Superman Returns, why did it fail?

Simian!

What's even more annoying than not really knowing the status of the whole Superman project is the fact that people keep calling him Supes

Kess73

Sticky Romance wrote: »

What's even more annoying than not really knowing the status of the whole Superman project is the fact that people keep calling him Supes

Could be worse, I could be calling him Big Blue or Boyscout.

Sleazus

Sticky Romance wrote: »

What's even more annoying than not really knowing the status of the whole Superman project is the fact that people keep calling him Supes

The Man of Tomorrow? Man of Steel? We'd call him Kal-El, but you might get him confused withe Nicolas Cage's son (I wish I were kidding).

So many choices.

jaykhunter

Kess73 wrote: »

Could be worse, I could be calling him Big Blue or Boyscout.

You're my boy, blue! I thought about saying CK but i reckon most people wouldn't immediately guess Clarke Kent

Sleazus

Kess73 wrote: »

Yeah all versions of Brainiac (bloody shame as there were some that may have worked well) and Zod ( seems it was the Russian version of Zod that was looked at and not the Zod from Krypton) were ruled out.

I would love see Darkseid down the line, but only if you can get Michael Ironside to voice him again.

I do think they'll stay relatively close to earth, at least for the first one. I'd love to see Metallo as a baddy, just because he's the kinda sci-fi audiences will accept before moving on to the rest of the rogues. Plus, being a mind of a dead guy inside a robot, he's kinda "the man of tomorrow" in his own way (though so is Henshaw - though I associate him more with the Green Lantern now thanks to Geoff Johns).

I'm actually quite impressed that we are talking about a new Superman movie - let alone with this degree of enthusiasm.

timetogetfit

L31mr0d wrote: »

He's some Alien bloke that has come down to Earth and acts as judge and jury following his set of moral codes to punish and stop those that he sees as evil. If he didn't look human nobody would stand for it.

I dont get what your trying to say,none of what you said is true actually, what he sees as evil is what everyone sees as evil, and he only catches them he doesnt punish them

Klingon Hamlet

It wanted to be an homage, a reboot, all in one.

It wanted to re-incarnate Reeves' Superman with a superficially perfect recreation via Brandon Routh, but it was spiritless and boring acting on his part.

Spacey created a new, more cruel, slicker and altogether more menacing version of Luther, i.e. not Hackman-like at all.

Lois was unlikeable, the illegitmate child subplot was uninteresting and creepifying and turned Superman into an absentee father.

There were no cool superweapons, no catchy one-liners, no mano a mano scenes where kids cheered and adults smiled. It was empty, shallow, and pointless.

The only thing I could think was that the lady who played Luther's sidekick (can;t recall her name---she was in the brake-less car) would've made a perfect Lois. Spunky and with a resemblance to Margot Kidder.

Roll on the Real Reboot. Not to replace Reeves Superman films, but to introduce a new and interesting rendition.

opinion guy

But Lois was always unlikable.

I think the absentee father thing was their way to give supes a weakness no?

Klingon Hamlet

opinion guy wrote: »

But Lois was always unlikable.

I think the absentee father thing was their way to give supes a weakness no?

Superman was always an outsider, always questioning his own place in society, and always unable to surrender his true self to anyone but Lois (and even then had to wipe her memory and be alone again). He was riddled with weaknesses, never mind Kryptonite.

Saying he fathered a child and effed off to Krypton just to make sure it was really gone made him foolish and irresponsible. Also it made Lois a %^$£ for not out and out telling Supes he was a daddy.

And I always found Kidder's acting irritating but if this was going to be a reboot (and Bosworth most definitely was different to Kidder) why not get a more mature and believable actress? Oh, cos they were aiming for teenage boys. My bad.

opinion guy

He didn't know he had a kid when he left

Klingon Hamlet

opinion guy wrote: »

He didn't know he had a kid when he left

Well he clearly didn't play it safe with his supersperm

opinion guy

Klingon Hamlet wrote: »

Well he clearly didn't play it safe with his supersperm

Maybe he did. How is he to know that supesperm coudl penetrate latex ? More than that how was he to know hw could impregnate aliens ?

Penn

opinion guy wrote: »

He didn't know he had a kid when he left

If I was Superman, I would definitely X-ray any girl I've slept with the next morning to see if she needs a Super morning-after pill

jaykhunter

opinion guy wrote: »

Maybe he did. How is he to know that supesperm coudl penetrate latex ? More than that how was he to know hw could impregnate aliens ?

He probably needs a kryptonite condom! :pac: Maybe he should've asked Captain Kirk if he's ever impregnated aliens...nah; that would be too far fetched

Sleazus

paddyirishman85 wrote: »

If I was Superman, I would definitely X-ray any girl I've slept with the next morning to see if she needs a Super morning-after pill

I remember that being the source of a Family Guy cutaway joke about a fictionalised Superman 5, pretty much explaining his trip to Krypton at the start of Returns. He meets Lois for a date, notices she's pregnant.

"Umm... I gotta go... to Krypton."
"But you said Krypton was destroyed?"
"Yeah, but... see ya!" (flies through window)

kearnsy20

As a major Superman fan since as long as i can remember i did enjoy this movie but at the same time i was very much let down by it. I didnt really have any issues with any of the cast but the main storyline was like watching a mirror movie of the original. Lex wants land and uses kryptonite to stop Kal-El. I mean a bit of imagination and originality wouldnt be that hard would it???

I would love to see either Doomsday or Darkseid in a movie, its about time we saw the man of steel up against someone who actually poses a threat to him, someone that can go the full 12 rounds you know???

I do like the idea that people are throwing out on here about the metallo, doomsday trilogy idea.

Another thing about Returns, at the beginning of the movie we see that he comes back from Krypton in a ship similar to the one he came to earth in, but how did he get there? Surely he wouldnt have fit in the original ship even if it was capable of flight again. Has anyone else ever wondered this???

Klingon Hamlet

kearnsy20 wrote: »

Another thing about Returns, at the beginning of the movie we see that he comes back from Krypton in a ship similar to the one he came to earth in, but how did he get there? Surely he wouldnt have fit in the original ship even if it was capable of flight again. Has anyone else ever wondered this???

I presume he expanded it using Earthly materials. I've read that there was an entire segment devoted to his journey to/from the remains of Krypton completely removed from the film. Apparently it cost a few million to make. Always wondered why they did that.

Sleepy

The opening music and first glimpse of Roth turned me into a 5 year old running around in my Superman pyjamas again...

The rest of the movie I struggle to remember. Love the idea of the trilogy with Superman getting pwn'd at the end of the second one.

Ardent

Yer wan who played Lois Lane was miscast and was truly awful.

Mr.Nice Guy

In my opinion it failed because it simply wasn't necessary.

jaykhunter

Here's my take on it why Returns failed :

Superman/CK doesn't really have any character flaws or problems so it takes really good writing to make him good in a movie. He's basically a boy scout.

His gimmick is that he has every super power, and nothing spent on his character - unlike the superheroes that succeeded him, who also had personal issues of some kind to flesh out their characters. Take Wolverine for example; very powerful, but emotionally damaged, with a mysterious past. Or Batman...you get the idea!

Every super power? That's far too powerful. So it's hard to care when anyone else -especially humans- try to oppose him.

I think the gimmick of Lex Luther -who's goal is to create more land- didn't hook in the audience. Real estate? Don't care so much!

At some point someone with gleefully put together the best ideas of a few comic books/graphic novels into a slick package....when that'll be, nobody knows...Hopefully Christopher Nolan helps Superman 2 out.

For the record, I saw Returns twice in the cinema; I didn't think it was bad, just not interesting.

indough

i dont see that his powers are the problem

what the new movies will need to do is present him with no easy solutions to problems, ie make it impossible for everything to turn out ok in the end, he must be made to choose between saving this group of people or that group, not both

apply real world physics to his environment (obviously he will still be able to fly), for example you cant lift up the statue of liberty or an aeroplane by one point no matter how strong you are as it would fall apart, and people cannot breathe in space (i suppose we arent counting superman 4 though)

i dont think we have to see the character having such a clear cut sense of morality, just because thats the way its been done before doesnt mean it cant be shaken up a bit

finally please keep any form of camp comedy well and truly away

indough

i forgot the most important thing of all, no spinning the world backwards time travel

jaykhunter

indough wrote: »

finally please keep any form of camp comedy well and truly away

Agreed man. Coughed out my tea, I read chimp comedy and had to re-read it! I think they'd have to forget the 80s superman films but obviously they didn't do they with Superman Returns. Very odd idea to be a sequel to the original film...

indough

i dont blame them for that to be honest, i still love the first 2 donner films although they definitely have their faults - the way they linked it to the previous films was stupid though

im not a comic expert so i could be 100% wrong on this but i believe the superman concept was originally based on the ubermensch idea of Nietzsches, if they were to work some of that idea into his character i think it would be all the more interesting

Eglinton

Klingon Hamlet wrote: »

I presume he expanded it using Earthly materials. I've read that there was an entire segment devoted to his journey to/from the remains of Krypton completely removed from the film. Apparently it cost a few million to make. Always wondered why they did that.

I've always wondered that too. You can see a little bit of the segment in the original teaser trailer (@ 45 seconds). There a line in the film too where Lois asks Superman "how could you leave us" and I'd say originally we were supposed to be shown why until they removed it

EDIT: Also some interesting pictures and fan trailor which has some deleted scenes/stills included on the petition website for a Brian Singer cut. http://www.supermanreturnsthebryansingercut.com/

Very good still from the cut scenes here http://elhombredeacero.iespana.es/SRTBSC_Informe_Final_Plano.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5DMCd7hv1w