Help me choose a car engine for a boat!

corglass

Hi,

I'm currently working on a 19ft speedboat and have come to the point were I need an engine for it.

I'm in the process of converting the boat to take an inboard, and was debating between engines like
A Lexus ls400 engine?
The old model diesel landcrusiers?

I ideally want planty of grunt, with reasonable fuel economy. (if it's possible?)


Anyone got any suggestions? Oh and if anyone has any links to real engines/complete cars with suitable engines it'd be great. thanks

Alanstrainor

I'll leave it up to you whether you want me to move this or not. But there's a sailing and boating forum, perhaps it would be better off there?

mickdw

I would go with an old diesel with as little amount of electronics as possible if something like that will do powerwise for ease of installation & less likelyhood of tricky electronic problems down the line

MrPudding

Volvo Penta?

MrP

corglass

Re Alan: I think I'll leve this in Motors, because I'm interested in the enginer performance/characteristics rather then the 'how to' But thanks anyway.

Re Mick DW, I'm not sure if an old diesel would have enough grunt for water skiing unless you have a particular engine in mind? That said I do like the idea of a powerful diesel.


Re MrP, I thikn those Volo Penta are very expensive? I think the car route might be more fun.

Saab Ed

You have to be carefull with Oil circulation. You might have to change the set up to a dry sump to stop oil starvation when the boat is moving up and down in the sea. Big old Detroit Diesel turbo V6 from an eighties Bombardier bus would be perfect. Lots of grunt , set up for marine use already as far as I know and there should be a good few of them left around the country.

http://boatdiesel.com/Engines/Detroit-Diesel/Detroit-Diesel.cfm

Ferris

corglass wrote: »

Hi,

I'm currently working on a 19ft speedboat and have come to the point were I need an engine for it.

I'm in the process of converting the boat to take an inboard, and was debating between engines like
A Lexus ls400 engine?
The old model diesel landcrusiers?

I ideally want planty of grunt, with reasonable fuel economy. (if it's possible?)


Anyone got any suggestions? Oh and if anyone has any links to real engines/complete cars with suitable engines it'd be great. thanks

For economy you'd need a diesel. There are kits to marinise most perkins diesels and one for the 1.9 peugeot diesel. Diesels are heavy for that size of and type of boat and not really suitable if you want reasonable performance.

Petrol wise you could go for something like a rover V8 as there are kits to marinise but this wouldn't be economical.

Either way it won't be cheap. You will need the marinisation kit (heat exchanger, raw water pump etc), a reduction gearbox, and a suitable sized prop. If you could just fit a 4 stroke outboard engine on I reakon it would be more economical in the long term.

What make/model of boat is it?

corglass

Saab Ed wrote: »

You have to be carefull with Oil circulation. You might have to change the set up to a dry sump to stop oil starvation when the boat is moving up and down in the sea. Big old Detroit Diesel turbo V6 from an eighties Bombardier bus would be perfect. Lots of grunt , set up for marine use already as far as I know and there should be a good few of them left around the country.

i actually hadnt thought about the jumping around effecting the oil. good point. any idea saab ed where i'd get on of these?

Saab Ed

corglass wrote: »

i actually hadnt thought about the jumping around effecting the oil. good point. any idea saab ed where i'd get on of these?

Not sure but there was a scrap yard up in Louth that had 100's of these lumps. Maybe someone else on here will know where that is. I'll have a look on other forums to see. Maybe start a thread " Where can i get a Detroit Diesel 6V71 engine in Ireland "

I found this video on Facetube, God they sound lovely.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Auxntwy0vKk

corglass

thanks saab ed. p.s. if i have no look searchin i might just start two threads, 1 for the engine and 1 for the location of the louth scrap yard!!

Ferris

Saab Ed wrote: »

Not sure but there was a scrap yard up in Louth that had 100's of these lumps. Maybe someone else on here will know where that is. I'll have a look on other forums to see. Maybe start a thread " Where can i get a Detroit Diesel 6V71 engine in Ireland "

I found this video on Facetube, God they sound lovely.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Auxntwy0vKk

Aren't they a two stroke diesel? They run them on tyne class lifeboats, there were a couple of incidents where lage waves choked the exhausts and the engines started back up in reverse .

Either way one of them is going to be way too heavy for a 19ft speedboat.

Saab Ed

corglass wrote: »

thanks saab ed. p.s. if i have no look searchin i might just start two threads, 1 for the engine and 1 for the location of the louth scrap yard!!

Well before you do just listen to this. Its another Detroit in full flight. man I love those engines....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQUTHh3N1XM&feature=related

argosy2006

The old e type diesel merc 1995-1990? or there abouts,,,
250d or 300d,,, reliable,, lots of torque .no electronics ?

Saab Ed

Ferris wrote: »

Either way one of them is going to be way too heavy for a 19ft speedboat.

I dont know the first thing about boats so I'll have to bow to your superior knowledge on that one.

Theres one in this video....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xypigwaqwnc&feature=PlayList&p=4FAF6B47FFF6F8A4&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=15

Would that be too big. Its not gonna take up much more space than a 4 litre lexus V8 or the like.

my w124 250d had f all torque

Saab Ed

RoverJames wrote: »

my w124 250d had f all torque

Ferris

Saab Ed wrote: »

I dont know the first thing about boats so I'll have to bow to your superior knowledge on that one.

Theres one in this video....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xypigwaqwnc&feature=PlayList&p=4FAF6B47FFF6F8A4&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=15

Would that be too big. Its not gonna take up much more space than a 4 litre lexus V8 or the like.

Its not just the size (actually being a 2 stroke its quite compact for the output) but the weight. Also gearbox and sterngland will add the engines length again onto the back. For a speedboat you need a small light engine.

Saab Ed

Ferris wrote: »

Its not just the size (actually being a 2 stroke its quite compact for the output) but the weight. Also gearbox and sterngland will add the engines length again onto the back. For a speedboat you need a small light engine.

Yeah I've just stepped out 19 feet and its not that much. Man that would be some yoke to go though.

OP Dont listen to Ferris and just do it.......and let us all know here on boards where the launch will be. This I'd have to see *

* Actuall advice may be incorrect.

swe_fi

Some inspiration, this is completely homebrew, it's not running perfectly clean but they are mapping the engine here i think. Please note takes an age to load but worth it to see.

http://racemovie.mine.nu/movies/hilmersson/jetbat_mappning.mpg

I looked up some stuff in relation to engines and the main things (you may know already) , this is me translating from mother tongue so apologies if terminology is incorrect.

Marine engines have special:
Cam/-timing
Cover over cam-sprockets (for sweetwaterpump)
Oil-cooler
Top
Oiltray

Also
Starter engine
Generator
Top- is plugged where channels from water pump sit on a car engine. The water pump is mounted in the cam-axles extension

The above relates to a Volvo Penta B20/B23. One of my friends had one of these in a boat bigger then 19 foot and you can easily water ski after that. Top speed for that boat was 37-40 knots, which you'd reach in no-time.

But seems like you want something out of the ordinary and I totally encourage & dig that. The world needs more people like you for sure.

argosy2006

RoverJames wrote: »

my w124 250d had f all torque

300d has the power. 6 cylinder

argosy2006

argosy2006 wrote: »

300d has the power. 6 cylinder

I don't doubt it but your initial post mentioned the 250d, I think the one I had was about 90bhp and 150Nm of torque. I currently have a petrol 1.6 that has about 140Nm. There was a 250td available so that's no doubt better than the thing I had.

af_thefragile

???

Ferris

Saab Ed wrote: »

Yeah I've just stepped out 19 feet and its not that much. Man that would be some yoke to go though.

OP Dont listen to Ferris and just do it.......and let us all know here on boards where the launch will be. This I'd have to see *

* Actuall advice may be incorrect.

If you're going the whole hog, Marine gas turbines ftw :eek:!



Seriously tho something like this engine sterndrive package might suit, but an outboard would be cheaper.

http://engines.apolloduck.com/feature.phtml?id=111648

MetzgerMeister

You'd get a lovelt sound from a Renesis engine from a Mazda RX-8

GTE

The VW SDI engine is constantly linked to being a "marine" and "industrial" engine, maybe that could work. Of if you need speed get some mad fecker of a turbo diesel

Merc 3.5 CDI lol

Tea 1000

You do need a surprising amount of torque for marine applications. If you look at even 90hp outboards they're 6 cylinders.
Honda do plenty of Marine engines, and based on that maybe an engine from a Honda might be easier to modify for marine use. How about an engine from a Legend?
Or for smaller engines how about the 1.8 litre V6 from Mazda or the 2 litre V6 Mivec from Mitsubishi?

corglass

Tea 1000 wrote: »

You do need a surprising amount of torque for marine applications. If you look at even 90hp outboards they're 6 cylinders.
Honda do plenty of Marine engines, and based on that maybe an engine from a Honda might be easier to modify for marine use. How about an engine from a Legend?
Or for smaller engines how about the 1.8 litre V6 from Mazda or the 2 litre V6 Mivec from Mitsubishi?

Thanks for the replys everyone. I'm getting planty of ideas, even if some are kinda crazy.

I know many people convert the engines to use water from below the boat for cooling, but I plan on using just the ordinary radiator. (It works on land, so why not on water?)

I'll let ye boards people when the launch is, (probably arround carrick-on-shannon) if anyone's interested.

p.s. Current thinking is either a larger turbo diesel or a NA V8....

swe_fi

corglass wrote: »

Thanks for the replys everyone. I'm getting planty of ideas, even if some are kinda crazy.

I know many people convert the engines to use water from below the boat for cooling, but I plan on using just the ordinary radiator. (It works on land, so why not on water?)

I'll let ye boards people when the launch is, (probably arround carrick-on-shannon) if anyone's interested.

p.s. Current thinking is either a larger turbo diesel or a NA V8....

I will be there. Just one thing, using the radiator from the car might work (I'm no expert) but in my mind it will not. I did some reading up on this because it is such an inspiring project and the reason is that the engine works MUCH harder in water at lower revs & speed = no wind cooling the radiator and just me guessing you are revving 3000 revs doing lets say 15 knots (just before plane) that would probably be equivalent resistance to doing 100-120 km/h up a steep hill - your engine would be asking for a lot of cooling at this stage. Good luck anyway.

Ferris

corglass wrote: »

I know many people convert the engines to use water from below the boat for cooling, but I plan on using just the ordinary radiator. (It works on land, so why not on water?)

Problem with that is that the engine will be working a lot harder in the boat than in the car so the engine will generate more heat. Also for a given number of revs the boat will be travelling 1/4'ish the speed of the car so the airflow around the radiator will be less in the boat. Another thing is that the inside of the boat will be relatively out of the slipstream so airflow will be less again unless you deck mount the rad. The fans will not run all the time as their motors are not designed for continious use.

The only solution to this if you are going down this route is to use an aircooled engine from a beetle (or porsche but £££) maybe?

Saab Ed

Ferris wrote: »

Another thing is that the inside of the boat will be relatively out of the slipstream so airflow will be less again unless you deck mount the rad. The fans will not run all the time as their motors are not designed for continious use.

The only solution to this if you are going down this route is to use an aircooled engine from a beetle (or porsche but £££) maybe?

...or a crank driven fan on a viscous coupling


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viscous_coupling_unit

Tea 1000

Or an air-cooled turbo diesel from a Same tractor! Plenty of torque there!

Pkiernan

For boats, economy and grunt tend to be mutually exclusive.

Remember that there will be no gearing!

I had a Mastercraft wakeboarding boat with a 5.7 liter V8 Corvette engine - it was fantastic, and could hit about 45 to 50mph on the water.

But fuel economy was never mentioned! And this was in the States where the Marina would charge about $3.00 a gallon.

A days wakeboarding would use up about 40 gallons of fuel.

David09

I'm breaking a rotten 98 ford transit 2.5 di? Would the engine be any interest to you? I'm not sure what the prerequisites are for what you're doing but the engine in the van is 2.5 non turbo diesel and is direct injection, therefore not equipped with any glowplugs. It starts first turn, cold or hot.
They're an ultra reliable lump, with some good design features such as non-interference in the event of timing belt breakage and as mentioned the absence of glowplugs for starting.
The downside is that they can be noisy and underpowered.

If you have any interest in it PM me.

CJhaughey

Yanmar already do a marinised version of the Toyota 1HD-FT engine, it's good for 230kw or so.
They call it the 6LP-STP.
Should be easy to find and setup with a few additional Yanmar parts.