Ongoing religious scandals

Ickle Magoo

ScienceNerd wrote: »

Doesn't matter if the tooth fairy caused it, they still covered it up

And they still fiscally support nuns and priest that have admitted to and/or been convicted of child abuse offences...and then have the brass neck to ask their parishioners to cough up to pay court costs and victim compensation as well! :eek: :mad:

Zillah

Erren Music wrote: »

In all fairness zillah religion proves itself false.

You have read most of the threads on this forum. No religious poster can argue with ANY of the points against religion because there are none.

I would have thought that you would understand but I guess you are happiest when you come in with your usual withering comments, and your fans come along with their thanks.

Grow up.

We are at a pivotal time in history where we can rid the world of this delusion, and it is a delusion.

I agree that the religious don't argue their position well, because it is a poor position. But you didn't answer my question: If we are not to debate them then what? Concentration camps?

Irlandese

not sure if this is the right thread, but wanted to share this from todays NYT

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2010/03/25/world/europe/20100325-priestabuse-timeline.html?ref=europe

Erren Music

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

Would you just stop! Stop telling people to grow up and telling them what the forum should be and telling them what "we" should be doing like you are trying to captain and mobilise some imaginary atheist army. I like debating with theists, it's good fun; there are no proofs - that's why there is debate. This whole heavy handed anti-theist aggression is as rabid and unattractive as the worst arguments for religion.

So you are happy for the church to stay in control of primary schools, and you are happy wasting your time going around in circles. Good for you.

What do you think of Dawkins?

Zillah wrote: »

I agree that the religious don't argue their position well, because it is a poor position. But you didn't answer my question: If we are not to debate them then what? Concentration camps?

The point is that there is no position.

They believe in something similar to the tooth fairy and santa, therefore any type of rational discussion is impossible. Their level of indoctrination blinds them to reason.

I have read every thread on this forum (and christianity) over the last while and all arguments are now just circular. The religious cannot answer the questions they are asked.

The future of this forum is just going to be continually rehashing all the same threads, what is the point?

Dades

Erren Music wrote: »

So you are happy for the church to stay in control of primary schools, and you are happy wasting your time going around in circles. Good for you.

That is a leap of judgment many theists would be proud of.

Erren Music wrote: »

I have read every thread on this forum (and christianity) over the last while and all arguments are now just circular. The religious cannot answer the questions they are asked.

The future of this forum is just going to be continually rehashing all the same threads, what is the point?

Trust me, everything you have said has also been said before. You aren't a breath of fresh air. People here enjoy a debate whether or not anyone ever 'wins'.

This is not the forum you want it to be.

robindch

Erren Music wrote: »

The future of this forum is just going to be continually rehashing all the same threads

Welcome to the internet!

robindch

The catholic church in Connecticut is fighting a move to extend the statute of limitations for allegations of pedophilia.

In a letter posted on the luridly-colored website of the Connecticut Catholic Public Affairs Conference, the state's bishops are urging parishioners to repeat an "aggressive action" of last year in order to defeat the legislation, since the "bill would put all Church institutions, including your parish, at risk":

The Bishops of Connecticut wrote:

Ultimately the legislation would undermine the mission of the Catholic Church in Connecticut, threatening our parishes, our schools, and our Catholic Charities.

They also write:

CCPAC wrote:

When similar bills passed in California and Delaware, the result was over 1,250 plaintiffs filing suit against Catholic institutions, two dioceses in bankruptcy, efforts to foreclose on parish and diocesan properties, and the transfer of over $1.3 billion from Catholic institutions and their insurers to claimants and their counsel.

Interesting to see them unhappy that their corporate victims are employing lawyers.

Zillah

Erren Music wrote: »

The future of this forum is just going to be continually rehashing all the same threads, what is the point?

Then what the hell are you doing here?

Seriously, you've come to a website to argue with people about stopping arguing with the religious because it has no purpose. There's got to be a sketch in there somewhere.

Ickle Magoo

Erren Music wrote: »

So you are happy for the church to stay in control of primary schools, and you are happy wasting your time going around in circles. Good for you.

And what part of bitching at other atheists do think gets you a step closer to a secular education system?

Your assumptions are almost as astonishingly ignorant as they are factually incorrect. I'm actually on a board which is currently doing it's damnedest to set up one of the first ET secondary schools in Ireland - am I really the one wasting my time or just going around in circles here? Or do you think it's possible that the old adage re catching more flies with honey than vinegar could have a grain of truth in it?

Erren Music wrote: »

What do you think of Dawkins?

Dawkins is an entertaining read. I like him because I agree with a lot of what he's saying and he's put in print much of what I have thought all my life. What's that got to do with anything?

Irlandese

robindch wrote: »

The catholic church in Connecticut is fighting a move to extend the statute of limitations for allegations of pedophilia.

In a letter posted on the luridly-colored website of the Connecticut Catholic Public Affairs Conference, the state's bishops are urging parishioners to repeat an "aggressive action" of last year in order to defeat the legislation, since the "bill would put all Church institutions, including your parish, at risk":They also write:Interesting to see them unhappy that their corporate victims are employing lawyers.

Thanks for that up-date.
Sorry if you have seen this before, but just in case:
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2...tml?ref=europe

PeterIanStaker

Gotta hand it to them. Just when you think they couldnt get any more deluded, they prove you wrong.

axer

robindch wrote: »

The catholic church in Connecticut is fighting a move to extend the statute of limitations for allegations of pedophilia.

In a letter posted on the luridly-colored website of the Connecticut Catholic Public Affairs Conference, the state's bishops are urging parishioners to repeat an "aggressive action" of last year in order to defeat the legislation, since the "bill would put all Church institutions, including your parish, at risk":They also write:Interesting to see them unhappy that their corporate victims are employing lawyers.

What a$$holes. If only there was a hell...

Irlandese

Irlandese wrote: »

Thanks for that up-date.
Sorry if you have seen this before, but just in case:
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2...tml?ref=europe

Sorry, people, that link seems to be blocked, but have a look at this interesting story in Rome. The Pope's number two really should have left well enough alone re their new gays=paedofiles attempted red herring. This one will out a lot of unpleasant truths very close to home:


"NSA.it > News in English > News
Gay ire at Church paedophilia 'link'
Activists blast Vatican No.2
13 April, 18:01

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Gay ire at Church paedophilia 'link' (ANSA) - Rome, April 13 - Italian gay groups on Tuesday slammed Vatican No.2 Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone for claiming there was a link between homosexuality and paedophilia.

In a Monday press conference in Chile on sex abuse scandals, Secretary of State (interior minister) Bertone reaffirmed the Vatican's stance there was no link between paedophilia and celibacy but "many experts" had demonstrated a link with homosexuality.

Italy's oldest gay group, Arcigay, called Bertone's statement "false, ignoble and anti-scientific".

Bertone had "confirmed the cynicism, lack of scruples and cruelty of the very same Catholic hierarchy which for years covered up sex crimes perpetrated on thousands of innocent children by Church members all over the world," said Arcigay chief Paolo Patane'.

"The Church shouldn't try to shift the blame onto innocent people but ask itself about its lack of humanity," he said.

A former Arcigay president, Aurelio Mancuso, urged the Church, "instead of covering up decades of abuse, to toss out all homosexual priests and nuns, starting with the Vatican Curia".

"But perhaps there would be too many cardinals, bishops, heads of religious orders and parish priests who would have to leave their cozy jobs," he added.

Centre-right group Gaylib said the Vatican should "ask for the world's forgiveness" at the UN General Assembly and said Bertone's claim was "out of date, even in the Third World".

"Since they speak the same language, it might be a good idea to move the Vatican to Tehran".

A criminologist for activist group La Caramella Buona (The Good Sweet), Roberta Bruzzone, accused Bertone of perpetuating homophobic notions at a time when gay hate crimes were on the rise.

A gay theological study centre in Milan said Bertone should spend more time trying to find out why Italian and foreign parishes allegedly no longer send candidates to a prestigious 'pre-seminary' in the Vatican that produces altar boys for St Peter's. photo: Bertone photo: Bertone "

http://www.ansa.it/web/notizie/rubriche/english/2010/04/13/visualizza_new.html_1762452946.html

hiorta

The more it wriggles, the more impaled it becomes.

robindch

Here's the New Yorker's ever-useful Hendrik Hertzberg on the scandals currently assailing the Vatican:

Hendrik Hertzberg wrote:

[...]

The Catholic Church is an authoritarian institution, modelled on the political structures of the Roman Empire and medieval Europe. It is better at transmitting instructions downward than at facilitating accountability upward. It is monolithic. It claims the unique legitimacy of a line of succession going back to the apostolic circle of Jesus Christ. Its leaders are protected by a nimbus of mystery, pomp, holiness, and, in the case of the Pope, infallibility—to be sure, only in certain doctrinal matters, not administrative ones, but the aura is not so selective. The hierarchy of such an institution naturally resists admitting to moral turpitude and sees squalid scandal as a mortal threat. Equally important, the government of the Church is entirely male.

It is not “anti-Catholic” to hypothesize that these things may have something to do with the Church’s extraordinary difficulty in coming to terms with clerical sexual abuse. The iniquities now roiling the Catholic Church are more shocking than the ones that so outraged Martin Luther. But the broader society in which the Church is embedded has grown incomparably freer. To the extent that the Church manages to purge itself of its shame—its sins, its crimes—it will owe a debt of gratitude to the lawyers, the journalists, and, above all, the victims and families who have had the courage to persevere, against formidable resistance, in holding it to account. Without their efforts, the suffering of tens of thousands of children would still be a secret. Our largely democratic, secularist, liberal, pluralist modern world, against which the Church has so often set its face, turns out to be its best teacher—and the savior, you might say, of its most vulnerable, most trusting communicants.

goat2

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

And they still fiscally support nuns and priest that have admitted to and/or been convicted of child abuse offences...and then have the brass neck to ask their parishioners to cough up to pay court costs and victim compensation as well! :eek: :mad:

it is like rubbing mud in our faces.
we all pay for the wrongs we do
we do not ask others to do it for us
these are a bunch of adult men asking mothers children for money
should hang their heads in shame

Irlandese

hiorta wrote: »

The more it wriggles, the more impaled it becomes.

It gets even more interesting as we look to the future, perhaps towards a RC Church that will happily embrace all forms of sexual expression:

http://www.ewtn.com/library/ISSUES/DISSTHEO.TXT

"EX-JESUIT'S BOOK LINKS DISSIDENT THEOLOGIANS TO HOMOSEXUAL
MOVEMENT

By Paul Likoudis

The role of "small faith communities" and the "new biblical scholarship" in
institutionalizing the homosexual agenda in the Catholic Church is clearly spelled out
in a powerful book written by an ex-Jesuit who left the order after he fell in love with a
fellow Jesuit.

The book, Dr. Robert Goss' <Jesus Acted Up>, published by Harper San Francisco last
year, is a tour de force, providing incontrovertible evidence of the link between
dissident theologians and the rise of a militant homosexual movement in the Church,
one committed to overthrowing the Church's 2,000-year moral and doctrinal tradition.

In his heavily annotated book, Goss, who holds advanced degrees in Scripture studies
from the Jesuit Weston School of Theology and Harvard University, shows how such
contemporary Catholic scholars as Hans Kung, Raymond Brown, Andre Guindon, John
Dominic Crossan, John Meier, James Drane, Paul Hollenbach, Xavier John Seubert,
Mary Hunt, Rosemary Radford Ruether, Leonardo Boff, Jon Sobrino, and dozens of
others-many of whom remain "in good standing" with the American hierarchy-are
dismantling orthodox theology while reconstructing a new "queer theology" that
affirms the sexual experiences of homosexuals, lesbians, and bisexuals.

Though all of these scholars write from different perspectives and have different
agendas, Dr. Goss shows how each in his own way is demolishing Catholic teaching on
Jesus and His Church in order to rework Catholic moral teaching into an "inclusive," "
non-patriarchal, " " non-sexist, " "liberating" form of Christianity which can celebrate
gay and lesbian sexuality-indeed, which affirms it as superior to heterosexuality which
is said to have been culturally imposed.

The "fundamental identity" of God's children as heterosexual, insists Goss in numerous
passages, is "based on an erroneous reading of Scriptures and a faulty view of sexuality
based on natural law" (p. 13).

The starting point for the dismantling of traditional Christian moral teaching begins
with the new biblical scholarship which denies or calls into question orthodox belief
that Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit and born of a virgin.

"This notion," writes Goss, "was transformed into the antisexual rhetoric as Christianity
evolved in the Hellenistic world." As Christianity spread through the Greek world,
Jesus was divinized, he charges, and made asexual. This was essentially a political ploy
to shore up the collapsing world of patriarchy, the family, and the Church. For nearly
2,000 years, Christ's maleness and the maleness of God were used "to justify rampant
ecclesial and social misogyny. "

Now, led by feminist scholars, the meaning of Christ is being "widened" to "include
feminist social practice," and Christ is no longer male but female, Christa, a symbol of
erotic power which "will transform a world that includes our own personal lives in
relation. "

Following feminist theology comes "queer criticism" which "radically questions
contemporary heterosexual or past asexual constructions of christological discourse. It
unpacks sexual oppositions that have been glossed over in totalizing truth claims of
Christian discourse. It uses feminist reconstructive practice against misogyny as part of
its discourse. It employs its own critical-practice against homophobia, but it also
constructs queer bodies, queer selves, and queer sexuality. In feminist and queer critical
practice, the erotic self is embodied over and against the apathetic self. The recovery of
bodily connectedness and the affirmation of the erotic goodness of the body provide a
corrective to the Augustinian severity that has long dominated Christian discourse....

"Queer criticism recognizes christological discourse as historically constructed through
misogyny, antisexuality, and homophobia. A queer Christology starts with Jesus'
practice and death and reconstructs the claims of Easter within queer critical practice."

Jesus' death had nothing to do with dying for sin, asserts Goss, but was a political act
because Jesus threatened the political order represented by the Jewish aristocracy and
Roman overlords. Easter represents God's "liberative praxis," which challenges all
forms of oppression, domination, and exploitation, allowing His people to experience
new forms of freedom and solidarity.

Thanks to feminist and liberation theologians, homosexuals can claim a "gay-sensitive
Jesus. " Some theologians are now positing a homosexual Jesus, who loved Lazarus.

"Many queer Christians feel comfortable with the affection that Jesus had for Lazarus,
for Mary Magdalen, and for the beloved disciple. They feel at home with the affectional
ease of Jesus with both men and women. Jesus broke many of the gender patterns and
hierarchies of patriarchal power. Thus, the gay and lesbian community has raised the
question of Jesus' sexual intimacy, claiming Jesus as one of their own," writes Goss.

THE DOWN SIDE

Unfortunately, for Goss, standing in the way of the liberating insights of the new
biblical scholars is Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger and the Sacred Congregation for the
Doctrine of the Faith, which continues to use the Bible as a "weapon of terror against
gay men and lesbians."

In chapter 4, "A Queer Biblical Hermeneutic," Goss provides a thorough review of the
"new biblical scholarship," and how it supports a "queer Christology" and a rationale
for homosexuality; first by arguing that there is nothing in the Bible which can be used
as a "text for terror" against homosexuals once those passages-i.e., in <Genesis,
Leviticus>, or the Epistles of St. Paul-are understood in light of contemporary exegesis.

But "it is not enough to dismantle homophobic biblical interpretations. Biblical texts can
enhance the queer battle for truth and the struggle for liberation. A queer critical
reading of the Scriptures transforms texts into narratives of resistance, releasing
powerful motivational elements in our struggle against homophobic oppression."

In chapter 5, Goss calls for stepping up the confrontation with Church leaders. "Critical
confrontation of ecclesial oppression is an essential strategy in queer Christian
practice." Confrontation works where dialog does not, forcing Church leaders to see
that the "homosexual experience is moral.

Crucial to the development of a new, inclusive Church is the creation of Queer
Christian Base Communities.

Small faith communities, Goss explains, are "a new way of envisioning and expressing
a Christian presence among oppressed exiles. Base communities become nurturing
alternative forms of community practice that challenge homophobic power relations in
churches and in society.... By witnessing to the gospel of God's preferential option for
the oppressed, they replicate Jesus' <basileia> action and indicate God's saving
initiative....

"It is time to create hundreds and thousands of gay/lesbian affirming base
communities of faith that practice God's justice. It is time to break the grip that
homophobia/heterosexism exercises upon the discourse and practice of churches. It is
our moment to radically challenge churches to practice God's solidarity with the
oppressed.... Gay and lesbian believers must no longer submit to the belief that their
relationships do not reflect God's love and justice. Making love and doing justice have
become synonymous for gay and lesbian people."

In addition to confronting the Church, gays and lesbians have to liberate God "from
ecclesial practice. God is neither heterosexist nor homophobic....

"Queer Christians refuse to leave Jesus Christ, the Bible, and the social practices of
church under ecclesial fundamentalistic control. Queer theological practice refuses to
leave God in the hands of the homophobic or misogynistic power class of clerics."

Instead, God must be seen as "erotic power." To Goss, God is "transgenderal and
panerotic," the symbol of sexual liberation. "God is reconceptualized and experienced
as the shared erotic power that liberates lesbians and gays from sexual alienation,
homophobic oppression, gender domination, closetedness, oppression sickness, and
abusive violence."

SUMMARY

The bottom line of <Jesus Acted Up>, which has sold approximately 8,000 copies,
according to the publisher, is that homosexual sex is a sacrament, a higher spirituality
reflecting a more intimate understanding of God.

Its basic thesis is that since homosexuals enjoy greater sexual pleasure than
heterosexuals, their understanding of God is more complete. Since that is so,
homosexuals have a mission to bring the Church into a new awareness of the power of
homosexual love.

Goss offers a pleasure-oriented theology based on the historical/critical method of
biblical studies, and a horizontal model of church whose members are united by
common experiences of pleasure.

Indeed, the pursuit of sexual pleasure is the new religion of the new theologians, and
just about the only moral problem faced by the practitioners of the new religion is
whether or not to "out" closeted Church leaders.

Goss spends more than a page analyzing the dilemma, and concludes that if a secret
homosexual, such as the prominent president of a major Catholic institution, is
supportive of the gay community, then he should not be "outed"; however, the secret
homosexual bishop, who is not supportive of homosexuals, should be "outed."

This article was taken from the August 24, 1995 issue of "The Wanderer," 201 Ohio
Street, St. Paul, MN 55107, 612-224-5733. Subscription Price: $35.00 per year; six months
$20.00.

---

Provided courtesy of:
Eternal Word Television Network
5817 Old Leeds Road
Irondale, AL 35210
www.ewtn.com

Irlandese

ahem,
I sort of agreed with this one too, just a little bit...although I think we Irish are better at the old put-down than the brits, any day..

"Dawkins: ‘Ratzinger is the Perfect Pope’

I wager that the British can unleash more gleefully scathing insults than anyone else in the world. No one else gives as much robust verbal flavor and intellectual ass-whackery to those they wish to take down a notch or two. Take the delightful and brilliant author, scientist, and loud-and-proud atheist Richard Dawkins and his recent commendation of Pope Benedict XVI in the wake of many critiques and criticisms concerning child abuse in the Roman Catholic Church:

“Should the pope resign?”
No. As the College of Cardinals must have recognized when they elected him, he is perfectly – ideally – qualified to lead the Roman Catholic Church. A leering old villain in a frock, who spent decades conspiring behind closed doors for the position he now holds; a man who believes he is infallible and acts the part; a man whose preaching of scientific falsehood is responsible for the deaths of countless AIDS victims in Africa; a man whose first instinct when his priests are caught with their pants down is to cover up the scandal and damn the young victims to silence: in short, exactly the right man for the job. He should not resign, moreover, because he is perfectly positioned to accelerate the downfall of the evil, corrupt organization whose character he fits like a glove, and of which he is the absolute and historically appropriate monarch.

No, Pope Ratzinger should not resign. He should remain in charge of the whole rotten edifice – the whole profiteering, woman-fearing, guilt-gorging, truth-hating, child-raping institution – while it tumbles, amid a stench of incense and a rain of tourist-kitsch sacred hearts and preposterously crowned virgins, about his ears."

http://www.godlessgirl.com/2010/03/dawkins-ratzinger-is-the-perfect-pope/

rovert

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0413/cardinal.html

Guilty or stress you decide

Irlandese

rovert wrote: »

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0413/cardinal.html

Guilty or stress you decide

Looks more to me like he is now trying the "Tiger Woods- book me into a clinic" defense,
seeing as the crocodile "oh poor me" tears didn't work.
Good on ya, Brady, you are playin a stormer...............

PeterIanStaker

Irlandese wrote: »

Looks more to me like he is now trying the "Tiger Woods- book me into a clinic" defense,
seeing as the crocodile "oh poor me" tears didn't work.
Good on ya, Brady, you are playin a stormer...............

Soon as you mentioned Tiger Woods I thought "sex addict". . . .

axer

rovert wrote: »

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0413/cardinal.html

Guilty or stress you decide

God is punishing him! :pac:

Dades

axer wrote: »

God is punishing him! :pac:

Maybe he doesn't move in mysterious ways, after all.

Min

Irlandese wrote: »

ahem,
I sort of agreed with this one too, just a little bit...although I think we Irish are better at the old put-down than the brits, any day..

"Dawkins: ‘Ratzinger is the Perfect Pope’

I wager that the British can unleash more gleefully scathing insults than anyone else in the world. No one else gives as much robust verbal flavor and intellectual ass-whackery to those they wish to take down a notch or two. Take the delightful and brilliant author, scientist, and loud-and-proud atheist Richard Dawkins and his recent commendation of Pope Benedict XVI in the wake of many critiques and criticisms concerning child abuse in the Roman Catholic Church:

“Should the pope resign?”
No. As the College of Cardinals must have recognized when they elected him, he is perfectly – ideally – qualified to lead the Roman Catholic Church. A leering old villain in a frock, who spent decades conspiring behind closed doors for the position he now holds; a man who believes he is infallible and acts the part; a man whose preaching of scientific falsehood is responsible for the deaths of countless AIDS victims in Africa; a man whose first instinct when his priests are caught with their pants down is to cover up the scandal and damn the young victims to silence: in short, exactly the right man for the job. He should not resign, moreover, because he is perfectly positioned to accelerate the downfall of the evil, corrupt organization whose character he fits like a glove, and of which he is the absolute and historically appropriate monarch.

No, Pope Ratzinger should not resign. He should remain in charge of the whole rotten edifice – the whole profiteering, woman-fearing, guilt-gorging, truth-hating, child-raping institution – while it tumbles, amid a stench of incense and a rain of tourist-kitsch sacred hearts and preposterously crowned virgins, about his ears."

http://www.godlessgirl.com/2010/03/dawkins-ratzinger-is-the-perfect-pope/

What an idiot Dawkins is, science shows in the ABC shows it is BAC that is the order of most effective, Dawkins preaches C the least effective, the Pope preaches A and B the most effective, how many people has Dawkins killed through his preaching of lies regarding AIDS?

mewso

Min wrote: »

What an idiot Dawkins is, science shows in the ABC shows it is BAC that is the order of most effective, Dawkins preaches C the least effective, the Pope preaches A and B the most effective, how many people has Dawkins killed through his preaching of lies regarding AIDS?

Not the old abstinence crock. You know thats like saying if you didn't abstain then it's your own fault. Most of us live in the real world. You know the one where people actually do have sex. So how best to avoid contracting diseases under those kind of circumstances is the practical approach.

Flamed Diving

Min wrote: »

What an idiot Dawkins is, science shows in the ABC shows it is BAC that is the order of most effective, Dawkins preaches C the least effective, the Pope preaches A and B the most effective, how many people has Dawkins killed through his preaching of lies regarding AIDS?

If any of the drivel you just posted is true, then very few, if any. For Dawkins does not lay claim to be God's representative on Earth, channelling his will and commands through a nonce-smuggling German. When it comes to African Catholics in aids-plagued zones, which one do you reckon they will listen to?

PDN

Flamed Diving wrote: »

When it comes to African Catholics in aids-plagued zones, which one do you reckon they will listen to?

Apparently neither, since if they were listening to the Pope in the first place very few of them would contract AIDS.

mehfesto

PDN wrote: »

Apparently neither, since if they were listening to the Pope in the first place very few of them would contract AIDS.

Yeah. Bloody Africans. How dare they have sex when they knew nothing about AIDS. The cheek of them. Serves them right, the horrid death that they all will incur. Bloody rumours it was that AIDS could be contracted through blood, mothers milk, etc. Some chap in a big palace surrounded by guards, wads of money and food sure had the common touch. He knew what they needed - more repression!!!

We know they're ALL catholic too. THEY WERE WARNED!

PDN

mehfesto wrote: »

Yeah. Bloody Africans. How dare they have sex when they knew nothing about AIDS. The cheek of them. Serves them right, the horrid death that they all will incur. Bloody rumours it was that AIDS could be contracted through blood, mothers milk, etc. Some chap in a big palace surrounded by guards, wads of money and food sure had the common touch. He knew what they needed - more repression!!!

We know they're ALL catholic too. THEY WERE WARNED!

What on earth are you on about. Not much point in trying to have a sensible discussion here if you're going to indulge in that kind of stuff.

Hey, why not just imply that I think women who get raped deserve it? Why stop at one bit of stupidity? :rolleyes:

My point was that a considerable number of Catholics in Africa don't listen to either the Pope or Richard Dawkins.

Most adults (I never said all, so put that strawman back in your pocket) who contract AIDS do so through extra-marital sexual activity. If they listened to the Pope then they obviously wouldn't be engaging in such activity.

Nobody is suggesting that it served them right - so why try to inflame the thread by bringing that into it?

I profoundly disagree with the Pope's position on condoms - but I think there's a fair bit of hypocrisy comes from those who seem to think that African Catholics are saying, "I'm going to shag a prostitute because I don't give a hoot what my Church teaches about abstinence, but I won't use a condom because I'm just a dumb African Catholic who does everything the Pope tells me."

As for repression, there are millions of Africans who chose to belong to the Catholic Church. I don't agree with their beliefs - but I support their right to practice them of their own free will. Where's the repression in that?

Galvasean

PDN wrote: »

Hey, why not just imply that I think women who get raped deserve it? Why stop at one bit of stupidity? :rolleyes:

Isn't that the Islamic line of thinking?