More trouble for Harney.

orourkeda

I'm sure you've all heard it now but theres more trouble brewing in tallaght hospital. An estimated 30,000 letters left unopened in addition to the 50000+ x-rays.

And to think it only came to light when an alert GP became concerned after a visit there.

FlutterinBantam

Don't see why Harney should take the rap.

Isn't that why the HSE was set up ?

To remove political interference with the Health System.

We are paying the top execs in the HSE out there big bucks, if heads are to roll then there's where it should happen, unless of course Harney was found to be remiss in the running of the place.

As I heard it she was told of a problem and was told that is was in hand, by the top man there.

By all means clear out people who are chronically negligant but blaming Harney is a bit premature.

LostinBlanch

More trouble for Harney? You haven't heard Nell McCafferty on Tom Dunne on Newstalk talking about the rumours going around about Harney. She went on for 20 minutes and then at the end said "what? we're live on air?" :eek:

I'm not being precious about this, but am not going to repeat them here as they are explosive and I think there is definitely going to be legal action over them.

Mind you, if they are true, it would certainly explain why Harney seems so detached and acts like she couldn't give a fiddlers about the health service in this country.

I think it will become apparent very quickly what these rumours are.

MODS: Feel free to delete this post if you feel it necessary.

Taxipete29

LostinBlanch wrote: »

More trouble for Harney? You haven't heard Nell McCafferty on Tom Dunne on Newstalk talking about the rumours going around about Harney. She went on for 20 minutes and then at the end said "what? we're live on air?" :eek:

I'm not being precious about this, but am not going to repeat them here as they are explosive and I think there is definitely going to be legal action over them.

Mind you, if they are true, it would certainly explain why Harney seems so detached and acts like she couldn't give a fiddlers about the health service in this country.

I think it will become apparent very quickly what these rumours are.

MODS: Feel free to delete this post if you feel it necessary.

You cant tease us like that

whippet

I for one can't understand why Mary Harney isn't back from NZ already and personally going through each and every one of the 50000 x-rays herself personally ... isn't that what the minister for health should be doing? why pay boards of management in hospitals, HSE etc when the tabloids want the minister herself to do the micro managment.

Its all a load of tosh, imagine the uproar if every person x-rayed had to wait in a&e until a consultant looked at the x-ray .. you'd go in with a broken wrist playing in the school yard and by the time you got out you'd be suffering with alzimers from old age.

A bit of perspective here, of the 50000 x-rays, 2 were misdiagnosed, that is about 0.00004% .... hardly a crisis worth her head?

Harney has a horrible brief, dealing with unions who are holding the country to ransom along with the doctors who managed to string along negotiations for the new contracts for years and still milking the system.

When there is a core of rotten eggs in the mix it is nearly impossible to make the batter good .... the public's solution generally is to throw money at it, this can't be the case anylonger weed out the dead wood and get back working.

Hospitals should be run by business people not doctors who have wrangled themselves to the top .... a hospital is like any other business, needs to be managed properly.

orourkeda

LostinBlanch wrote: »

More trouble for Harney? You haven't heard Nell McCafferty on Tom Dunne on Newstalk talking about the rumours going around about Harney. She went on for 20 minutes and then at the end said "what? we're live on air?" :eek:

I'm not being precious about this, but am not going to repeat them here as they are explosive and I think there is definitely going to be legal action over them.

Mind you, if they are true, it would certainly explain why Harney seems so detached and acts like she couldn't give a fiddlers about the health service in this country.

I think it will become apparent very quickly what these rumours are.

MODS: Feel free to delete this post if you feel it necessary.

Was that this morning

FlutterinBantam

Didn't hear McCafferty, but I suppose anything to get some self promotion.

I certainly wouldn't take whatever she says in any way seriously.

Taxipete29

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Didn't hear McCafferty, but I suppose anything to get some self promotion.

I certainly wouldn't take whatever she says in any way seriously.

Like her or not, she is an extremely honest person. If she has made a claim there is likely no smoke without fire.

aw

I also heard this interview.
I am not a fan of Nell McCafferty and this lowered further my opinion of her.
Very tabloidy interview today, of the worst kind.
Rumours and her opinions put forward as facts.

Tom Dunne should have cut her off at the start when she began talking about Mary Harney in that way.
He is very much at fault.

ei.sdraob

whippet wrote: »

I for one can't understand why Mary Harney isn't back from NZ already and personally going through each and every one of the 50000 x-rays herself personally ... isn't that what the minister for health should be doing? why pay boards of management in hospitals, HSE etc when the tabloids want the minister herself to do the micro managment.

Its all a load of tosh, imagine the uproar if every person x-rayed had to wait in a&e until a consultant looked at the x-ray .. you'd go in with a broken wrist playing in the school yard and by the time you got out you'd be suffering with alzimers from old age.

A bit of perspective here, of the 50000 x-rays, 2 were misdiagnosed, that is about 0.00004% .... hardly a crisis worth her head?

Harney has a horrible brief, dealing with unions who are holding the country to ransom along with the doctors who managed to string along negotiations for the new contracts for years and still milking the system.

When there is a core of rotten eggs in the mix it is nearly impossible to make the batter good .... the public's solution generally is to throw money at it, this can't be the case anylonger weed out the dead wood and get back working.

Hospitals should be run by business people not doctors who have wrangled themselves to the top .... a hospital is like any other business, needs to be managed properly.

be quiet! before the socialists/unionists hear of your idea and scream "privatization!" and "murder!" in same sentence

LostinBlanch

Tom Dunne just read out a statement distancing Newstalk from statements by Nell McCafferty and accepting that those comments are without foundation.

Taxipete29

Can someone please pm me what these accusations are?? My nose is killing me

North_West_Art

could someone PM me the accusations too please...cheers

AlekSmart

Mary Harney`s stewardship of the Department of Health has always been a fraught one.
Quite possibly her most important single act was to preside over the creation of a Buffer Position,that of HSE Chief Executive,currently Prof Brendan Drumm.

This position has been used to it`s fullest by Minister Harney as she continually deflected questions and issues to Prof.Drumm.

She chose her man carefully,and in Prof Drumm found a dogged and staunch ally who was/is prepared to stonewall to infinity for "His" Minister.

Irrespective of the greater public opinion of Ms Harney,she IS Minister for Health,holds a Seal of Office which carries with it RESPONSIBILITIES which cannot be simply side-passed to whatever Administrative functionary happens to be on duty when a particular scandal breaks.

It also needs recognition that this is but the latest of a,now considerable list of major human life-threatening issues which Ms Harney has in some ways succeeded in trivializing by her continued efforts to dissassociate herself from the entire Health Service area of responsibility.

Endlessly we hear repeated the mantra..."My expert advice"...."The best advice available to me" "That is a matter for the Chief Executive of the HSE" etc etc....This is essentially Government policy now in many ares as the principle of "Expert" advisers is now so ingrained within Irish Governmental administration that the principle of the Government itself actually requiring a working knowledge of stuff has ended.

Mary Harney also has quite a successful career as a champion of the Progressive Democrat ethos of Private Business requiring a leg-up in many areas including health.

There are some non-health areas in which she was/is particularly active,Public Transport being one of them and,to date,Government reluctance to embrace PD Public Transport policy is the ONLY one over which she threatened to resign and lead her party out of Government (When she HAD a Party that is.).

I have a strong dislike of Ms McCafferty stretching back over many decades,but,I fear in this case she has a sniff of some substantial negative stuff surrounding the Minister and,yes I suspect the next 7 days will see much more laid bare.

I would expect Harney to be history before the end of the month,leaving behind an enormous mess which will cost the State (us) far more than just subbing a few oul builder pals of the PD`s :eek:

Gone Fishin

Can I have the accusations by PM too please?

gandalf

Me too !!!!

dixierip

I heard the interview earlier. Poor old Tom didn't know what to say while allegation after allegation was spouted.
Legal minefield. Nell finished off by claiming she didn't realise they were live. We will hear more about this.

Sulmac

If there's a PM doing the rounds, I'd appreciate it if someone sent it to me too. Thanks!

Taxipete29

If someone would kindly pm me, I will gladly pass it on

Norderburse

Me too for a PM please!

Hagar

Pm for me too please.

PeakOutput

ill take a pm id love if these allegations were resign inducing for harney

whippet

AlekSmart wrote: »

It also needs recognition that this is but the latest of a,now considerable list of major human life-threatening issues which Ms Harney has in some ways succeeded in trivializing by her continued efforts to dissassociate herself from the entire Health Service area of responsibility.

So what you are saying is that someone in a hospital made choices decisions that were probably not the best and the Minister is at fault. Tell me in your line of work, if you made a balls of something would your MD resign?

And I still stand over the fact that this is totally being blown out of proportion, amazing how the whole lot surfaces during the usual Irish week of ministerial bashing over the St. Patrick's festival. It's a lot easier to say crap like where is she now, over in NZ hiding, when in fact the NZ trip was probably planned months ago and now the opposition think she should jump on a plane and be back here? for what? Do you want her to read the x-rays, mobile phones and communications allow business to be conducted from anywhere.

AlekSmart wrote: »

Endlessly we hear repeated the mantra..."My expert advice"...."The best advice available to me" "That is a matter for the Chief Executive of the HSE" etc etc....This is essentially Government policy now in many ares as the principle of "Expert" advisers is now so ingrained within Irish Governmental administration that the principle of the Government itself actually requiring a working knowledge of stuff has ended.

Do you expect any minister for health to be an absolute expert on all things medical? that is what the civil service are paid for, these experts probably have been in situ from previous governments including the last FG lead administration. And unfortunatly the strangle hold the unions have on the country means that these civil servants can't be replaced or moved on. We are in effect stuck with them

AlekSmart wrote: »

Mary Harney also has quite a successful career as a champion of the Progressive Democrat ethos of Private Business requiring a leg-up in many areas including health.

What would your problem be with that? Private business could provide a service that could take some of the strain off the bloated public sector and would probably be more efficient, leading to a realization of how bad the historically ineffective system is ... maybe forcing a change for the better.

But there are vested interests who really don't want this to be shown up.

AlekSmart wrote: »

I have a strong dislike of Ms McCafferty stretching back over many decades,but,I fear in this case she has a sniff of some substantial negative stuff surrounding the Minister and,yes I suspect the next 7 days will see much more laid bare.

McCafferty is just an Eamon Dunphy in drag, a virus waiting for an epidemic .... she shouldn't be given any airtime.

partyguinness

What I find baffling is that when somebody ****s up in a hospital the immediate reaction is to blame the Minister for Health. Now, I am not a supporter of Mary Harney or the old PDs before anyone suggests otherwise.

Mary Harney does not run the hospital. There are plenty of people being paid a hell of a lot of money to do that job.

Some middle managment pen pushers are clearly not doing their jobs but yet that's Mary Harney's fault? She is not involved in the day to day running of any hospital.

The problem here is that we have an inefficient, incompetent and bloated managment structure within the HSE who clearly cannot or will not do their jobs. Then they hide behind the Minister. She is not a babysitter.

thecretinhop

i think i know what this is about, but did not hear it, someone pm me also on outline of what was said i might be able to join a few dots

pampootie

could someone pm it to me also please?

Dancor

I would be very greatfull for a pm too.

North_West_Art

69 wrote: »

Pm for me too please.

here it is in chinese
酒客

PeakOutput

its everyone in the lines fault

its harneys responsibility to manage the heads in the hse and when they **** up it reflects on her

failsafes should be in place that stop crazy things like this happening and its managements fault that they arent

PeakOutput

haha i just got a pm but im pretty sure thats not what was said arrgggh i dont know what to believe

lynski

sorry but why the pms?
surely with the proper disclaimers* a publicly stated opinion can be repeated?



- nell mccafferty said and it is her opinion only, not mine, or boards.ie or anyone else -

Biggins

There is a lot the public don't know about our TD's.
However when something is effecting their ability to do their job full-time, thats when it sould be tackled - otherwise, private problems should stay private.

Sulmac

Biggins wrote: »

There is a lot the public don't know about our TD's.
However when something is effecting their ability to do their job, thats when it sould be tackled - otherwise, private problems should stay private.

To be fair if these allegations are true, it is quite clear they would affect her ability to do her job.

North_West_Art

its talked about here
http://www.munsterfans.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=24395&TPN=1

partyguinness

I think I have the a grasp general allegations made...

Biggins

Sulmac wrote: »

To be fair if these allegations are true, it is quite clear they would affect her ability to do her job.

O' I agree and I can say that I've heard a number of totally separate (exact amazingly) supposed versions of something from two separate Dublin journalists while fighting a current Crumlin Hospital campaign for my daughter and others.

If true and a person can't do their mandate fully, they should not be in such a high position.
The effects of them being there - or not! - would be disaster for the country.

Hagar

Can somebody tell me how bad do things have to get before she will be sacked or forced to resign?
What else can go wrong?

problemchimp

ah Jaysus lads, will someone tell about these rumours before I crack up. I don't have a clue. please p.m. me.

jank

Now I didn't hear the interview but I have heard rumors of Harney being a bit of an alcoholic is not new at all. Heard this about 2 years ago from my Mam of all people. Its quite well known in some circles.

partyguinness

To the people who say she cant do her job if the allegations are true....

Have you the same attitude about Brian Lenihan and his cancer treatment?

gandalf

Someone on Politics.ie let it slip!

http://www.politics.ie/fianna-fail/125519-harney-finished-4.html#post2515298

jank

On Harney herself, well all 3 broadsheets have called for her to resign or cowen to sack her. Gilmore is on about a motion of no confidence next week if cowen doesnt sack her. She might be gone now!

Now she has been in there long enough to sort out the mess of the HSE and these untouchable senior execs in the HSE. Now nobody is expecting her to be in tallaght going through letters and x rays but what people do expect her to do is set out a foundation of a proper health service so that these things shouldnt happen in the first place. People lives are at stack!! She has been in the job over 5 years and the place is still a mess.

jank

Oh and many a FF backbencher are very unhappy with her so when the motion of confidence comes up will they support her or not. Its all well and good say you are not happy with her performance on the radio but you have to walk the walk in the dail... another one bites the dust, christ falling like flies they are!

Biggins

There is a lot I can say but can't at the same time.

I can say this - when there was a full two day debate on the funding of Crumlin hospital last year in the Dail, she was not in attendance for most of it, she was elsewhere though in the building.
How do I know? I and others from Crumlin was there and went looking for her - and found her!
See this post news report that I wrote for a newspaper: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=60857305&postcount=413

She was in the building but not in the Dail room for the debate.

North_West_Art

+1

the issues surrounding the Crumlin childrens hospital debacle should have been enough, on its own, to bring down this government....
but when ALL the other scandals and blunders are taken into account, prison scentences should be administered.

jank

Actually this is pretty serious if you think about it. If these rumors are true then surely the government knew about it why was she left in the office as minister of health. Like these rumors have been going around for years and if they were effecting her job then surely she should have got the sack. I would if I was turning up drunk or going off to get langers at lunch break. This of all things could bring down the government never mind the greens play at this, this might be the excuse for the greens to pull the plug.

Hagar

partyguinness wrote: »

To the people who say she cant do her job if the allegations are true....

Have you the same attitude about Brian Lenihan and his cancer treatment?

No, cancer is an illness totally outside the man's control.
Mind you if it was liver failure X2 like his aulfella my answer would be different.

DrumSteve

tbh if i was in charge of the health department then I'd need a.... actually can i say that?

Biggins

As some of the regular posters here will note, I have been asking on this forum for some time now "Where is she?" and mentioning that she keeps disappearing off the scene.

Ever wonder why I have been asking?

peasant

This could be the straw that finally breaks the governements back

gandalf

Well if these rumours are true and given the complete an utter shambles the whole Health Service is the woman should be fired immediately. This had to have been known to those in the Government and to allow someone with an illness like this continue in a vital portfolio like Health is incompetence and stupidity of the highest order.

Biggins thanks for the link to that post I must have missed it the first time around but it has made me very angry and frustrated at the amount of misery this government is meeting out on its citizens with the bad management and decision making that is symptomatic of their governance.