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referendum to decide the future of the church

  • 16-03-2010 07:36PM
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 384 ✭✭


    We need a census now on how many actual catholics there are in this country. Children under 18 should not be included in this census as they are too young to vote or join an army, therefore they are too young to be included.

    Then we need to insist on a referendum to decide the future of the churches inclusion in government and continuing involvement in education.


    However
    With the church now imploding from sexual scandals all across Europe and the deafening silence from the pope, and the inability of anyone in the "worlds largest paedo ring" to acknowledge this without sounding crass the government should immediately remove the church from the contolling the primary schools and instigate criminal investigation into all its diocese's.


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Comments

  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 7,944 Mod ✭✭✭✭Yakult


    Being a athiest rocks


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,783 ✭✭✭Hank_Jones


    Also Atheist.

    Prefer my fairy tales to have witches and goblins..


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,165 ✭✭✭✭brianthebard


    We're not that kind of republic.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,620 ✭✭✭✭dr.fuzzenstein


    I just can't understand why anyone still pays any heed to what comes out of this medieval relic of an organisation.
    The only goals of the church where getting rich and controlling people and if you abused a few of them along the way, sure what does it matter.
    Dissolve the organisation and don't allow any of them to leave the country pending an investigation.
    No better than Nazis (who the church secretly supported by the way).
    The worst ones should be hung.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,462 ✭✭✭MaybeLogic


    It's not a constitutional matter, it's an ecumenical one.


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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The church is dying out.

    Another 20/30 years and not much attention will be paid to them.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,578 ✭✭✭DublinWriter


    rarnes1 wrote: »
    The church is dying out.

    Another 20/30 years and not much attention will be paid to them.
    Oh, we said that back in the early 80's...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,370 ✭✭✭✭Son Of A Vidic


    Oh, we said that back in the early 80's...

    A lot of sh1t has happened since the early 80's unfortunately. People are finally seeing the church for the corrupt, hypocritical institution it really is.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,783 ✭✭✭Hank_Jones


    To be honest I actually thought that the majority of people around my age were atheist. Or at least they didn't have much interest in religion.

    Unfortunately after speaking to a few people about religion, it appears that a large number of people hold religious beliefs (however small they may be).

    I think people are just afraid of change.

    Boards just doesn't represent real Ireland, unfortunately.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,239 ✭✭✭✭Pherekydes


    Children under 18 should not be included in this census as they are too young to ...join an army...

    You can join the army at 16 with parental permission, or 17 without.


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  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 19,242 Mod ✭✭✭✭L.Jenkins


    And what age range would you be in Hank. Im 25 and an Athiest myself.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,940 ✭✭✭Corkfeen


    Hank_Jones wrote: »
    To be honest I actually thought that the majority of people around my age were atheist. Or at least they didn't have much interest in religion.

    Unfortunately after speaking to a few people about religion, it appears that a large number of people hold religious beliefs (however small they may be).

    I think people are just afraid of change.

    Boards just doesn't represent real Ireland, unfortunately.

    Most of my year doesn't really think about religion. One is a major believer while I'd say most of my mates don't believe in anything.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,595 ✭✭✭bonerm


    I already vote on this matter every day of my life by:
    a) not designating myself a catholic
    b) not visiting thier establishment of worship
    c) not contributing financially to their concerns.
    d) not spreading their views or teachings among the people I encounter.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,595 ✭✭✭bonerm


    rarnes1 wrote: »
    The church is dying out.

    Another 20/30 years and not much attention will be paid to them.

    You'd think that but people still get old and sick and scared every year.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,475 ✭✭✭✭Blazer


    bonerm wrote: »
    You'd think that but people still get old and sick and scared every year.

    There's an old war saying "There are no atheists in foxholes" :)
    It beggars belief (to me at least) that people still believe in this crap.
    My own thoughts are that religion was and always will be a means of controlling people and ensuring the boys at the top have a nice rich life while the rest of the followers wallow in the shít.
    And yet even with all the crap going on in the church regarding the sex abuse I still see people going to mass every Sunday :confused: Must be the closer you get to death the more religious you get...kinda cover your ass just in case ;)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,124 ✭✭✭✭bnt


    Plenty of discussion of this on the A&A forum, of course.

    To me it's simple: freedom of religion includes the freedom not to have a religion imposed on you. The only way the govt. can keep everyone happy, in religious matters, is to be strictly neutral i.e. church/state separation from the Constitution on up. There are so many religions around, how do you know which of them is the right one? :rolleyes:

    You are the type of what the age is searching for, and what it is afraid it has found. I am so glad that you have never done anything, never carved a statue, or painted a picture, or produced anything outside of yourself! Life has been your art. You have set yourself to music. Your days are your sonnets.

    ―Oscar Wilde predicting Social Media, in The Picture of Dorian Gray



  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,077 ✭✭✭Rebelheart


    R_H_C_P wrote: »
    Being a athiest rocks

    With all their certainty and zealousness, atheists are little, if any, better than religious believers. The irony.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,123 ✭✭✭stepbar


    That would be a 'Father Jack' matter!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,547 ✭✭✭Agricola


    Rebelheart wrote: »
    With all their certainty and zealousness, atheists are little, if any, better than religious believers. The irony.

    They dont prop up an organised paedophile ring though so they're ok in my book


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,213 ✭✭✭dave 27


    im neither a catholic or a church goer, im a protestant..but still pray for family and friends before i hit the sack, i think many people fall into this category..in relation to catholism..so eventhough people arent going to mass doesnt necessarily mean the religion is dying out


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,650 ✭✭✭✭minidazzler


    A Census isn't going to tell you the truth.

    There are people who go directly against Catholic Doctrine, but still say they are Catholic and would say so on census forms.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,072 ✭✭✭PeterIanStaker


    I'd love to say that its days are numbered, but its going to drag on another decade or two. Unfortunately. But, the upcoming generation, those under 40, should discard it as a way of making progress and not victimising any more innocent children.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,298 ✭✭✭lightspeed


    Hank_Jones wrote: »
    To be honest I actually thought that the majority of people around my age were atheist. Or at least they didn't have much interest in religion.

    Unfortunately after speaking to a few people about religion, it appears that a large number of people hold religious beliefs (however small they may be).

    I think people are just afraid of change.

    Boards just doesn't represent real Ireland, unfortunately.

    whats wrong with people having religious beliefs as long as they dont dictate and try to forces their beliefs on you?
    im not religious but it does not bother me if somebody has a religion.
    if atheists dictate their belief of not having a religion then what makes atheism any different than any other religion?
    there are athesist organisations and it seems to be one of the most active forums and its based on believing nothing? i have no idea why a religion based on nothing has an organisation and theres probably even books on it somehow?
    i find it hilarious that most people i know that believe in god never discuss or bother about religion and yet atheists that i have met seem to be often ravaging on and on about their religion. Why cant atheists just not believe in god an shut up about it? for me religion is like time travel. I dont know time travel does not exist but im yet to see it and i never think about it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,727 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    A Census isn't going to tell you the truth.

    There are people who go directly against Catholic Doctrine, but still say they are Catholic and would say so on census forms.
    So why not run a campaign to change the minds of those voters and relay to them the importance of not identifying Catholic for the sake of Identifying Catholic.

    A Baptism, Confirmation, etc. - Despite what the Church would lead you to believe, are not real measures of faith. You know yourself what you believe. Or don't.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,298 ✭✭✭lightspeed


    Overheal wrote: »
    So why not run a campaign to change the minds of those voters and relay to them the importance of not identifying Catholic for the sake of Identifying Catholic.

    just one question WHY?
    we need to run such a campaign because it is of absolute importance because .........?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,213 ✭✭✭dave 27


    lightspeed wrote: »
    whats wrong with people having religious beliefs as long as they dont dictate and try to forces their beliefs on you?
    im not religious but it does not bother me if somebody has a religion.
    if atheists dictate their belief of not having a religion then what makes atheism any different than any other religion?
    there are athesist organisations and it seems to be one of the most active forums and its based on believing nothing? i have no idea why a religion based on nothing has an organisation and theres probably even books on it somehow?
    i find it hilarious that most people i know that believe in god never discuss or bother about religion and yet atheists that i have met seem to be often ravaging on and on about their religion. Why cant atheists just not believe in god an shut up about it? for me religion is like time travel. I dont know time travel does not exist but im yet to see it and i never think about it.

    well said, exactly what i think too


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,077 ✭✭✭Rebelheart


    Agricola wrote: »
    They dont prop up an organised paedophile ring though so they're ok in my book

    You're not exactly setting a high standard for them, are you. Atheists have the basic (and much more) self-righteousness to organise themselves into an institution like the CC. Then, we can make a more accurate comparison.

    There are more intelligent and less zealous belief systems than atheism, such as agnosticism.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,620 ✭✭✭✭dr.fuzzenstein


    There is an important difference in being spiritual or belonging to the catholic church.
    Not many of the "decent" folk who go to mass every day or every other could be described as very spiritual.
    They go to mass and then go right back to making as much for themselves as they can and stab everyone else in the back, no ammount of lip service in church will make you a good person.
    If you truly want to be spiritual, stay away from any form of organised religion.
    Just because you don't like the church doesn't mean you're automatically forced to be an atheist.
    Ever heard the term "Agnostic"?
    (and Rebelheart beat me to it)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,547 ✭✭✭Agricola


    Rebelheart wrote: »

    There are more intelligent and less zealous belief systems than atheism, such as agnosticism.

    I agree. Despite the very persuasive arguements of the new atheists which proclaim agnostisim to be ridiculous, I would still class myself as an Agnostic.

    But this isnt the right forum for this discussion! This is a thread for CC bashing!


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,345 ✭✭✭landsleaving


    I'm most definitely an atheist, but that in no way gives me a right to criticize anyone else for their belief. Attack the guilty parties, not the faith.

    I'm not, however, suggesting that the Catholic Church is anything but corrupt at the highest level with regard to its current actions, and anyone who either committed or covered up, or even attempted to justify what's gone on needs to be punished severely.


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