do. But most guys aren't like that, so it would be a pity of your opinion of men was forever coloured by the experiences you've had (and to be honest I wouldn't entirely blame you if it was).

But I know lots of girls and I can't think of any who've endured rape attempts, at least not that I know of. I know one girl who has a pattern of dating sh1thead men, but that's at least partly her own fault for attracting the wrong types. So why do you think it is that you have had so much negative unwanted male attention, culminating in rape attempts? I'm not saying it's your fault or anything, but that does seem unusual. Men like that tend to prey on girls who already have low self-esteem. If that's not the caee with you then I apologise for the assumption.

vicecreamsundae

aidan24326 wrote: »

I'm really sorry to hear that you had that happen to you. I can see why you might feel the way you do. But most guys aren't like that, so it would be a pity of your opinion of men was forever coloured by the experiences you've had (and to be honest I wouldn't entirely blame you if it was).

But I know lots of girls and I can't think of any who've endured rape attempts, at least not that I know of. I know one girl who has a pattern of dating sh1thead men, but that's at least partly her own fault for attracting the wrong types. So why do you think it is that you have had so much negative unwanted male attention, culminating in rape attempts? I'm not saying it's your fault or anything, but that does seem unusual. Men like that tend to prey on girls who already have low self-esteem. If that's not the caee with you then I apologise for the assumption.

wow what a fcuked up assumption to make. are you ACTUALLY asking her to identify what it is about HER that ATTRACTED rapists?!?
it was probably just the fact she is a woman. i know many women who have been attacked or raped, and some of them were the most confident, secure women you could meet. to suggest that a woman with low self esteem "attracts that kind of attention" is disgusting.
when a woman is raped it is NOT because she is shy/quiet/loud/sexy/or anything else. it is because the man is a RAPIST.

with an attitude like yours, i can't imagine your female friends would be falling over themselves to share any of their negative experiences with you.


men rape.
men are the only ones who can stop rape.
nobody thinks all men are rapists, and of course i love men, but to say that women have been taught to fear men by men is absolutely correct. it is the actions of men that have caused some women to trust men less than women.
when men stop raping women, maybe i'll be happy to hop into a car with any guy who offers me a lift. but for now, i'll play it safe and not feel guilty or sexist for refusing to get into a car with a strange man.

me_right_one

vicecreamsundae wrote: »

wow what a fcuked up assumption to make. are you ACTUALLY asking her to identify what it is about HER that ATTRACTED rapists?!?
it was probably just the fact she is a woman. i know many women who have been attacked or raped, and some of them were the most confident, secure women you could meet. to suggest that a woman with low self esteem "attracts that kind of attention" is disgusting.
when a woman is raped it is NOT because she is shy/quiet/loud/sexy/or anything else. it is because the man is a RAPIST.

with an attitude like yours, i can't imagine your female friends would be falling over themselves to share any of their negative experiences with you.


Some men rape.
Rapists are the only ones who can stop rape.
nobody thinks all men are rapists, and of course i love men, but to say that women have been taught to fear men by men is absolutely correct. it is the actions of some men that have caused some women to trust men less than women.
when rapists stop raping women, maybe i'll be happy to hop into a car with any guy who offers me a lift. but for now, i'll play it safe and not feel guilty or sexist for refusing to get into a car with a strange man.

Good post. I just fixed a few bits there for you, after you going on about assumptions and all that;)

dsmythy

Elle Collins wrote: »

You conveniently didn't repeat these words though, did you?

"For those who'll choose to find this assesment objectionable, I suggest a quick glance at the ever-rising sexual assault statistics in this country."

I don't need Germaine Greer or anyone else to tell me what it's like living as a woman in the 21st century. You need to take a look outside your own experience of life and realise how a great number of woman are caused real and legitimate fear by the actions of men every day.

The 21st century might be great for men but you might give a thought to what it's like for a woman. I've survived two rape attempts and agressive unwanted advances too numerous to count. The people who behaved this way towards me had two things in common: They were all strangers and they were all male.

Sorry to hear after your unfortunate experiences. However if you are asking us to look at statistics then you will find them telling you that men are more likely to be assaulted randomly on a street than women are. Usually of course by other men. Murder rates will show this too.

Memnoch

I think it's sad that things have come to this. Have people become more evil and dangerous over the past 40-50 years, or is it just our perception?

The advent of modern media and technology while greatly enriching our lives has also engendered a kind of social isolation. What happened to the time where people spent their free time in parks and on walks, talking to their neighbours and belonging to communities? All that has been eroded.

Now we live in a culture of fear. So much to be afraid of, so much to go wrong. This is heightened and exploited by media, whether film, television or news, who profit from facilitating our obsession with what MIGHT go wrong. We've completely shackled ourselves. TRUST NO ONE. I'm not sure what is cause and effect anymore.

Sadly, things aren't at their worst... keep following this train of thought and logically, there is only one place we will end up...

http://aroomofourown.wordpress.com/2010/03/17/access/#comments

A penis is a ****ing weapon… and I AM a mother of 3 sons! My youngest is 5 and I can tell you, I never allow the older teen boys to bathe him, sleep in the same bed with him, see him naked, sit on their laps, babysit, wrestle or any interaction that involve more than a hug. Do I think my older sons will rape him? In my heart no ,but in my mind I know it can happen because they have a ****ing penis and a penis is a weapon. Might sound harsh to some but my job is to protect my kids even from each other. I was the same way when the older boys were younger… no staying over friends house were there are older boys or men. No staying over my brother’s house( my brother loves them and in my heart I know he would not hurt them, but he also has a penis which is a ****ing weapon. Only female doctors. Never fully trust any man with a penis. Not their father, uncles, teachers … no one.

I cannot even fathom how vigilant I would have been if my children were females.

What is most frightening is how the above isn't that far away from some of the things already mentioned in this thread.

AARRRGH

I think we are taught to fear strangers (in particular male strangers), and we know most violent crimes are commited by men, but personally I have had more "psycho" experiences with women than men. The women may not have been violent, but my god they were unstables bitches. So personally I would be a lot more worried about women then men. But I can understand why women in particular need to be careful around men, even men they know well, as most rapes are commited by people you know.

miec

You've been reading too much Germaine Greer.

I wouldn't knock Germaine Greer too much, in her book 'The Whole Woman' she argues that it is women who are taught to fear going out at night but that it is men who are actually assaulted more than women, she was arguing against the way the media focuses on the dangers posed to women and ignoring the actual dangers to men.

Having said that any person who has been raped or abused has not brought it on themselves because they had low self esteem etc, it is because the rapist in question wanted to rob them of their power.

A penis is a ****ing weapon… and I AM a mother of 3 sons! My youngest is 5 and I can tell you, I never allow the older teen boys to bathe him, sleep in the same bed with him, see him naked, sit on their laps, babysit, wrestle or any interaction that involve more than a hug. Do I think my older sons will rape him? In my heart no ,but in my mind I know it can happen because they have a ****ing penis and a penis is a weapon. Might sound harsh to some but my job is to protect my kids even from each other. I was the same way when the older boys were younger… no staying over friends house were there are older boys or men. No staying over my brother’s house( my brother loves them and in my heart I know he would not hurt them, but he also has a penis which is a ****ing weapon. Only female doctors. Never fully trust any man with a penis. Not their father, uncles, teachers … no one.

I cannot even fathom how vigilant I would have been if my children were females.

Comments like this deeply worry me, this woman attaches far too much power to the penis, it is not that fricking powerful. A man might be able to take my body in the hope to penetrate my mind and rob me of my power but I can choose to heal from it and overcome it, therefore returning my own power back to myself. A penis is just another human organ and it is time that women like this should cop on. Her attitude heightens this issue. I agree with other posters that we have to take a more balanced view to life and safety, if we just hide away we may as well give up.

Giselle

miec wrote: »

Comments like this deeply worry me, this woman attaches far too much power to the penis, it is not that fricking powerful. A man might be able to take my body in the hope to penetrate my mind and rob me of my power but I can choose to heal from it and overcome it, therefore returning my own power back to myself. A penis is just another human organ and it is time that women like this should cop on. Her attitude heightens this issue. I agree with other posters that we have to take a more balanced view to life and safety, if we just hide away we may as well give up.

So, so, soo easy to say.

One's ability to choose the depth and quality of healing is dependent on many factors. Its not a choice one simply does or does not make.

The woman quoted is unhealthily fixated however.

Exile 1798

Jenneke87 wrote: »

Sunday evening 22.15 I was walking home, dragging a 20 pound suitcase with me that contained stuff I needed for a photoshoot that day. I had managed to miss my last bus home and with no money for a taxi, decided I'd walk the 4 mile home. It wasn't that late yet and since I'm a fast walker, it should take no more that an hour/75 min, I reckoned. I think I was walking for about 10 minutes when a car pulled up beside me. The driver was a man whom I estimate was somewhere in his 40-ties, ordinairy looking and he offered me a lift. For a moment I hesitated. It would save me the long walk home hauling a heavy suitcase, but then I started to doubt. I remembered how my parents taught me never to go into a stranger's car,because you'll never know what they might do, magazines that tell you that men who do this are up to no good, you could end up raped and death somewhere.....Open any random magazine and you'll be bombared with stories of woman who were abused by their boyfriend/husband, movies portray it, it's on the news and the radio and so on.....

When I got home it got me thinking. Perhaps this man didn't had any dark intentions. Perhaps he really was sincere in helping me out. Was I right in mistrusting him or was it because society teaches us to fear people like this man, especially when they are men......?

I'd like to hear other people's thoughts on this.

We tell our children not to talk to strangers. Why? Most people are decent.

If a child is lost and approaches a stranger for help there is an overwhelming chance that that stranger is trustworthy. However, if a stranger approaches a child then the likelihood of that stranger having bad intent is much higher then if the child randomly selected someone.

The same if a woman asks a strange man for help she almost certainly will receive it without any trouble as most men are good and decent. However in the case of a strange man approaching a woman to offer his help the simple probability that that man has ill intent is much higher, although still relatively low.

So I think your natural instinct to be cautious at someone who approaches you is quite correct, and doesn't mean that you have a fear of men in general.

Kiwi_knock

As kids we are taught not to talk to strangers but this is typically meant to mean not to talk to men you do not mean. Parents seem to see no harm in placing more trust in females with their children than males. This conception is based on the media, you hear most weeks of males arrested for inappropriate behaviour with young children. This media coverage have led all parents and most children to view any strange adult (with particular emphasis on mlaes) who talks to kids has having an ulterior disturbing motive. Long gone are the trustworthy days were you would let your kid wander off for hours and know he was safe. Most parents know keep a watchful eye on the childrens activities and then when they get older they use a mobile to stay in contact. We as a society are taught to fear strangers in particular men.

There is a widespread fear of strangers nowadays when you get older, which seems rather silly to be saying. People scared of other people when your an adult should be ridiculed but they are not. Instead it is commonplace that you fear the unknown people, you always feel wary around people you do not know. A defense mechanism sets in and you formulate ways of getting out of a particular scary situation for you. This fear of people has been created by the media. You hear daily of people killed randomly outside their houses, these stories make you feel scared within your own environment. Every stranger near your area is a potential attacker. The stories of people killed by so called samaritans (people offering you help with a ulterior motive) make you feel uneasy when some stranger approaches you with an offer of help. You go into defensive mode until you can determine that their motive is honest. However these days it his so hard to determine if someone is being benevolent or is there malevolent undertones.

Basically the media has fostered in society a feeling that you can not trust strangers because their motives are often unclear.

prinz

who the fug wrote: »

The inverse is true, as I would not stop in case I be called creepy or a pervert etc

This.

Have been at the receiving end of those names a couple for simple acts like offering to help a girl with luggage, asking a crying girl if she was alright etc.

Just from a different angle, being a man. I'm tall, skinny, and physically rather weak.

I've had more violent attacks from women in my life than from men. Sure, I've been beaten rather badly by 7 guys one time, and I've been put in hospital from a mugging in Australia (also by a guy), but overall the number of times I've been attacked (without serious cause) have been from women more so than men.

Sure, some men are dangerous. But so too are some women. This blanket sign that women place on men is traditional. Give us another thirty years, and its likely women will have a similar reputation. Maybe not for rape, but for senseless group violence/attacks.

Exile 1798

Deleted User wrote: »

Just from a different angle, being a man. I'm tall, skinny, and physically rather weak.

I've had more violent attacks from women in my life than from men. Sure, I've been beaten rather badly by 7 guys one time, and I've been put in hospital from a mugging in Australia (also by a guy), but overall the number of times I've been attacked (without serious cause) have been from women more so than men.

Sure, some men are dangerous. But so too are some women. This blanket sign that women place on men is traditional. Give us another thirty years, and its likely women will have a similar reputation. Maybe not for rape, but for senseless group violence/attacks.

Your experience is atypical.

Male on male violence is the most common form of serious assault followed by male on female.

I think it's highly unlikely that women will earn a reputation for the kind of random, senseless violence that men have a reputation for. Yes there's a cultural element, but it's also an instinctual aspect in maleness.

Exile 1798

Exile 1798 wrote: »

Your experience is atypical.

Male on male violence is the most common form of serious assault followed by male on female.

I think it's highly unlikely that women will earn a reputation for the kind of random, senseless violence that men have a reputation for. Yes there's a cultural element, but it's also an instinctual aspect in maleness.

Why? The numbers of assault instigated by women has been on the rise for years. Just as the recognition of abuse in the home by women towards men has also finally been accepted, and has started to be acted upon. There is a cultural perception that women are not violent by nature which is not true, any more so that men are more prone to violence. Sure.. if you base it entirely on past statistics recorded by gender you can show more men being involved, but these statistics don't show the lack of reports made against women, or the level of response by official sources made by men.

There have been threads in the past on boards.ie regarding spousal abuse by women towards men and the reactions (or lack thereof) of official sources to such claims. Our society pushes forth the idea that women are vulnerable and men are aggressive. Which is plainly not true.

As for this instinctual response, I've never felt it... its just another old fashioned generalisation that has never been updated to modern standards. Unless you can show me some research done in the last few years which supports your statement, and please don't send me military reports. They're hardly representative of the general population.

Exile 1798

Just because some women are violent and some men are not at all doesn't discredit the perception.

You say you haven't felt the male instinctual pull to violence in yourself, but you've surely observed it growing up, at school and in the streets of Cork.

Victor

Elle Collins wrote: »

The 21st century might be great for men but you might give a thought to what it's like for a woman. I've survived two rape attempts and agressive unwanted advances too numerous to count. The people who behaved this way towards me had two things in common: They were all strangers and they were all male.

And as a child I was kidnapped by a woman and (other than those by my peers) all my greatest humiliations were by women.

So, different experiences, that prove nothing about whole populations.

Exile 1798

Exile 1798 wrote: »

Just because some women are violent and some men are not at all doesn't discredit the perception.

It doesn't? Why?

You say you haven't felt the male instinctual pull to violence in yourself, but you've surely observed it growing up, at school and in the streets of Cork.

Ahh school... I grew up in Athlone. I was bullied in both schools I went to. Was put in hospital three times by the age of 12. I never shave my head, considering the host of scars I have. So, yes, I can safely say I have experienced it firsthand. IS it worth mentioning that my sister had similar experiences to myself from the hands of girls in her school(s)?

But the interesting thing about school was that it only took one fight (aged 17) to show that I had learned to defend myself to stop all the aggression. (Admittedly putting the boy in hospital, but hey, if thats what it takes?) The truly unfortunate thing is that when attacked by a woman, I'm unable to employ similar defensive measures due to the perception that women need to be nurtured and protected (regardless of the manner of heir attack).

As for the streets of Cork or any other streets... I've already stated that I've had more violent encounters with women than men, but that was.... atypical.

The thing I find so "funny" is that for all the talk about equality, its amazing the area's that women are unwilling to consider being our equals in.

Victor

http://aroomofourown.wordpress.com/2010/03/17/access/#comments

A penis is a ****ing weapon… and I AM a mother of 3 sons! My youngest is 5 and I can tell you, I never allow the older teen boys to bathe him, sleep in the same bed with him, see him naked, sit on their laps, babysit, wrestle or any interaction that involve more than a hug. Do I think my older sons will rape him? In my heart no ,but in my mind I know it can happen because they have a ****ing penis and a penis is a weapon. Might sound harsh to some but my job is to protect my kids even from each other. I was the same way when the older boys were younger… no staying over friends house were there are older boys or men. No staying over my brother’s house( my brother loves them and in my heart I know he would not hurt them, but he also has a penis which is a ****ing weapon. Only female doctors. Never fully trust any man with a penis. Not their father, uncles, teachers … no one.

I cannot even fathom how vigilant I would have been if my children were females.

I have to ask, is that androphobia or homophobia?

(under the flimsy auspices of never having suspected the male in question to be capable of rape, despite his possessing all the equipment necessary to do so).

And all women are prostitutes because the have the necessary equipment? Hardly.

Exile 1798 wrote: »

The same if a woman asks a strange man for help she almost certainly will receive it without any trouble as most men are good and decent. However in the case of a strange man approaching a woman to offer his help the simple probability that that man has ill intent is much higher, although still relatively low.

I've found myself saying "hello" to toddlers on the bus and helping lost tourists with their maps, but all too often people shy away from this.

Exile 1798 wrote: »

I think it's highly unlikely that women will earn a reputation for the kind of random, senseless violence that men have a reputation for. Yes there's a cultural element, but it's also an instinctual aspect in maleness.

Which is more relevant to modern violence - instinct or drinking 5-15 pints?

Victor

Victor wrote: »

http://aroomofourown.wordpress.com/2010/03/17/access/#commentsI have to ask, is that androphobia or homophobia?

God, that's disturbing.

Exile 1798

Deleted User wrote: »

It doesn't? Why?

Ahh school... I grew up in Athlone. I was bullied in both schools I went to. Was put in hospital three times by the age of 12. I never shave my head, considering the host of scars I have. So, yes, I can safely say I have experienced it firsthand. IS it worth mentioning that my sister had similar experiences to myself from the hands of girls in her school(s)?

But the interesting thing about school was that it only took one fight (aged 17) to show that I had learned to defend myself to stop all the aggression. (Admittedly putting the boy in hospital, but hey, if thats what it takes?) The truly unfortunate thing is that when attacked by a woman, I'm unable to employ similar defensive measures due to the perception that women need to be nurtured and protected (regardless of the manner of heir attack).

As for the streets of Cork or any other streets... I've already stated that I've had more violent encounters with women than men, but that was.... atypical.

The thing I find so "funny" is that for all the talk about equality, its amazing the area's that women are unwilling to consider being our equals in.

In case you were unsure, I'm a man.

The only thing I believe that is unfair to men on the topic of male violence is how little realisation there is that most of the victims of that violence are men themselves. There is endless concern for women, but as someone said earlier in the thread knowledgeable parents are more concerned about their sons then their daughters when they go out and about. I certainly would be.

I got into fights at school and yes, if you showed you could stand up for yourself they ended. Chimpanzees do the same thing.

I couldn't count the number of times as a young man I had blokes attempt to provoke me into a fight in public. Luckily I'd evolved to the point where my mind could do a logical cost/benefit analysis of the value of getting into a fight with some guy on the street. I could overcome the overwhelming urge I had to want smash in the face of the guy who had just purposefully blown his cigarette smoke into mine.

Similar has happened to me in three continents - Europe, North America and Australia. I can't say I've ever encountered this behavior from women, and yes it would be quite atypical.

Elle Collins

aidan24326 wrote: »

...I know lots of girls and I can't think of any who've endured rape attempts, at least not that I know of. I know one girl who has a pattern of dating sh1thead men, but that's at least partly her own fault for attracting the wrong types. So why do you think it is that you have had so much negative unwanted male attention, culminating in rape attempts? I'm not saying it's your fault or anything, but that does seem unusual. Men like that tend to prey on girls who already have low self-esteem. If that's not the caee with you then I apologise for the assumption.

It is actually beneath me to respond to this.

Elle Collins

dsmythy wrote: »

Sorry to hear after your unfortunate experiences. However if you are asking us to look at statistics then you will find them telling you that men are more likely to be assaulted randomly on a street than women are. Usually of course by other men. Murder rates will show this too.

And this knowledge is supposed to make women more comfortable around men..... how exactly?

Elle Collins

vicecreamsundae wrote: »

...with an attitude like yours, i can't imagine your female friends would be falling over themselves to share any of their negative experiences with you.


men rape.
men are the only ones who can stop rape.
nobody thinks all men are rapists, and of course i love men, but to say that women have been taught to fear men by men is absolutely correct. it is the actions of men that have caused some women to trust men less than women.
when men stop raping women, maybe i'll be happy to hop into a car with any guy who offers me a lift. but for now, i'll play it safe and not feel guilty or sexist for refusing to get into a car with a strange man.

Thank you for your post vicecreamsundae. You know, I think men would be very very surprised if they knew the true percentage of women who have at any time been sexually molested by a man. The statistics tell us that one in four people (this is including women and men) have been sexually abused, but in my experience the percentage is FAR higher among women. I could give dozens of examples of this, the most recent one being a dinner I had with three women I know. Two of these women were older than my by two and three decades respectively and the other was younger by about five years (I'm mid-thirtes). We all had dinner and a few drinks and got talking about the experiences of our lives. Long story short, of that one in four situation, I was the only one who hadn't been raped, and only because I was lucky enough to have fought my attackers off.

There is nothing surprising in any of this for me. I've heard stories like this so often I'm sorry to say it's become as routine as being told somebody is planning a fortnight in Spain. Another recent example is an early-forties friend of mine who two months ago was spiked in the early hours of the morning at a house party in her own sisters home. She collapsed after three drinks and woke up on her sisters sofa at around 4.30am being raped by a male guest at the party. As she came to conciousness and tried to push him off he slapped and bit her back and neck repetitively and so hard through her clothes that she was brusied for two weeks. She then collapsed again and woke again to see him walking out the door. She took a violently hysterical reaction, had no idea where she was (while she was in her own sisters home!) rang a taxi company screaming that she didn't know where she was but she had to get out of there.

Long story short, she was drugged and raped that night, but did she report it? - did she hell as like, because she knew what was ahead of her if she did because shock-horror - she had consumed alcohol and was wearing a short skirt.

One of the major reasons men don't know how widespread sexual abuse experiences are among their own sisters, mothers, partners and daughters is because women know that on divulging them they will find themselves on the recieving end of the sort of offensive and derogotory 'you must have had it coming' comments as have been evidenced on this thread.