Dublin Metrolink (just Metrolink posts here -see post #1 )

Podge_irl

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Also Metrolink did not even let the staff at the Markievicz know in time before thier 'consultation process' passed.
It has a certain underhanded nature about it, both staff and the public were deliberately kept in the dark for as long as possible.

If anything the project is being bogged down by being far too "overhanded" in nature.

gormdubhgorm

markpb wrote: »

It's a public consultation process. It was on the radio, in the papers, it was discussed here and there were road shows. DCC, as owner of the building, were notified. There's nothing underhanded about it.

Also, why did you feel the need to put quotes around the consultation period. Was it an attempt at a sly dig that the consultation process makes no difference? That would be daft because we all know that they received tens of thousands of submissions, have already made major changes to the proposed route and may abandon half of it because of public input so any suggestion that there's no consultation is clearly daft.

Yes it was underhanded there is no doubt about it.
The former manager of the gym was not notified until after the consultation process I know that for a fact.
Also those living in the departments were kept in the dark as well. One woman was in tears having just brought an apartment etc etc.
It was not advertised as much as you think.
Perhaps people are in a bubble here and are keeping a closer eye on it?

marno21

jvan wrote: »

For whatever reason there has been a huge amount of biased, unbalanced reporting on Metrolink by Todayfm and Newstalk the last couple of days. Whether they think they're solving another Nch style scandal or have vested interests I don't know. Both rolling out Eamon Ryan as some sort of expert.
If only Gavan Reilly was more vocal in favour.

The funny thing is that Wednesday on Newstalk Breakfast they had a transport lecturer on to explain exactly why the Green Line upgrade is so badly needed and the presenters were in full agreement about this before he even spoke.

2 hours later back to ripping up Luas tracks on Pat Kenny's show

CatInABox wrote: »

It'll all come down to votes in the end, and the equation is only ever going to change against the residents of Ranelagh. By 2025, any government will be faced with losing the approximately 4000 votes (I actually don't think it's anywhere near as much) around Dunville Avenue, or losing the votes all along the length of the Green Line as congestion hits.

Anyway, having read what the minister said, I still think that the NTA will come back with a plan to run it south, and that the media have just assumed something not in evidence. I note that Ross has said that the NTA will come back with a plan in the second half of March, so that's another little delay, I had believed that it was going to be out in the first half.

I would agree here. It seems the media were equating Shane Ross saying that a 2/4 year closure was off the table meaning that the upgrade was abandoned, because seemingly no one wants to do the research and find out that a 2/4 year closure was never a REALISTIC option anyway

From listening to Ross in the Dail yesterday it seems he has advised the NTA & TII to run with the Green Line upgrade option that causes the least disruption, rather than basing their decision on cost

citizen6 wrote: »

If southside metro upgrade is canned, presumably that kills the Bray and Finglas Luas extensions, as these would add demand to a route with no spare capacity.

That's a big chunk of the NTA's transport strategy gone. I wonder how eager they'll be to revisit the upgrade when the capacity problems really hit.

How does eliminating the southside upgrade affect the chances of 90m metro stations being built on the northside?

The NTA were only planning on funding design + planning of the 4 Luas extensions between now and 2027 anyway. It seems the capital funding for the GDA 2016-2035 plan runs something like:

2018-2027: MetroLink, BusConnects, DART Expansion, Luas lines planning/design
2027-2035: Luas line constructions, DART Underground

AlmightyCushion

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Yes it was underhanded there is no doubt about it.
The former manager of the gym was not notified until after the consultation process I know that for a fact.
Also those living in the departments were kept in the dark as well. One woman was in tears having just brought an apartment etc etc.
It was not advertised as much as you think.
Perhaps people are in a bubble here and are keeping a closer eye on it?

You do realise this woman won't be thrown out on the street tomorrow morning, right? That building won't be demolished for years and when it is her apartment will be CPO'd. She will have plenty of notice and will be given well above market value at the time it is CPO'd.

Podge_irl

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Yes it was underhanded there is no doubt about it.
The former manager of the gym was not notified until after the consultation process I know that for a fact.
Also those living in the departments were kept in the dark as well. One woman was in tears having just brought an apartment etc etc.
It was not advertised as much as you think.
Perhaps people are in a bubble here and are keeping a closer eye on it?

How can you not be notified of something until after a wildly publicised public consultation period? Also it is not the NTA's job to notify the employees of buildings affected.

The route also still hasn't been finalised.

marno21

I am impressed about the level of backlash to this Fianna Fail tweet

https://twitter.com/fiannafailparty/status/1098633084084412417

salmocab

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Yes it was underhanded there is no doubt about it.
The former manager of the gym was not notified until after the consultation process I know that for a fact.
Also those living in the departments were kept in the dark as well. One woman was in tears having just brought an apartment etc etc.
It was not advertised as much as you think.
Perhaps people are in a bubble here and are keeping a closer eye on it?

There is plenty of doubt about that not least the fact that it’s still not definite that that building will be CPOd.

prunudo

Podge_irl wrote: »

If anything the project is being bogged down by being far too "overhanded" in nature.

Agree, there's actually too much consultation and means for people to stick their oar in.
There was a preferred route published with a number of options. Any talk of sw or se routes are delaying the project and giving fuel to the miniority of detractors.
It shouldn't be a debate of everyone having a metro. Its a main north/south spine that connects a number of other existing transport options and in time, other new routes can be added.

Unless we want to plan a €10-15bn metro network we have to take one step at a time.

Oh and the way Dublin has been planned and built on over the last few decades there will be collateral damage along the way. This goes for Bus connects too. We either want a functioning public transport system or the city grinds to a halt.

D.L.R.

Nation of morons.

marno21

Transcript of yesterdays Dail "debate" on the Metrolink issue with John Lahart (FF- Dublin SW), Noel Rock (FG - Dublin NW) and Jim O'Callaghan (FF - Dublin Bay South) and Shane Ross

https://www.kildarestreet.com/debates/?id=2019-02-21a.445

Idbatterim

I’ll be emailing my local fg td in south Dublin shortly. Ask her what she makes of the attempt by her fg colleagues to sabotage transport plans for much of south Dublin...

Shane Ross needs to go too. Absolute clown!

Idbatterim

“Oh and the way Dublin has been planned and built on over the last few decades there will be collateral damage along the way. This goes for Bus connects too. We either want a functioning public transport system or the city grinds to a halt.”

I’ve said it multiple times on this thread. The only thing that will force these morons , is total gridlock. The amount of building underway or planned , will force this issue ... assuming things don’t go bang in the next 2/3 years ...

marno21

Idbatterim wrote: »

I’ll be emailing my local fg td in south Dublin shortly. Ask her what she makes of the attempt by her fg colleagues to sabotage transport plans for much of south Dublin...

Shane Ross needs to go too. Absolute clown!

I'm not sure entirely what Shane Ross has done wrong in the last 2/3 days.

He defended the proposal yesterday in the Dail and rightly shot down the DBS TDs who think there's 2/3bn hiding down the back of the sofa for a 25km tunnel from Swords to Knocklyon.

prunudo

marno21 wrote: »

I'm not sure entirely what Shane Ross has done wrong in the last 2/3 days.

He defended the proposal yesterday in the Dail and rightly shot down the DBS TDs who think there's 2/3bn hiding down the back of the sofa for a 25km tunnel from Swords to Knocklyon.

True and a lot of what has been reported in the last few days is hearsay so until the actual report gets published maybe we're all getting excited over nothing. Fingers crossed anyway.

LXFlyer

To be quite honest, the consultation isn’t the problem. The media leaks are.

The constant drip feed in and leaking of partial bits of information without any context to the media is mind-numbingly frustrating.

All these stories about potential closures are meaningless without the context behind them.

Any discussion of the various options is frankly pointless until they’re actually published along with the detailed works they will require.

Idbatterim

marno21 wrote: »

I'm not sure entirely what Shane Ross has done wrong in the last 2/3 days.

He defended the proposal yesterday in the Dail and rightly shot down the DBS TDs who think there's 2/3bn hiding down the back of the sofa for a 25km tunnel from Swords to Knocklyon.

There’s endless amounts down the back of the sofa for health and welfare! That idiot has objected to a six floor incomplete building in sandyford going to eight floors. That building is beside much higher buildings. Said it was “ out of context for the area” or similar words.

He said any shut down of the line was unacceptable, for a massive infrastructure project? Even if it was for a few days? He’s an idiot.

He will likely be gone from politics before the **** hits the fan on this line again ...

There is student blocks being built there now and a lot of development in the area in general , let’s just hope it’s crush time again ASAP!

cgcsb

paddar wrote: »

It is depressing. The only way I can read these NIMBY articles is by imagining myself as a benevolent dictator in some alternative universe and having a TGV line to Wexford driven through their front lawns.

https://www.independent.ie/world-news/asia-pacific/fivestorey-house-in-middle-of-motorway-in-china-is-demolished-28942780.html

Like this guy

CatInABox

marno21 wrote: »

I'm not sure entirely what Shane Ross has done wrong in the last 2/3 days.

He defended the proposal yesterday in the Dail and rightly shot down the DBS TDs who think there's 2/3bn hiding down the back of the sofa for a 25km tunnel from Swords to Knocklyon.

Yes, I'm reluctant to praise a man with such little principles, but it's hard to fault his performance of the last few days. You could argue that his lack of leadership has resulted in these issues being raised in the first place, but even there, he was not alone in such a dereliction of duty.

Idbatterim

LXFlyer wrote: »

To be quite honest, the consultation isn’t the problem. The media leaks are.

The constant drip feed in and leaking of partial bits of information without any context to the media is mind-numbingly frustrating.

All these stories about potential closures are meaningless without the context behind them.

Any discussion of the various options is frankly pointless until they’re actually published along with the detailed works they will require.

I totally agree. We are constantly going on second hand info and hear say. Probably varadkar flying kites also...

strassenwo!f

I'm surprised the various TDs didn't pick Mr Ross up on his nonsense that the Terenure-Rathfarnham corridor is 'relatively low density' compared to the Green line.

Terenure, Rathfarnham and Firhouse/Knocklyon all have population densities which are a good bit higher than the Dundrum-Sandyford area, which is already well served by 5 (five) stops on the Green LUAS. Terenure, indeed, has a population density which is about 1,000 people per sq.km. higher than Dundrum-Sandyford.

Mr Ross should look at the 2016 census figures to prevent himself spouting rubbish.

jd

marno21 wrote: »

I'm not sure entirely what Shane Ross has done wrong in the last 2/3 days.

He defended the proposal yesterday in the Dail and rightly shot down the DBS TDs who think there's 2/3bn hiding down the back of the sofa for a 25km tunnel from Swords to Knocklyon.

I suspect the preferred route for public consultation will include the tie in to the Green Line. It may well outline different options, some more disruptive than others.

After public consultation they will give their final proposals to Government. I'd be pretty sure it won't be for anything like a 2 year closure of the line.

Idbatterim

Them increasing the scope is out of the question Strassenwolf. Look at the children’s hospital. The overruns have no doubt spooked them for the project. It’s out of the equation they will contribute another two billion odd at today’s prices to finance what you propose. We aren’t saying it’s not needed,just that it’s not happening any time soon! Also best case Dublin metro is up and running by 2027. Green line will be at capacity before that ..

It’s quite unfathomable the consequences of not connecting the line , puts the extension to bray etc out the window. They are considering this because of a few votes from idiots.

Idbatterim

Would anyone here disagree that given we don’t control the idiot media here and non of us are politicians , the only way to effectively counter it, would be on social media attacking the fools like lord Ross? All he cares about is votes and how he is perceived...

They will no doubt come up with a feasible solution that works for everyone, a fudge. It’s what we do best ... because when you think about it , not connecting the lines leads to some big problems ...

CatInABox

strassenwo!f wrote: »

I'm surprised the various TDs didn't pick Mr Ross up on his nonsense that the Terenure-Rathfarnham corridor is 'relatively low density' compared to the Green line.

Terenure, Rathfarnham and Firhouse/Knocklyon all have population densities which are a good bit higher than the Dundrum-Sandyford area, which is already well served by 5 (five) stops on the Green LUAS. Terenure, indeed, has a population density which is about 1,000 people per sq.km. higher than Dundrum-Sandyford.

Mr Ross should look at the 2016 census figures to prevent himself spouting rubbish.

It is though, because he's talking about the entire green line. Sum the people of Terenure, Rathfarnham and Knocklyon, and then sum the people of Ranelagh, Beechwood, Cowper, Milltown, Windy Arbour, Dundrum, Balally, Kilmacud, Stilllorgan, Sandyford, Central Park, Glen Cairn, The Gallops, Leopardstown Valley, Ballyogan Wood, Carrickmines, Laughanstown, Cherrywood, and Brides Glen.

There's a clear winner there Strassenwo!f.

cgcsb

Shane Ross isn't at fault, all he said was he couldn't accept years of closures, we all agree on that.

CatInABox

marno21 wrote: »

I am impressed about the level of backlash to this Fianna Fail tweet

That is quite the backlash actually. If that keeps up, then they might reconsider there opposition to everything.

cgcsb

The swinging pendulum of democracy has clearly swung too far, the public consultation process has become a political soap box, the process needs to pared down. A notice of plans in the paper, a 4 week window for emails, 4 additional weeks for consideration of emails and boom you're done, notice of CPO in the post and a planning ape gone in.

woohoo!!!

LXFlyer wrote: »

To be quite honest, the consultation isn’t the problem. The media leaks are.

The constant drip feed in and leaking of partial bits of information without any context to the media is mind-numbingly frustrating.

All these stories about potential closures are meaningless without the context behind them.

Any discussion of the various options is frankly pointless until they’re actually published along with the detailed works they will require.

That's a great point and we give out about UK media over other issues...

salmocab

Having read the transcript from yesterday I’m not sure anything has actually changed, yet. Whilst I think Ross is a waste of oxygen he said nothing I can see that suggests this is dead yet.

I’m in Laharts constituency and he is a grade A fool.

antoinolachtnai

If you want to do something, contact your TD, leave a message on the answering machine, talk to someone or at least email.