Rent allowence Refusal because of jobseekers allowence!

mufcboy1999

hows things everyone..

just looking for some help regarding my rent allowence refusal.

im a 21 year old male living in a 1 bedroom apartment for the last 2 months in the waterford area.

after selling my car and paying the deposit of 468 per month and 1 months rent 468 per month in advance together costing me 936 euro!! aswell as paying for febuary's rent myself another 468 euro bringing it to 1404 euro, my community welfare officer told me im not entitled to this back, i taught i was and said fair enough, i taught as long as i get the rent allowence il be happy.

just to add i tried to apply for rent allowence before moving into an apartment but was told id have to find a place and move in first!

i have just over a 1000 euro left from the sale of my car so lets just say I have 2 months rent left. Im in need of housing and have been accepted on the waterford city council housing list (and before anyone asks no i cant live with my parents or any other relations ) iv been up and down to my welfare officer for the last month each time i go they tell me to come back with something else ( a joke i might add ) service is terible.

so after I got everything together including letters from my landlord stating that he's accepting rent allowence and the 468 set rate for my area per month aswell as proof im looking for work and confirmation iv interviews for FAS and Failte courses this month! aswell as returning to college in september!! and references from previous employers.

The welfare officer has the cheek to tell me that there was a new rule brought in 6-7 weeks back that because im 21 and on the full 196 euro per week on jobseeker allowence that i might not be entitled to rent allowence! so i asked the officer why didnt they tell me this 1 month ago when i first applied instead of stringing me along like an idiot!! and also how come it is not written anywhere on the list of requirements for rent allowence? needless to say the officer was speechless and had no reply and just told me if i get refused i can appeal.

so the following week i receive the refusal letter (obvious from what that idiot told me without actually saying it) stating the following :

excess income i.e

jobseekers allowence 196
SWA rate fo 21 year old 100
excess = 96 euro
statutory contribution 24 euro

rent maximum lmit is 108 euro > nil entitlement


so im baiscally getting punished for being eligable for 196 euros per week because i signed on before the changes in the budget, its not my fault I didnt get cut nor my fault i cant find a job in this ****hole of a country.

im appealing the decision and the appeal has to be written and posted to clonmel (avoiding face to face contact) within 21 days. im going down to the consumer rights in waterford in the morning.

can anyone help me or have any expereince with this??
or else im going to the shelter and end up homeless serious talk all because im on 196 euros per week and not the cut rate!!:mad:

cheers in advanced!!!:)

sorry about my spelling too:)

just too sum it all up and show people how bad this country is and the people who make the rules ... im accepted for the need of housing from the waterford city council as they know my story but refused rent allowence ????

Dempo1

I think your problem is the length of time you are renting, apparently you have to be at least six months renting before being considered, also rent allowance does not cover deposits etc, its a portion of your weekly rent.

mufcboy1999

its not mate i looked into that im need of housing or rent allowence i didnt move out voluntary i had too get my own place.

iv been turned down purely because im on 196euro pw and i had a meeting again today with my welfare officer and i was told that when i appeal each case is individually dealt with and that i would be waiting around 2 months for a reply (terrible service) so in meantime il be down in the shelter living the life on my 196 pw no wonder people turn to crime for money in this country.

Dempo1

Sorry about this, i was led to believe you need to be in private rented accommodation for at least 6 months. Have you considered contacting http://www.threshold.ie/ there a housing organization and may be able to offer better advice. Your circumstances seem to be very difficult (living in a shelter etc), its not much consolation but believe me there are many others with young families in similar situations. Good luck with this

mufcboy1999

cheers mate,

im going to give threshold a ring at 2 at find out what they say, then im going to the waterford city council as they approved me for housing so maybe they can help me with rent allowence.

if i was to stay living in the apartment until i got the rent allowence id have to pay around 117 per week and then 40 euro on my loan so id be left with a few quid and id have esb and heating so my only option is too become homeless.

i feel for the people with young children to be honest its not on what there doing, the person who makes these decisions is on a 2000 euro per week salary how can this happen?

they are driven people to emigration its a cover up they dont want to pay anyone, here's a taught any foreign person who is on the dole and not working send them home that will save the government millions if there's no work here for the foreigners go on off home for yourself and claim your own dole and rent allowence (not being a racist) but honestly most of them are to hear to work.

Xiney

mufcboy1999 wrote: »

they are driven people to emigration its a cover up they dont want to pay anyone, here's a taught any foreign person who is on the dole and not working send them home that will save the government millions if there's no work here for the foreigners go on off home for yourself and claim your own dole and rent allowence (not being a racist) but honestly most of them are to hear to work.

If someone is on the dole they have an underlying entitlement to it regardless of their nationality.

jor el

mufcboy1999 wrote: »

they are driven people to emigration its a cover up they dont want to pay anyone, here's a taught any foreign person who is on the dole and not working send them home that will save the government millions if there's no work here for the foreigners go on off home for yourself and claim your own dole and rent allowence (not being a racist) but honestly most of them are to hear to work.

And what of all the Irish people living abroad, and claiming benefits in those countries? Should be bring them all back to burden the state at the same time? Just because you say it's not racist, doesn't mean it isn't. Small minded attitudes like this help no one.

Dempo1

Xiney wrote: »

If someone is on the dole they have an underlying entitlement to it regardless of their nationality.

Yes agreed and despite being in a bad situation there is not much point in taking it out on foreigners (My girlfriend is Polish) worked none stop in Ireland for five years and now get €135 per week on JSA, hence the reason she now has to return home.

Balagan

Any chance you can explain to your landlord what's happened and get a cheaper place or a place to share with someone else, thereby bringing down the rent? The same landlord might have somewhere else suitable. With respect to your appeal, I would recommend keeping the written appeal focussed on the fact that you went ahead and got this apartment on the understanding, from everything you read on SW sites, Citizens Info sites etc., that you would qualify for Rent Allowance and that nobody you had spoken with in HSE/SW tipped you off in advance of your renting that you would be refused because of this relatively new ruling. You don't have to beg in the appeal letter, but, for your own sake, don't shoot your mouth off in it either.

Trish2007

Your still 12 euro better off a week than if you were getting 100 euro and your rent allowance. If max rent is 108 you would have gotten 108-24=84 rent allowance and 100 euro for JSA. So that would be 184. You would still have to pay out 108 a week rent leaving you with 76euro.

I know its not what you want to hear but I dont think you will get very far with your appeal, they arent going to take into consideration you are repaying a loan.

mufcboy1999

i cant help the way i feel when you come from the bottom and have nothing maybe your opininons might change belive it or not there are some people in real real trouble like myself who are on the verge of being homeless so until you reach them lows dont preach to me.

im not one bit racist thats just how i feel im entitled to my opinion as you are so dont get on to me about what i said.


If someone is on the dole they have an underlying entitlement to it regardless of their nationality
xine: i respect your opinion but i dont agree unless they are in there own country.

also if someone is in need of rent allowence they should have an underlying entitlement to it i.e if they are on the verge of becoming homeless

im entitled to this payment no matter what they say this is a joke a scam and fraud imagine being turned down rent allowence and being expected to live on 40 euro per week all because the same government kept me on 196euro lol dont defend this mockery of a system you'l have to experience it to know it.

by the way if anyone can find me an apartment in waterford for less than 450 per month fair play to you because encase you havnt noticed its not as easy as that why do you think so many people have trouble finding accomidation that accepts rent allowence!

if you dont like what i say dont reply

cheers thanks for the help

cee_jay

mufcboy1999 wrote: »

im not one bit racist thats just how i feel im entitled to my opinion as you are so dont get on to me about what i said.


If someone is on the dole they have an underlying entitlement to it regardless of their nationality
xine: i respect your opinion but i dont agree unless they are in there own country.



if you dont like what i say dont reply

cheers thanks for the help

mufcboy I understand you are in a difficult situation, I have already infracted you for breach of forum charter - please read the charter before posting again. There is Zero Tolerance for posters being critical of those on benefits either individual posters or benefit claimants as a group.
Also, people are trying to help others on this forum, they are just as entitled to their opinion as you are.
Final warning.
Thanks.

shoegirl

mufcboy1999 wrote: »

im entitled to this payment no matter what they say this is a joke a scam and fraud imagine being turned down rent allowence and being expected to live on 40 euro per week all because the same government kept me on 196euro lol dont defend this mockery of a system you'l have to experience it to know it.

Actually I've experienced worse - the UK system. Far more red tape and you absolutely will not get anything unless you are 6 months into the rental. And the basic dole is only about 1/3 of what it is here.

Lots of people are turned down for rent subsidies simply becaue their rent is too much. Surely in Waterford you can find a place to share for less? I know the rates in Dublin are well beneath what most shared places go for but in the rest of the country there is usually at least a small amount of shares at rock bottom prices.

And before you start at me, my own notice period runs out in June, and my lease 2 weeks before that. My own rent is nearly 40 euro over the threshold so unless I can find another job its back to crashing on parents floor - on the other side of the country. I'd rather give my mother 60 euro a week than some profiteering landlord. I am sure if you offered, some friend would be happy to "keep" you for a small amount, temporarily, until something more suitable comes along.

Trish2007

I wouldnt go blaming the government for keeping you on 196euro, as I pointed out earlier you would be worse off if they reduced your payment to 100euro and gave you rent allowance. In all fairness your having to live on 40euro a week because your repaying a loan otherwise you would have 88 euro which considering your single is quite do-able. What Im trying to say is dont go in all guns blazing to the CWO saying its not fair because its not their fault you have other debts. Is there anyway you can reduce the repayments on your loan?

mufcboy1999

trish:

that loan was taking out over a personal injury i had no choice at all! thats why im in debt i never got a holday or fancy car like majority of young people getting loans and either way i was working when i got the loan. recently the bank would not reduce my loan so i had to take another loan out of the credit union to pay the bank so id get cheaper payments 40 euro is the lowest they would can go.

shoegirl: im up to my eyes in debt and have a few fines that i have to pay aswell getting a lend of a freind is a big no no as i wouldnt like to be in debt with a freind. and i dont know anyone who is looking to share at all most of my freinds live at home.

the landlord is just going to have to take the rent from my deposit simple as and il give him the months notice so at least il have another month and hopefully in another month they will after of reading my appeal and accepting it, i also write a small cover letter too explaining my situation.

im taking a trip to my community welfare officer 1st thing monday morning they will have to do something.

you cant defend the government it is there fault.

eyesofvenus

Lol OP i think you've totally misunderstood the situation as a whole!!
You have not been refused based on your JSA payment, you have been refused based on the fact that your weekly rent is over the maximum allowed to be able to qualify for it!
Straight from SW website:
Single Person Maximum Rent = Carlow, Kilkenny, Waterford, Wexford and Tipperary South €108 per week, yours is over this.

Here's the soultion: Find somewhere cheaper or convince your landlord to drop your rent by around €10 per week

Edited in this useful website: http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/social-welfare/social-welfare-payments/supplementary-welfare-schemes/rent_supplement

All info you need is there + the maximum rent per week for each county near the bottom, you cant argue with that, its in black and white

Balagan

eyesofvenus wrote: »

Lol OP i think you've totally misunderstood the situation as a whole!!
You have not been refused based on your JSA payment, you have been refused based on the fact that your weekly rent is over the maximum allowed to be able to qualify for it!
Straight from SW website:
Single Person Maximum Rent = Carlow, Kilkenny, Waterford, Wexford and Tipperary South €108 per week, yours is over this.

Here's the soultion: Find somewhere cheaper or convince your landlord to drop your rent by around €10 per week

Edited in this useful website: http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/social-welfare/social-welfare-payments/supplementary-welfare-schemes/rent_supplement

All info you need is there + the maximum rent per week for each county near the bottom, you cant argue with that, its in black and white

He pays 468 per month so how much do you make his weekly rent to be?

eyesofvenus

Balagan wrote: »

He pays 468 per month so how much do you make his weekly rent to be?

117 p/w so as i said in or around €10 less to qualify

Balagan

eyesofvenus wrote: »

117 p/w so as i said in or around €10 less to qualify

€468 x 12months = €5,616 yearly divided by 52 = €108 weekly

eyesofvenus

Balagan wrote: »

€468 x 12months = €5,616 yearly divided by 52 = €108 weekly

Is that how they work it out? Or is it not worked out on a month by month basis?

Balagan

eyesofvenus wrote: »

Is that how they work it out? Or is it not worked out on a month by month basis?[/QUOTE


from http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/social-welfare/social-welfare-payments/supplementary-welfare-schemes/calculating-rent-supplement

Step 5: Find your Rent Supplement payment
To calculate your Rent Supplement you subtract your total contribution from your rent.
In Step 4, you found your total contribution towards your rent. Now you need to find out how much your weekly rent is. You may already know how much your weekly rent is. If you pay your rent by month, you must multiply your monthly rent figure by 12 and divide it by 52 to get your weekly rent figure. You rent must not be above the maximum limit set for your area by the Health Service Executive.

eyesofvenus

Balagan wrote: »

eyesofvenus wrote: »

Is that how they work it out? Or is it not worked out on a month by month basis?[/QUOTE


from http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/social-welfare/social-welfare-payments/supplementary-welfare-schemes/calculating-rent-supplement

Step 5: Find your Rent Supplement payment
To calculate your Rent Supplement you subtract your total contribution from your rent.
In Step 4, you found your total contribution towards your rent. Now you need to find out how much your weekly rent is. You may already know how much your weekly rent is. If you pay your rent by month, you must multiply your monthly rent figure by 12 and divide it by 52 to get your weekly rent figure. You rent must not be above the maximum limit set for your area by the Health Service Executive.

Ok thank you. i conceed i was wrong, although it still mentions on site about needing to be in accommodation 6 months before being eligable otherwise you need to satisfy to them that you are in desperate need of this particular accommodation and to be honest waterford has cheaper weekly rent places than that

mufcboy1999

Balagan wrote: »

eyesofvenus wrote: »

Is that how they work it out? Or is it not worked out on a month by month basis?[/QUOTE


from http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/social-welfare/social-welfare-payments/supplementary-welfare-schemes/calculating-rent-supplement

Step 5: Find your Rent Supplement payment
To calculate your Rent Supplement you subtract your total contribution from your rent.
In Step 4, you found your total contribution towards your rent. Now you need to find out how much your weekly rent is. You may already know how much your weekly rent is. If you pay your rent by month, you must multiply your monthly rent figure by 12 and divide it by 52 to get your weekly rent figure. You rent must not be above the maximum limit set for your area by the Health Service Executive.

balagan thanks for very much for that you just saved me a lot of time an effort explaining how it works to eyesofvenus, cheers. and eyes i have been turned down because of JSA it says so on the refusal form i should know i have it in front of me.

as far as the being renting for 6 months before you get the payment that occurs in most cases but for people who are not working they take an exception.

Balagan

eyesofvenus wrote: »

Balagan wrote: »

Ok thank you. i conceed i was wrong, although it still mentions on site about needing to be in accommodation 6 months before being eligable otherwise you need to satisfy to them that you are in desperate need of this particular accommodation and to be honest waterford has cheaper weekly rent places than that

Not so much that any of us are wrong or right, just that we're all at different places on a learning curve that we wish we'd never had to tackle at all!

artful_codger

mufcboy1999 wrote: »

im up to my eyes in debt and have a few fines that i have to pay aswell

try not to break the law so much, you'll find it's cheaper that way.

Vanhalla

i havent bothered readin all this but there should be a rule that you can only get rent allowance if you are sharing a house. ie, renting a room , not a full feckin house. unless you have some disability or something and need ur own place!
who do these ppl think they are like. royalty. you expect the government to pay for a house for you. bolox. get a room!

Teddy Daniels

also if you get a fine i don't think the social welfare should pay it
in my opinion that is not a fine at all

chasm

Vanhalla wrote: »

i havent bothered readin all this but there should be a rule that you can only get rent allowance if you are sharing a house. ie, renting a room , not a full feckin house. unless you have some disability or something and need ur own place!
who do these ppl think they are like. royalty. you expect the government to pay for a house for you. bolox. get a room!

The size of accommodation is taken into account along with family size and cost of rent. I claimed rent allowance about 8 years ago, i moved into a 2 bed terrace, i was given rent allowance because the rent was cheaper than any other accommodation in the area, that includes bedsits and i provided evidence of such.

mufcboy1999

Vanhalla wrote: »

i havent bothered readin all this but there should be a rule that you can only get rent allowance if you are sharing a house. ie, renting a room , not a full feckin house. unless you have some disability or something and need ur own place!
who do these ppl think they are like. royalty. you expect the government to pay for a house for you. bolox. get a room!

great quote vanhalla you really brought your A game here lol i wont even dignifiy that with a proper reply only people who share a house should get rent allowence lol im talking about a 1 bed flat about the size of a room in a house so in future read before you post.

mufcboy1999

Teddy Daniels wrote: »

also if you get a fine i don't think the social welfare should pay it
in my opinion that is not a fine at all

who said anything about social paying my fines teddy?

mufcboy1999

artful_codger wrote: »

try not to break the law so much, you'll find it's cheaper that way.

ye i know that lol

eyesofvenus

mufcboy1999 wrote: »

who said anything about social paying my fines teddy?

I think what he meant by it was: you mentioned it as a factor of you finding it hard to get by, the SW dont care about this so it hasnt got much relevance at all to your issue

Monkey61

Can you not just rent somewhere cheaper? I'm not trying to be smart, but I have lived on less than 200 a week in Dublin no problem and surely Waterford is a much cheaper city??

I may have missed something, but I don't see either, how you think you are going to become homeless....you get 196 a week for God's sake.

Nonoperational

Second that. I pay just over €300 in cork city. €486 is madness. You may have to move in with others but it's an option.

RamblingRebel

OP. I'm wondering. Do you go into the HSE offices with the 'demanding' attitude you have been displaying in this thread?

No office meant lad, but I've worked in surroundings dealing with the public's problems, and I have seen people rejected for any help purely on the grounds of being a muppet, (obviously that wasn't the reason given)

YOU SAID:
"...as far as the being renting for 6 months before you get the payment that occurs in most cases but for people who are not working they take an exception..."

Can't find the bold bit on any gov website!

Perhaps it was like that at one time, and maybe in some cases it still is, but from what I gather public spending is being hit really hard lately.

You have to remember the people who are making these decisions are people. Lets be honest now, no-one likes a gobs**te!

Apart from the above my only other suggestion is that you struggle for 6 month then try again.

Balagan

Being on the housing list, which he is, means the renting for 6 months requirement is waived.


from http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/social-welfare/social-welfare-payments/supplementary-welfare-schemes/rent_supplement

You may get Rent Supplement if you have been living for 6 months (183 days) out of the last 12 months in one, or a combination, of the following:

* Accommodation for homeless people
* Private rented accommodation. You must be able to show that you could afford the rent at the beginning of your tenancy and that you could have continued to pay rent but are unable to do so because of a change in your circumstances which occurred after you started renting.
* An institution, for example, a hospital, care home or place of detention

Or

* Be assessed in the last 12 months by a local authority as being eligible for and in need of social housing. If you don't have a housing need assessment, you must go to the local authority to have your housing need assessed. The local authority must be in the same area that you intend to live and claim Rent Supplement. Only when you are assessed as eligible for and in need of housing can you apply for Rent Supplement. Rent Supplement is not payable while the local authority is carrying out a housing needs assessment.

mufcboy1999

Balagan wrote: »

Being on the housing list, which he is, means the renting for 6 months requirement is waived.


from http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/social-welfare/social-welfare-payments/supplementary-welfare-schemes/rent_supplement

You may get Rent Supplement if you have been living for 6 months (183 days) out of the last 12 months in one, or a combination, of the following:

* Accommodation for homeless people
* Private rented accommodation. You must be able to show that you could afford the rent at the beginning of your tenancy and that you could have continued to pay rent but are unable to do so because of a change in your circumstances which occurred after you started renting.
* An institution, for example, a hospital, care home or place of detention

Or

* Be assessed in the last 12 months by a local authority as being eligible for and in need of social housing. If you don't have a housing need assessment, you must go to the local authority to have your housing need assessed. The local authority must be in the same area that you intend to live and claim Rent Supplement. Only when you are assessed as eligible for and in need of housing can you apply for Rent Supplement. Rent Supplement is not payable while the local authority is carrying out a housing needs assessment.

balagan : cheers for that info, thats what i taught, well the rules have clearly changed so they tell me! they should change the rules on the list of requirements for rent allowence as it is misleading people and giving out false imformation as it clearly says nothing about being 21 on jobseekers allowence as a reason why im not entitled to it.

no lads i dont have that attitude going in there and unless anyone has anything postive to say stay out of my thread especially any government cronies who talk the walk but dont walk it you get me:).

and monkey people like you give me a headache honestly bud,

ye i get 196 euro per week iv mentiond before i have a loan that i have to pay as well feed myself and pay rent not to mention clothes,transport before you ask bus money! and no i dont have anyone to borrow a sly tenner of either so ye it is pretty hard to get by on for me! and not to mention a few quid to go out and socialise which i dont have.

im currently looking for somewhere cheaper for next month iv handed in my notice.

being accepted by the city council as in need for housing and then being turned down rent allowence because of JBS allowence makes no sense end off.