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Serious allegations made against Irish Sports Council and AAI

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,614 ✭✭✭Rineanna


    FishnChips wrote: »

    Just what the sport needs. :rolleyes: Hopefully it can be resolved expediently.

    From past experience, these threads tend to go downhill fast, so I would kindly ask not make any remarks about individuals that could get us into trouble.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 121 ✭✭Fish'n'Chips




  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13 athlete43


    <mod snip> not comfortable with discussions about individuals involved in an ongoing court case where posts mention informations/opinion not in the public domain.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 121 ✭✭Fish'n'Chips




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 218 ✭✭Reaganomical


    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/0310/breaking69.html

    Good news that this case has settled. Hopefully, thanks to Doha, there'll only be positive Irish athletics news in the media this weekend ;)


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,598 ✭✭✭shels4ever


    Well I didnt see that coming, hope thats the end of it all .


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,762 ✭✭✭✭ecoli


    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/0310/breaking69.html

    Good news that this case has settled. Hopefully, thanks to Doha, there'll only be positive Irish athletics news in the media this weekend ;)

    Just a pity they could not have done this before it got to court. Maybe then the Athletics Ireland budget would have a bit extra. Anyway enough about the bad focus on the good with some exciting performances hopefully in store this weekend. Interestingly average age of the team (non relay) is only 25 has to be a very optimistic sign for the sport in the long run


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 121 ✭✭Fish'n'Chips


    The fallout from this could be potentially massive in terms of the future running of Irish sport when it is known to governmental figures how much the Irish Sports Council (and to a lesser degree, AAI) have cost the Irish taxpayer.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,912 ✭✭✭thirtyfoot


    I had written a long spiel but said feck it, why post it as it will serve no purpose but to start a row.

    The only fallout from this I want to see is that a) all the main players in this (on both sides) have very little power again in Irish athletics as to be fair they are all as bad as each other, (b) Congress elects some element of fresh blood to the board or at least some strong people with balls, (c) there is no effect finacially to athletics ireland (would people be happy to see a Basketball Ireland scenario and suspension of senior international teams) and finally (d), that the line will be drawn in the sand, there will be no continuation of the 'war' and we just bloody move on, stop the guff talk, lobbying, political shenanigans and if people feel thats all they can do then either get out and coach some athletes or else p*ss off and play politics (of the negative kind) somewhere else.

    PS I swear to God, I'm going to start bringing me hurley to training and competitions and if I see the politicadoes pressing the flesh and talking guff I'll burst in and start swinging across the shins. They drive me bananas and with Congress coming up I can see them all over the shop over the next few weeks. New motto - LESS GUFF, MORE COACHING. I do appreciate I do talk a lot of guff.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 669 ✭✭✭emerald007


    So can we assume that an out of court settlement means about 500,000 changing hands?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 121 ✭✭Fish'n'Chips


    Originally posted by Tingle
    The only fallout from this I want to see is that a) all the main players in this (on both sides) have very little power again in Irish athletics as to be fair they are all as bad as each other

    While I agree with you on some of the other points you made I think you're way off the mark with this comment.

    For a person who has shown such a keen interest and claims to be "in the know" of the politics of what has happened within AAI over the past 18 months this is a very strange conclusion to have drawn.

    How could you come to the opinion that "they are all as bad as each other" when the people who brought this case forward did so so that athletics in Ireland can be governed properly and run professionally with accountability across the board (never mind the fact that a highly qualified and competent person was effectively bullied and pushed out of her job)?

    My advice to you is to get a copy of the court transcripts and find out more about the actual facts of the case rather than listening to the hearsay and rumours that have been spread around if you're going to comment. If you're not bothered to do this please save us the lazy remarks. Thanks.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 121 ✭✭Fish'n'Chips


    Originally posted by emerald007
    So can we assume that an out of court settlement means about 500,000 changing hands?

    A Freedom of Information request would probably reveal the legal costs incurred by the Irish Sports Council and AAI which will be covered by the taxpayer. I'm not sure if it can reveal the settlement or legal costs that they had to pay to the former CEO.

    The court transcripts will reveal that the former CEO sought mediation to resolve the problems with the Sports Council/AAI without bringing it to court but they ignored her requests and as a result have brought on the massive costs and bad publicity which could have been easily avoided.

    A new Minister for Sport who actually has the balls to do the right thing is badly needed. I do realise this is probably a contradiction in terms.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 239 ✭✭ChickenTikka


    FishnChips wrote: »
    How could you come to the opinion that "they are all as bad as each other" when the people who brought this case forward did so so that athletics in Ireland can be governed properly and run professionally with accountability across the board (never mind the fact that a highly qualified and competent person was effectively bullied and pushed out of her job)?

    I'm confused F'n'C ... aren't all the people besides MC still in their jobs in ISC and AAI and still govern athletics?
    FishnChips wrote: »
    A Freedom of Information request would probably reveal the legal costs incurred by the Irish Sports Council and AAI which will be covered by the taxpayer.

    Hadn't realised that the taxpayer would pick up the AAI legals costs. Thats good news if thats the case. Is the Government just paying the bill or AAI pay it and get refunded with extra grant from ISC?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,912 ✭✭✭thirtyfoot


    FishnChips wrote: »
    My advice to you is to get a copy of the court transcripts and find out more about the actual facts of the case rather than listening to the hearsay and rumours that have been spread around if you're going to comment. If you're not bothered to do this please save us the lazy remarks. Thanks.

    Don't tend to listen to hearsay or rumour. I based my assumption that there was 'bad' on both sides primarily on a conversation I had with a major player in your side of the camp. I pm'd you about this a while back. You wouldn't believe me. I'll pm you again with it and more details. Believe me if you want but knowing this tells me that all was not above board on both sides.

    I also think its fair enough to want all parties that were key players in this to be no longer involved in irish athletics. I still think thats a fair comment. Based on your posting I fear this may not be the case and we may not have seen the end of hostilities.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 121 ✭✭Fish'n'Chips


    Originally posted by Tingle
    Believe me if you want but knowing this tells me that all was not above board on both sides.

    I just sent you a PM outlining how in actual fact things were 'above board' on the side of the CEO.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 121 ✭✭Fish'n'Chips


    Originally posted by ChickenTikka
    I'm confused F'n'C ... aren't all the people besides MC still in their jobs in ISC and AAI and still govern athletics?

    There is likely going to be an inquiry into this.
    Originally posted by ChickenTikka
    Hadn't realised that the taxpayer would pick up the AAI legals costs.

    Where do you think the Government or the Irish Sports Council or AAI (in the main) gets it's money from?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,598 ✭✭✭shels4ever


    FishnChips wrote: »
    There is likely going to be an inquiry into this.



    Where do you think the Government or the Irish Sports Council or AAI (in the main) gets it's money from?

    But the funds come out of the budget right?, the Government wouldnt be giving extra cash to cover the bills?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,762 ✭✭✭✭ecoli


    shels4ever wrote: »
    But the funds come out of the budget right?, the Government wouldnt be giving extra cash to cover the bills?

    Yep that right which means the athletes loose oyt on hundreds of thousands because this couldnt be kept out of the courts despite the same outcome being reached as would have if they didnt go through with legal proceedings


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 239 ✭✭ChickenTikka


    FishnChips wrote: »
    Where do you think the Government or the Irish Sports Council or AAI (in the main) gets it's money from?

    Ok I misinterpreted your post ... I thought you meant the taxpayer was coughing up additional money for the legal fees rather than existing grant money that was already allocated for athletics development purposes when AAI got their original funding for this year.

    So I guess its that existing money that the taxpayer gave for athletics development that will now go to legal fees?

    Or maybe the approx €300 AAI gets each year from me each year for family membership and for attending National juvenile/junior athletics events ... maybe that will be allocated to legal fees. :mad:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 699 ✭✭✭DangerMouse27


    €300! how many are there in your family?

    my yearly club membership is €50 and that covers everything..of course you pony up the race fee yourself but its usually not that much for most events


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,598 ✭✭✭shels4ever


    ecoli wrote: »
    Yep that right which means the athletes loose oyt on hundreds of thousands because this couldnt be kept out of the courts despite the same outcome being reached as would have if they didnt go through with legal proceedings

    Maybe they should change the Q standards for the european CC now, 13:00 for 5k , 3:33 for 1500m 1:42 for 800m would save them lots of money ( Thats for the womens :))


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 699 ✭✭✭DangerMouse27


    We can save the price of a flight on Alastair Cragg running in any top class International event unless he can prove his fitness first.That South African is such a joker


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,598 ✭✭✭shels4ever


    We can save the price of a flight on Alastair Cragg running in any top class International event unless he can prove his fitness first.That South African is such a joker

    13:16 last year not good enough ?
    Bit harsh on him really,


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 239 ✭✭ChickenTikka


    €300! how many are there in your family?

    I've 25 kids. And since they cut the social welfare, I'm struggling to make ends meet :-)

    Seriously .... I'm a coach and have to pay €10 at almost every National juvenile or junior event for the privilege of coaching my athletes. So 4 days of National indoors, 4 outdoors, 2 cross countries, 2 multi-events, 2 or 3 National junior events, the odd senior event ... adds up to about 20x€10. And all my family are members ... close to €100 membership to AAI.

    So my preference is for my money not to be spent on legal fees!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 699 ✭✭✭DangerMouse27


    shels4ever wrote: »
    13:16 last year not good enough ?
    Bit harsh on him really,

    I was more referring to his preformances at major championships.but thats not the topic here..id prefer a more promising junior to go in his stead..


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,762 ✭✭✭✭ecoli


    We can save the price of a flight on Alastair Cragg running in any top class International event unless he can prove his fitness first.That South African is such a joker

    He No.1 ranked in 5k last year by more than 20 seconds, 3k indoor this year and if not mistaken 1 mile too and that while he is training for the half marathon in two weeks time so i think he does earn his place he has been unlucky with injury and that and it would be nice to see him perform well while donning the Ireland singlet but few bad performances should discredit him unless there is someone out there who can match his times. Criteria is based on performance and he does enough each year to keep him on the (20,000 a year) sure we nearly give that to people on the dole in this country for doing nothing. Rather pay his flights than fork out 20 times that for pointless money wasting squables with the big wigs


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 699 ✭✭✭DangerMouse27


    Seriously .... I'm a coach and have to pay €10 at almost every National juvenile or junior event for the privilege of coaching my athletes. So 4 days of National indoors, 4 outdoors, 2 cross countries, 2 multi-events, 2 or 3 National junior events, the odd senior event ... adds up to about 20x€10. And all my family are members ... close to €100 membership to AAI.

    Thems are crazy numbers but thank god you have the dedication to keep going with it,its families like yours and others at my club which are driving a success and participation roundabout.Good few years ago the Leinster Juveniles were at an awful level of participation but i see year on year the numbers go up.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 699 ✭✭✭DangerMouse27


    Again,ive started this on the wrong thread but that man is South African..!he just keeps underperforming at major championships..40th at the recent cross country..that place should have been given elsewhere.we even flew him here! now that was a waste of money.

    Sorry for going off topic! il stop on this.This funding argument is to big for me to be coming on here giving legitamate gripes over a transferred athlete.Oops! my bad


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,762 ✭✭✭✭ecoli


    Again,ive started this on the wrong thread but that man is South African..!he just keeps underperforming at major championships..40th at the recent cross country..that place should have been given elsewhere.we even flew him here! now that was a waste of money.

    Sorry for going off topic! il stop on this.This funding argument is to big for me to be coming on here giving legitamate gripes over a transferred athlete.Oops! my bad

    I can understand where you coming from but one could argue that Fagan is in the same boat and i think that these lads do perform well but there training can mean that they are on a knife edge between injury and peak fitness in order to be able to compete at the top level. Hopefully with Cragg making a jump to the 13.1 mile we can see him find a distance where the intensity of each session might not lead him to so many injuries and we could have two world class marathon runners come London


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,912 ✭✭✭thirtyfoot


    So my preference is for my money not to be spent on legal fees!

    Yep thats my preference too! Is also my preference as regards the money we get in grants.

    Basketball Ireland is a scary example. They are €1.5m in debt (something strangely allowed to happen by ISC depsite ISC seeing annual accounts) and have no international programme for senior players this year. Tough on the women's team as they are making progress.

    Lets say the money in legal fees and compensation or whatever is burdened by the AAI, what will go first. Probably all paid staff will go. Fair enough, we can ultimately survive without many of them but it will have a knock on effect. That will probably mean the regional squads will be gone. Maybe other training camps will go too. Sending big teams to EYOF or Celtics will be difficult. Sending relays or teams to Euro Cross will be difficult. Also, taking punts on development athletes who have standards to get experience at majors will probably be shelved. To pick up the tab we may just send the likes of O' Rourke, Lougnane, Gillick, Heffernan and Hession to championships to save money. London '12 will be a disaster, we could lose lots of promising athletes as the international aspect to our sport (which is a good selling point) will be gone. Competitions might have to be curtailed. All this because of a small number of people with all the power couldn't sort it out. ecoli is right, should never have got to this stage. They should all hang their heads in shame. They have ridden our association rock solid! Financial winners = former CEO and legal teams, financial losers = athletes. I suppose you could say you can't blame the former CEO for taking the action but it will bring no good, in my opinion. Hope I'm wrong.


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