The North is a different country

Essexboy

"Four NI Water board members have been sacked following an investigation into how the company awards its contracts.

The company's chairman, Chris Mellor, and three other board members are to go following an independent report.

The report found that there had been a "serious breakdown in the governance and control framework" of the company. "

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/8563672.stm

If this organisation operated in the Republic, what action, if any, would have been taken?

Sulmac

Essexboy wrote: »

If this organisation operated in the Republic, what action, if any, would have been taken?

Promotion?

ei.sdraob

Sulmac wrote: »

Promotion?

pat on back and brown envelopes all around

alex73

Essexboy wrote: »

The North is a different country

yep its call the united kingdom.

Biggins

Essexboy wrote: »

...The report found that there had been a "serious breakdown in the governance and control framework" of the company."

"Well I really wasn't aware of the scale of the problem days ago till it came exposed in the media - despite me knowing about it for three months since December!" :rolleyes:

bmaxi

Slightly off topic but another example of the different approach in the two jurisdictions. There was a report on TV of how the UK Border Agency came across two Brazilian guys with false EU papers, the two were back in Brazil inside a week. Contrast that with the sham goings on here.
While I would be the last to put the Brits on a pedestal, there are certainly some areas of their administration that would put us to shame.

Joey the lips

Thats an interesting point. Perhaps republicians should not be hopeing the north joins south ireland soon perhaps we should be hopeing the the south joins the north

AlekSmart

Another interesting snippet....

The "Free Travel" issue.

Currently all Irish Republic Citizens over 66 have entitlement to Free Travel by virtue of possession of a piece of cardboard with an approriate coloured stripe.

When the 32 County extention was proposed by Minister Seamus Brennan there was a general expectation that we would reach some form of sortofa,kindofa nod n wink scheme based upon a Lump Sum paid to cover the projected useage by the qualifying Pass Holders.

This model has after all worked down sarf for decades...

However,our Northern Brethern were having nothing to do with "Estimated" useage figures,or "Lump Sums" ,not to mention pieces of coloured cardboard.....No Sir.

If we Southerners wish to avail of the Northern Public Transport services for free,we (the over 66`s) have to apply for a Translink issued Smart Card AND use it in the required manner,ie scan it on boarding...otherwise...no dice.

This enables the Northern folks to charge the Republic and amount reconciled with the ACTUAL free travel trips made...serious stuff made easy by the Northern Irish decision some years back to issue Smart Cards for Free Travel...we preferred to use the Kellogs box,as we could start a Garage Industry in forged versions and promote the entreprenurial skills of the forger on Prime Time Reports !

It`s a different country alright...by a VERY long shot..... :rolleyes:

Essexboy

alex73 wrote: »

yep its call the united kingdom.

Try not to read posts literally.

And Northern Ireland is only part of the UK.

PomBear

The thread title is a bit misleading and malinformed imo

Liam Byrne

PomBear wrote: »

The thread title is a bit misleading and malinformed imo

How so ?

It's part of the UK, so it's a different country.

OK, so the thread is highlighting how different it is (it might as well be a different planet given how they deal with corruption and unacceptable goings-on) but even taken literally it's factually correct.

PomBear

Liam Byrne wrote: »

How so ?

It's part of the UK, so it's a different country.

OK, so the thread is highlighting how different it is (it might as well be a different planet given how they deal with corruption and unacceptable goings-on) but even taken literally it's factually correct.

yes, but the original post isn't about the difference in countries

Liam Byrne

PomBear wrote: »

yes, but the original post isn't about the difference in countries

I think it is.......it states that those involved "are to go", whereas here they'd probably get an FF vote of confidence.

PomBear

Liam Byrne wrote: »

I think it is.......it states that those involved "are to go", whereas here they'd probably get an FF vote of confidence.

true but it's taking the story outta context i my opinion

OS119

the title of the thread, and the thrust of the OP's argument, is a pun on the phrase 'the past is a different country, they do things differently there'.

the OP is not really interested in the geographic nature of the location of the North, but - in a take on the above phrase - noting the difference in culture on this particular issue.

UltimateMale

Well it's great to see that the north has broken away from the blatant secterianism and corruption of the past despite the total resistance of the unionists to change. Maybe if the SDLP and Sinn Fein had a similiar input down here they might help to clean up the place also.

OS119

UltimateMale wrote: »

Well it's great to see that the north has broken away from the blatant secterianism and corruption of the past despite the total resistance of the unionists to change. Maybe if the SDLP and Sinn Fein had a similiar input down here they might help to clean up the place also.

i'm not sure why you believe that this has anything to do with the 'big P' political situation in NI, its rather more to do with culture and 'small p' politics - and while i'd agree that the significant participation of any of the Northern political parties in the south would have a beneficial impact, i'm pretty sure that it wouldn't be for the reason you think it would.

there is a rather unattractive argument to be made on this issue, but i don't think you'd like it...

Essexboy

OS119 wrote: »

the title of the thread, and the thrust of the OP's argument, is a pun on the phrase 'the past is a different country, they do things differently there'.

the OP is not really interested in the geographic nature of the location of the North, but - in a take on the above phrase - noting the difference in culture on this particular issue.

I could not have put it better myself! Thanks.

Jaap

UltimateMale wrote: »

Well it's great to see that the north has broken away from the blatant secterianism and corruption of the past despite the total resistance of the unionists to change. Maybe if the SDLP and Sinn Fein had a similiar input down here they might help to clean up the place also.

It's great to see that republicans have broken away from violence, murder and bombings in order to gain political advantage in the north...and now are realising that to get change in Northern Ireland you need to go there via the word democracy!
And Sinn Fein having such a big input down south as they do in Northern Ireland...what ex-terrorists running your government?...that is worse than the cronies you have running it now!

UltimateMale

OS119 wrote: »

i'm not sure why you believe that this has anything to do with the 'big P' political situation in NI, its rather more to do with culture and 'small p' politics - and while i'd agree that the significant participation of any of the Northern political parties in the south would have a beneficial impact, i'm pretty sure that it wouldn't be for the reason you think it would.

there is a rather unattractive argument to be made on this issue, but i don't think you'd like it...

" its rather more to do with culture and 'small p' politics "

Errrr, ehhhhmmmmm, let me guess........its rather more to do with Ulster Scotch ' culture ' and the Ulster Protestant work ethic etc,etc .

Tell me, if this ' culture ' was so superior in the first place, why was the north such a blatantly corruption secterian statelet under unionist domination for so long ?

UltimateMale

Jaap wrote: »

It's great to see that republicans have broken away from violence, murder and bombings in order to gain political advantage in the north...and now are realising that to get change in Northern Ireland you need to go there via the word democracy!
And Sinn Fein having such a big input down south as they do in Northern Ireland...what ex-terrorists running your government?...that is worse than the cronies you have running it now!

Well at least Gerry and co. seem to have given up the gun, though they were far from been the only ones using killing and maiming people as some people like to try and ignore.

" what ex-terrorists running your government? " Fianna Fail the Soldiers of Destiny for starters

OS119

UltimateMale wrote: »

" its rather more to do with culture and 'small p' politics "

Errrr, ehhhhmmmmm, let me guess........its rather more to do with Ulster Scotch ' culture ' and the Ulster Protestant work ethic etc,etc .

Tell me, if this ' culture ' was so superior in the first place, why was the north such a blatantly corruption secterian statelet under unionist domination for so long ?

i think you mistake politically driven subjugation of civil society for cash driven gombeen-ism.

the sectarian corruption you speak of - and i'm assuming you're talking about the allocation of housing, education, employment etc, and the gerrymandering of political and electoral systems - occured for a politically driven reason (not a very attractive thing in itself), not in a simple, cash-grabbing doctrine.

and no, i don't think the 'anti-corruption' culture and 'small-p' politics is an 'Ulster-Scots' thing, i think its a northern Europe thing...

gleep

Jaap wrote: »

It's great to see that republicans have broken away from violence, murder and bombings in order to gain political advantage in the north...and now are realising that to get change in Northern Ireland you need to go there via the word democracy!
And Sinn Fein having such a big input down south as they do in Northern Ireland...what ex-terrorists running your government?...that is worse than the cronies you have running it now!

The reason this went on is because:

"i think you mistake politically driven subjugation of civil society for cash driven gombeen-ism.the sectarian corruption you speak of - and i'm assuming you're talking about the allocation of housing, education, employment etc, and the gerrymandering of political and electoral systems - occured for a politically driven reason (not a very attractive thing in itself), not in a simple, cash-grabbing doctrine."

If we had lived under these conditions, we'd have done the same........oh, wait a minute, we DID endure the same sh1t at the hands of the Brits........but we didnt bomb or shoot anyone,........oh wait we DID! But it was a different time.........YADA YADA YADA get off the feckin soapbox

gleep

Anyhow, past politics aside, I think the difference in the treatment of the NI Water board and, say FAS, is that the NIW board were not political appointments. The Sinn Fein Minister, Conor Murphy didn't appoint them.
He didn't worry about the reflection on him, or any influence these people had behind the scenes, any dirt they had on others, etc. He just fired them, because it was the right thing to do.
The NI Executive is in it's infancy, there hasn't been time enough for the chronic cronyism to develop as it has here. I really hope it doesn't. They have a chance to learn from the structural mistakes of others and build a modern forward thinking executive. Then maybe it'll be adopted here.

Jaap

gleep wrote: »

The reason this went on is because:

"i think you mistake politically driven subjugation of civil society for cash driven gombeen-ism.the sectarian corruption you speak of - and i'm assuming you're talking about the allocation of housing, education, employment etc, and the gerrymandering of political and electoral systems - occured for a politically driven reason (not a very attractive thing in itself), not in a simple, cash-grabbing doctrine."

If we had lived under these conditions, we'd have done the same........oh, wait a minute, we DID endure the same sh1t at the hands of the Brits........but we didnt bomb or shoot anyone,........oh wait we DID! But it was a different time.........YADA YADA YADA get off the feckin soapbox

So bombing innocent protestants and catholics...shooting innocent protestants and catholics...for 30 years...that is the attitude to have if you feel you are being wronged? Criple the country you live in by deterring investment because it is subject to regular terrorist events!
Republicans are getting more concessions from the British Government by going through the political and democratic route nowadays! If only they had realised that sooner then thousands of people in the UK and Republic of Ireland wouldn't have had to suffer at the hands of terrorists!

gleep

Jaap wrote: »

So bombing innocent protestants and catholics...shooting innocent protestants and catholics...for 30 years...that is the attitude to have if you feel you are being wronged? Criple the country you live in by deterring investment because it is subject to regular terrorist events!
Republicans are getting more concessions from the British Government by going through the political and democratic route nowadays! If only they had realised that sooner then thousands of people in the UK and Republic of Ireland wouldn't have had to suffer at the hands of terrorists!

Ahem, I'm guessing you have never lived in the North, or maybe even on this planet. People in Ireland have suffered at the hands of "terrorists" for hundreds of years, these terrorists came from England and wore British army uniforms.
Just because someone drew a line around six counties on a map doesn't mean this stopped. Ever since the partition of Ireland the nationalist population was brutalised by orangemen, the RUC and army. When they marched peacefully and demanded civil rights they were beaten and shot dead.
Whole communities were burned and this was overseen by the establishment and ultimately by the British government.
Armed resistance is what followed.
Then came reprisals by Britain. These actions became worse and more abhorrent on both sides, until everyone basically had enough and wanted out.
Point is, I believe that Southeners are too quick to turn up noses at Republicans in the North. If forced to live under the same conditions for 50 years then eventually the militants would have had enough and struck back any way they could. And they would slowly have gained support from the community as Britain took revenge on the whole country, as happened in the North.
Nothing a history book wouldn't teach you.

Jaap

gleep wrote: »

[/B]


Ahem, I'm guessing you have never lived in the North, or maybe even on this planet. People in Ireland have suffered at the hands of "terrorists" for hundreds of years, these terrorists came from England and wore British army uniforms.
Just because someone drew a line around six counties on a map doesn't mean this stopped. Ever since the partition of Ireland the nationalist population was brutalised by orangemen, the RUC and army. When they marched peacefully and demanded civil rights they were beaten and shot dead.
Whole communities were burned and this was overseen by the establishment and ultimately by the British government.
Armed resistance is what followed.
Then came reprisals by Britain. These actions became worse and more abhorrent on both sides, until everyone basically had enough and wanted out.
Point is, I believe that Southeners are too quick to turn up noses at Republicans in the North. If forced to live under the same conditions for 50 years then eventually the militants would have had enough and struck back any way they could. And they would slowly have gained support from the community as Britain took revenge on the whole country, as happened in the North.
Nothing a history book wouldn't teach you.

I live in Northern Ireland...have done for 30 odd years!
The IRA (and loyalist terrorists for that matter) poisoned a lot of people in Northern Ireland...they embedded hatred and sectarianism on both sides! They manipulated and killed many people from their own communities...they were involved in racketeering, drugs, punishment beatings...robberies (Northern Bank springs to mind - how is that related to the aim of united Ireland or decrimination by the Brits!)
I was born and lived through the troubles...and thankfully brought up by decent parents who showed me what was right and wrong! Both sides were to blame...but gleep...defending terrorist actions (whether it be the IRA or UDA) which involved murdering kids, women, catholics, protestants...whatever floats your boat my friend...I think its sick!

gleep

Jaap, perhaps you should have a look at my stated point; Point is, I believe that Southeners are too quick to turn up noses at Republicans in the North.

Innocent men women and children were also killed by the "old" IRA, whose leaders are celebrated founders of the "Free State"

I'm not going to ask what area of the North you live, but I'm guessing you've never been beaten up by soldiers / "police" in a barracks or ion the back of a land rover, amongst other things. When this happens, most people look for a way to fight back. I do defend this.

Problem is, the only organisations they end up joining are engaged in some seriously wrong and sick activities. I do not defend these.

PomBear

gleep wrote: »

Jaap, perhaps you should have a look at my stated point; Point is, I believe that Southeners are too quick to turn up noses at Republicans in the North.

Innocent men women and children were also killed by the "old" IRA, whose leaders are celebrated founders of the "Free State"

I'm not going to ask what area of the North you live, but I'm guessing you've never been beaten up by soldiers / "police" in a barracks or ion the back of a land rover, amongst other things. When this happens, most people look for a way to fight back. I do defend this.

Problem is, the only organisations they end up joining are engaged in some seriously wrong and sick activities. I do not defend these.

I can accept there were wrong and sick activities but can I ask wat you believe were the alternatives? (I'm guessing you're refering to the P.I.R.A.)

Zambia

I really wish this thread was called something different, its from what I can see aimed at highlighting differences in administration between the UK and Ireland.
Yet has descended once again into

but the brits did this

and

but the Ra did that

AlekSmart

Yet has descended once again into

but the brits did this and ....but the Ra did that

Too True Zambia232....The Free Travel issue to me is FAR more important in todays Ireland than all the other historical stuff......how in Gods name did the Germans and French ever manage to find themselves together in the EU after all the stuff that THEY went through ???