The problem with Caprica is......

Richard Dower

[fill in the blank] - imo?, lack of coherent direction and story arc, too much soapy teen drama, lost of filler scenes that overall don't seem to connect.

+ lack of Tricia Helfer.

54kroc

Hmmm......Tricia Helfer,Time for a bathroom break.

Anyway it's an awful show, I read that they are working on another spin-off It might be an idea to just cancel Caprica now and focus on the new show.

Goodshape

The religion aspect is sometimes hard to chew. Not sure is that's really going anywhere worthwhile.. praying (heh) it's not just there to offer another "god did it" get-out.


Everything else I'm more or less happy with. Grown to really like the show after getting over the initial "eh, this isn't Battlestar" hump.

dead air

I would agree with Goodshape here. I'm not a fan of the whole one-true-God thing in Caprica but I disliked that aspect of BSG also.

I'm starting to get a better picture of where Caprica is heading after the last few episodes. I think it's worthwhile sticking with it.

GSPfan

Caprica ain't the problem. You are.

ei.sdraob

i actually quite like Caprica

its nice sci-fi (syfy ) series so far

i mean ok it doesnt have spaceships and space battles etc,
but its unique in the way it explores technology and human interaction, the whole V-world thingie for example, thats something that we can very well have within 100 years or so here too

as an atheist the religious aspect doesnt bother me, its an interesting spin on things, its quite unlikely that we would do away with religion ever

GSPfan

ei.sdraob wrote: »

i actually quite like Caprica

its nice sci-fi (syfy ) series so far

i mean ok it doesnt have spaceships and space battles etc,
but its unique in the way it explores technology and human interaction, the whole V-world thingie for example, thats something that we can very well have within 100 years or so here too

as an atheist the religious aspect doesnt bother me, its an interesting spin on things, its quite unlikely that we would do away with religion ever

Couldn't agree more. As an atheist I find religion as make believe as Caprica itself but sure its entertaining to watch. I'm happy with the show. It is what it is.

somuj_2

The same as Stargate Universe. Every program cant cater to everyones taste. If you don't like then don't watch it.

Biggins

cork45 wrote: »

Hmmm......Tricia Helfer,Time for a bathroom break.

Anyway it's an awful show, I read that they are working on another spin-off It might be an idea to just cancel Caprica now and focus on the new show.

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/cult/news/a208949/syfy-eyeing-new-battlestar-spinoff.html

suiecyco

a crap tv show. Its an insult to call it a bsg prequal, old series or new.

_Kaiser_

I've given up on it completely at this stage. I don't like prequels generally (Star Wars, Enterprise etc), but I gave it 4/5 episodes and just got bored with most of what the OP describes.

Now if they'd started with the imminent rebellion of the cylons and the kick-off of the first war, THAT I would've watched (mostly because I still love the classic 70s centurions, raiders and base stars! )

Oh well...

_Kaiser_

Biggins wrote: »

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/cult/news/a208949/syfy-eyeing-new-battlestar-spinoff.html

Translation: We've made a boo-boo on Caprica and we know it, so it'll be cancelled and replaced with something that'll make us some more money?

Richard Dower

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

I've given up on it completely at this stage. I don't like prequels generally (Star Wars, Enterprise etc), but I gave it 4/5 episodes and just got bored with most of what the OP describes.

Now if they'd started with the imminent rebellion of the cylons and the kick-off of the first war, THAT I would've watched (mostly because I still love the classic 70s centurions, raiders and base stars! )

Oh well...

Agreed...i wanted to see the originals Cylons and ships, big battle scenes of the original Cylon attack.

Fenster

I have episodes piling up on my hard disk that I should watch. I see the family soap on Caprica as equivalent to the communication stones on SG:U: Something that is really dragging the show down and keeping away from its intended focus.

kowloon

Why are they trying to make a BSG franchise after all the messing about with the mother show itself?

FreudianSlippers

Fenster wrote: »

I have episodes piling up on my hard disk that I should watch. I see the family soap on Caprica as equivalent to the communication stones on SG:U: Something that is really dragging the show down and keeping away from its intended focus.

I think the problem with SG:U is slightly different. On SG:U, NOTHING.... EVER.... HAPPENS!
Basically they wrote one script akin to one of those MadLibs books (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mad_libs) and they just fill in the blanks every week. "oh no we're stuck on a hot/cold/jungle/etc planet gathering water/food/biscuits and something has happened! Will we make it back to the ship before it leaves?"
Every week, same thing with different characters. The only interesting part of the story is when they use the stones (and I'll admit I'm using the word interesting very loosely here).

At least, on Caprica, they have a story they want to tell and they are doing the preliminary foundations on which the show will grow. It was easier on BSG because they could spend 80% of the time building characters and telling the story and intermix 20% explosions and danger and it kept people happy. Caprica is not meant to be BSG, but what they can do to fix Caprica is at least remind us that it is the same universe (showing the vipers in episode 8 was helpful). Zoe needs to tell her parents she's in there because it would be cool to see if maybe Greystone had a hand in making humanoid cylons in an attempt to make a new body for Zoe.

FreudianSlippers

james finn wrote: »

I GOT BANNED BECAUSE I SAID I AGREE WITH KEVIN MYERS ON A KEVIN MYERS THREAD. WHAM I GOT BANNED,

I ALSO GOT BANNED BECAUSE I SAID UNMARRIED FATHERS SHOULD HAVE EQUAL RIGHTS.

I ALSO GOT BANNED BECAUSE I SAID BANKERS ALONE ARE NOT TO BLAME FOR THE WAY OUR COUNTRY IS TODAY,

SHAME ON NOW YE'RE TALKIN'??? BULL

maybe you got banned for thread hijacking?

Biggins

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

Translation: We've made a boo-boo on Caprica and we know it, so it'll be cancelled and replaced with something that'll make us some more money?

If they suspect it might come to a rapid end, I hope they have the good sense to negotiate a few more episodes if only to try and wrap things up a bit.
I'd like to see more but I fear the American TV decision makers might start whispering "cut!" before they finally shout it.

FreudianSlippers

Biggins wrote: »

If they suspect it might come to a rapid end, I hope they have the good sense to negotiate a few more episodes if only to try and wrap things up a bit.
I'd like to see more but I fear the American TV decision makers might start whispering "cut!" before they finally shout it.

The good thing is that it is on SyFy... any other channel and it'd be ****ed from the start

somuj_2

Its just about to get so good. I sense it.

Scráib

I think with Caprica they could change the direction of the show if they want.

Yes they've made the first Cylon and they're explaining how they believe in the 'one God' philosophy and that's... semi-interesting.

What I wouldn't mind seeing would be for it to jump forward a few years, Cylons are everywhere, suddenly they go mental and the war begins. Yer man who designed the Cylons feels grief-stricken and designs the first Battlestar, the Colonial government is formed, and then it's all about the war.

And let's face it, we who are into sci-fi really, really like spaceships, large explosions and large explosions involving spaceships. I do!

FreudianSlippers

Scráib wrote: »

I think with Caprica they could change the direction of the show if they want.

Yes they've made the first Cylon and they're explaining how they believe in the 'one God' philosophy and that's... semi-interesting.

What I wouldn't mind seeing would be for it to jump forward a few years, Cylons are everywhere, suddenly they go mental and the war begins. Yer man who designed the Cylons feels grief-stricken and designs the first Battlestar, the Colonial government is formed, and then it's all about the war.

And let's face it, we who are into sci-fi really, really like spaceships, large explosions and large explosions involving spaceships. I do!

I could be wrong, but I have the feeling they already have battlestars. I only say this because in "The Imperfections of Memory"

when Zoë and Philomon are on their date in v-world, he takes her up to fly Vipers...

and from what I understand about the cannon, Vipers are designed specially to be used in battlestars (the launch tubes).

But I do agree... if they need to fix the show by adding space battles, they could. The question is more likely whether or not they will or should. Caprica was not meant to be another BSG... the writers may be more willing to get Caprica go and start fresh than force space battles into this show

Richard Dower

Does Caprica have the budget for spaceships and battles....that's the real question!

FreudianSlippers

Richard Dower wrote: »

Does Caprica have the budget for spaceships and battles....that's the real question!

I don't see why not... they made some serious money for SyFy through BSG, and I think the fanbase is there and the potential for earnings are there that if they needed space battles they could get them. The amount of CGI work that already goes into Caprica is top notch and extensive already, so they're not exactly underfunded.

noodler

Battlestars have to be around all ready. Theres going to be a Cylon war in about 4 years - we know it wasn't fought with sticks and stones.

Scráib

Battlestars have to be around all ready. Theres going to be a Cylon war in about 4 years - we know it wasn't fought with sticks and stones.

I don't think they are. It's stated in the BSG miniseries that the Battlestars were designed specifically to fight the cylons, and they were built without networks so as not be vunerable to cylon attacks. Only 12 were built for the cylon wars (one for every colony) too, so all this implies that they weren't built at the time Caprica is set and that there weren't that many of them around int he first cylon war anyway.

There are 12 colonies in Caprica, but no unified colonial government and hence no colonial fleet.

I'm going to assume that every colony has it's own force, when the cylon uprising occurs the existing military forces get badly beaten and the battlestars are built out of necessity. Also in BSG there's references to Galactica having corners cut when she was built, so I'm thinking they were rushed into production.

@OisinT: I'd agree that it wouldn't be the best idea if they changed the nature of the series. If they want to do a Cylon war then they probably need to start again.

FreudianSlippers

Scráib wrote: »

I don't think they are. It's stated in the BSG miniseries that the Battlestars were designed specifically to fight the cylons, and they were built without networks so as not be vunerable to cylon attacks. Only 12 were built for the cylon wars (one for every colony) too, so all this implies that they weren't built at the time Caprica is set and that there weren't that many of them around int he first cylon war anyway.

There are 12 colonies in Caprica, but no unified colonial government and hence no colonial fleet.

I'm going to assume that every colony has it's own force, when the cylon uprising occurs the existing military forces get badly beaten and the battlestars are built out of necessity. Also in BSG there's references to Galactica having corners cut when she was built, so I'm thinking they were rushed into production.

@OisinT: I'd agree that it wouldn't be the best idea if they changed the nature of the series. If they want to do a Cylon war then they probably need to start again.

I think you're right

Galactica entered service in the early years of the Cylon War... One of the first twelve Battlestars built, Galactica represents the Colonial planet Caprica. In the re-imagined series, there were about 120 Battlestars in service prior to the Cylon attack.

Upon watching "The Imperfections of Memory" again, the Vipers are different and much more similar to jets of today.

I'm a bit confused about the whole network thing though - I thought the newer vipers had networks and were vulnerable to Cylons and that's why Galactica survived really due to the old Vipers not being "fly by wire".

Scráib

I'm a bit confused about the whole network thing though - I thought the newer vipers had networks and were vulnerable to Cylons and that's why Galactica survived really due to the old Vipers not being "fly by wire"

I'm guessing a lot here, but the Vipers Galactica had were 'Mark II' models. So maybe the Mark I's were also fly-by wire, they realized they were useless against the cylons and built the Mark IIs. Doesn't explain how the newer Mark VII's in BSG had fly by wire again though.

I just saw a pic of the Vipers from that episode, very crude-looking compared to the BSG vipers, which is how they should be!

noodler

Scráib wrote: »

I don't think they are. It's stated in the BSG miniseries that the Battlestars were designed specifically to fight the cylons, and they were built without networks so as not be vunerable to cylon attacks. Only 12 were built for the cylon wars (one for every colony) too, so all this implies that they weren't built at the time Caprica is set and that there weren't that many of them around int he first cylon war anyway.

There are 12 colonies in Caprica, but no unified colonial government and hence no colonial fleet.

I'm going to assume that every colony has it's own force, when the cylon uprising occurs the existing military forces get badly beaten and the battlestars are built out of necessity. Also in BSG there's references to Galactica having corners cut when she was built, so I'm thinking they were rushed into production.

@OisinT: I'd agree that it wouldn't be the best idea if they changed the nature of the series. If they want to do a Cylon war then they probably need to start again.

Good point.

OisinT wrote: »

I'm a bit confused about the whole network thing though - I thought the newer vipers had networks and were vulnerable to Cylons and that's why Galactica survived really due to the old Vipers not being "fly by wire".

Also a good point.


Does anyone reckon its different for TOS and the reimagined?

There are obviously battlestars in the Razor flashbacks and I guess it is possible that they built them during the war, how long did the war last btw?

It is weird though - why upgrade Galactica era ships so that they can be networked? I am guessing the Cylons were a little less hi-tech in the first war.

bazz26

According to battlestar galactica wikipedia the first cylon war lasted around 12 years.

It is also plausable that technology advanced very quickly during this war similar to during WWII.

Looking at the recent episode where we see vipers in the v world it looked like they were not intersteller vipers and rather similar to fighter jets used currently on Earth for the last few decades.

noodler

bazz26 wrote: »

Looking at the recent episode where we see vipers in the v world it looked like they were not intersteller vipers and rather similar to fighter jets used currently on Earth for the last few decades.

Just ti play Devil's advocate, I would say it is perfectly logical they would have some sort of inner-planet flight travel like those types of vipers or even that the old vipers would could be used inner planet.

Obviously I don't know, I just always thought that Battlestars were not something you coudl concieve and build in 12 years. However, the war being the mother of all invention argument is valid and it would also explain what we know about the first Cylon war being fought alot on ground level (that painting in Adama's for example).

On the otherside though, we know two things (kind of) that inter colont ships of some kind exist now. Now I would argue there has to be some military presence to go along with this but of course these don't have to be Battlestars. The second thing is that somebody told me the Cylons stole colonial ships in TOS to make their own.

Heineken_Baron

Going by last nights epsiode the series is just getting interesting with everything beginning to fall into place. The next few epsiodes should really make or break the show for me, but I'm happy with it for the moment. It was never going to be BSG T-50 years.

FreudianSlippers

Yeah, a good question has been raised by noodler. How are they getting from planet to planet at the moment?

I'm thinking it's some sort of starliner like Colonial One in BSG

FreudianSlippers

bazz26 wrote: »

Looking at the recent episode where we see vipers in the v world it looked like they were not intersteller vipers and rather similar to fighter jets used currently on Earth for the last few decades.

Definitely correct.


From battlestar wiki:

Capable of atmospheric flight, the Mark VII is the front-line variant of the Viper design, retaining the Mark II's general layout but adding fully integrated avionics that provide superior battle management and flight information for the pilot.

Ironically, it is this incorporation of new integrated systems that prevents the majority of Mark VIIs from being effective during the Cylon attack: as with the majority of Colonial Fleet, the Mark VIIs suffer fatal computer system failures on contact with Cylon forces. Thanks to a Cylon agent's relationship with Dr. Gaius Baltar, scientist and programmer of the navigation software project, the navigational software in use on board most Colonial Fleet vessels contains back-doors that allow the Cylons to infiltrate a vessel's computers by wireless signals and to disable its power systems. Though this problem can be overcome by removing the navigational upgrade compromised by the Cylons, the information is not discovered in time to benefit the surprised and hard-pressed Colonial forces.

Just as a side note is that an old raptor we see in the most recent episode?

johnnysmack

There must be full interplanetary ships there and if there is civilian ships you can bet there is definitely military ships. And i think everyone is forgetting that the 12 tribes all came from Kobol. . . so how did they get to each planet if not by space ship!

noodler

johnnysmack wrote: »

T And i think everyone is forgetting that the 12 tribes all came from Kobol. . . so how did they get to each planet if not by space ship!

Ah, now while I am in no doubt there are ships (one of the plot points is getting the robot to Geminon FFS) I would say that the ships may have had to be dismantled when they first showed up to set up towns etc.

robby^5

I thought it was obvious that they have spaceships and probably some form of battlestar (maybe not called a battlestar), just that it's a production choice to not have them appear in the show so that Caprica can build it's own identity away from BSG and a good way to do that is have no Battlestar(s) in it.

They have space travel and they have the pre-cursor to the Battlestar (the airship) so why wouldnt they already have Battlestars? Especially when their politicians seem pretty keen on having the latest military technology (the cylons) and they've had civil wars. I'd be suprised if they hadnt already adapted the airship for space. But that said

I'd guess that the Mark I would be around about now and then the Mark II would be introduced closer or during the war.

johnnysmack

noodler wrote: »

Ah, now while I am in no doubt there are ships (one of the plot points is getting the robot to Geminon FFS) I would say that the ships may have had to be dismantled when they first showed up to set up towns etc.

ya i would agree with that but even now they appear to have the technology to have decent space ships. They may not be battlestars as we know them but you have to think that they do have some big honking space guns and ships at the minute. How far away is the first war, 10-15yrs? A ship like galactica would take years to design and build even with a war making you work harder and faster then normal.

FreudianSlippers

johnnysmack wrote: »

There must be full interplanetary ships there and if there is civilian ships you can bet there is definitely military ships. And i think everyone is forgetting that the 12 tribes all came from Kobol. . . so how did they get to each planet if not by space ship!

according to the battlestar wiki, the 12 tribes came from Kobol in ships that were not FTL capable - which is why it took 2000 years

johnnysmack

OisinT wrote: »

according to the battlestar wiki, the 12 tribes came from Kobol in ships that were not FTL capable - which is why it took 2000 years

They're still capable of space travel arent they?

FreudianSlippers

johnnysmack wrote: »

They're still capable of space travel arent they?

well... obviously. I never said they werent?

noodler

When they arrived they might have been, but how many years pass from then and now, did they have to dismantle the ships, surely the wouldn't have the ability to build more?

johnnysmack

OisinT wrote: »

well... obviously. I never said they werent?

sorry that came out bit wrong. i just meant they have the technology for space ships, FTL or not, for long time.

Scráib

One thing that I've been wondering about is the Base Star. Where did they come from? Were they the human ships initially taken by the cylons or were they purpose-built during the war like the Galactica?

Gurgle

Wasn't the whole point of the Galactica (& the other battlestars during the 1st war) that they took a big step backwards technologically, because the current fleet (as of caprica series) was so vulnerable to the cylons' hacking.

They had to build the equivalent of valve electronics in order to fight the cylons at all.

noodler

Scráib wrote: »

One thing that I've been wondering about is the Base Star. Where did they come from? Were they the human ships initially taken by the cylons or were they purpose-built during the war like the Galactica?

Brought this up a million times myself.

Are there proper bases stars (obv not reimagine series ones) by the time of the razor flashbacks?

I would put forward a theory that the Cylons start building stuff secretly on one of the colonies before the war starts.

noodler

Gurgle wrote: »

Wasn't the whole point of the Galactica (& the other battlestars during the 1st war) that they took a big step backwards technologically, because the current fleet (as of caprica series) was so vulnerable to the cylons' hacking.

They had to build the equivalent of valve electronics in order to fight the cylons at all.

But Pegsus is a massive step up from Galactica in power etc and yet it has such vunerabilities.

Gurgle

noodler wrote: »

But Pegsus is a massive step up from Galactica in power etc and yet it has such vunerabilities.

Wasn't it more susceptible to nukes than hackers?

noodler

Gurgle wrote: »

Wasn't it more susceptible to nukes than hackers?

But the whole crux of the Cylon plan was to disable the ships and thereby allowing said nuking?

I am not sure what you mean? Everything is susceptible to nukes but when you can get your shots off without fear of interception or retaliation then that is what really mattered in this context. no?

I mean they went from ships without networks (Galactica) to ships with Networks (Pegasus and every other Battlestar wiped out in the initial attack).

Maybe we have a writer's hole here - I do remember something in the mini-series about the Galactica not being susceptible to the wireless attacks but then why on earth would they build that weakness into all the other ships?

omniscient_toad

I can't quite recall when or if it was specifically mentioned but from what I recall the implication was that in the time since the previous Cylon war had ended the colonies had become complacent and the stringent limitations imposed on ship technology in the midst of a war of survival had lapsed with many believing the Cylons would never be seen again. The description of the diplomat yearly sent to the neutral space station to meet a Cylon emissary who never appeared (until Six made her rather dramatic entry) seemed to portray it as something performed almost by rote, an empty ritual no one expected anything to come of. I guess it was more or less a case of out of sight out of mind.

Gurgle

noodler wrote: »

I do remember something in the mini-series about the Galactica not being susceptible to the wireless attacks but then why on earth would they build that weakness into all the other ships?

Because the Cylons were gone