Zero Grazing

F.D

Hi Just wondering is anyone using a zero grazing machine or whats peoples opionons,
and as a means to increase herd size would it work, say for example if you were grazing a cow per acre with a normal system,
how many cows per acre could you carry if you were feeding indoors and zerograzing?

irishh_bob

i think its a fantastic concept which provides great options for those on fragmented farms and who wish to continue with high yielding cows while utilising grass to its full potential

F.D

irishh_bob wrote: »

i think its a fantastic concept which provides great options for those on fragmented farms and who wish to continue with high yielding cows while utilising grass to its full potential

Thats why i'm just wondering about it my self i'm not one of the lucky ones to have a hugh number of acres in one block, there would want to be getting good returns from one when you could be spending around 30k to get one

sundrez

Suppose it depends on the type of ground your on, the length of grazing season etc. would you be able to get out with a machine early/late in year? Where you thinking of housing cattle all year round? if so, fertiliser use would increase when mowing all the time and also capacity of tanks could be an issue?

F.D

sundrez wrote: »

Suppose it depends on the type of ground your on, the length of grazing season etc. would you be able to get out with a machine early/late in year? Where you thinking of housing cattle all year round? if so, fertiliser use would increase when mowing all the time and also capacity of tanks could be an issue?

It would be good ground, and hopefully it would extend the grazing season, no i wasnt thinking of housing the cattle all year round just as a means to increase numbers, maybe out grazing by day and housed by night, i know slurry storage would be an issue but surly it would have a positive effect by using this to replace fertilizer, putting out a few loads on each block that has been cut for example, i suppose injection would be required so it wouldnt taint the grass maybe?

BeeDI

F.D wrote: »

Hi Just wondering is anyone using a zero grazing machine or whats peoples opionons,
and as a means to increase herd size would it work, say for example if you were grazing a cow per acre with a normal system,
how many cows per acre could you carry if you were feeding indoors and zerograzing?

Cant ever see the Tesco's and Dunne's and Aldi's of this world, ever paying enoughg money per unit of output of any farm product, to ever justify bringing grass into cattle when they can go get it for themselves.

There is a billion and one ways to increase cost on farm, through fixed cost investment, buildings, machinery etc,.
At the point where the farmer sells his product, he is generally faced with buyers who do not compete with each other :mad:
You get the same LOW price for milk or beef give or take nothing where ever you go.
Bringing in fresh grass to the cow has to be cost increase method number one billion and two, in my estimate.

dunsandin

I worked on a dairy farm in Germany in the late 80's and they zero grazed, mowed and then picked up with a forage wagon, single chopped. It was a lot of work each day, but the efficency in terms of grass and land utilisation and milk output was amazing. But it was a lot of hard work, 5am starts with the mower and forager, but no wasted grassland, beautiful fast regrowth, and allowed excellent management of the acres. Quite a small acreage supported a large dairy enterprise.(But a LOT of hard work)

sundrez

F.D wrote: »

It would be good ground, and hopefully it would extend the grazing season, no i wasnt thinking of housing the cattle all year round just as a means to increase numbers, maybe out grazing by day and housed by night, i know slurry storage would be an issue but surly it would have a positive effect by using this to replace fertilizer, putting out a few loads on each block that has been cut for example, i suppose injection would be required so it wouldnt taint the grass maybe?

If its good ground it would extend the grazing season alright..and as mentioned above it would significantly increase both grass growth potential, utilization and quality! slurry would be a good substitute for fertiliser alright, at the right time of year.. it has plenty of P and K but might be a bit slack on N if the ground is being cut all the time. Ya injection would probably be the way to go. I seen a few trailing shoe jobs last year and wasn't that impressed at all when you compare to the shallow injection! Iv seen some publications saying you can get up to 20% more grass from zero grazing which sounds fairly healthy!

F.D

dunsandin wrote: »

I worked on a dairy farm in Germany in the late 80's and they zero grazed, mowed and then picked up with a forage wagon, single chopped. It was a lot of work each day, but the efficency in terms of grass and land utilisation and milk output was amazing. But it was a lot of hard work, 5am starts with the mower and forager, but no wasted grassland, beautiful fast regrowth, and allowed excellent management of the acres. Quite a small acreage supported a large dairy enterprise.(But a LOT of hard work)

Thanks for the info, i suppose the ideal setup would be a robotic milking machine and the hour you save from milking would be spend getting in the grass, i like the fact a small acerage supported a bigger herd, which is where the biggest problem is for us the size of the grazing block around the farm yard, i see in the farmers journal this week a man is using a dedicated machine which would save time on mowing then picking up but you would need good returns to pay for it

F.D

sundrez wrote: »

If its good ground it would extend the grazing season alright..and as mentioned above it would significantly increase both grass growth potential, utilization and quality! slurry would be a good substitute for fertiliser alright, at the right time of year.. it has plenty of P and K but might be a bit slack on N if the ground is being cut all the time. Ya injection would probably be the way to go. I seen a few trailing shoe jobs last year and wasn't that impressed at all when you compare to the shallow injection! Iv seen some publications saying you can get up to 20% more grass from zero grazing which sounds fairly healthy!

20% more grass wouldn't be too bad, havent seen any contractors around here with the injection system yet, and i know i would't be able to afford it but looking at the journal the man in monaghan seems to be getting on ok with the splash plate by spreading at the right time, plus we have a small tanker which would be ideal for just getting out a load or two on the strips freshly cut, I know there is a higher cost to all these things so sums would have to be done to see do the benifits out weigh them

snowman707

good article in this week's Journal

irishh_bob

not sure why posters think the trailing show would be nesscesery within a zero grazing system , would have thought the opposite was the case , afterall , the ground would be mowed clean so no grass to soil when slurry spreading

F.D

irishh_bob wrote: »

not sure why posters think the trailing show would be nesscesery within a zero grazing system , would have thought the opposite was the case , afterall , the ground would be mowed clean so no grass to soil when slurry spreading

wouldn't have thought it would be like you say you would be cutting the grass low enough, but havin said that i don't think you skin it like you do with silage so maybe there would be some contamination
wonder what is the cycle between cuttings would it be the same as grazing paddocks or a bit longer

dunsandin

Where I was they used to skin it with a disc mower and it got slurry as soon as a sufficently wide strip was mown(1 2m strip of the field used to feed the cows for a day) - the biggest job was doling the cut grass out to the cows, and there was no robot, the cows were tethered and milked with a single head milking unit - very labour intensive, but they certainly made money - they had a standard of living farmers here in ireland could only dream of - the big house, a couple of mercs in the drive, but by g. they worked hard - 5am starts 7 days, very very low tech, but very well mechanised - a fleet(8)of IH 4wd tractors and all the latest tackle. Every year without fail a new shed went up, wether a grain store or a calf house. I am not sure I would fancy the hard graft that was involved day in and day out, but it worked well for them. they had just an ordinary slurry spreader, and a side slinger muck spreader that they used to spread the solids that were hand forked to the midden twice daily. All the women worked at the milking and the mucking etc, as well as the men, it was a real family enterprise, and they did (and still do) well at it, but it was a big commitment.

F.D

dunsandin wrote: »

Where I was they used to skin it with a disc mower and it got slurry as soon as a sufficently wide strip was mown(1 2m strip of the field used to feed the cows for a day) - the biggest job was doling the cut grass out to the cows, and there was no robot, the cows were tethered and milked with a single head milking unit - very labour intensive, but they certainly made money - they had a standard of living farmers here in ireland could only dream of - the big house, a couple of mercs in the drive, but by g. they worked hard - 5am starts 7 days, very very low tech, but very well mechanised - a fleet(8)of IH 4wd tractors and all the latest tackle. Every year without fail a new shed went up, wether a grain store or a calf house. I am not sure I would fancy the hard graft that was involved day in and day out, but it worked well for them. they had just an ordinary slurry spreader, and a side slinger muck spreader that they used to spread the solids that were hand forked to the midden twice daily. All the women worked at the milking and the mucking etc, as well as the men, it was a real family enterprise, and they did (and still do) well at it, but it was a big commitment.

I presume the cows were housed all year round, by reading this if the set up was correct it wouldnt be too labour intensive, was there much waste on the grass that was brought in or would it be all eaten

pajero12

Buy an auld single chop and one of those muck spreaders with the moving floor and take off the beaters....sorted

dunsandin

F.D wrote: »

I presume the cows were housed all year round, by reading this if the set up was correct it wouldnt be too labour intensive, was there much waste on the grass that was brought in or would it be all eaten

No waste whatsoever - all eaten, and yes, it could be done in a much less labour intensive manner. The cows were housed all year, and were totally tame- much like pedigrees would be here. The other side was that they used no arti fert at all, just dung and slurry, and the grass was full of flowers and stuff - pretty much organic if you like.

Pacoa

Have ya thought about maize cause it seems to me it'd be a lot easier to just build a pit and fill it with maize for buffer feeding during the summer. Fill the pit once and it's there in the yard. No running up and down the road everyday to get grass. 30 grand is a lot to put into a machine that you'll only get 10 years out whereas a pit could last 20, and theres the wear and tear on the tractor, and the extra hours on it, diesel etc.

F.D

Pacoa wrote: »

Have ya thought about maize cause it seems to me it'd be a lot easier to just build a pit and fill it with maize for buffer feeding during the summer. Fill the pit once and it's there in the yard. No running up and down the road everyday to get grass. 30 grand is a lot to put into a machine that you'll only get 10 years out whereas a pit could last 20, and theres the wear and tear on the tractor, and the extra hours on it, diesel etc.

Never grown maize so i dont know how much it would cost to grow and harvest i thought it would be more expensive, but i suppose the feed value would be a lot higher, towards growing grass and bringing that into them, i agree with you on the machine price and the costs of running it probably take a lot of running up and down the field to fill the wagon too more time wasted.
Would maize last in the pit if you were to hold it over the winter and feed it the following summer. or does it go off so to speak?

Pacoa

Would maize last in the pit if you were to hold it over the winter and feed it the following summer. or does it go off so to speak?

Yeah that would be the problem with it. Maize does heat so you'd probably need a couple of small pits or one long one might work.

redsdeadbaby

just a reply to info on zero grazing. My neighbour has been zero grazing for this last 3 years. MF 390 2wd 1990. The machine cost €20k one of the smaller types. Grazes by day in by night. The concept has changed his life his cows life, positives all round. He is milking 50 cows machine paid for within 1 year. Has cut costs left right and centre. It might not suit everyone but for him its super.

Pacoa

20 grand in one year? I guess he must have cut out ration completely.
My cousin has one that he bought for around 25k. I asked him recently if he was zero grazing these days and he said no, he's got nothing to cut :-o

Was looking at them on the internet last night and came on this http://www.foddersolutions.org

Might be a better investment?

redsdeadbaby

I'm new to boards written this reply twice now:mad:

Checked out fodder solutions, looks excellant I wonder what teagasc would say! They told my neighbour to build a 2nd parlour road ways fencing etc about €60k and milk more cows move herds around when short on grass at either farm. He bought the machine adviser lost the plot

€20k made on 220 days of grass to over 300. meal 1000kg plus to 300kg less silage less fertiliser. His own calculations not profit monitor so it could be on the high side. His accountant thinks theres nothing like it, save money and make money everytime you cut a load of grass! He also cut for his neighbours last may for two weeks when cows were in due to bad weather. Lifted a few €k there. Made no bales because any strong grass he put in the pit about 4 - 5 acres a go. Saved about 100 bales over the season which the contractor would have made.

F.D

redsdeadbaby wrote: »

just a reply to info on zero grazing. My neighbour has been zero grazing for this last 3 years. MF 390 2wd 1990. The machine cost €20k one of the smaller types. Grazes by day in by night. The concept has changed his life his cows life, positives all round. He is milking 50 cows machine paid for within 1 year. Has cut costs left right and centre. It might not suit everyone but for him its super.

How many acres is he milking his 50 cows on with this system?
or did it allow him to increase his numbers on a smaller parcel of land, Just wondering what his reason for buying one other than the savings you highlighted

redsdeadbaby

Was milking 40 now milks 50 because he opened up all the farm for his cows. Fairly fragmented and had to walk cows on the road during the day, grazed at night on land close to sheds. Walking the road was never a problem 45 mins each way but then the road started to get busy and was having too many complaints. Had 32 acres available to graze but I reckon he has about 90 in total.

Got out of cattle was keeping all the calves and finishing them on another outside block 2 mile away. All this is now available for cows when he wants it. Dont think he wants to milk many more happy enough at current numbers. Doubt he has any borrowings and the type of place that always ran a tight ship. Says with reseeding and some Italian rye he'll cut all year round! ? I actually think he'll do it. Four years ago I would have told him get help! Humble pie for me.

I visited a few places with him before buying and all the farmers said it was unreal what they were getting out of an acre of ground, compared to grazing. One guy said the sales man said all this stuff, some of it you would nt believe ( would sell snow at north pole) every bit of it was true. My neighbour keeps in touch with him all the time says the advice is so basic but its things you would not think of yourself, reckons he god. Met him at the ploughing looks a bit like god! long hair etc. Check out the website an old ford 66 cutting it must be 35 years old, looks the part!

know_how

That's all really interesting about zero-grazing. I've read that efficiency of up to 30% can be acheived, but reading a report by the Dept of Ag and Rural Development, you have to think really carefully about the extra investment required as on a 15-year depreciation model you actually lose money. See http://www.ruralni.gov.uk/technote16_dpdb.pdf

denis086

Theres only 1 farm around here with one and ive have been down a few times working and it seems like it suits their set up but there is 2 tractors tied up constantly on the zero grazer and pushing in which isnt ideal in busy periods they wer running off in the middle of silage to do it and its like winter the whole year mats have to be scraped lots more problems with mastitis from what i heard too. it also takes up a fair amount of time to do once its pushed in and all the jobs in relation to having cows indoors have been done. Its a little over €30,000 for a standard specced but one of the higher capacity machines.
i think the extra cost of wear, diesel, and contractors. Its not just wear on the machines automatic scrapers etc and if your going to support the machine are you comited to up scaling in the long run and once everything is being paid for are you better off or just have more work and under more pressure?

know_how

denis086 wrote: »

Theres only 1 farm around here with one and ive have been down a few times working and it seems like it suits their set up but there is 2 tractors tied up constantly on the zero grazer and pushing in which isnt ideal in busy periods they wer running off in the middle of silage to do it and its like winter the whole year mats have to be scraped lots more problems with mastitis from what i heard too. it also takes up a fair amount of time to do once its pushed in and all the jobs in relation to having cows indoors have been done. Its a little over €30,000 for a standard specced but one of the higher capacity machines.
i think the extra cost of wear, diesel, and contractors. Its not just wear on the machines automatic scrapers etc and if your going to support the machine are you comited to up scaling in the long run and once everything is being paid for are you better off or just have more work and under more pressure?

Yeah! and who wants to work harder
I think it's just for those that are in a very specific position: you're tight on land; the land is split; you´ve already got most of the machinery; and you´re prepared for the extra effort.
I know I wouldn´t have time for it..!;)

F.D

i think it depends on what your trying to achieve with the system you have, if you are going to comit to increasing production be it zerograzing or through extra forage, fair enough there is depreciation on the zerograzer but then if you are going to be paying a contractor to harvest the extra forage to buffer feed these cows/cattle you have to weigh up which costs more, at the end of the day if you are buffer feeding the machinery is tied up to a certain extent anyway. even certain years feeding more concentrates could be more viable depending on price, but the one constant with a zero grazing is every farmer can grow grass and you know the repayments !

tismesoitis

any up dates on opinions of the zero grazing system? This weather would leave you open minded!!

pajero12

tismesoitis wrote: »

any up dates on opinions of the zero grazing system? This weather would leave you open minded!!

Don't know about your area but there's not much to 0-Graze here yet?

tismesoitis

plenty of grass but the utilisation would be crap if we let them out ground would poach to bits!!!

tabby aspreme

Two lads near me zero grazing and regrowth is very good , much better than grazed ground, plenty of slurry and fert applied early on the ground

RobertKK

Zero grazing was featured on RTE's countrywide program this morning.

I think with quotas going and with land fragmentation, this will become more popular.
They are expensive though, they said on the program this morning that entry level is at €18k and goes upto €65k for the top of the range model.
The guy on the program claimed one farmer increased milk output per day by 750 litres a day and it made him €233 per day extra after the expense of diesel.

bob charles

RobertKK wrote: »

Zero grazing was featured on RTE's countrywide program this morning.

I think with quotas going and with land fragmentation, this will become more popular.
They are expensive though, they said on the program this morning that entry level is at €18k and goes upto €65k for the top of the range model.
The guy on the program claimed one farmer increased milk output per day by 750 litres a day and it made him €233 per day extra after the expense of diesel.

over how many cows and I wonder was this the only change. cost allot to zero graze an acre of grass in front of a cow/beef, also include the cost of the slurry you have to spread after her.

delaval

Did it for all the 90's and still have the tee shirt.

I would get out if cows or put them in full time in bought feed before I'd do it again.

Mulumpy

Lad in our group has a zero grazer. Most of his land a mile away and was sick of walking the cows on the road. He draws them grass to feed after milking in the shed then lets out to rationed grass around the parlour. Says tis labour some but that anything is better than what he was at.

TEAT SQUEEZER

there must be some good figures on here about a zero grazing system..(you know who and yer man:D step forward pls) is it too simple a view that its gotta be the next cheapest option to grazing outright?... i`m thinking used as a buffer to grazing cattle/cows and not as an total indoor system etc........

Timmaay

A 2nd parlour in the outfarm would sound like an easier option in my view, the extra capital cost of the parlour should balance out with the extra running cost of the zg, but without the extra time spent at the zg every day.

TEAT SQUEEZER

Timmaay wrote: »

A 2nd parlour in the outfarm would sound like an easier option in my view, the extra capital cost of the parlour should balance out with the extra running cost of the zg, but without the extra time spent at the zg every day.

whatever happened to just leaning back in the seat and enjoying the ride, smiling and waving at the girls as you go on your merry way...:D

there must be someone who zero grazes on here or who has costed and rejected the idea .. their opinions would be of greatvalue imo

loveta

delaval wrote: »

Did it for all the 90's and still have the tee shirt.

I would get out if cows or put them in full time in bought feed before I'd do it again.

Why so anti them delaval??
Or why would you rather cows in on bought feeds than cheap grass??

delaval

loveta wrote: »

Why so anti them delaval??
Or why would you rather cows in on bought feeds than cheap grass??

A good idea but back then it was a mower and forage wagon. Wagons weren't as far on as today and certainly didn't carry enough. In real amount of driving to be done.
Milk, go for grass, breakfast, take out slurry,fert, milk, sleep it was relentless . It just ate time. I recon round baling and feeding back out would be a better option and higher DM grub. Parlour on other block is the answer if block was big enough.

bob charles

delaval wrote: »

A good idea but back then it was a mower and forage wagon. Wagons weren't as far on as today and certainly didn't carry enough. In real amount of driving to be done.
Milk, go for grass, breakfast, take out slurry,fert, milk, sleep it was relentless . It just ate time. I recon round baling and feeding back out would be a better option and higher DM grub. Parlour on other block is the answer if block was big enough.

there is a dark past to you lad has it taking much counseling to get over it?

grazeaway

delaval wrote: »

A good idea but back then it was a mower and forage wagon. Wagons weren't as far on as today and certainly didn't carry enough. In real amount of driving to be done.
Milk, go for grass, breakfast, take out slurry,fert, milk, sleep it was relentless . It just ate time. I recon round baling and feeding back out would be a better option and higher DM grub. Parlour on other block is the answer if block was big enough.

Did you have to mow 1st then pick in up in a silage wagon? If so would a tractor with a front linkage and front mounted mower been a better option.

jersey101

delaval wrote: »

A good idea but back then it was a mower and forage wagon. Wagons weren't as far on as today and certainly didn't carry enough. In real amount of driving to be done.
Milk, go for grass, breakfast, take out slurry,fert, milk, sleep it was relentless . It just ate time. I recon round baling and feeding back out would be a better option and higher DM grub. Parlour on other block is the answer if block was big enough.

would the bales not start to heat if they werent used up quick enough. I think there would be more work in that method as you have to mow bale draw and feed out the bales. The idea of zero grazing is to not damage the grass is it not?

delaval

jersey101 wrote: »

would the bales not start to heat if they werent used up quick enough. I think there would be more work in that method as you have to mow bale draw and feed out the bales. The idea of zero grazing is to not damage the grass is it not?

Wrap them and feed as silage

delaval

grazeaway wrote: »

Did you have to mow 1st then pick in up in a silage wagon? If so would a tractor with a front linkage and front mounted mower been a better option.

I hadn't the price of the diesel at the time and was lucky to have a front loader:):)

jersey101

delaval wrote: »

Wrap them and feed as silage

ah i get what ye mean now. If ye can wrap good grass can be as good as meal

delaval

bob charles wrote: »

there is a dark past to you lad has it taking much counseling to get over it?

Are you only noticing that now:P:P

grazeaway

delaval wrote: »

Wrap them and feed as silage

The in laws do this on the continent but they have a bale feeder, they load in a couple of bales at a time, the machine runs on a timer and feeds along the passage at regular time.

I know a lad that used zero grazing last summer cos of the weather. He used an old silage harvester and filled the trailer every day and dropped silage in front of the feed barrier and pushed it in with the loader. He did it again this spring. Doesn't reckon it would suit him long term to do full zero grazing but will defo pull out his silage harvester and trailer again when the weather gets sh*t again.

Timmaay

In terms of zg in bad weather, on my land anyways I'd certainly take my chances with on/off stripgrazing than zg it, heavy machinery is still going to do alot of damage surely?, esp on fields with shallow clay drains.