Fast food workers protest in Dublin

97i9y3941

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/0315/breaking53.html

Workers in the fast food industry held a protest in Dublin today over what they claim are attempts to cut wages in the sector.

The Restaurant Workers Action Group staged a protest outside Supermac’s restaurant on O’Connell Street.

Supermac’s is part of the Quick Service Food Alliance, an industry group mounting a legal challenge to the JLC (Joint Labour Committee) system which sets wages for the restaurant industry.

The workers’ group, which was established by the Migrant Rights Centre Ireland (MRCI) said that although Supermac’s saw its pre-tax profits quadruple last year, “it is joining other restaurants in challenging wage protections for its workers”.

“Restaurant owners and industry groups have been calling for the reduction of worker protections, including a €1 per hour cut in the national minimum wage; a weakening of the standards laid out in the JLC; and a challenge to the right of the JLC to determine working conditions,” it said in a statement.

Gul Gencoglu, a restaurant worker in Naas, Co Kildare, said that if her wages were cut, she would not be able to pay her rent.

“I would have no choice but to turn to social welfare for assistance. This is not what I want. I want to work. I want to have decent conditions. I don’t want anything more than that.”

Director of MRCI Siobháin O’Donoghue said the organisation had heard from hundreds of restaurant workers reporting unfair treatment and conditions of exploitation over the years.

The organisation called on Tánaiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment Mary Coughlan to take “immediate action to defend the wages of the lowest-paid workers from further attacks and cuts”.

In a statement, the Quick Service Food Alliance said it was taking a High Court constitutional challenge to the rights of the Catering Joint Labour Committee and the Labour Court to effectively set minimum rates of pay and employment conditions for workers in the catering industry.

“This case is not about lowering conditions of employment, but challenging the method by which those rates and conditions are set, which is unfair, arbitrary and unconstitutional in the present format,” it said.

"There are already numerous pieces of legislation, enacted by the Oireachtas, the rightful law-making institution in Ireland, setting out minimum conditions of pay and employment to protect employees".

It said businesses and workers had been hit hard due to the economic crisis, but it claimed the “arbitrary” JLC system was one of the factors that had led to job losses and the reduction in working hours.

“Our members’ employees come from many different countries, and they would like to emphasise their equal and fair treatment of all employees and commitment to this end".

It said its members were "committed to fair pay and conditions for all workers but are also committed to fairness and transparency in how minimum rates and conditions are set which ultimately keeps businesses viable and thereby protects jobs".

The QFSA represents businesses such as McDonalds, Burger King, Abrakebabra, Supermac’s and also independently run coffee shops, restaurants and sandwich bars the country.

MRCI is a national advocacy organisation representing migrant workers and their families.

I hope this isnt another race to the bottom again,its outrageous that this can be done freely without a care,the gov powers are useless to be honest,THEY DO NOT PROTECT THE MIN WAGE WORKERS,ONLY PROTECTION I SEEN IS THOSE WHO WORK IN GOV JOBS :mad:

johnnyskeleton

How long before they do the supervalu trick and pay their employees nothing?

(thanks to Blindjustice & Bmccaff for link):

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=64910258#post64910258

97i9y3941

i wasn't surprised with that to be honest,obviously someone very well off had a word in FF ear to suggest that hare brain scheme..

j1smithy

The scheme is a good idea when it provides meaningful experience. However when its abused by the likes of that Shop looking essentially for free staff thats where I have a problem.

silverharp

maybe if we would let rents and property prices race to the bottom and cut taxes it wouldnt be an issue.

Fratton Fred

When people working in fast food outlets earn €9 an hour, what chance is there of attracting investment in this country.

ei.sdraob

Silverharp2 wrote: »

maybe if we would let rents and property prices race to the bottom and cut taxes it wouldnt be an issue.

did you not get the memo?

its in our interest for NAMA to keep prices up, and put business out of business

:rolleyes:

murphaph

I see a downward pressure on all wages to be most positive for the future. Everyone wants the other guy to take the hit but for it to work, everyone (or most people anyway) must take it and get Ireland's wages back to realistic levels so we can compete with our neighbours once again.

The cost of living is already falling strongly and can fall further. Rents especially have room to fall.

danman

Fratton Fred wrote: »

When people working in fast food outlets earn €9 an hour, what chance is there of attracting investment in this country.

I've been working for 18 years after graduating.

My hourly rate works out at €13/hour. I'm quite happy with my salary. I wish it was more, but who wouldn't.

I can't believe that a school leaver, with no experience and living with mammy gets €9/hour.

johnnyskeleton

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

How long before they do the supervalu trick and pay their employees nothing?

(thanks to Blindjustice & Bmccaff for link):

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=64910258#post64910258

they took down the job! but i have a screen shot, work & jobs is full of examples of the system being abused:

Silverharp2 wrote: »

maybe if we would let rents and property prices race to the bottom and cut taxes it wouldnt be an issue.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWlz1IKWfw4

danman

danman wrote: »

I've been working for 18 years after graduating.

My hourly rate works out at €13/hour. I'm quite happy with my salary. I wish it was more, but who wouldn't.

I can't believe that a school leaver, with no experience and living with mammy gets €9/hour.

Are you for real?

Gul Gencoglu, a restaurant worker in Naas, Co Kildare, said that if her wages were cut, she would not be able to pay her rent.

“I would have no choice but to turn to social welfare for assistance. This is not what I want. I want to work. I want to have decent conditions. I don’t want anything more than that.”

And here is the problem. Reduce the minimum wage and it simply wont be worth peoples while to go and work for minimum wage as the dole and other benefits will far surpass going to work for 35-40 hours a week in a smelly fast food kitchen.

Blindjustice...that screenshot is absolutely hilarious. I'd love to know if they got any responses..

97i9y3941

danman wrote: »

I've been working for 18 years after graduating.

My hourly rate works out at €13/hour. I'm quite happy with my salary. I wish it was more, but who wouldn't.

I can't believe that a school leaver, with no experience and living with mammy gets €9/hour.

this is sort of snobbery that the irish have,other e.u citizens,most from eastern europe took up these jobs without hesitation and alot of them where highly educated people,but they didnt whinge they just worked and smiled.

Fratton Fred

Fred83 wrote: »

this is sort of snobbery that the irish have,other e.u citizens,most from eastern europe took up these jobs without hesitation and alot of them where highly educated people,but they didnt whinge they just worked and smiled.

Which is fine for a Polish postgrad who wants to earn some quick cash, but you can't have an economy based on Waiters. If every college leaver decided they were better off working in McDonalds the country would soon go down the tubesm

danman

My point is still valid.

It's a ridiculous situation where an employer has to pay a part time student, a 16/17 year old €9/hour.

10 years ago, this job would have been done for €3/4 per hour and students would have been quite happy to work for that.

The comment about not being worthwhile to work simply backs up many posts on this site, that social welfare is too high.

Scocial welfare should be related to what you have paid in the past.
If you've never paid into the fund, you get a minimum.

If you've worked for 20 years, you get a percentage of the contribution you've made.

If you decide to leave your job to go on social welfare, you go back to the start again.

It still remains a fact, that €9/hour minimum wage for a student living with their Mammies, is too much. Regardless of whether the kitchen is smelly or not.

danman

danman wrote: »

My point is still valid.

It's a ridiculous situation where an employer has to pay a part time student, a 16/17 year old €9/hour.

10 years ago, this job would have been done for €3/4 per hour and students would have been quite happy to work for that.

The comment about not being worthwhile to work simply backs up many posts on this site, that social welfare is too high.

Scocial welfare should be related to what you have paid in the past.
If you've never paid into the fund, you get a minimum.

If you've worked for 20 years, you get a percentage of the contribution you've made.

If you decide to leave your job to go on social welfare, you go back to the start again.

It still remains a fact, that €9/hour minimum wage for a student living with their Mammies, is too much. Regardless of whether the kitchen is smelly or not.

I worked in McDonalds for a bit as a teenager 10 years ago and I was paid about 4.50 punts an hour for it. Needless to say it bought you a similar amount to what 9 euros will now.

danman

danman wrote: »

My point is still valid.

It's a ridiculous situation where an employer has to pay a part time student, a 16/17 year old €9/hour.

10 years ago, this job would have been done for €3/4 per hour and students would have been quite happy to work for that.

The comment about not being worthwhile to work simply backs up many posts on this site, that social welfare is too high.

Scocial welfare should be related to what you have paid in the past.
If you've never paid into the fund, you get a minimum.

If you've worked for 20 years, you get a percentage of the contribution you've made.

If you decide to leave your job to go on social welfare, you go back to the start again.

It still remains a fact, that €9/hour minimum wage for a student living with their Mammies, is too much. Regardless of whether the kitchen is smelly or not.

yeah but thats not the only problem there are high electricity costs, insurance costs and rents to tackle too. How about we hammer the high wages in the ESB, the legal sector and let the free market deal with the property market. Reducing the minimum wage, which I am in favour of, without doing the above would do little to turn the recession around.

donkey balls

this has been going on for some time within the transport industry since the borders were opened to former eastern block countries.
i know of about 4/5 companies that pay there drivers 70e a day and have to work upto 15hrs a day for it(70/15= 4.66e per hr).
i have also seen jobs posted on FAS that requires people to have 3/5 experience etc how is that work placement to gain experience?,i my self was offered a full time job last year driving an artic truck for the minimun wage.i have taken a 9% paycut with the company im with at present and looks like i will be taken another one soon and i remember not so long ago that i was paying 48 pence in the punt tax &6% prsi.

Dob74

Fratton Fred wrote: »

When people working in fast food outlets earn €9 an hour, what chance is there of attracting investment in this country.

Dawn right those greedy fast food workers are ruining this country. There only in it for the money.
To think MacDonalds and Supermacs are able to increase profits in a recession and these selfish workers demand to be paid a massive 9 euro an hour.

Now those bankers are well worth there million euro salaries. They have cost the taxpayer 10 billion so far, with more to come.

Its time to rise as one and stick the boot in to those greedy fast food workers.

johnnyskeleton

Deleted User wrote: »

they took down the job! but i have a screen shot, work & jobs is full of examples of the system being abused:

Thanks for taking a screenshot, but stop showing that fuppin clip. This is a family website ffs.

Deleted User wrote: »

the legal sector

Not the legal sector!! You just wait until you're falsely accused of a criminal charge, and then we'll see if you're overcharged for a quaity service.

PeakOutput

minimum wage should cut by at least 1 euro and social welfare should be slashed in line with this so that working for minimum wage is at least double social welfare

the_syco

Fratton Fred wrote: »

When people working in fast food outlets earn €9 an hour, what chance is there of attracting investment in this country.

When it makes more sense to be on the dole than to work full time job for minimum wage, there is no chance.

MaceFace

If anyone does not like the pay and conditions they have, they should leave the company.
Simple as.

The_Thing

A list of all those companies involved in taking this action should be published so that people can boycott them.

ei.sdraob

The_Thing wrote: »

A list of all those companies involved in taking this action should be published so that people can boycott them.

yes that wont hurt the employees in any manner

The_Thing

yes that wont hurt the employees in any manner

I would prefer to see those companies go out of business entirely rather than let some profiteering employer get away with paying slave wages. If they are allowed to cut those peoples wages once, they will want to do it again and again, they will never be happy.

ei.sdraob

The_Thing wrote: »

I would prefer to see those companies go out of business entirely rather than let some profiteering employer get away with paying slave wages. If they are allowed to cut those peoples wages once, they will want to do it again and again, they will never be happy.

ah yes the race to the bottom fallacy

Leper

I detest all these people who think others should work for other than a decent wage. These "experts" have the country in the state it is in.

They hide behind their suits, think the unemployed should clean up the rivers, paint the homes of old people and walk around barefoot and be glad of their existence.

But, suddenly some of them become unemployed (Why didn't daddy prevent this situation?). They go on Joe Duffy bitchin' that they no longer can afford to run two BMWs and might have to move out of Foxrock.

And by the way, they no longer think that the unemployed should clean out the rivers etc

flutered

danman wrote: »

My point is still valid

It still remains a fact, that €9/hour minimum wage for a student living with their Mammies, is too much. Regardless of whether the kitchen is smelly or not.

but a some of the the time it is a mammy with a kid that needs that job

97i9y3941

tbh,these workers take alot of drunken abuse as well on the weekend..

rightwingdub

PeakOutput wrote: »

minimum wage should cut by at least 1 euro and social welfare should be slashed in line with this so that working for minimum wage is at least double social welfare

Well at least the government saw sense in social welfare in the recent budget for people under 24, the government should go further and cut the dole to €150 per week over the next three budgets.

Budget 2011 €180
Budget 2012 €165
Budget 2013 €150

For people aged 22,23 and 24 the dole should be cut to €125 per week, welfare is far too generous in this country. On the minimum wage it should be cut to €6.50 per hour, cutting the minimum wage would mean that badly needed jobs would be created, by the way on the fast food restaurants has anyone seen any Irish staff working in either McDonalds, Supermacs, Eddie Rockets or Burgerking, I haven't seen any Irish staff, shows that a lot of Irish people are still very finicky about doing certain jobs.

Paulzx

danman wrote: »

My point is still valid.

It's a ridiculous situation where an employer has to pay a part time student, a 16/17 year old €9/hour.

10 years ago, this job would have been done for €3/4 per hour and students would have been quite happy to work for that.

The comment about not being worthwhile to work simply backs up many posts on this site, that social welfare is too high.

Scocial welfare should be related to what you have paid in the past.
If you've never paid into the fund, you get a minimum.

If you've worked for 20 years, you get a percentage of the contribution you've made.

If you decide to leave your job to go on social welfare, you go back to the start again.

It still remains a fact, that €9/hour minimum wage for a student living with their Mammies, is too much. Regardless of whether the kitchen is smelly or not.

According to this

Exceptions to those entitled to receive the national minimum wage

There are some exceptions to those entitled to receive the national minimum wage. The legislation does not apply to a person employed by a close relative (for example, a spouse or parent) nor does it apply to those in statutory apprenticeships. Also some employees such as young people under 18 and trainees are only guaranteed a reduced or sub-minimum rate of the national minimum wage.

Sub-minimum rates from 1 July 2007

The National Minimum Wage Act provides the following sub-minimum rates:

* An employee who is under 18 is entitled to €6.06 per hour (this is 70% of the minimum wage)
* An employee who is in the first year of employment since the age of 18 is entitled to €6.92 per hour (80% of minimum wage)
* An employee who is in the second year of employment since the date of first employment over the age of 18 is entitled to €7.79 per hour (90% of the minimum wage)

This phasing in of the National Minimum Wage also applies to employees who are over 18 and enter employment for the first time.

which is on the Citizens Information website there is no requirement to pay 16/17 olds the minimum wage.

Hope that makes you feel better.

Many small business like newsagents and corner shops would employ young people. If this is the case they are not in fact obliged to pay them 9euro an hour

rightwingdub

Paulzx wrote: »

According to this




which is on the Citizens Information website there is no requirement to pay 16/17 olds the minimum wage.

Hope that makes you feel better.

Many small business like newsagents and corner shops would employ young people. If this is the case they are not in fact obliged to pay them 9euro an hour

How many employers paid Irish staff inder 18 less than the minimum wage during the Celtic Tiger, i doubt very few did. I worked in Dunnes Stores part time during college and 16 and 17 year kids were getting the same as people over 18. If the minimum wage is to be cut to €6.50 per hour than someone under 18 should be paid €6 per hour, that sounds sufficient to me.

the_syco

rightwingdub wrote: »

has anyone seen any Irish staff working in either McDonalds, Supermacs, Eddie Rockets or Burgerking, I haven't seen any Irish staff, shows that a lot of Irish people are still very finicky about doing certain jobs.

Yes. I have seen them working in every one of them.

rightwingdub

the_syco wrote: »

Yes. I have seen them working in every one of them.

In Dublin or outside Dublin, n Dublin I haven't seen any Irish staff working in any of the above mentioned fast food outlets. Thats been the case since at least 2000 in Dublin.

Paulzx

rightwingdub wrote: »

How many employers paid Irish staff inder 18 less than the minimum wage during the Celtic Tiger, i doubt very few did. I worked in Dunnes Stores part time during college and 16 and 17 year kids were getting the same as people over 18. If the minimum wage is to be cut to €6.50 per hour than someone under 18 should be paid €6 per hour, that sounds sufficient to me.

That is irrellevant. The poster maintained that employers were obliged to pay 16/17 year olds 9 euro an hour. This is not the case.

Business representatives constantly quote the higher figure when demanding a reduction in the minimun wage. They fail to highlight that younger people working in a lot of these small businesses are only entitled to approx 60% of this figure. Even when they become 18 they are not entitled to the full minimum wage.

Paulzx

rightwingdub wrote: »

In Dublin or outside Dublin, n Dublin I haven't seen any Irish staff working in any of the above mentioned fast food outlets. Thats been the case since at least 2000 in Dublin.

In 10 years you haven't seen any Irish person working in any of those fast food outlets?

Man, you must be sick of all them burgers:D

rightwingdub

Paulzx wrote: »

That is irrellevant. The poster maintained that employers were obliged to pay 16/17 year olds 9 euro an hour. This is not the case.

Business representatives constantly quote the higher figure when demanding a reduction in the minimun wage. They fail to highlight that younger people working in a lot of these small businesses are only entitled to approx 60% of this figure. Even when they become 18 they are not entitled to the full minimum wage.

Companies like Dunnes and Tescos stopped employing minors a few years ago. I don't know of any companies that didn't pay 18 year old Irish people less than the minimum wage for all other adults, my point is that the min wage is far too high in this country and needs to be cut, look at the restaurant industry for instance.

rightwingdub

Paulzx wrote: »

In 10 years you haven't seen any Irish person working in any of those fast food outlets?

Man, you must be sick of all them burgers:D

Only go into these places very rarely:)

Paulzx

rightwingdub wrote: »

Companies like Dunnes and Tescos stopped employing minors a few years ago. .

Large companies like Dunnes or Tescos were not mentioned at any stage of the discussion.

The point that is being refuted is that there was an obligation to pay 16/17/18 year olds the full minimum wage. This is quite clearly not the case.

Any business that paid above them levels before is not obliged now to do so. If they were all paying above this wage before (which i don't believe ) they can in fact reduce their wage bill without a reduction in the legal minimum wage.

My original point still stands

rightwingdub

Paulzx wrote: »

Large companies like Dunnes or Tescos were not mentioned at any stage of the discussion.

The point that is being refuted is that there was an obligation to pay 16/17/18 year olds the full minimum wage. This is quite clearly not the case.

Any business that paid above them levels before is not obliged now to do so. If they were all paying above this wage before (which i don't believe ) they can in fact reduce their wage bill without a reduction in the legal minimum wage.

My original point still stands

Companies prefer to employ people with work experience instead of people without work experience, its a good idea to cut the minimum wage for all adults.

97i9y3941

Paulzx wrote: »

The point that is being refuted is that there was an obligation to pay 16/17/18 year olds the full minimum wage. This is quite clearly not the case.

+1 to that,i know many people in their 20s who where chosen over for young people in jobs due to ability to pay below min wage.

rasper

rightwingdub wrote: »

In Dublin or outside Dublin, n Dublin I haven't seen any Irish staff working in any of the above mentioned fast food outlets. Thats been the case since at least 2000 in Dublin.

always assumed it was the employers that prefrred to take on non national staff as they can be pushed harder than Irish staff who always had other options, LIDL and Aldi also spring to mind

rightwingdub

rasper wrote: »

always assumed it was the employers that prefrred to take on non national staff as they can be pushed harder than Irish staff who always had other options, LIDL and Aldi also spring to mind

I was in Lidl in Dundrum the other day and I saw 2 irish staff at the checkouts, most of the staff in Lidl and Aldi are foreigners I'd agree with you on that, are Irish people still very finicky about working in certain jobs.

ei.sdraob

as someone who had the experience of working in a min wage job in catering (yep been there scrubbed that, and the experience made me study and work harder)

what % of these workers are Irish and qualify for a dole?

despite the recession it seems some people here still turn up their nose at these jobs and restaurants having to employ non natives

just wondering

rightwingdub

ei.sdraob wrote: »

as someone who had the experience of working in a min wage job in catering (yep been there scrubbed that, and the experience made me study and work harder)

what % of these workers are Irish and qualify for a dole?

despite the recession it seems some people here still turn up their nose at these jobs and restaurants having to employ non natives

just wondering

One easy solution cut the dole even further and anyone who turns down 2 job offers should have their welfare benefits frozen, too much snobbery of you ask me about certain jobs.

97i9y3941

i don't think its always the case of having to employ migrants,sometimes i think its a case they more flexible,have the "can do" attitude bull**** you see on job adverts and less likely to complain unlike the irish

rightwingdub

Fred83 wrote: »

i don't think its always the case of having to employ migrants,sometimes i think its a case they more flexible,have the "can do" attitude bull**** you see on job adverts and less likely to complain unlike the irish

Well its time a lot of Irish people rediscovered the meaning of hard work.

97i9y3941

i think a lot have,you only have to look at news everyday at 500 people turning up for a job,good few them applying would be irish..

rightwingdub

Fred83 wrote: »

i think a lot have,you only have to look at news everyday at 500 people turning up for a job,good few them applying would be irish..

I heard about over 500 people applying for 2 jobs in a londis retail store in Dublin, can I ask why did the government never get the celtic tiger welfare junkies back to work when there was full employment?

TheInquisitor

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

Are you for real?



And here is the problem. Reduce the minimum wage and it simply wont be worth peoples while to go and work for minimum wage as the dole and other benefits will far surpass going to work for 35-40 hours a week in a smelly fast food kitchen.

This is why there needs to be not only a drop of at least E1 in the minimum wage but also a huge drop in the social welfare benefit. In the UK its £60 which is E67 not almost 200 and the minimum wage is £5.60 and thats only if your over 22. 22 or under and you get £4.5!!

Absolutly crazy social welfare and minimum wages in this country