Sleeping with your female friends

Scanlas The 2nd

Wouldn't it be convenient if you could have sex with your attractive female friends. It makes sense, you both have sexual needs and could help each other out without having a relationship exclusively. But its not quite as simple as that there are problems that a woman is weary about. But if you address these problems you'll dramatically increase your chances of getting sexual with your female friends.

The post below articulates it in better detail.

http://www.stevepavlina.com/forums/social-relationships/27425-converting-girl-friends-into-girlfriends.html

The keys are to let her know that you don't want to be her boyfriend and that you value her friendship and won't cut off the friendship after you have sex. You offer her non judgmental acceptance as she is and show her she can trust you to be discrete.

fishtastico

I can see legions of guys trying this and getting kicked in the 'nads

Scanlas The 2nd

fishtastico wrote: »

I can see legions of guys trying this and getting kicked in the 'nads

Well probably as I could see men misinterpreting it. If your honest and go about it confidently I think their nads will be fine.

fishtastico

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

Well probably as I could see men misinterpreting it. If your honest and go about it confidently I think their nads will be fine.

This may well be the case, depending on how the friends' attitudes are... But I can see things going very wrong. I know a few people who would try this, and I'm pretty sure it wouldn't end well with any of our female friends if certain people asked...

That said, if there's a mutual interest then it could be great

Scanlas The 2nd

fishtastico wrote: »

This may well be the case, depending on how the friends' attitudes are... But I can see things going very wrong. I know a few people who would try this, and I'm pretty sure it wouldn't end well with any of our female friends if certain people asked...

That said, if there's a mutual interest then it could be great

If a girl got angry or upset in any way for suggesting it I would respond with something like " Listen, I think you are a great friend, I value are friendship, I think you are sexy but I know I don't want to be your boyfriend as we wouldn't be a good match, if you don't want a sexual side to our friendship thats fine, but Im a man who loves sex and thinks your sexy so it made sense to ask you, I don't regret that. I value our frienship more than the sex and would prefer not to lose that.

opinion guy

You lost me at

random pua website wrote:

Personal Development for Smart PeopleTM Forums

AHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAAHAH

fishtastico

I know fortune favours the bold and all that, but you'd need to be pretty sure there was:

1. Mutual attraction
2. The desire for no-strings sex
3. Neither one of you wanting a relationship with the other person.

Otherwise it sounds like it'd be dodgy... I'd just be interested to hear what a person of the female persuasion has to say about it. Not saying it won't work, just that saying "I think you're very sexy and want to ride you" out of nowhere might not work for some, otherwise the pervy old guys at pubs/clubs would be getting a lot more action

Scanlas The 2nd

If she isn't attracted or simply would never want to have sex with you then thats fine, you just offer her something that she can take if she so wishes, and you let her know that she can go on looking for Mr Right in the meantime as you too will be out meeting other women. You let her know that you won't get possesive, act jealous or finish the frienship. If you think you would act in those ways then its not an arrangement you should offer to her.

fishtastico

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

If she isn't attracted or simply would never want to have sex with you then thats fine, you just offer her something that she can take if she so wishes, and you let her know that she can go on looking for Mr Right in the meantime as you too will be out meeting other women. You let her know that you won't get possesive, act jealous or finish the frienship. If you think you would act in those ways then its not an arrangement you should offer to her.

Well, that's me convinced

Giselle

Any male friends of mine would be fools to try that out on me, and expect me to be friends as if nothing had happened afterwards.

Saying the disclaimer part means nothing. I'll turn you down and the friendship will never recover because I'll always worry you're checking me out in a very non-friend way from there on ever, and the easy cameraderie will be lost.

Forever.

Scanlas, that stuff only works on the internet.

fishtastico

Seems to me like it'd go something like this:

http://www.generalhilarity.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/belive-me.jpg

Scanlas The 2nd

Giselle wrote: »

Any male friends of mine would be fools to try that out on me, and expect me to be friends as if nothing had happened afterwards.

Saying the disclaimer part means nothing. I'll turn you down and the friendship will never recover because I'll always worry you're checking me out in a very non-friend way from there on ever, and the easy cameraderie will be lost.

Forever.

Scanlas, that stuff only works on the internet.

Well in the situation I described I already told her I find her sexy, so the women won't be worrying that I might see her in a sexy way because I told her explicitly that I think she is sexy. If she explains that she somehow feels worried that I find her sexy, I would reply with " Yes I find you sexy, but there are millions of sexy women everywhere, I see countless sexy women in my day to day life,I don't need to pursue you sexually, women are everywhere. It's fine either way whether we have a sexual relationship or not. Sexy women are everywhere. We're both grown adults here and I think we are mature enough to continue our frienship regardless if I view you as sexy or not. If we can't thats a shame and I wish you the best.

force majeure

Is this the infamous F*** buddy thing if so its silly and immature something I would not like myself [I'm a guy] as quiet how your supposed to feel passion and enthrallment with some one special if you have being knocking about all along with little or no heart.

opinion guy

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

Well in the situation I described I already told her I find her sexy, so the women won't be worrying that I might see her in a sexy way because I told her explicitly that I think she is sexy. If she explains that she somehow feels worried that I find her sexy, I would reply with " Yes I find you sexy, but there are millions of sexy women everywhere, I see countless sexy women in my day to day life,I don't need to pursue you sexually, women are everywhere. It's fine either way whether we have a sexual relationship or not. Sexy women are everywhere. We're both grown adults here and I think we are mature enough to continue our frienship regardless if I view you as sexy or not. If we can't thats a shame and I wish you the best.

So scanlas, let me ask you - have you actually tried this out yourself? Did it work for you ? Have you delivered these lines yourself and what was the reaction ?

Giselle

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

Well in the situation I described I already told her I find her sexy, so the women won't be worrying that I might see her in a sexy way because I told her explicitly that I think she is sexy. If she explains that she somehow feels worried that I find her sexy, I would reply with " Yes I find you sexy, but there are millions of sexy women everywhere, I see countless sexy women in my day to day life,I don't need to pursue you sexually, women are everywhere. It's fine either way whether we have a sexual relationship or not. Sexy women are everywhere. We're both grown adults here and I think we are mature enough to continue our frienship regardless if I view you as sexy or not. If we can't thats a shame and I wish you the best.

If anyone of my friends said that to me, I'd pee myself laughing.

Scanlas The 2nd

opinion guy wrote: »

So scanlas, let me ask you - have you actually tried this out yourself? Did it work for you ? Have you delivered these lines yourself and what was the reaction ?

No I haven't it tried it myself. You have to remember its not just lines. If you really don't mean what you are saying its probably not something you should offer her.

opinion guy

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

No I haven't it tried it myself. You have to remember its not just lines. If you really don't mean what you are saying its probably not something you should offer her.

Fair enough. But why are you peddlign this stuff if you haven't tried it. You looking for someone else to try it out and tell you how they get on ?

fishtastico

opinion guy wrote: »

Fair enough. But why are you peddlign this stuff if you haven't tried it. You looking for someone else to try it out and tell you how they get on ?

I think he genuinely thinks he's stumbled onto a goldmine, and is trying to help us out

PK2008

You see the problem here is the view that women's minds are to be conquered through well thought out, pre defined, emotional strategies.

Im not saying these strategies dont work but I would question the long term merit.

The premise here is that through the use of behavioural analysis a man can become the master of the emotional domain and act in calculated ways which will elicit pre-determined reactions from women and therefore increase his sexual desirability.

This is then backed up by the idea that sexual prowess and self confidence are a self-feeding cycle for the male pysche. The more you get of one the more you get of the other.

This reduces women/sex to nothing more than a reward for successful strategy- which is pure objectification. I have no problem with casual sex but this is not the same- this is sex as behaviour validation.

Im not talking about morals, I have no interest in that arena but I really do think this type of PUA behaviour masquerades as self help but actually creates a mindest which disconnects men from women on a human level. I have no doubt you will get more sex but as long as you measure your relationship success on the amount of sex you can have the more, I fear, you will move further away from connecting with a woman (another human being) on a deep emotional level.

Dr Galen

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

not something you should offer her.

this sort of language is my problem with all this PUA nonsense in a nutshell. nothing but a money making sham imho

opinion guy

PK2008 wrote: »

I have no doubt you will get more sex

Actually i doubt that alot

Scanlas The 2nd

PK2008 wrote: »

You see the problem here is the view that women's minds are to be conquered through well thought out, pre defined, emotional strategies.

Im not saying these strategies dont work but I would question the long term merit.

The premise here is that through the use of behavioural analysis a man can become the master of the emotional domain and act in calculated ways which will elicit pre-determined reactions from women and therefore increase his sexual desirability.

This is then backed up by the idea that sexual prowess and self confidence are a self-feeding cycle for the male pysche. The more you get of one the more you get of the other.

This reduces women/sex to nothing more than a reward for successful strategy- which is pure objectification. I have no problem with casual sex but this is not the same- this is sex as behaviour validation.

Im not talking about morals, I have no interest in that arena but I really do think this type of PUA behaviour masquerades as self help but actually creates a mindest which disconnects men from women on a human level. I have no doubt you will get more sex but as long as you measure your relationship success on the amount of sex you can have the more, I fear, you will move further away from connecting with a woman (another human being) on a deep emotional level.

You're jumping to conclusions here and basing your reasoning off of those conclusions.

No one said anything about what makes up relationship success. Sometimes sex is just enjoyable to have. It's ironic you describe this as PUA behavour. It isn't PUA. The author of the post is quite outspoken against most PUA behavour. When you can non judgmentally accept another human being it creates a strong connection, not a diconnection.

There isn't really much strategy to this at all. You are basically being open, honest, non judgmental and discrete. I wouldn't describe that as calculating.

There was nothing in my initial post confidence or how it is linked to sexual prowess. I don't know why you are bringing those topics up. Im actually a fan of core confidence as opposed to situational confidence you are describing. But thats another topic.

trout

opinion guy wrote: »

Fair enough. But why are you peddlign this stuff if you haven't tried it. You looking for someone else to try it out and tell you how they get on ?

Fair question ... I'd like to hear the answer too.

southsiderosie

I wasn't able to finish the article after I hit this gem:

Try saying something like this to her: "You know I would NEVER fcuk-you-over; ...But I'd gladly fcuk you over-and-over!"
(I have used this line for a decade with fantastic success - it's light and cute and funny and reassuring all at once)

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Giselle

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

Im actually a fan of core confidence as opposed to situational confidence you are describing. But thats another topic.

Any man with core confidence won't be using a script to try score his female friends.

fishtastico

southsiderosie wrote: »

I wasn't able to finish the article after I hit this gem:



BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm sure most women would feel reassured hearing this from a close male friend

Rented Mule

If you're going to make the offer to a close female friend, make sure you load up on the Sex Panther by Odeon.

PK2008

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

You're jumping to conclusions here and basing your reasoning off of those conclusions.



No one said anything about what makes up relationship success. Sometimes sex is just enjoyable to have. It's ironic you describe this as PUA behavour. It isn't PUA. The author of the post is quite outspoken against most PUA behavour. When you can non judgmentally accept another human being it creates a strong connection, not a diconnection.



There isn't really much strategy to this at all. You are basically being open, honest, non judgmental and discrete. I wouldn't describe that as calculating.



There was nothing in my initial post confidence or how it is linked to sexual prowess. I don't know why you are bringing those topics up. Im actually a fan of core confidence as opposed to situational confidence you are describing. But thats another topic.

Im not talking about relationship success either, Im questioning the idea that it would indeed be 'convenient to have sex with your female friends'.

I beleive this is inspired by a kind of fantasy where women are disposable/replaceable objects of gratification and that both the male and female emotions involved can be easily mitigated, controlled and nullified- which I believe to be naive.

Immediately your argument assumes that 1) If men thought it was 'acheivable' they would have sex with their female friends and 2) the challenges to achieving this lie with what the "woman is weary about" and 3) the emotional consequences of such a situation in which this approach is successful are easily controlled with the correct behaviours. It then lays out rules which should be adhered to in order to realise success, core to these rules are how the man should 'behave'- this is a strategy.

Even protracted behavioural therapy has a limited success rate in terms of 'reprogramming' an individual and in the cases where it does work it is often accompanied by personal emotional breakthroughs. What I am saying is that even if a man wants to behave in a certain way for the appearance of a woman (in order to have sex with her) it will not address whatever emotional issues are underlying.

Sex is great, casual sex is great, relationship sex is great- I have no issue, moral or other, with anyone having sex, but the complexities of human relationships (friendly, sexual and/or combined) are largley ignored here in the pursuit of sex- and it is this that I feel is the core problem.

I hope you have sex with all the females you desire and I wish you 'success' in that but what I am trying to say is that sexual liberation does not lie in the ability to have as much sex as you want, when you want and with whom you want but rather it lies in the ability to remove the influence it has over an inordinate proportion of your daily efforts, actions and thoughts- particularly your intellectual and emotional development/exploration.

Daftendirekt

This really doesn't make sense.

If you had a female friend who wanted to have sex with you in the first place, then surely you wouldn't need to explicitly make some sort of deal with her?

The author conveniently ignores this by saying 'you're offering her something,' but in reality, you're only offering her something if she feels like you're offering her something. In which case, you shouldn't need to offer her anything.

Unless you happen to know some women who just like having indiscriminate sex with people they aren't even interested in or attracted to. If only life was that easy! :pac:

Giselle

Rented Mule wrote: »

If you're going to make the offer to a close female friend, make sure you load up on the Sex Panther by Odeon.

I think ts illegal in Ireland, and eight other countries.;)

Wibbs

Yep. Ive slept with a couple of women mates. Most I didnt and were/are just mates. So? If it happened it happened. No harm no foul. So much better with someone who you get on with. But good god it didnt happen as the OP described and a couple were WTF was I thinking .

Jebus any woman who would fall for that guff would be written off the potential mates list on the spot on general principle, never mind the "oh lets roll in the hay for the sake of it" list. Seriously. No way.

And it is standard PUA material. PUA 101. After this stuff became the mode du jour(and we saw this a fair bit here on Boards), one couldnt help but check it out and see whats what. See what value lay within. What I found was interesting, but the interesting was pretty obvious and minimal. Then the obvious stuff was added to and became some self perpetuating pseudo intellectual self abuse fitted up as a theory. And a sales pitch for the insular and insecure linear seeker looking for a "process". Rinse and repeat. There's one born every minute.

This example? "Women(tm) have a secret society(tm). They want sex as much as men. Act like one of this secret society (tm) Plug into this secret society(tm)(instructions(tm) for a "small" fee(tm)) and you too can leave the realm of the "out of state" averagely frustrated chump(tm)* and get laid.

Its like Amway for nerdy wallflowers. Given one of the biggest hounds I know is a nerdy wallflower its not exactly hitting it's aims.

I actually met one of these PUA's over the recent xmas. A well known one in these islands. Had his own tapes out there. A British lad. A few drinks in and the stuff he was coming out with. Not so much about the PUA stuff itself, but how well PUA sells. How much moola he was getting from worried men at 600 quid a pop at weekend seminars. Enough said. And it made me angry TBH. Very.





*That's an actual phrase these eejits use. I kid thee not dear reader.

Wibbs

BTW the same aforementioned "PUA" guy* said that build this idea right and you will have willing advertisers of the PUA service. Guys who after getting into this mindset will seek to pass on this "secret" knowledge and get more interested in it. Cue more revenue.

Is all of this BS? Nope. Just enough is true(and obvious) to make it seem all true. Frankly as far as my own gender are concerned, we should avoid this guff like the plague. Not for the misogyny bits, which are bad enough, but if you want to put your faith in something "to get laid", this is not it. Its more misandry than misogyny than anything else IMHO.

You can tell I have a bee in my bonnet about these predators :D



* he tried his moves on a few women in the two hours I was talking to him and farcical wasnt in it. The only lesson he demonstrated? Dont give up. But even there... :rolleyes:

fishtastico

Wibbs wrote: »

BTW the same aforementioned "PUA" guy* said that build this idea right and you will have willing advertisers of the PUA service. Guys who after getting into this mindset will seek to pass on this "secret" knowledge and get more interested in it. Cue more revenue.

Is all of this BS? Nope. Just enough is true(and obvious) to make it seem all true. Frankly as far as my own gender are concerned, we should avoid this guff like the plague. Not for the misogyny bits, which are bad enough, but if you want to put your faith in something "to get laid", this is not it. Its more misandry than misogyny than anything else IMHO.

You can tell I have a bee in my bonnet about these predators :D



* he tried his moves on a few women in the two hours I was talking to him and farcical wasnt in it. The only lesson he demonstrated? Dont give up. But even there... :rolleyes:

Sounds pretty sad, to be THAT preoccupied with sex that you put so much effort into it. The guy's a genius for conning people though

Herbal Deity

I think there's genuinely sound advice buried beneath the bs you see the vast majority of those PUA guys peddling. But there's a lot of exploitation and scams going on there...

Also, why are so many PUA articles written like this?

PK2008

Indeed the victims with the most to lose in this are the men themselves- often these are young men coming to terms with the world, women, love and their own sexual desires. A hugely confusing journey for everyone- this tries to sell an easy answer to vulnerable men (sometimes men who have had bad relationships and are suffering from low self esteem).

On the face of it alot of what they say seems logical and positive but it creates a reward system based on achieving sex - no matter how much sex a person has it will never be enough and at some point we naturally seek something with more meaning. We alwys do- in our careers, in our friends, in our family in our partners, in our beliefs and in the world around us- we are intellectual beings. The danger is that by that stage the behaviours have become so ingrained and the view of women so distorted that deeper relationships will be even harder if not impossible to achieve resulting in stunted personal development.

barochoc

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

Wouldn't it be convenient if you could have sex with your attractive female friends. It makes sense, you both have sexual needs and could help each other out without having a relationship exclusively. But its not quite as simple as that there are problems that a woman is weary about. But if you address these problems you'll dramatically increase your chances of getting sexual with your female friends.

I'm sorry, not sure if I'm on the same planet.

Did nobody in here ever hear of a Fook Buddy?????

More & more popular in groups of friends every day.

D.R cowboy

The story of my life right here well done O.P

I have done it to my friends and their friends but whatever dudes it is all cool once no one gets pregnant or an STD

The only reason girls have guy friends in the first places is because their is a sexual attraction there between both parties so why not just give it socks while we all still can right!

fishtastico

D.R cowboy wrote: »

The only reason girls have guy friends in the first places is because their is a sexual attraction there between both parties so why not just give it socks while we all still can right!

Good for you and all, but I just don't agree with you here. That's the kind of thing people say to justify themselves. If you're attracted to your friends, and sleep with them, that's fine. But I can't believe that people of the opposite sex HAVE to be attracted to each other to be friends.

My only issue with the OP's original post was that it sounded like it'd never work

mikom

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

The post below articulates it in better detail.

http://www.stevepavlina.com/forums/social-relationships/27425-converting-girl-friends-into-girlfriends.html

*Looks at linked article* * Spots Comic sans* *Shakes head*

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

If a girl got angry or upset in any way for suggesting it I would respond with something like " Listen, I think you are a great friend, I value are friendship, I think you are sexy but I know I don't want to be your boyfriend as we wouldn't be a good match, if you don't want a sexual side to our friendship thats fine, but Im a man who loves sex and thinks your sexy so it made sense to ask you, I don't regret that. I value our frienship more than the sex and would prefer not to lose that.

No you wouldn't........ you'd shit your pants is what you'd do.

CDfm

Its FB's dressed up a bit.

Every week or so you see it on PI so at some level if you ask enough of your friends you just might strike it lucky or you might run out of friends.

Boston

A friendship can survive mutual attraction. Either you both decide to get it on or you both decide not to. A one sided attraction is a friendship killer the minute it's out in the open.

As an aside (or perhaps the main topic) Women view sex vastly differently to how men view it. I'm not talking about the usual bull about men being un emotional while women are bags of feelings, just that even when you're both in the same mindset, the way things present themselves is often very different, leading to problems.

Tristram

What the f00k is s PUA and what in the hell if core confidence versus situational confidence about? I must be living under a rock!

Nevyn

Pick Up Artists, it's an American fad/business, think Tom Cruises arsehole character in Magnolia.

Wibbs

Herbal Deity wrote: »

I think there's genuinely sound advice buried beneath the bs you see the vast majority of those PUA guys peddling.

I would say 90% of the sound advice boils down to approach and talk to women. It's mostly a numbers game. Of course getting to the point where youve no problem going up to any woman and just chatting shows confidence, A very attractive feature.

Also, why are so many PUA articles written like this?

Only found this out recently(Tnx T). Apparently its done to to increase hits in search engines.

Novella

Bahahahahahahaha!!!! "I know we're friends but I think you're sexy so if you want to have sex, that'd be cool, and I'll still be your friend after"? Jesus, that's hilarious. If one of my guy friends had said that to me when we were sixteen, I would have laughed and thought, "Awh, bless!". A grown man, oh, words can't express how funny I'd find that.

CDfm

Novella wrote: »

"Awh, bless!". A grown man, oh, words can't express how funny I'd find that.

It might go something like this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-N_jlF-sRqk

Nevyn

Wibbs wrote: »

I would say 90% of the sound advice boils down to approach and talk to women. It's mostly a numbers game. Of course getting to the point where youve no problem going up to any woman and just chatting shows confidence, A very attractive feature.
Only found this out recently(Tnx T). Apparently its done to to increase hits in search engines.

I don't have a problem with people gaining confidence to go chat other people up, hell I think more women should try and chat up men tbh; I do have a problem with the the extent women are objectified and the techniques which are designed to knock a persons confidence and make them feel bad about themselves in an effort to get them to lower their standards, really the how to make the woman of your dreams ( or any woman in your life) into your sperm receptacle claptrap does nothing for either gender.

SugarHigh

I think it's clear this guy has social problems and it's pretty ****ed up that most people in this thread are taking the piss out of him for cheap laughs.

So much for not being "AH lite".

Wibbs

How did you figure that? Most here are saying this stuff is daft, dont put much faith in it, or get too caught up in it. That's pretty good advice IMHO. It's also why this PUA industry písses me off so much it's targeting vulnerable men.

Icky Thump

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Nevyn

SugarHigh wrote: »

I think it's clear this guy has social problems and it's pretty ****ed up that most people in this thread are taking the piss out of him for cheap laughs.

So much for not being "AH lite".

Which guy? the guy who started the thread?

He has soapboxed on this topic so many times in PI/RI that wibbs and I did our research into it and got sick of it being promoted as a cure all.