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Is Wheel of Time worth it?
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09-03-2010 6:49pm#1
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After book 4 it went downhill for me just seemed to get really puffed out with a ridiculous number of parallel plot lines. Book 11 was an improvement as it was the first time that all the plot lines seemed to start to resolve towards a conclusion
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After book 4 it went downhill for me just seemed to get really puffed out with a ridiculous number of parallel plot lines. Book 11 was an improvement as it was the first time that all the plot lines seemed to start to resolve towards a conclusion
Thanks lads, from what I hear it seems Jordan was either an absolute genius who knew how the whole series would conclude even before he began, or else he was an absolute bluffer who wrote to a strict fantasy formula which he padded to death. Like I said, I'm on book 4 so the plot is still developing but already I'm starting to see certain aspects losing their momentum and getting a bit frayed.0 -
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pljudge321 wrote: »Tugs Braid, looks at dress, smooths dress, looks at cleavage, looks jealously at other women's cleavage, tugs braid again, thinks about man, get angry, tugs braid so hard it hurts, get angry at self, gets angry at man for inadvertently making self angry, tugs braid again, smooths the creases out of dress caused by all of the braid tugging, etc etc
You forgot the sniffing!
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The women are quite tedious to read but as a guy i just always put that down to not understanding what women were after in real life and RJ applying that to the manner in which he presented his female characters
I know it can be very simple at times the way they are represented, but the manner in which they get so competitive with each other without actually showing that competitiveness publicly was pretty hilarious, and is often commented upon by the male characters.
The male characters meanwhile fulfill the stereotype of 'getting on' with things despite possibly doing themselves injury on the process but not having any interest of self preservation, which in turn infuriates the women. Lan's personal war with the blight being an example of this... It's like he and nynaeve are the two archetypes of this representation, most of the other characters fall somwhere in between on the spectrum.
It's just one subplot of many interesting and engaging ones in the series and to be honest i am a massive fan.
I often sneer at those who 'quit' after book 4 and i consider it my right to do so simply because those who quit do so out of frustration with themselves more so than frustration with the writer. If you cant handle the amount of characters dont moan about it for ruining the series just accept that you're not up to the task of understanding his work
Go read Steven Erikson and you may find it more to your taste :?0 -
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I often sneer at those who 'quit' after book 4 and i consider it my right to do so simply because those who quit do so out of frustration with themselves more so than frustration with the writer. If you cant handle the amount of characters dont moan about it for ruining the series just accept that you're not up to the task of understanding his work
It's nothing to do with the amount of characters - there's not that many of them - or "understanding" his work - it's not like it's great literary stuff - it's nothing more than an entertaining light fantasy read. It's everything to do with the stalling plot, characters descending into cliches, lack of editing, and dull plodding prose. I have to laugh at the notion that anyone would not be up to the task of understanding RJ - it's like the crap that Terry Goodkind comes out with to deflect from the juvenile level of his regurgitated Rand flavoured EFP.Go read Steven Erikson and you may find it more to your taste :?
I did. In a lot of ways, it is.0 -
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The women are quite tedious to read but as a guy i just always put that down to not understanding what women were after in real life and RJ applying that to the manner in which he presented his female characters
I know it can be very simple at times the way they are represented, but the manner in which they get so competitive with each other without actually showing that competitiveness publicly was pretty hilarious, and is often commented upon by the male characters.
The male characters meanwhile fulfill the stereotype of 'getting on' with things despite possibly doing themselves injury on the process but not having any interest of self preservation, which in turn infuriates the women. Lan's personal war with the blight being an example of this... It's like he and nynaeve are the two archetypes of this representation, most of the other characters fall somwhere in between on the spectrum.
It's just one subplot of many interesting and engaging ones in the series and to be honest i am a massive fan.
I often sneer at those who 'quit' after book 4 and i consider it my right to do so simply because those who quit do so out of frustration with themselves more so than frustration with the writer. If you cant handle the amount of characters dont moan about it for ruining the series just accept that you're not up to the task of understanding his work
Go read Steven Erikson and you may find it more to your taste :?
Erikson is more to my taste.
For me it was boredom rather than frustration that stopped me.
I felt i'd read it all before.
Also the idea of 'persevering' does'nt appeal to me.
Goes against what i'm looking for in a book.
Fullhouse asked for opinions,
i dont think you should sneer at people for giving them.
Or for anything else for that matter.0 -
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Yes i snared one with my condescending tone!
*Shakes fist angrily* DAMN YUOOOOO MONCAAAAAIIIII!Sorry if i riled you up a bit Mike, i was just having a laugh. I've listened to exactly the same arguments as i just presented, the 'sneering' arguments, in favour of RJ's books lots of times and since it wasn't present in this thread i just decided to throw it in.
Nah, I see what you're getting at - I was a huge fan of WoT back in the day, on the usenet groups and so on. I tend to be far more critical of series I liked that went downhill, or ones that had potential.I agree with you about the simplicity of the series, it is light and entertaining, but in no place can it be considered particularly insightful or challenging.
It's a shame it couldn't have been finished in 6 books. (Or less).I love the Terry Goodkind slur too, the sword of truth series has to be the most repetitive stuff around.
Goodkind stirs a particular anger in me - he's generic as hell as far as I'm concerned, but when I read interviews with him where he's answering fan questions and says things like "If you think Sword of Truth is simply a fantasy book, you're not old enough / smart enough to understand my genius" and I want to throttle him. (I may have anger management issues.)One thing i would ask you about though... you said WoT needs and editor.... surely you must think the same of malazan series??
Weird though it may seem, I think Malazan works as it is. It's sort of this crazy headlong charge of books, that are so massive in scope, and strangely consistent in their own universe, and very unlike most things I've read in the fantasy genre (there are nods to Glen Cook definitely), that it works in the context of the books. And when I started Gardens of the Moon, I despised it. Hated it. Got halfway through it and abandoned it. Then I picked it up again, and it sort of clicked. I'd rank Deadhouse Gates as one of the best fantasy novels I've ever read.My suggestion you read Steven Erikson if looking for something more simple was very tounge in cheek.
*Shakes fist again*
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Yeah for what it's worth, book 4 is the longest in the series i believe, and it certainly feels like it. I think theres enough content in what happens in book 4 to justify it's size, but it just seems Jordan puts his foot to the pedal in book 4 and churns out alot of storyline in a short space of time, it's part of the reason i think so many people walk away from it around book 5/6. There's alot going on in these books, and i dont mean that in a good way. It seems like some of the more significant plot points happen in books 4/5/6 but unfortunately Jordans writing isn't up to scratch in that he seems to overcomplicate things to the point of cluttering up the devlopment of the story.
It's all written in an easy to read manner, but the burgeoning context of all of the characters by book 4 is such that he could have written an entire series based on many of them alone, nevermind having about 6 or 7 of them running concurrently.
I know that i was actively surfing the wotmania website forums at the time and as a result i got caught up in a lot of theory posts by other readers... they took time to read and they were often well thought out and constructed, it nearly meant that i got through books 5-8 just to see what happened.
One of robert jordans famous catchphrases from book conventions etc was; 'RAFO' - read and find out.
I can honestly say thats exactly what i'm in the series for. It's not for any brilliantly constructed prose or literary genius per se. I just think its an epic story.
Like the neverending story movie in book form, makes great sunday afternoon tv.
Whell of Time has certainly gotten me through many hungover mornings 0 -
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Never started and although I've wondered about wheel of time, after reading this thread don't think I ever will start it...
Oly once have I forced myself through a series of heavy crap volumes, thinking for it to get better again and it didn't. I'm looking at you stephen king and your dark tower, first three were brilliant, fourth was a slog with the whole memoir thing............ five was ok and the last two should not be mentioned
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I know this thread's a tad old, but hey, hard to find anyone who's read the whole lot :P
Just finished book 4, started the series for the first time about 6 years ago when I was 13/14 and got as far as book 4, found it a bit heavy going and decided to read a couple of other books before going back to it, but by the time I picked it back up i'd forgotten just about everything. Tried at least 10 times to start from scratch again with The Eye of The World and could never get more than 60-odd pages in. Was quite ill a few months ago and decided there was no better time to force myself back into the series. Just finished book 4 again, vaguely remembered bits and pieces up to this point but it's new ground from here on in.
I like it, the repetetive phrasing does my head in (The wheel weaves as the wheel wills, does anyone else get tongue-tied even reading that in their head!?) along with constantly reminding us how stubborn Two Rivers folk are and how Aes Sedai can't lie but the truth you hear may not be the truth you think etc. All that aside, I really like the characters, the majority of storylines are interesting I find (thus far) and it's a well-crafted world I think. There is far too much emphasis on some of the minor details I feel and often whole chapters can feel like a real drag, but overall i'm still enjoying them and am looking forward to starting book 5.
Sorry for the essay, just trying to avoid studying for a bit! Wish me luck with the rest 0 -
Man i cant believe you had trouble getting into the eye of the world!
From page 68 onwards that book is probably one of my favourite story's.
As soon as the first trolloc breaks down the door the whole thing seems to unreavel like a movie playing in my head, i dont think it's because the writing is particularly moving, more so because it seems Jordan has carefully amalgamated different characters and legends from various cultures across the world to come up with a rainbow type tale that seems to push all my buttons. The Wotmania website theory board section has covered the relationships lots of characters in the book have to real world legends such as Rand playing the Jesus Christ superstar role but taking a darker path than fish and loaves, Mat is most often likened to Loki the Norse god of mischief, Perrin as the Prodigal son of the Two Rivers, the Tuatha'an as the Gypsy folk from Ireland to Romania.... the list goes on and on, but it's been a couple of years since i was really into it so i cant remember all the allusions found in the series.
When you think of it, it sure is a very formulaic way of creating a best selling fantasy series... just pick your fav or the most influential cultural stories and piece them together with a bit of a twist.
I love it though. As i said before, re reading a book of the WoT series is the best hangover cure i can think of 0 -
I loved it from that point onwards, and I could remember loving the book the first time around but I just couldn't get past the first couple of chapters for ages!.
Glad I did now, a couple of chapters into book 5, it's started slowly (shockingly!) but i'm looking forward to getting a good run at the series over the summer 0 -
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