Bacik calls for right to paternity leave for men

OldGoat

Bacik calls for right to paternity leave for men

Source

Calling for a change in the law, Senator Bacik said: “The State must give fathers recognition in the workplace by legislating for the right to take even a few weeks’ paid paternity leave. It is most unfair on men, women and children that the parenting responsibilities of fathers specifically are not given any legal acknowledgement in their employment.

Thats more golf for me then. It is going to be backdated isn't it? Please?

gaz wac

^^ say again !

Will

I think we get 2 days paternity leave or something like that, my old french teacher (who is in french) was disgusted at it when he had his first kid with his wife.

Stheno

Will wrote: »

I think we get 2 days paternity leave or something like that, my old french teacher (who is in french) was disgusted at it when he had his first kid with his wife.

We'd a case in work recently where a bloke was highly annoyed that he couldn't take his wife's maternity leave.

In my opinion parental leave should be a blanket option following the birth of a child, so that either parent can take the time off.

And no OG it won't be backdated.

Will

Ok isn't recognised by irish law - have a peak;

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/employment/employment-rights-and-conditions/leave-and-holidays/paternity_leave

Nevyn

This comes up time and time again in the parenting forum and I have pushed posters to lobby thier td's on this. There was a group set up and an online petition but there wasn't enough intrest to keep it going. http://www.petitiononline.com/time4dad/petition.html

Statutory Paternity Leave in Europe:

Ireland is right down the bottom of the European league table:

* Iceland - 3 months paid paternity leave
* Slovenia - 90 days paid paternity leave
* Norway *(Outside EU) - 6 weeks paternity leave
("use it or lose it")
* Finland - 18 days paid paternity
(proposing to raise it to 25 days)
* Denmark - 14 days paid paternity
* Estonia - 14 calendar days
* France - 2 weeks paid paternity
* Italy - 2 weeks paid paternity
* UK - 2 weeks paid paternity (from 2003)
* Sweden - 10 days paid paternity leave
* Latvia - 10 calendar days
* Austria - 10 days paid paternity
* Romania - 5 days paid paternity leave
* Hungary - 5 days paternity leave
* Portugal - 5 days paternity
* Belgium - 3 days paid paternity
* Spain - 2 days paternity
* Holland - 2 days paid paternity
* Luxembourg - 2 days paid paternity
* Ireland - NO entitlements to paternity leave

Even the national women's council has been calling for this for the last few years.

http://archives.tcm.ie/irishexaminer/2008/01/12/story52400.asp

Fathers appeal to equality watchdog on paternity leave

A SIGNIFICANT number of new fathers who called the Equality Authority last year were bitterly disappointed to learn they were not entitled to paid paternity leave.

There is no legal entitlement to paternity leave in Ireland, which is at the employer’s discretion.

Ireland has maternity, parental and adoptive leave but, as yet, has no statutory paid paternity leave at the time of a child’s birth.

In Britain, fathers receive two weeks of paid paternity leave, at €145 a week, and the Equality Authority’s British counterpart, the Equal Opportunities Commission, is looking for additional entitlements.

Equality Authority chief executive Niall Crowley said Ireland was out of step with the rest of Europe because workers were not entitled to paid paternity and parental leave. While some employers were offering paid paternity leave as a goodwill gesture, it was not a statutory entitlement.

In the social partnership agreement, Towards 2016, the Government agreed to review the provision of paternity leave before the end of this year.

The Programme for Government published last year promised to examine the possibility of introducing paternity benefit over the next five years.

The National Women’s Council of Ireland said allowing paid paternity leave was crucial in addressing the imbalance relating to parenting and care.

The council’s head of policy, Orla O’Connor, said it would like to see new fathers initially getting a week’s paid paternity leave, which should eventually be increased to four weeks.

The British government-funded Fatherhood Institute has claimed fathers are missing out on spending the equivalent of a month a year with their children because of the country’s long working hours culture.

Mr Crowley said Ireland also had a long working hours culture and most men found it difficult to ask their employers for a more flexible working arrangement out of fear it would be seen as a sign of disloyalty.

In Britain, eight out of 10 fathers regularly work overtime, or unsocial hours, and as a result lose more than 15 hours per week with their children — equivalent to about 32 days each year.

krudler

Its ludicrous that men cant get paid paternity leave, I certainly dont want to only see my kid (whenever I have one) at night after getting home from work, I want to be there for my children.

iptba

I brought this up once with Mervyn Taylor when he was Minister for Equality (can't remember his full title) in the 90s. He made out that the suggestion was somehow anti-feminist. Good that times have changed.

Nevyn

anti feminist?
*boggle*

The days of father's being remote figures in the family are hopefully long gone.
We expect modern Dads to try an dbond with the baby and be hands on and
not just the dad who is the final word or only takes them for a walk to the park on a Sunday. The bonding with a child starts with the hands on caring of a new born.
And this isn't hippy thinking, it's science, it's a measurable chemical process.

Having a baby is not just something which happens to a woman.

http://blogs.wsj.com/juggle/2009/06/19/fathers-day-why-men-are-hard-wired-to-cuddle-their-babies/

As Father’s Day nears, a growing number of new books and articles are asserting that men really aren’t hard-wired for parenting, as reported in The Week.

New research provides evidence that they are. Of course, few topics are more complicated than male-vs.-female brain chemistry, or parenting impulses in general. But the study, by Ruth Feldman, a psychology professor at Bar-Ilan University in Israel and an adjunct assistant professor at Yale University, suggests men are just as well equipped as women to enjoy cuddling their babies.

After measuring 80 couples’ levels of oxytocin — the “cuddle hormone” that supports touching, hugging, holding and trusting others — Dr. Feldman found fathers as well as mothers post increases after childbirth. Oxytocin has a powerful effect on the brain, making people feel less anxious and more calm, trusting and connected.

Oxytocin is usually studied in connection with women and bonding, labor, delivery and breastfeeding. But fathers of newborns actually have oxytocin levels comparable to mothers’, based on Dr. Feldman’s findings, presented at a conference earlier this year. The parents’ levels exceeded those of single men and women who weren’t in romantic relationships, she says, suggesting infant care stimulates the hormone for both parents.

The more the men in the study cuddled their babies, the more their oxytocin levels rose. “It’s like a feedback loop,” Dr. Feldman says. “The more you touch, the more oxytocin you have; the more oxytocin, the more you touch. But you need to initiate this feedback loop, by holding and touching and kissing your baby.” Also, she found a link between the oxytocin levels of partners. Mothers’ levels predicted fathers’ levels later on, “as if fathers somehow get biologically attuned to their wives,” Dr. Feldman says.

Dr. Feldman’s findings might help explain that rush of emotion many men experience upon seeing their babies born and holding them. For some men, the changes start sooner. Armin Brott, an author on fathering, has written about how some dads’ metabolisms seem to change even before the baby is born, showing up as sympathetic pregnancy, also called “couvade” symptoms, marked by mood swings, food cravings and weight gain. The causes aren’t clear, but they may be hormonal, and the symptoms usually disappear after the baby is born, Mr. Brott has written.

Paternity leave becomes more and more important when we look at what is happening to families and communities. First time parents are not as supported as they once were with family and neighbours giving a hand or moving in or popping around as more women
are working and new families are often living far removed from where grandparents live
in houseing estates were they could be the only house with someone home during the day for most of the estate.

With new mothers being discharged with in 48 hours of giving birth at the hospital
they need help and support and Dad's also need time of as, new borns don't sleep so well and the adjustment to having a new born and pitching in and looking after the new Mam and then a work + commute?

Families need paternity leave, and I don't see how that can be an antifeminist statement.

smokingman

My son (first born) was born in November and I was disgusted to find I had no entitlements as a dad, the two "days" aren't actually days - they refer to the two pre-natal courses you can legally attend with also being paid. The legislation is vague on this and most companies allow an hour for each as a result.

Ireland is a backward third world country in this regard and it sickens me.

It really is a disgrace that men are not entitled to even one day paid leave after their baby is born! They are entitled to 3 days in the public sector though.

Parental leave is available to both men and women afaik but it is unpaid leave and men taking this leave is largely frowned upon.

As a matter of interest, how is the leave divided when child is adopted? Is it still only available to the mother?

bridgeman

My baby is just born im a man am I not entitled to any days ofF for the occasion . if not this country is a bigger joke than I thought

iguana

Imo, there should be a two week minimum for new fathers with an option for the mother to transfer part of her maternity leave to the father, if that's what best suits the couple.

I don't know how anyone can be of the opinion that it is anti-feminist. Obviously there is a certain portion of maternity leave that is needed by most mothers as pregnancy, birth and breastfeeding all take a physical toll all the woman's body. But beyond that spending time bonding with the baby and adjusting to the practical demands of a baby are just as necessary for both parents.

Another big benefit of transferable maternity leave to working mothers is that if either parent can take a chunk of time off work it would have a bigger impact on discrimination against women of childbearing age in the workplace than any equality legislation ever could.

CDfm

I misread and thought she was calling for paternity tests for men.

Does she have anything else to say on mens rights and the family etc

The Corinthian

CDfm wrote: »

Does she have anything else to say on mens rights and the family etc

Unfortunately so according to this article (cached version):

But into this moment of hope strode the reactionary size nines of Ivana Bacik (pictured above). Bacik’s contributions to such discussions are usually no worse than vapid, being typical of the contentless prejudice of most liberal discussion in Ireland, which is preoccupied with asserting a pious attachment to causes long won as a means of avoiding anything inconvenient to the fashionable liberal package of ideologies. But, here, at this potentially historic moment, a filibuster would not have sufficed. Oh now, let’s not demonise mothers here, said Ivana, before going on to distort a point Bob Geldof had made about it taking some time for a culture to adjust - Bacik implied that he meant that most fathers will walk away from their children. That’s so much better, Ivana - let’s just get right back to what we like best: demonising fathers.

And let’s remember, said Ivana, that it’s mothers who have been mainly responsible for the care of children. Decoded: everything’s fine the way it is, so let’s stop listening to these whining men (dashed inconvenient that this Geldof guy has got involved here, you’d think he’d stick to the human rights of foreigners) and go back to talking about why there aren’t more women in the European Parliament.

Nobody thought of hitting Ivana with the obvious riposte: yes, and until recently, lawyers and wanna-be politicians tended to be men, so let’s go back to that, eh? The fact that such illogicalities and distortions can go unchallenged in even relatively combative company highlights how easy it has been for reactionary pseudo-liberals to short-circuit any proper discussion of this most fundamental denial of human rights, while disguising the true nature of their chauvinistic obscurantism behind a conventional piety.

Bacik has made a few noises about father's rights in the past, but ultimately appears to have a rather mysandrist attitude towards us in general. It is easy for her to call for paternity leave, because ultimately it simply facilitates assistance to the mother in early care, but does not actually confer any rights to the child.

CDfm

But Ivana is a mother in between been a law professor, politician,practicing barrister, tv persaonality, womens rights activist.

who looks after her kids - not their Dad surely

I wonder.

metrovelvet

CDfm wrote: »

But Ivana is a mother in between been a law professor, politician,practicing barrister, tv persaonality, womens rights activist.

who looks after her kids - not their Dad surely

I wonder.

The nanny?

What about nannie's rights?

The Corinthian

CDfm wrote: »

But Ivana is a mother in between been a law professor, politician,practicing barrister, tv persaonality, womens rights activist.

who looks after her kids - not their Dad surely

One needs to differentiate between rights and responsibilities. Paternity leave, while being on the surface a right, is ultimately only one in so far as it enables a responsibility (child care) but no rights to the child. It's not even a right of access to the child - if a mother blocks access, how is a father going to take paternity leave?

As such it's a political no brainer for someone like Bacik; she looks as if she is promoting father's rights to their children when in reality she's not, while simultaneously calling de facto for more support for mothers.

metrovelvet wrote: »

What about nannie's rights?

Nannies have rights proportional to their responsibilities. Fathers do not.

metrovelvet

I doubt they are talking about paternity leave for single or non co habitating fathers.

The Corinthian

metrovelvet wrote: »

I doubt they are talking about paternity leave for single or non co habitating fathers.

Are you suggesting that a father has to co-habitat or otherwise be in a relationship with the mother to be able (allowed) to care for his child?

metrovelvet

Welll there are complications to things like that like dna tests and establishing paternity and proof to the employer, etc. It sounds like an administrative and legal nightmare tbh. Not to mention a potential emotional and psychological nightmare for the parties involved.

secman

Country on its kness, hardly a priority, jeez how did we survive in the past......... with no paternity leave ! After first few days ........ relieved to get back into work for some peace and quiet !


Secman

The Corinthian

metrovelvet wrote: »

Welll there are complications to things like that like dna tests and establishing paternity and proof to the employer, etc. It sounds like an administrative and legal nightmare tbh. Not to mention a potential emotional and psychological nightmare for the parties involved.

A mother seeking maintenance or a father seeking access can also result in potential emotional and psychological nightmare for the parties involved. Should we disallow those too on the same basis?

The Corinthian

secman wrote: »

Country on its kness, hardly a priority, jeez how did we survive in the past......... with no paternity leave !

By forcing women to give up their jobs and become full-time mothers.

Are you suggesting we return to that?

metrovelvet

The Corinthian wrote: »

A mother seeking maintenance or a father seeking access can also result in potential emotional and psychological nightmare for the parties involved. Should we disallow those too on the same basis?

How are you going to take up paternity leave before paternity is established? How are you going to force yourself into a mothers home when she's just had a newborn? How are you going to convinve an employer you are a father until the dna test results have been submitted? None of these issues apply to married men because legally they are responsible for the children.

The Corinthian

metrovelvet wrote: »

How are you going to take up paternity leave before paternity is established?

I'm not. You establish paternity.

How are you going to force yourself into a mothers home when she's just had a newborn?

Is the child not allowed outside of the mother's home?

None of these issues apply to married men because legally they are responsible for the children.

Are unmarried fathers not responsible for their children? That's a new one.

Macha

The Corinthian wrote: »

Are unmarried fathers not responsible for their children? That's a new one.

Actually when a child is born outside of marriage in Ireland, the mother is the sole guardian from a legal point of view. Totally ridiculous, of course.

metrovelvet

taconnol wrote: »

Actually when a child is born outside of marriage in Ireland, the mother is the sole guardian from a legal point of view. Totally ridiculous, of course.

Its the same in the US until paternity is established. This doesnt have to be done by a dna test, the two parties can sign an affadavit.

How do you suggest it be worked out then?

metrovelvet

The Corinthian wrote: »

I'm not. You establish paternity.

Is the child not allowed outside of the mother's home?

Are unmarried fathers not responsible for their children? That's a new one.

Right. So how can paternity be established without the father doing it?

You want to take a newborn away from its breastfeeding? What you want a court order for her to pump her milk and hand it over?

No unmarried fathers are not responsible for their children until it has been established they are fathers.

Establish the rights if you want but they are impossible to practise.

The Corinthian

taconnol wrote: »

Actually when a child is born outside of marriage in Ireland, the mother is the sole guardian from a legal point of view. Totally ridiculous, of course.

That does not imply that the unmarried father has no responsibilities. At the very least he is liable for maintenance and maternity expenses.

In reality there's not much point to arguing with Metro on this as she's actually proven my earlier point. Paternity leave is ultimately a right only if 'given' by the mother. DNA tests are a red herring, frankly, as even if paternity were established, even if married and separated at the time of birth, it is still only a right that can be exercised if not vetoed by the mother.

And that's why it is so easy for someone like Bacik to support.

Macha

metrovelvet wrote: »

Its the same in the US until paternity is established. This doesnt have to be done by a dna test, the two parties can sign an affadavit.

I just find it weird that we assume no married women cheat - it's perfectly possible that many children of married couples today have a different father than they think they do.

metrovelvet

The Corinthian wrote: »

That does not imply that the unmarried father has no responsibilities. At the very least he is liable for maintenance and maternity expenses.

In reality there's not much point to arguing with Metro on this as she's actually proven my earlier point. Paternity leave is ultimately a right only if 'given' by the mother. DNA tests are a red herring, frankly, as even if paternity were established, even if married and separated at the time of birth, it is still only a right that can be exercised if not vetoed by the mother.

And that's why it is so easy for someone like Bacik to support.

Eh eh. Only if given by the single mother. The married men have it. It can be applied in practise.

Macha

The Corinthian wrote: »

That does not imply that the unmarried father has no responsibilities. At the very least he is liable for maintenance and maternity expenses.

Oh no, I wasn't saying he didn't have any responsibilities. But from a legal point of view, the mother has far more responsibilities. Maintenance and maternity expenses is just money at the end of the day versus the millions of other aspects to raising a child. What are the figures for unmarried fathers not paying maintenance etc? Is it lower than generally believed?

The Corinthian wrote: »

In reality there's not much point to arguing with Metro on this as she's actually proven my earlier point. Paternity leave is ultimately a right only if 'given' by the mother. DNA tests are a red herring, frankly, as even if paternity were established, even if married and separated at the time of birth, it is still only a right that can be exercised if not vetoed by the mother.

So what is your solution? That an unmarried father should be able to unilaterally claim paternity without a DNA test?

metrovelvet

taconnol wrote: »

I just find it weird that we assume no married women cheat - it's perfectly possible that many children of married couples today have a different father than they think they do.

Everyone I know who cheats has been married so I tend to agree with you there. But I think the law sees things differently.But what are you going to do, have state enforced dna tests on everyone before names go down on the birth cert?

The Corinthian

metrovelvet wrote: »

Eh eh. Only if given by the single mother. The married men have it. It can be applied in practise.

But you said:

metrovelvet wrote: »

How are you going to force yourself into a mothers home when she's just had a newborn?

They're separated, remember?

metrovelvet

The Corinthian wrote: »

But you said:

They're separated, remember?

OK Im lost. Lost the train or got on the wrong one.

The Corinthian

taconnol wrote: »

Oh no, I wasn't saying he didn't have any responsibilities. But from a legal point of view, the mother has far more responsibilities. Maintenance and maternity expenses is just money at the end of the day versus the millions of other aspects to raising a child. What are the figures for unmarried fathers not paying maintenance etc? Is it lower than generally believed?

No one is suggesting that mothers do not have the vast bulk of the responsibility. However they do not have all of the responsibility, yet have all of the de facto (and de jure if unmarried) rights.

Paternity leave, without rights, thus sounds like an attempt to partially balance out responsibility without doing the same for rights, and that really is a bit insulting, to say the least.

So what is your solution? That an unmarried father should be able to unilaterally claim paternity without a DNA test?

I've never suggested this. The reality is that even where paternity was not disputed, it would make no difference. Even if legally married, it would make no difference.

Once the parents are neither co-habiting or in a relationship, the father's ability to exercise any 'right' to paternal leave are entirely dependant upon the permission of the mother.

Macha

The Corinthian wrote: »

No one is suggesting that mothers do not have the vast bulk of the responsibility. However they do not have all of the responsibility, yet have all of the de facto (and de jure if unmarried) rights.

Good point.

The Corinthian wrote: »

Paternity leave, without rights, thus sounds like an attempt to partially balance out responsibility without doing the same for rights, and that really is a bit insulting, to say the least.

Paternity leave is being discussed for both married and unmarried fathers. Married fathers do enjoy rights.

The Corinthian wrote: »

I've never suggested this. The reality is that even where paternity was not disputed, it would make no difference. Even if legally married, it would make no difference.

What? even if legally married the father has no automatic rights?

The Corinthian wrote: »

Once the parents are neither co-habiting or in a relationship, the father's ability to exercise any 'right' to paternal leave are entirely dependant upon the permission of the mother.

So, again, what is your solution?

The Corinthian

metrovelvet wrote: »

OK Im lost. Lost the train or got on the wrong one.

I'm just point out that married or not, it is ultimately dependant on the mother's choice. A married man is in much the same position as an unmarried one (where there is no dispute on paternity) if he has split from his wife.

If blocked he would have to sue for access (waiting weeks or months before getting this), which then could easily ignored, even if granted, as it has never been enforced in Ireland.

metrovelvet

The Corinthian wrote: »

I'm just point out that married or not, it is ultimately dependant on the mother's choice. A married man is in much the same position as an unmarried one (where there is no dispute on paternity) if he has split from his wife.

If blocked he would have to sue for access (waiting weeks or months before getting this), which then could easily ignored, even if granted, as it has never been enforced in Ireland.

So what's your solution?

The Corinthian

taconnol wrote: »

Paternity leave is being discussed for both married and unmarried fathers. Married fathers do enjoy rights.

Limited rights, that are not enforced - as per my last post.

So, again, what is your solution?

If you want to share responsibility, then share rights. Don't offer one without the other.

Enforcement would be a good thing too.

metrovelvet

The Corinthian wrote: »

Limited rights, that are not enforced - as per my last post.

If you want to share responsibility, then share rights. Don't offer one without the other.

Enforcement would be a good thing too.

You could do what they do in the US. You are entitled to 0 weeks paid parental leave but but either parent entitled to 12 weeks unpaid. Equal enough for you?

CDfm

I always have a problem with some of this stuff because the concepts are fairly abstract.

So my key responsibility in life is me( or so Maslow tells me) so I need food shelter etc before I go about the job of being a provider.

Now all this third wave feminism and post positivism sociology means little to me.

What I dont like about Baciks stance is that I work for money to live and try to be a good person and a productive member of society, pay my maintenance etc.

Here is where it gets weird for me. My motivations and why I work etc ....provide for kids....... now disconnect child contact from the mix and it does not make sense. Thats just me. I can read all the theories but it would have little meaning.

Now I have access but if I didnt and the children were a blur in the rear view mirror - providing for them would make little sense. You cant interact with a memory.

metrovelvet

CDfm wrote: »

I always have a problem with some of this stuff because the concepts are fairly abstract.

So my key responsibility in life is me( or so Maslow tells me) so I need food shelter etc before I go about the job of being a provider.

Now all this third wave feminism and post positivism sociology means little to me.

What I dont like about Baciks stance is that I work for money to live and try to be a good person and a productive member of society, pay my maintenance etc.

Here is where it gets weird for me. My motivations and why I work etc ....provide for kids....... now disconnect child contact from the mix and it does not make sense. Thats just me. I can read all the theories but it would have little meaning.

Now I have access but if I didnt and the children were a blur in the rear view mirror - providing for them would make little sense. You cant interact with a memory.

I think studies have been done where the father correlates, subconciously or not his maintenance/child support with his contact- in other words the more on sight he is the more he is likely to contribute for exactly the reasons you mention- the child is real, the expenses are real, and he is not living in a world of theoretical fatherhood.

r3nu4l

Just a note on the UK figures posted by Thaedydal:

UK - 2 weeks paid paternity (from 2003)

What that doesn't say is that it's 2 weeks paid leave or £190 per week, whichever is lower.

So if I was to take 'paternity' leave it would be for £190 a week and I just cannot afford that reduction in pay as with so many fathers in the UK. A recent discussion on BBC radio 4 stated that over 90% of men in the UK don't take their paternity entitlements. So in reality, this 'entitlement' is only there in name.

While it is at least a gesture, it's not much of one and therefore I'd seriously call into question the 'practical accuracy' of the figures posted in that particular table.

r3nu4l

r3nu4l wrote: »

Just a note on the UK figures posted by Thaedydal:

What that doesn't say is that it's 2 weeks paid leave or £190 per week, whichever is lower.

So if I was to take 'paternity' leave it would be for £190 a week and I just cannot afford that reduction in pay as with so many fathers in the UK. A recent discussion on BBC radio 4 stated that over 90% of men in the UK don't take their paternity entitlements. So in reality, this 'entitlement' is only there in name.

While it is at least a gesture, it's not much of one and therefore I'd seriously call into question the 'practical accuracy' of the figures posted in that particular table.

Maternity Benefit in Ireland isn't all that much better to be fair, unless you work for a generous company who pay you in full for your maternity leave, you are only entitled to a maximum amount of €280 a week (min is €230) and I think you have to take a minimum of six weeks leave (I'm open to correction on this). At least in the UK, the option is there for the father, and, if the mother happens to work for one of those nice companies that pay her full salary, it's very likely that it's a good option.

I'm not complaining about the rate of maternity benefit by the way!

r3nu4l

Deleted User wrote: »

Maternity Benefit in Ireland isn't all that much better to be fair, unless you work for a generous company who pay you in full for your maternity leave, you are only entitled to a maximum amount of €280 a week (min is €230) and I think you have to take a minimum of six weeks leave (I'm open to correction on this). At least in the UK, the option is there for the father, and, if the mother happens to work for one of those nice companies that pay her full salary, it's very likely that it's a good option.

I'm not complaining about the rate of maternity benefit by the way!

I see your point but the reality is that 90% of men do not take this leave because they cannot afford to. It's that simple. I'm one of them, I should know My wife is getting three months fully paid maternity leave but we still cannot afford for me to take this leave. I think what we should really be fighting for is better and equal parental leave for ALL parents.

Now if I was getting my full salary for two weeks then that would be brilliant! Still not equal to what my wife is getting but at least a it would be a great start.

metrovelvet

I know in the US where NO ONE is entitled to paid parental leave people save up their vacation time. Can you do that?

r3nu4l

metrovelvet wrote: »

I know in the US where NO ONE is entitled to paid parental leave people save up their vacation time. Can you do that?

Different companies in the UK allow different things. E.g. I'm not allowed to carry over any unused days from the previous year. So for me it's 'Don't use em, then you lose em'

What I will be doing is just taking two weeks from my regular holidays and that will have to do.

r3nu4l

r3nu4l wrote: »

I see your point but the reality is that 90% of men do not take this leave because they cannot afford to. It's that simple. .

Out of interest, in the UK, is it your wife's company who cover the cost of her leave or is it the government?

r3nu4l

Deleted User wrote: »

Out of interest, in the UK, is it your wife's company who cover the cost of her leave or is it the government?

It''s not the Government. Either way, this thread isn't about me It's really about the fact that while materntiy leave is not exactly great, it sure beats the hell out of paternity leave and that's pretty standard in a LOT of countries.