How do you really feel about religions* athiest minded responses only please *

Tigger

hi

i see that in the christianity forum you can do this so i'd like to do it here
if we can just discuss as athiests what we really think

for example christianity and me:
i like the ideal of jesus of turning the other cheek and many of the practices but i don't like the fact that very little of this is practiced and that the ruyles only seem to ever apply to others

i also worry about how easily these educated and intelligent people believe in a myth form 2k years ago that is from another culture when they don't believe in , for example , the ulster cycle.

it scares me the influence and power that christianity can have in christian countries.

ChocolateSauce

I don't like them. I find they are at best silly and at worst dangerous. They can turn otherwise ethical and rational humans into psychopathic morons and with the arguable exception of money and greed, they're the biggest source of "evil" the world has ever seen.

That's it in a nutshell really, not sure what else I could say without blathering on.

How I feel about religious people is a different matter. As DF says below, I'd like to live-and-let-live with them, but I find a saddeningly large proportion of them don't feel the same way, and aren't happy to let me live the way I would like to, and will instead use every means at their disposal to prevent people from living in manners they don't approve of.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Fighting Irish

Religions are for weak people

Dades

And some strong people too - for reasons best known only to them.

Tigger

Dades wrote: »

And some strong people too - for reasons best known only to them.

do you mean what i think you mean but can't say it cos dades will pm you

Ickle Magoo

I find religion completely & absolutely bonkers. I cannot begin to fathom why anyone would even consider leading their entire life, base decisions and behaviours around something they don't even know exists. To hear something speaking to you or claim that whatever created the universe cares if people have sex before marriage or are gay or whatever, I see absolutely no logic in it whatsoever. More to the point, I see nothing in religion worth having that can't be had from a secular life without all the archaic rules and regulations - so really, I don't see a point to religion.

That said, if religion doesn't impinge on me & mine I have no issue with folks being religious. Unfortunately, as a group theists seem to have no self restraint when it comes to public proselytising and can't seem to help demanding a pivotal role in dictating how others behave based on whatever conclusions they deem their god, that they don't actually know exists, wants for the world - including those who don't believe in that god, or indeed, believe in another one altogether. Baffling.

Bottle_of_Smoke

I think there's something in humans to be prone to believing in them, or at least think they believe in them.

I think a lot don't actually believe them. Otherwise they'd research them meticulously and adhere to the rules. The implications of being in hell are well known and if people really believed they'd stop sinning. What keeps them professing in a belief is the link between culture and identity

In primary school I was taught religion as fact but looking back I don't think I properly believed. When I was around 10 our teacher told us she was going to the birthplace of Jesus over the summer. Remember being shocked the place actually existed on earth

Unfortunately I can't remember if I was surprised religion was real or just thought the bible stories happened in heaven or somewhere other than earth.

I think what I dislike about them the most is a common claim that religion is required for morality. Its so illogical. There's hundreds of religions which all have very very similar rules on morality, do religious people see this as a coincidence or just not think about it?

Beeker

In general I have no problem with religion so long as those who believe in it do not try and force their beliefs on others. I do not want my society destroyed by Christian or other belief systems, values. Examples being divorce, contraception, abortion, rules on Sunday openings even pub hours on "Good Friday".
These decisions should be based on civic reasons and not religious. Primary schools being run by churches should be stopped. I should say most primary schools. If churches want to run a school then it should be private and not a state school. Parents should have a choice. At the moment almost all primary schools in this country are run by the Catholic Church, as a parent and an atheist I had no choice but to send my daughter to a catholic run school. This needs to change.

I know religion brings comfort to many people but to me I would rather know the truth about the universe then believe in a fantasy no matter how comforting it may be.

Canis Lupus

Religion boggles my mind. I know a couple of really intelligent and nice people that are firm believers and I'm never able to grasp how these people seem so normal but then have a facebook update that says something like 'The lord is my keeper and provides for me in everyway' (incidentally they couldn't answer when I asked if he could put the rubbish out on collection day).
I'm not taking a personal stab at him but Stephentlig talks in a way that is representative of what makes me cringe when Ihave to deal with religion.

I basically find religion embarrassing and incomprehensible that despite an individual being utterly rational in all other aspects of life they believe in some crazy off the wall stuff but look at you as if you're some kind of simpleton when you tell them it's all mumbo jumbo.

(sorry for punctuation, typing this from iPod)

mailforkev

I'm not a religious person and live a happy secular life, generally paying no attention to the teachings or preachings of any religion. To be honest I would view religion as an relic of simpler times.

In fact part of me sees a strong belief in religion as a sign that the believer is perhaps missing something in their life and needs the belief of a god or afterlife to help fill that void. Of course I can also understand that a religious person might view me and my non-belief in the same way. C'est la vie I suppose.

In common with previous posters. the main problem I have (in this country in particular) is that my choices in life are impacted by the beliefs of others. Along with my tax money being used to prop those beliefs up. I'm very much an each-to-their-own person and would never try to force my beliefs on others, a trait I find lacking in how religion generally operates.

For example, how it can be legal for any state funded school to basically filter applicants by religion appals me. Even more trivial things like the Good Friday drinking ban are disgraceful in a supposed modern democracy.

krudler

I think its one of humankinds worst creations, to keep simple minded fools in line while the church leaders line their pockets from pretence of being holy. The myriad of different churches of Christianity is also baffling, they cant even bloody agree on the written words in the book they all believe in. eg

"And the lord said do not eat bread on Thursdays, as it is a sin"

If this was an actual bible passage, you'd get 85 different christian scholar typs debating its meaning, even though its written in plain words

"well bread is greek for cat but hebew for sausages so by that god mean dont eat meat on thursdays, but by ancient calendar reckoning thurdsays was actually sundays, even though sundays hadnt been created yet, so god actually meant dont be looking at the neighbours wife while she's out picking figs,isnt religion grand?"

Daftendirekt

I'm not a fan.

I view it the same way as I view belief in ghosts, alien abductions, good luck charms and the tooth fairy - once it doesn't impact on me, I don't care what random beliefs anyone else holds. The only difference I see is that people seem to feel more strongly about their religious beliefs (in general anyway).

Rev Hellfire

If its not rammed down my throat I'm not bothered either way.

Tigger

i was eating a steak sambo on ash wednesday and this old lady and her not so old son started giving out to me

i was acually embarrased and said it was a medical thing, which they believed

liamw

It's such a terrible and condescending thing to say, but sometimes deep down I feel a little bit sorry for the deeply religious. I know it's their choice, but I can't help but think how deluded it all is.

It used to frustrate me more, I just couldn't get my head around why such rational, critical people in other areas of their life, could believe this stuff.
After doing some research around the evolution and the propagation of the religious meme, it doesn't frustrate me as much. I'll still point to this talk as the best yet on the subject.

ChocolateSauce

Tigger wrote: »

i was eating a steak sambo on ash wednesday and this old lady and her not so old son started giving out to me

i was acually embarrased and said it was a medical thing, which they believed

Seriously? I would have just not lied and told her to mind her own business.

TheBigLebowski

ChocolateSauce wrote: »

Seriously? I would have just not lied and told her to mind her own business.

I would have been far less polite than that.

Tigger

ChocolateSauce wrote: »

Seriously? I would have just not lied and told her to mind her own business.

i'm a public figure of sorts (nothing fancy) and in the west of ireland so i chose to. i'm not a millitant athiest i don't give a dam what people believe as long as they act in a civillised manner

Tigger

TheBigLebowski wrote: »

I would have been far less polite than that.

dude (hehe) she was like 70

ChocolateSauce

Tigger wrote: »

dude (hehe) she was like 70

All the more reason to speak up so she can hear you properly!

bnt

If you're of a philosophical bent, as many of here are, we tend to talk about religion in the abstract, from the outside. I've noticed, however, that the religious tend to take such talk rather personally, so I want to tell them: if I criticise your religion, I'm not criticising you. That doesn't mean that I won't criticise things theists do, but if I do that, I'll say so. I sometimes want to go on those other forums and tell them "atheists are people too", so I'll allow the converse: theists are people too.

I think knowing some of the history of religion helps. Depending on the era and the part of the world, religions used to do all kinds of things that we now associate with governments. (Sometimes it was the government.) Hospitals in Ireland and elsewhere may be run by governments or corporations, but you can see their origins in their names. (I've been to St. Vincent's in Dublin a few times, and didn't see a single nun.)

Well, times have changed a bit, and other countries (such as France and Scotland) had what they called "The Enlightenment". Ireland didn't really have one of those - or, according to Google, there was just as much Counter-Enlightenment. :rolleyes: Despite what Prince Charlie would like us to believe, we've learned that religion really is optional, and thus all its functions can be done by non-religious organisations. That doesn't mean that all religious organisations should shut down straight away, but it does mean that they don't get to dictate life to the rest of us. That's what I think, anyhoo.

MatthewVII

The fundamental problem I have with religion is that it promotes non-questioning and blind obedience. It's a completely non-progressive and narrow-minded way of thinking which has no grounding in logic or compassion. It cannot be challenged or reasoned with and makes no sense to follow it in any way, shape or form.

And yet atheists in Ireland are the ones who get looked down on. Urk

strobe

Basically I'm a libertarian (although I don't like to put that lable on myself), I believe that no one, or no group should have any power whatsoever over anything I do, under any circumstances, unless I am hurting others with my actions (and I realise I might be in a minority feeling this way). I don't care if that someone is the state, a religion, a political movement or anything else. I believe that most of the worlds organised religions came into being or are being maintained with the sole purpose of controlling the lives of others against their will, to keep them in their place and as a direct result of that to keep the people with the power in power. It's basically anathema to my most strongly held beliefs. That and all it entails is the first problem I have with religion.

The second problem is something that comes up in a lot of what the religious people post when they post in A&A. "Science can't figure it out so God must have done it, I have nothing to suggest that but I have FAITH!". I believe that people maintaining this attitude and trying to actually impose that belief on others is not just extremely childish and short sighted, but that it is holding up the progress of all mankind. If it wasn't for people completely and totally dismissing this way of thinking and searching for other answers rather than excepting blindly the presumption that "God did it so obviously we will never be able to figure it out" we would still be sacrificing children so that the great eye of fire in the sky came back every morning. We would not be here using these computers and we most probably would not be here at all.

"God did it" explains nothing. "God did it" contributes nothing to anyone. "God did it" is the one way of thinking that has had to be continually dismissed in order for our species to make the progress and gain the understanding that we so painstakingly have. You want to think like that? Fine, but keep it to yourself and certainly don't try to indoctrinate others to think that way.

krudler

Man gets squished by a truck crossing the road, ambulance roars up, paramedics save his life, the religous answer? "god was watching over him"

Man gets squished by a truck crossing the road, ambulance roars up, paramedics try to save his life but fail as his injuries are too severe, the religious answer? "god wanted him in heaven"

either answer is bullsh1t reasoning whichever way you look at it

Dr. Loon

Tigger wrote: »

i was eating a steak sambo on ash wednesday and this old lady and her not so old son started giving out to me

i was acually embarrased and said it was a medical thing, which they believed

I would have told them to fúck off. No qualms about it. It's this sort of silly **** that pisses me off about religion. The little things. That they think they have some sort of say in what you can eat? They can **** themselves.

Then I think about the big things, and that's when I get scared. Lunatics. It has no place in modern society.

Tigger

Mr. Loon wrote: »

I would have told them to fúck off. No qualms about it. It's this sort of silly **** that pisses me off about religion. The little things. That they think they have some sort of say in what you can eat? They can **** themselves.

Then I think about the big things, and that's when I get scared. Lunatics. It has no place in modern society.

you have told a nice yet misled old lady to fuck off?


naw save that for the ones that start going to mass so they can get married in a church but don't believe or live the doctrin, or the ones that think its important that ireland retains its right to discriminate against teschers based on thier religion or lack of.

seamus

When I hear people talk seriously about fantastical concepts such as in interventionist God, heaven, hell, Satan, ressurection, "special powers", 72 virgins, and all the other stuff that goes along with it, I die a little inside.

I smile at the fantastic innovations that we've made as a species between science and human rights, particularly in the last 100 years, and it gives me hope. But then I hear people talk about religious concepts as if they were established and accepted facts and I weep for humanity's ignorance, because we're a lot further away from enlightenment than I would like.

The mere mention of creation as if there is *any* truth in it whatsoever makes me want to grab the person and shake the ignorance and idiocy out of them.

"Critical thinking" should be a mandatory subject from 1st class on where children are taught to argue against themselves and analyse what it is they believe in. We've spent years telling children to shut up and not question your elders, but why? Children should be taught to ask "Why", all the time, no matter what it is they're dealing with.

Truley

In recent years i've come to the conclusion that religion is not what is making the world a bad place, it's people that make the world a bad place. If the whole concept of religion ceased to exist tomorrow, do I think the world would be a better place? No. I think it would be different, no better, no worse.

The Pope could stand up tomorrow and say, 'hey you know what the catholic church is Ok with homosexuality/contraception/women now.' Will it lead, for example, to a reduction in homophobia? I doubt it. In fact I would imagine the church would face alot of criticism from its followers for changing its ideologies from something that a large majority of it's followers subscribe to.

I never bought the whole catholic thing because I didn't believe in many of the rules. I'm sure most people subscribe to it beause the rules suit them. For example the BNP don't go around making people racist, but people who are racist anyway join up because it makes sense to them and gives them a feeling of unity.

seamus

Truley wrote: »

I'm sure most people subscribe to it beause the rules suit them. For example the BNP don't go around making people racist, but people who are racist anyway join up because it makes sense to them and gives them a feeling of unity.

While I agree with you to an extent, conditioning of children is the big problem.

Children often aren't given a choice in what to believe. They are told what's wrong or right by their parents and run with that for the rest of their lives because they don't know or don't understand how to think any differently. This can be seen across the world, from the young children involved with BNP, to white supremacists in Alabama, to Muslim children in Africa treating women with contempt. It can even be seen here in Ireland with Anto from Tallaght who hates the English, votes Sinn Féin and supports terrorism in NI because of "800 years of oppression".

The problem isn't so much that religion adapts to suit people it's the children are condition to accept religion and consequently become adults who defend religion.

iUseVi

Truley wrote: »

In recent years i've come to the conclusion that religion is not what is making the world a bad place, it's people that make the world a bad place. If the whole concept of religion ceased to exist tomorrow, do I think the world would be a better place? No. I think it would be different, no better, no worse.

The Pope could stand up tomorrow and say, 'hey you know what the catholic church is Ok with homosexuality/contraception/women now.' Will it lead, for example, to a reduction in homophobia? I doubt it. In fact I would imagine the church would face alot of criticism from its followers for changing its ideologies from something that a large majority of it's followers subscribe to.

I never bought the whole catholic thing because I didn't believe in many of the rules. I'm sure most people subscribe to it beause the rules suit them. For example the BNP don't go around making people racist, but people who are racist anyway join up because it makes sense to them and gives them a feeling of unity.

All true, but religion is a vehicle for their homophobia/racism or whatever. It gives them an excuse. Without religion we can just say that people are being twats, they don't have anything as much to hide behind.