The myth that Alfa build quality is somehow improving...

samsemtex

Went to view an Alfa 156 today. This one

I'd my heart set on a 156. I know full well they arent the best made cars in the world but I would be willing to put up with that if it had a premium feel to it. The paint quality is incredibly bad, flaking, cracked and faded. The TI badge is completely faded, as was the Alfa badge on the front. The leather was wearing really badly, Air con controls feel really cheap and tacky, the electric window control console was loose and felt like it could be pulled off. Steering wheel radio controls were faded (as they have been on every single 156 i have driven). Usual alfa problem of the airbag light being on.

The car clearly wasnt looked after well but that is no excuse for the paint work to be that bad after 5 years. Nor for the badges to be that worn. People can say "oh the 159 is better", but its not really. Maybe mechanically it is a bit better but the quality of the materials they use isnt. When I was looking at 156s in Grandons there were 159s with faded badges and paint work after just two years. Alfa are still rated amongst the worst manufacturers for reliability for a reason. I dont know why people defend them on here so much. The quality is still shocking.

Sitting back into my s40 was like sitting into a tank it was so well put together in comparison. I never appreciated my car so much. And I have sat in and driven better examples than the one i drove today but the controls just feel so shoddy in them. Its like they have used the cheapest possible materials for everything.

Really really disappointed.

By the way if anyone thinks that one in the ad looks nice don be fooled. It's a wreck. The side skirts on the front of both sides have been screwed on! Literally 4 screws going through the skirt into the car. Not a single stamp on the service history either and the brakes are completely shot. I barely was able to stop coming up to a set of traffic lights.

I may still buy one at a later date...

JHMEG

159 unfortunately isn't doing too well in the polls.

A friend bought one and is generally delighted with it despite the fact that it burst its diesel filter and the washer jet nozzles blew off in the frosty weather when he tried to squirt the windscreen.

mickdw

The 156 always felt a bit poor in that regard to me but I had a 166 which was very well finished in comparison. Just a few very minor niggles with 166 interior but generally excellent fit & finish.

samsemtex

But isnt the 166 supposed to be a disaster mechanically then? I dunno, I just cant see how people can seriously defend them in relation to Mercs, BMWs and Lexus. As poor as Mercs were there for a few years they were never anything like the Alfa, same goes for Audi. They are in a whole other league. Stuff may go wrong but they at least feel/look well made even if they werent. The alfa isnt well made and it doesnt look it either.

I know Alfas are in a slightly different category and they are cheaper but the quality is abysmal not even up to Opel Vectra standards IMO. There are plenty of cars cheaper than an Alfa with infinitely superior materials used.

Nonoperational

I disagree about the interior. Sit into a new 159 (or a one that has been well looked after) and it is pretty good. I was in a 3 series coupe the other day and it was absolutely horrible. I have a 156 and I find it very hard sitting into the generic golfs etc after getting out of the alfa. I looked after mine and it is all tight and working inside.

you have to feel sorry for the folks who believed it, the grandons workshop was full of them in for warranty work shortly after they were launched, people a few yards away believing the salesman horse****.

KerranJast

Anyone I know with a GT, 159 or Brera loves them and hasn't had any trouble. Since they "Germanised" the build quality and more importantly the electrics have improved hugely. Tbh I'd rather be hit by a Volvo than have to drive one.

samsemtex

KerranJast wrote: »

Since they "Germanised" the build quality

But they haven't...I've never seen a bmw with the blue on its badge faded after 2 years.

KerranJast

samsemtex wrote: »

But they haven't...I've never seen a bmw with the blue on its badge faded after 2 years.

I've seen BMW badges with chips coming off. TBH that's down more to the ****e maintenance of the owner than the build quality of the car. If you don't take car of a car you'll have trouble no matter how reliable it's rep is.

Anyway no offense to 156 drivers but there's no way I'd buy one. Too much tlc needed. Why didn't you look at a 159 if you were interested in an Alfa saloon?

samsemtex

KerranJast wrote: »

I've seen BMW badges with chips coming off. TBH that's down more to the ****e maintenance of the owner than the build quality of the car. If you don't take car of a car you'll have trouble no matter how reliable it's rep is.

Anyway no offense to 156 drivers but there's no way I'd buy one. Too much tlc needed. Why didn't you look at a 159 if you were interested in an Alfa saloon?

How is a badge fading down to poor maintenance? I dont care what way you look after your car, a badge should not be fading on a two year old car. Nor should the paint be fading even if its never seen a bit of wax. Even on Alfa owner forums they dont defend the build quality anymore.

Im not looking at a 159 cause i cant afford a 159...

fuelinjection

You know its hard to argue with them improving their build quality.
Going from really crap to fairly crap is an improvement so I see where they are going with this ...

KerranJast

fuelinjection wrote: »

You know its hard to argue with them improving their build quality.
Going from really crap to fairly crap is an improvement so I see where they are going with this ...

I'm only going from personal experience and surveys I've seen of customer satisfaction. The 159, GT and Brera all have pretty good reliability stats. The 156 doesn't hence there reason it's cheap. There's a damn good reason 159s are sought after.

bigbadbear

samsemtex wrote: »

Went to view an Alfa 156 today........


Sitting back into my s40 was like sitting into a tank it was so well put together in comparison. I never appreciated my car so much.

According to this and others Volvos are one of the worst cars for reliability?

Alfa aren't even on the list but looking at the names that are i can see why

fuelinjection

KerranJast wrote: »

I'm only going from personal experience and surveys I've seen of customer satisfaction. The 159, GT and Brera all have pretty good reliability stats. The 156 doesn't hence there reason it's cheap. There's a damn good reason 159s are sought after.

I never owned an Alfa myself to be honest.
But the sales lads I used to work with all got them .. and rattling interiors and random electrical failures. One lad had to get the engine replaced at 20,000 miles ... ok he drove like a spanner so no surprise the car died.

fonecrusher1

This is what puts me off the Alfa 156. Im in a phase of really wanting to get one because i really like the look of them & the interiors look very cool compared to similar cars.
Ive been researching them a bit & for every good thing i seem to find a bad thing. I can service a car & once or twice done some basic repairs but if anything serious was to go wrong i'd be up sh!t creek so unfortunately i'l have to pass on an older alfa. I wouldn't have the technical knowledge.
I know the newer ones are meant to be better but they're way out of my price range.
Its a shame because they're head & shoulders ahead of everyone else in the looks department.

I couldn't be bothered with the worry. I don't have the funds to maintain a potentially troublesome motor.
If was in better circumstances i would get one in a heartbeat.

Mc Love

One of my mates has a black 147, lovely car and is kept well. The leather interior is nice too

fonecrusher1

Mc Love wrote: »

One of my mates has a black 147, lovely car and is kept well. The leather interior is nice too

One of the best looking modern hatchbacks ever. IMO.

But do they have the same problems associated with the 156? Or are they a different car altogether?

fonecrusher1

fonecrusher1 wrote: »

One of the best looking modern hatchbacks ever. IMO.

But do they have the same problems associated with the 156? Or are they a different car altogether?

Much the same issues as with the 156, but 156s were popular as a reps car so many have done lots of miles in their first few years on the road, 147s are almost completely private buys.

bigbadbear wrote: »

According to this and others Volvos are one of the worst cars for reliability?

Alfa aren't even on the list but looking at the names that are i can see why

That must be old data as according to it there is a 38.54% chance of a Renault breaking down in a year, which put Renault at the 2nd most unreliable brand. According to the folks in the know on boards.ie post 2005 Renaults have no reliability probs. Also 70% of the top ten are Japs and no Jap manufacturer in the bottom 10, sure that makes no sense (chuckle chuckle).

fonecrusher1

RoverJames wrote: »

Much the same issues as with the 156, but 156s were popular as a reps car so many have done lots of miles in their first few years on the road, 147s are almost completely private.

Ive also noticed the diesel 1.9 Jtd 156's are quite rare on the second hand market. And expensive.

samsemtex

bigbadbear wrote: »

According to this and others Volvos are one of the worst cars for reliability?

Alfa aren't even on the list but looking at the names that are i can see why

Well I'm not sure about the newer ones but according to Autoexpress driver power the original s40 which is what i have was the most reliable non japanese car between 96-04 so there definitely arent many problems with that. The interior build quality is excellent in it and the materials are sturdy and good quality. Even the much maligned 1.8gdi engine has been perfect in my one.

Plus one off car surveys are often nonsense due to the small sample surveyed. If Volvo were consistently finishing in the bottom 10% i'd believe that but they generally finish above average in these things while FIAT/Alfa are always at the bottom.

And as for the 2009 JD power Alfa were once again down there with a 29th from 35 finish so I think that again shows that the new Alfas are indeed no better relative to other cars. I don't put a whole lot of value on these things usually but when you are as consistenly abysmal, like Alfa and Land Rover, there has to be something to it.

Jip

I don't understand the title of this thread.

Most people would assume you're talking about a modern model, not a 5 year old car in which everyone are already aware of its shortcomings and issues.

ktulu123

fonecrusher1 wrote: »

One of the best looking modern hatchbacks ever. IMO.

But do they have the same problems associated with the 156? Or are they a different car altogether?

I've had a 07 147 Collezione for 2 years now and I haven't had any problems with it. That being said im fairly rediculious when it comes to keeping it clean and running it right. Before that I had an 02 147 which was a dog, had alot of trouble with it.

I think it is down to the way they are treated, the 156 while a georgeous car has always had its issues. OP you should'nt give up on alfas, there are some decent 156's out there(im sure:p)

EPM

Jip wrote: »

I don't understand the title of this thread.

Most people would assume you're talking about a modern model, not a 5 year old car in which everyone are already aware of its shortcomings and issues.

+1

You're basing some of this on a wrecked 5 year old car whose design is 13 years old. Hardly modern in fairness.

samsemtex

Jip wrote: »

I don't understand the title of this thread.

Most people would assume you're talking about a modern model, not a 5 year old car in which everyone are already aware of its shortcomings and issues.

If Alfa cannot get an end of the run 156 correct after being on the market for 8 years there is very little chance the new cars are right. Anyway the reason I say this is because when I have been looking at 156s I've had a look at many 159s and loads of them all have the exact same issues with shoddy paint, faded badges and cheap materials.

If they cant improve minor things like this I have zero confidence that their reliability has been greatly improved overall. And as for people saying I shouldnt expect a 2005 156 to have decent materials? Why not? Mercedes released the C-class in 2000 and that had some pretty big issues. By the time it finished its run it had been improved hugely and the materials used were of a far higher quality. That was then reflected in the car that replaced it.

*Tripper*

Ha.....alfa/volvo.....alfa/volvo.....alfa/volvo. As a poster above said I'd rather get hit by a Volvo S40 then drive one. OP I don't really think you know what you are talking about. You whining about a faded badge and a bit of bandy bodywork. What about what it's like to drive? Maybe you shouldn't even consider buying an Alfa if that sort of stuff annoys you.


Volvo...hahaha.

EPM

*Tripper* wrote: »

Ha.....alfa/volvo.....alfa/volvo.....alfa/volvo. As a poster above said I'd rather get hit by a Volvo S40 then drive one. OP I don't really think you know what you are talking about. You whining about a faded badge and a bit of bandy bodywork. What about what it's like to drive? Maybe you shouldn't even consider buying an Alfa if that sort of stuff annoys you.


Volvo...hahaha.

Under pressure with the junior cert coming up?

:rolleyes:

samsemtex

*Tripper* wrote: »

Ha.....alfa/volvo.....alfa/volvo.....alfa/volvo. As a poster above said I'd rather get hit by a Volvo S40 then drive one. OP I don't really think you know what you are talking about. You whining about a faded badge and a bit of bandy bodywork. What about what it's like to drive? Maybe you shouldn't even consider buying an Alfa if that sort of stuff annoys you.


Volvo...hahaha.

And sorry...what was your first car? I very much doubt it had leather, climate control, cruise control, electrics all around and decent power output. Or are you even old enough to drive? Asshole. (Infract me if you wants mods but the guy is clearly an arse)

As for what it was like to drive. It was fine, the ride was good even with the low profile tyres and the handling is sharp. It was also unbelievably slow when i put the foot down and wouldn't hold a candle to my Vovlo accelerating. Believe me I know a lot more than you. Why am I even responding to this pleb?

testicle

samsemtex wrote: »

But they haven't...I've never seen a bmw with the blue on its badge faded after 2 years.

A 156 is before the Germanisation....

CarMuppet

samsemtex wrote: »

Went to view an Alfa 156 today. This one


Really really disappointed.


I may still buy one at a later date...

Sounds like this car suffered from very poor maintenance... Out of interest how my 156's have you test driven?

samsemtex

CarMuppet wrote: »

Sounds like this car suffered from very poor maintenance... Out of interest how my 156's have you test driven?

3 or 4, the controls do seem very, very cheap in all of them. Kinda have that purchased in a poundshop feel. And the paint was poor in 2 of them. This was admittedly a relatively poorly treated one but the quality of the controls is very poor in all of the ones I have driven. they just feel loose and cheap. I drove one they have in Grandons and that was a much better kept one and it showed. But again there is no premium feel whatsoever in the materials used. Its such a pity because the dash is so nice in them and they are lovely to drive.

cantdecide

That car was in every mechanised carwash in the country I'd say. I've heard all of Alfa's "ism"s over the years and poor paint/ body work is a new one.

to the i'd rather be hit volvo than drive one folks, are t5s included in that ?

CarMuppet

samsemtex wrote: »

3 or 4, the controls do seem very, very cheap in all of them. Kinda have that purchased in a poundshop feel. And the paint was poor in 2 of them. This was admittedly a relatively poorly treated one but the quality of the controls is very poor in all of the ones I have driven. they just feel loose and cheap. I drove one they have in Grandons and that was a much better kept one and it showed. But again there is no premium feel whatsoever in the materials used. Its such a pity because the dash is so nice in them and they are lovely to drive.

I think you just summed it up there! the older 156's are a great car to drive but the plastics are a bit...... well let's say it feels like the acountants got hold of the BOM just before the production run..

Have you driven the 2.0 TS? much better feel, IMO, than the 1.6 or 1.8...

Best of luck with your car-hunting...

Cheers,
CarMuppet



PS and on an unrelated note, I have a 2000 Red 156 2.0 TS for sale...

samsemtex

CarMuppet wrote: »

I think you just summed it up there! the older 156's are a great car to drive but the plastics are a bit...... well let's say it feels like the acountants got hold of the BOM just before the production run..

Have you driven the 2.0 TS? much better feel, IMO, than the 1.6 or 1.8...

Best of luck with your car-hunting...

Cheers,
CarMuppet



PS and on an unrelated note, I have a 2000 Red 156 2.0 TS for sale...

Thanks for the reply. Yeah I agree with you there. They are a fantastic car to drive and I still really want one. finding a post 2000 2.0 JTS is next to an impossibility though. Nearly all of them are 1.6 litre and its just so dead to drive.

I thought I had found a decent 1.8 litre in wicklow but that turned out to be on finance. Maybe its just because I was so disappointed by that one. I fully expected to lay down a deposit yesterday after being told it was mint and had a FSH.

Leonard Hofstadter

*Tripper* wrote: »

Ha.....alfa/volvo.....alfa/volvo.....alfa/volvo. As a poster above said I'd rather get hit by a Volvo S40 then drive one. OP I don't really think you know what you are talking about. You whining about a faded badge and a bit of bandy bodywork. What about what it's like to drive? Maybe you shouldn't even consider buying an Alfa if that sort of stuff annoys you.


Volvo...hahaha.

With a statement like that it is safe to assume you know nothing about cars.

Why is it that those who have no experience of Volvo's are those who complain about them the most?

bladespin

Have a 05 156 just over a year now It's a JTDM so reliability is good unlike the other.

It did have a faded badge when I got it (since replaced), mainly down IMO to the fact that they laquer their abdges and then put them somewhere stone chips can have their evil ways with them.

TBH I'm still very much in love with it, the handling and engine are amazing, it's what I always thought it would be.

I look after it mostly myself, they're simple to work on and service (thank God).

Only problems I've had are:
Wishbone bushes need replacing (knew they were consumable when I got it) so that'll be €40.
It does like tyres (the bushes add to this) so does a bit of enthusiastic driving
Air con used to try to cook us until I reset (dealer had it set wrong).

I like the Volvo S series too sorry guys lol.

Theta

*Tripper* wrote: »

Ha.....alfa/volvo.....alfa/volvo.....alfa/volvo. As a poster above said I'd rather get hit by a Volvo S40 then drive one. OP I don't really think you know what you are talking about. You whining about a faded badge and a bit of bandy bodywork. What about what it's like to drive? Maybe you shouldn't even consider buying an Alfa if that sort of stuff annoys you.


Volvo...hahaha.

Unless your main driving pursuit is racing with you buddies around industrial estates why wouldnt you want a car you felt comfortable sitting in and didnt get annoyed at having to look at from your front room window.

Volvo up until recently did a 300bhp S60 which wouldnt be to shabby to race your mates in.

VolvoMan

KerranJast wrote: »

Tbh I'd rather be hit by a Volvo than have to drive one.

As mentioned previously, I bet you are one of those people who has zero experience of the Volvo brand and is narrow minded enough to believe that they're all boxy estate cars.

bigbadbear wrote: »

According to this and others Volvos are one of the worst cars for reliability?

Alfa aren't even on the list but looking at the names that are i can see why

Hmmmm... Don't think I've seen you on the Motors forum before. It's no wonder.:rolleyes:

*Tripper* wrote: »

Ha.....alfa/volvo.....alfa/volvo.....alfa/volvo. As a poster above said I'd rather get hit by a Volvo S40 then drive one. OP I don't really think you know what you are talking about. You whining about a faded badge and a bit of bandy bodywork. What about what it's like to drive? Maybe you shouldn't even consider buying an Alfa if that sort of stuff annoys you.


Volvo...hahaha.

Without googling, could you please tell me what a T5, R, or even a C70 is? Nope, didn't think so...

People complain about BMW and Audi drivers being the biggest tossers on the road, but I'm sorry to say that in my recent experiences I have found many Alfa drivers to be the biggest arses you could meet and irrational towards anyone critical of their brand. Accept it lads, your cars are nice to look it, but they are not at the bottom of the pile in terms of quality for nothing.

CarMuppet

samsemtex wrote: »

Thanks for the reply. Yeah I agree with you there. They are a fantastic car to drive and I still really want one. finding a post 2000 2.0 JTS is next to an impossibility though. Nearly all of them are 1.6 litre and its just so dead to drive.

I thought I had found a decent 1.8 litre in wicklow but that turned out to be on finance. Maybe its just because I was so disappointed by that one. I fully expected to lay down a deposit yesterday after being told it was mint and had a FSH.

Well if you're certain about a 156 hold on and drive lots of them to get the 'right one'.. the suspension/steering is genuinely better on the 2.0 TS... there are 100's of them out there...keep looking.... if you purchase you won't reget it & talk on www.alfaowner.com..

You'll eat rear drop links.. but they're cheap and easy to fix ... best of luck,

Cheers,
CarMuppet

fonecrusher1

Test drove a volvo v40 years ago. Possibly the most comfortable car i have ever driven & felt like it would last forever.
Thought it was quick enough as well. Lovely car.

Expensive though.

KerranJast

VolvoMan wrote: »

As mentioned previously, I bet you are one of those people who has zero experience of the Volvo brand and is narrow minded enough to believe that they're all boxy estate cars.

Nope. Volvos are good for what they are. A reliable alternative to the German marques and they've one or two good sportier models but there's just something about them that doesn't quite sit right. That's just my opinion tbh.

Nonoperational

Ah come on volvomsn give us a break!

Theta

VolvoMan wrote: »

Accept it lads, your cars are nice to look it, but they are not at the bottom of the pile in terms of quality for nothing.

Now you see I see alfa threads come and go here and I always here people say they are lovely looking cars or the best looking cars but im going to say it....

I think Alfa make the most disgusting looking cars out there

There I said it. Riddle me all you want about it!

Tea 1000

Theta wrote: »

Now you see I see alfa threads come and go here and I always here people say they are lovely looking cars or the best looking cars but im going to say it....

I think Alfa make the most disgusting looking cars out there

There I said it. Riddle me all you want about it!

You like Golfs, don't you?

Nonoperational

Theta wrote: »

Now you see I see alfa threads come and go here and I always here people say they are lovely looking cars or the best looking cars but im going to say it....

I think Alfa make the most disgusting looking cars out there

There I said it. Riddle me all you want about it!

Ah this thread is going to **** completely now. You think the 159 TI is the ugliest car out there?

Theta

Tea 1000 wrote: »

You like Golfs, don't you?

Nope not a huge fan of golfs. I like Saloons never been a fan of hatchs.

I dunno I just really really dislike Alfa Styling.

EPM

Theta wrote: »

I dunno I just really really dislike Alfa Styling.

Uh-oh

Nice knowing ya:p

fonecrusher1

Theta wrote: »

Now you see I see alfa threads come and go here and I always here people say they are lovely looking cars or the best looking cars but im going to say it....

I think Alfa make the most disgusting looking cars out there

There I said it. Riddle me all you want about it!

Volvo come out with the odd monstrosity themselves.:D:D

Anan1

samsemtex wrote: »

Or are you even old enough to drive? Asshole.

Banned for a week for personal abuse.

itarumaa

fonecrusher1 wrote: »

Volvo come out with the odd monstrosity themselves.:D:D




Maybe Theta is right after all

Tea 1000

8C anyone?