Serious allegations made against Irish Sports Council and AAI

Fish'n'Chips

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0305/1224265631005.html

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/courts/powerful-duo-were-hostile-to-sacked-athletics-chief-court-told-2089554.html

Rineanna

FishnChips wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0305/1224265631005.html

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/courts/powerful-duo-were-hostile-to-sacked-athletics-chief-court-told-2089554.html

Just what the sport needs. :rolleyes: Hopefully it can be resolved expediently.

From past experience, these threads tend to go downhill fast, so I would kindly ask not make any remarks about individuals that could get us into trouble.

Fish'n'Chips

Report on Friday's court proceedings:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0306/1224265706900.html

athlete43

<mod snip> not comfortable with discussions about individuals involved in an ongoing court case where posts mention informations/opinion not in the public domain.

Fish'n'Chips

Today's Irish Times:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0310/1224265978919.html

Reaganomical

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/0310/breaking69.html

Good news that this case has settled. Hopefully, thanks to Doha, there'll only be positive Irish athletics news in the media this weekend

shels4ever

Well I didnt see that coming, hope thats the end of it all .

ecoli

schnellimbiss wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/0310/breaking69.html

Good news that this case has settled. Hopefully, thanks to Doha, there'll only be positive Irish athletics news in the media this weekend

Just a pity they could not have done this before it got to court. Maybe then the Athletics Ireland budget would have a bit extra. Anyway enough about the bad focus on the good with some exciting performances hopefully in store this weekend. Interestingly average age of the team (non relay) is only 25 has to be a very optimistic sign for the sport in the long run

Fish'n'Chips

The fallout from this could be potentially massive in terms of the future running of Irish sport when it is known to governmental figures how much the Irish Sports Council (and to a lesser degree, AAI) have cost the Irish taxpayer.

thirtyfoot

I had written a long spiel but said feck it, why post it as it will serve no purpose but to start a row.

The only fallout from this I want to see is that a) all the main players in this (on both sides) have very little power again in Irish athletics as to be fair they are all as bad as each other, (b) Congress elects some element of fresh blood to the board or at least some strong people with balls, (c) there is no effect finacially to athletics ireland (would people be happy to see a Basketball Ireland scenario and suspension of senior international teams) and finally (d), that the line will be drawn in the sand, there will be no continuation of the 'war' and we just bloody move on, stop the guff talk, lobbying, political shenanigans and if people feel thats all they can do then either get out and coach some athletes or else p*ss off and play politics (of the negative kind) somewhere else.

PS I swear to God, I'm going to start bringing me hurley to training and competitions and if I see the politicadoes pressing the flesh and talking guff I'll burst in and start swinging across the shins. They drive me bananas and with Congress coming up I can see them all over the shop over the next few weeks. New motto - LESS GUFF, MORE COACHING. I do appreciate I do talk a lot of guff.

emerald007

So can we assume that an out of court settlement means about 500,000 changing hands?

Fish'n'Chips

Originally posted by Tingle
The only fallout from this I want to see is that a) all the main players in this (on both sides) have very little power again in Irish athletics as to be fair they are all as bad as each other

While I agree with you on some of the other points you made I think you're way off the mark with this comment.

For a person who has shown such a keen interest and claims to be "in the know" of the politics of what has happened within AAI over the past 18 months this is a very strange conclusion to have drawn.

How could you come to the opinion that "they are all as bad as each other" when the people who brought this case forward did so so that athletics in Ireland can be governed properly and run professionally with accountability across the board (never mind the fact that a highly qualified and competent person was effectively bullied and pushed out of her job)?

My advice to you is to get a copy of the court transcripts and find out more about the actual facts of the case rather than listening to the hearsay and rumours that have been spread around if you're going to comment. If you're not bothered to do this please save us the lazy remarks. Thanks.

Fish'n'Chips

Originally posted by emerald007
So can we assume that an out of court settlement means about 500,000 changing hands?

A Freedom of Information request would probably reveal the legal costs incurred by the Irish Sports Council and AAI which will be covered by the taxpayer. I'm not sure if it can reveal the settlement or legal costs that they had to pay to the former CEO.

The court transcripts will reveal that the former CEO sought mediation to resolve the problems with the Sports Council/AAI without bringing it to court but they ignored her requests and as a result have brought on the massive costs and bad publicity which could have been easily avoided.

A new Minister for Sport who actually has the balls to do the right thing is badly needed. I do realise this is probably a contradiction in terms.

ChickenTikka

FishnChips wrote: »

How could you come to the opinion that "they are all as bad as each other" when the people who brought this case forward did so so that athletics in Ireland can be governed properly and run professionally with accountability across the board (never mind the fact that a highly qualified and competent person was effectively bullied and pushed out of her job)?

I'm confused F'n'C ... aren't all the people besides MC still in their jobs in ISC and AAI and still govern athletics?

FishnChips wrote: »

A Freedom of Information request would probably reveal the legal costs incurred by the Irish Sports Council and AAI which will be covered by the taxpayer.

Hadn't realised that the taxpayer would pick up the AAI legals costs. Thats good news if thats the case. Is the Government just paying the bill or AAI pay it and get refunded with extra grant from ISC?

thirtyfoot

FishnChips wrote: »

My advice to you is to get a copy of the court transcripts and find out more about the actual facts of the case rather than listening to the hearsay and rumours that have been spread around if you're going to comment. If you're not bothered to do this please save us the lazy remarks. Thanks.

Don't tend to listen to hearsay or rumour. I based my assumption that there was 'bad' on both sides primarily on a conversation I had with a major player in your side of the camp. I pm'd you about this a while back. You wouldn't believe me. I'll pm you again with it and more details. Believe me if you want but knowing this tells me that all was not above board on both sides.

I also think its fair enough to want all parties that were key players in this to be no longer involved in irish athletics. I still think thats a fair comment. Based on your posting I fear this may not be the case and we may not have seen the end of hostilities.

Fish'n'Chips

Originally posted by Tingle
Believe me if you want but knowing this tells me that all was not above board on both sides.

I just sent you a PM outlining how in actual fact things were 'above board' on the side of the CEO.

Fish'n'Chips

Originally posted by ChickenTikka
I'm confused F'n'C ... aren't all the people besides MC still in their jobs in ISC and AAI and still govern athletics?

There is likely going to be an inquiry into this.

Originally posted by ChickenTikka
Hadn't realised that the taxpayer would pick up the AAI legals costs.

Where do you think the Government or the Irish Sports Council or AAI (in the main) gets it's money from?

shels4ever

FishnChips wrote: »

There is likely going to be an inquiry into this.



Where do you think the Government or the Irish Sports Council or AAI (in the main) gets it's money from?

But the funds come out of the budget right?, the Government wouldnt be giving extra cash to cover the bills?

ecoli

shels4ever wrote: »

But the funds come out of the budget right?, the Government wouldnt be giving extra cash to cover the bills?

Yep that right which means the athletes loose oyt on hundreds of thousands because this couldnt be kept out of the courts despite the same outcome being reached as would have if they didnt go through with legal proceedings

ChickenTikka

FishnChips wrote: »

Where do you think the Government or the Irish Sports Council or AAI (in the main) gets it's money from?

Ok I misinterpreted your post ... I thought you meant the taxpayer was coughing up additional money for the legal fees rather than existing grant money that was already allocated for athletics development purposes when AAI got their original funding for this year.

So I guess its that existing money that the taxpayer gave for athletics development that will now go to legal fees?

Or maybe the approx €300 AAI gets each year from me each year for family membership and for attending National juvenile/junior athletics events ... maybe that will be allocated to legal fees. :mad:

DangerMouse27

€300! how many are there in your family?

my yearly club membership is €50 and that covers everything..of course you pony up the race fee yourself but its usually not that much for most events

shels4ever

ecoli wrote: »

Yep that right which means the athletes loose oyt on hundreds of thousands because this couldnt be kept out of the courts despite the same outcome being reached as would have if they didnt go through with legal proceedings

Maybe they should change the Q standards for the european CC now, 13:00 for 5k , 3:33 for 1500m 1:42 for 800m would save them lots of money ( Thats for the womens )

DangerMouse27

We can save the price of a flight on Alastair Cragg running in any top class International event unless he can prove his fitness first.That South African is such a joker

shels4ever

DangerMouse27 wrote: »

We can save the price of a flight on Alastair Cragg running in any top class International event unless he can prove his fitness first.That South African is such a joker

13:16 last year not good enough ?
Bit harsh on him really,

ChickenTikka

DangerMouse27 wrote: »

€300! how many are there in your family?

I've 25 kids. And since they cut the social welfare, I'm struggling to make ends meet :-)

Seriously .... I'm a coach and have to pay €10 at almost every National juvenile or junior event for the privilege of coaching my athletes. So 4 days of National indoors, 4 outdoors, 2 cross countries, 2 multi-events, 2 or 3 National junior events, the odd senior event ... adds up to about 20x€10. And all my family are members ... close to €100 membership to AAI.

So my preference is for my money not to be spent on legal fees!

DangerMouse27

shels4ever wrote: »

13:16 last year not good enough ?
Bit harsh on him really,

I was more referring to his preformances at major championships.but thats not the topic here..id prefer a more promising junior to go in his stead..

ecoli

DangerMouse27 wrote: »

We can save the price of a flight on Alastair Cragg running in any top class International event unless he can prove his fitness first.That South African is such a joker

He No.1 ranked in 5k last year by more than 20 seconds, 3k indoor this year and if not mistaken 1 mile too and that while he is training for the half marathon in two weeks time so i think he does earn his place he has been unlucky with injury and that and it would be nice to see him perform well while donning the Ireland singlet but few bad performances should discredit him unless there is someone out there who can match his times. Criteria is based on performance and he does enough each year to keep him on the (20,000 a year) sure we nearly give that to people on the dole in this country for doing nothing. Rather pay his flights than fork out 20 times that for pointless money wasting squables with the big wigs

DangerMouse27

ChickenTikka wrote: »

Seriously .... I'm a coach and have to pay €10 at almost every National juvenile or junior event for the privilege of coaching my athletes. So 4 days of National indoors, 4 outdoors, 2 cross countries, 2 multi-events, 2 or 3 National junior events, the odd senior event ... adds up to about 20x€10. And all my family are members ... close to €100 membership to AAI.

Thems are crazy numbers but thank god you have the dedication to keep going with it,its families like yours and others at my club which are driving a success and participation roundabout.Good few years ago the Leinster Juveniles were at an awful level of participation but i see year on year the numbers go up.

DangerMouse27

Again,ive started this on the wrong thread but that man is South African..!he just keeps underperforming at major championships..40th at the recent cross country..that place should have been given elsewhere.we even flew him here! now that was a waste of money.

Sorry for going off topic! il stop on this.This funding argument is to big for me to be coming on here giving legitamate gripes over a transferred athlete.Oops! my bad

ecoli

DangerMouse27 wrote: »

Again,ive started this on the wrong thread but that man is South African..!he just keeps underperforming at major championships..40th at the recent cross country..that place should have been given elsewhere.we even flew him here! now that was a waste of money.

Sorry for going off topic! il stop on this.This funding argument is to big for me to be coming on here giving legitamate gripes over a transferred athlete.Oops! my bad

I can understand where you coming from but one could argue that Fagan is in the same boat and i think that these lads do perform well but there training can mean that they are on a knife edge between injury and peak fitness in order to be able to compete at the top level. Hopefully with Cragg making a jump to the 13.1 mile we can see him find a distance where the intensity of each session might not lead him to so many injuries and we could have two world class marathon runners come London

thirtyfoot

ChickenTikka wrote: »

So my preference is for my money not to be spent on legal fees!

Yep thats my preference too! Is also my preference as regards the money we get in grants.

Basketball Ireland is a scary example. They are €1.5m in debt (something strangely allowed to happen by ISC depsite ISC seeing annual accounts) and have no international programme for senior players this year. Tough on the women's team as they are making progress.

Lets say the money in legal fees and compensation or whatever is burdened by the AAI, what will go first. Probably all paid staff will go. Fair enough, we can ultimately survive without many of them but it will have a knock on effect. That will probably mean the regional squads will be gone. Maybe other training camps will go too. Sending big teams to EYOF or Celtics will be difficult. Sending relays or teams to Euro Cross will be difficult. Also, taking punts on development athletes who have standards to get experience at majors will probably be shelved. To pick up the tab we may just send the likes of O' Rourke, Lougnane, Gillick, Heffernan and Hession to championships to save money. London '12 will be a disaster, we could lose lots of promising athletes as the international aspect to our sport (which is a good selling point) will be gone. Competitions might have to be curtailed. All this because of a small number of people with all the power couldn't sort it out. ecoli is right, should never have got to this stage. They should all hang their heads in shame. They have ridden our association rock solid! Financial winners = former CEO and legal teams, financial losers = athletes. I suppose you could say you can't blame the former CEO for taking the action but it will bring no good, in my opinion. Hope I'm wrong.

ecoli

Tingle wrote: »

Yep thats my preference too! Is also my preference as regards the money we get in grants.

Basketball Ireland is a scary example. They are €1.5m in debt (something strangely allowed to happen by ISC depsite ISC seeing annual accounts) and have no international programme for senior players this year. Tough on the women's team as they are making progress.

Lets say the money in legal fees and compensation or whatever is burdened by the AAI, what will go first. Probably all paid staff will go. Fair enough, we can ultimately survive without many of them but it will have a knock on effect. That will probably mean the regional squads will be gone. Maybe other training camps will go too. Sending big teams to EYOF or Celtics will be difficult. Sending relays or teams to Euro Cross will be difficult. Also, taking punts on development athletes who have standards to get experience at majors will probably be shelved. To pick up the tab we may just send the likes of O' Rourke, Lougnane, Gillick, Heffernan and Hession to championships to save money. London '12 will be a disaster, we could lose lots of promising athletes as the international aspect to our sport (which is a good selling point) will be gone. Competitions might have to be curtailed. All this because of a small number of people with all the power couldn't sort it out. ecoli is right, should never have got to this stage. They should all hang their heads in shame. They have ridden our association rock solid! Financial winners = former CEO and legal teams, financial losers = athletes. I suppose you could say you can't blame the former CEO for taking the action but it will bring no good, in my opinion. Hope I'm wrong.

Whether the CEO is completely blameless is an topical issue but i think the fact that the AAI and the ISC knew they were in the wrong also and rather than just pay a setlement cost they were pigheaded and only drove up the expense with legal teams. If my estimations are correct this episode will have cost the sport more than 10% of the sports over all funding for the year (and these are conservative estimations

Hard Worker

Tingle wrote: »

Yep thats my preference too! Is also my preference as regards the money we get in grants.

Basketball Ireland is a scary example. They are €1.5m in debt (something strangely allowed to happen by ISC depsite ISC seeing annual accounts) and have no international programme for senior players this year. Tough on the women's team as they are making progress.

Lets say the money in legal fees and compensation or whatever is burdened by the AAI, what will go first. Probably all paid staff will go. Fair enough, we can ultimately survive without many of them but it will have a knock on effect. That will probably mean the regional squads will be gone. Maybe other training camps will go too. Sending big teams to EYOF or Celtics will be difficult. Sending relays or teams to Euro Cross will be difficult. Also, taking punts on development athletes who have standards to get experience at majors will probably be shelved. To pick up the tab we may just send the likes of O' Rourke, Lougnane, Gillick, Heffernan and Hession to championships to save money. London '12 will be a disaster, we could lose lots of promising athletes as the international aspect to our sport (which is a good selling point) will be gone. Competitions might have to be curtailed. All this because of a small number of people with all the power couldn't sort it out. ecoli is right, should never have got to this stage. They should all hang their heads in shame. They have ridden our association rock solid! Financial winners = former CEO and legal teams, financial losers = athletes. I suppose you could say you can't blame the former CEO for taking the action but it will bring no good, in my opinion. Hope I'm wrong.

I thought I was reading Damien Richardsons programme notes there for a minute.:)
I don't think anyone can blame the former CEO for taking the action.
It would be nice if a certain few in AAI examined themselves and see the bad that they have brought to the Association and the total waste of money they have caused. Somehow or other, I cannot see anyone stepping down.

thirtyfoot

Hard Worker wrote: »

I thought I was reading Damien Richardsons programme notes there for a minute.:)
I don't think anyone can blame the former CEO for taking the action.
It would be nice if a certain few in AAI examined themselves and see the bad that they have brought to the Association and the total waste of money they have caused. Somehow or other, I cannot see anyone stepping down.

That is one of my favourite pieces of audio from Rico, always wanted to use it:) "We're from Cork, they're from Dublin and they don't give a sh*te about us..............", actually thats the opinion many people have of the AAI too;)

People might not step down but they could be voted out in Congress!

Fish'n'Chips

From what I am aware I don't think athletes or AAI will be affected financially by this. The Sports Council caused the problems and the Department of Sport/Attorney General's office know this. The Sports Council intimidated and put the gun to the AAI board's head to get rid of the CEO without a good reason, when in fact they (AAI) didn't want to get rid of her, but felt they had no choice, otherwise they thought their funding would be cut.

Make no mistake while there was massive weakness shown by AAI in not standing their ground against the Sports Council but the Sports Council (or to be more precise, 2 particular individuals within the Sports Council) are the root cause of this.

Again I will state that the CEO sought mediation to avoid a court case/massive legal costs etc. but the Sports Council ignored her and arrogantly tried to swat her to the side and gave a directive to the AAI board to "remove the cancer within you" referring to the CEO . That is why I think there are potentially massive repercussions in this case for the good of Irish athletics - it means the Sports Council should be monitored much more tightly in the future by higher powers so that they can't bully and interfere with NGB's like they have done with Athletics Ireland.

downthemiddle

FishnChips wrote: »

From what I am aware I don't think athletes or AAI will be affected financially by this. The Sports Council caused the problems and the Department of Sport/Attorney General's office know this. The Sports Council intimidated and put the gun to the AAI board's head to get rid of the CEO without a good reason, when in fact they (AAI) didn't want to get rid of her, but felt they had no choice, otherwise they thought their funding would be cut.

Make no mistake while there was massive weakness shown by AAI in not standing their ground against the Sports Council but the Sports Council (or to be more precise, 2 particular individuals within the Sports Council) are the root cause of this.

Again I will state that the CEO sought mediation to avoid a court case/massive legal costs etc. but the Sports Council ignored her and arrogantly tried to swat her to the side and gave a directive to the AAI board to "remove the cancer within you" referring to the CEO . That is why I think there are potentially massive repercussions in this case for the good of Irish athletics - it means the Sports Council should be monitored much more tightly in the future by higher powers so that they can't bully and interfere with NGB's like they have done with Athletics Ireland.

It's very difficult to reply to this post without crossing the laws of libel and I don't think the taxpayer will pay my legal costs.
FnC is firmly in the former CEO's camp as they are fully entitled to be. However, as always, there are two sides to this story. We should never have found ourselves in this situation. While the settlement may have been prudent for both sides it meant we only heard from one of the parties. What disappoints me is that the people responsible for protecting the sport have, once again, damaged its credibility.

Fish'n'Chips

Originally posted by downthemiddle
However, as always, there are two sides to this story. We should never have found ourselves in this situation. While the settlement may have been prudent for both sides it meant we only heard from one of the parties.

The transcripts of the court case are publicly available. The evidence that the former CEO's legal team presented about some of the things the Sports Council did is absolutely shocking. You wouldn't believe it until you saw it. For this reason I think there is going to be a positive impact for all of sport in Ireland because I don't think the Sports Council will be allowed to rule Irish sport with an iron fist again. I believe there will be an internal inquiry by the Department of Sport into this.

Let me put it this way: the Sports Council offered to settle while the independent Recruitment Chairman, who chaired the process in recruiting the CEO and Director of Athletics, gave evidence against the Irish Sports Council. There was damning evidence given against John Treacy who during the process of the recruitment of the Director of Athletics said to the independent Chairman "He's not to get the job!" or words VERY similar to that effect in referring to one of the candidates according to the Chairman.

Now why would the Sports Council try to settle and incur massive costs while this Chairman was giving evidence if this wasn't true?

Again, for the moderators of this board worried about libel there is no worry as this is in the court transcripts.

Rineanna

Fair enough; i'd prefer if there was a link posted to the transcripts where the claims are.

Kristopherus

IMHO all the heads involved in the losng side should roll. <Snip> The only person who comes out of this debacle with untarnished credibility is the former CEO, who, from reading the evidence, has been treated abysmally. The ISC management has a lot of soulsearching to do as well.

[Mod Warning: This thread will be locked if there's any more personal attacks on those involved]

Fish'n'Chips

Today's Indo detailing the amount the Sports Council have cost the State:

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/courts/state-faces-83641m-bill-for--dismissal-claim-at-sport-body-2098242.html

thirtyfoot

Sickening money. €300k = all athlete grants for a year, €1m = athlete grants for nearly a full Olympic cycle. Its a sick joke.

What a legacy Mary Coghlan as CEO has left us. Division, financial uncertainty, regression on issues that were a priority when she joined. Good times:mad::mad::mad:

asimonov

I am not as much in the know as you guys above, i'm just an ordinary club member. But for what its worth i think

- this type of dispute is probably typical of an organisation that has lost its sense of purpose and drive. What an absolute waste of energy.

- in terms of the payment being €300,000 - surely at some point the association and their legal team must have figured it was a fair measure of the damage caused to the CEO by their own actions. I don't think the person receiving the settlement can be deemed to be at fault.

- the AAI would run a close second to the Vatican for relentlessly generating negative PR

- The sports council seems to have an inordinate amount of formal and informal control over the management and board of AAI

- The whole affair runs contra to the goodwill and spirit that i see at grass roots local athletics

here's hoping it simulates organisational change - i'm not exactly proud to be a card carrying member at the moment.*

* if i had a card to carry

Krusty_Clown

Tingle wrote: »

What a legacy Mary Coghlan as CEO has left us. Division, financial uncertainty, regression on issues that were a priority when she joined. Good times:mad::mad::mad:

Not much balance in your comment Tingle. Hardly blameless, but I don't think that anybody would argue that she's the only one to blame. She was removed from her position. It's difficult to leave a positive legacy behind you after you have been sacked.

Pherekydes

Tingle wrote: »

Sickening money. €300k = all athlete grants for a year, €1m = athlete grants for nearly a full Olympic cycle. Its a sick joke.

What a legacy Mary Coghlan as CEO has left us. Division, financial uncertainty, regression on issues that were a priority when she joined. Good times:mad::mad::mad:

Sometimes you have a unique way of looking at things.

IrishTrackFan1

Tingle wrote: »

Sickening money. €300k = all athlete grants for a year, €1m = athlete grants for nearly a full Olympic cycle. Its a sick joke.

What a legacy Mary Coghlan as CEO has left us. Division, financial uncertainty, regression on issues that were a priority when she joined. Good times:mad::mad::mad:

The CEO is gone alright. But the legacy is in the transcripts of the case. Simple fact is that the ISC interfered in the process that appointed her and with support from senior AAI officials undermined her from day one (well actually it took four days for it to start as per emails read out in court).

Either we accept that our CEOs are chosen by the ISC or we make sure it can't happen again. I'd like to see the ISC curtailed in a serious way after this and I am hopeful it will happen. They should have an independent HR person sit in on interviews to ensure the recommended process is followed but with no vote or say in the appointment. They don't have the remit and they don't have the expertise.

As for our own Board, I'm less hopeful that our members will hand out any punishment to the people involved.

MC was very brave, but our sport is corrupt at the highest levels and no competent person with a brain in their head would go next nor near it after what has happened here

thirtyfoot

IrishTrackFan1 wrote: »

I'd like to see the ISC curtailed in a serious way after this and I am hopeful it will happen.

Well if thats her legacy, I'll be very happy with that. I'm not convinced though that will happen, yet. There is soon to be a new Minister of Sport. Not sure if that will change anything. If the ISC aren't brought to task then it has been an awful waste and I'm not too positive that changes will take place in the ISC. Athletics does well with grant money, second only to boxing I think as regards the non-ball sports and horses. That may soon be changing because of this. If so, we are in for a few rocky years. We have the grants for 2010, we'll see how 2011 pans out.

Nobody can say the organisation progressed since she was CEO. It will be argued the regression took place as the fight was taken to the ISC at the sacrifice of the day to day progression of the organisation. If the ISC doesn't get called to task, then the gamble won't have paid off and it will have been the greatest waste of €1m in Irish sport in a long, long time. We'll wait and see.

thirtyfoot

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Not much balance in your comment Tingle. Hardly blameless, but I don't think that anybody would argue that she's the only one to blame. She was removed from her position. It's difficult to leave a positive legacy behind you after you have been sacked.

You are right and I'm not blaming her solely, its a colective blame for people on both sides. Mary was probably the scapegoat in someways for others behind the scenes pulling strings. They are still in situ, not sure if they are going for re-election.

Right now, that is her legacy. If ISC get shafted and reformed, that will be a wonderful legacy but right now we are screwed.

thirtyfoot

Pherekydes wrote: »

Sometimes you have a unique way of looking at things.

Fair enough, but does it not boil your blood that €1m was wasted on this?

Pherekydes

Tingle wrote: »

Fair enough, but does it not boil your blood that €1m was wasted on this?

Yes, of course it does. It was hardly her fault, though. Indeed, it has been shown not to have been. If the organisation has not progressed since she became CEO then that was not her fault either. She was never allowed do her job. Maybe she should just have quit at the first sign of opposition? Such a CEO would be worse than useless, IMO. If this (ISC interference in NGB governance) happened with the FAI Ireland would be banned from International Soccer, as it would be considered governmental interference.

The fallout from this case is that the position of the leaders of the ISC is untenable. There are also those in the AAI whose positions are untenable.

We, of course, await further developments in this regard*.




*I'm not holding my breath.

IrishTrackFan1

Tingle wrote: »

Well if thats her legacy, I'll be very happy with that. I'm not convinced though that will happen, yet. There is soon to be a new Minister of Sport. Not sure if that will change anything. If the ISC aren't brought to task then it has been an awful waste and I'm not too positive that changes will take place in the ISC. Athletics does well with grant money, second only to boxing I think as regards the non-ball sports and horses. That may soon be changing because of this. If so, we are in for a few rocky years. We have the grants for 2010, we'll see how 2011 pans out.

Nobody can say the organisation progressed since she was CEO. It will be argued the regression took place as the fight was taken to the ISC at the sacrifice of the day to day progression of the organisation. If the ISC doesn't get called to task, then the gamble won't have paid off and it will have been the greatest waste of €1m in Irish sport in a long, long time. We'll wait and see.

The regression was inevitable if you believe in standing against wrongdoing. Fighting back against the ISC was important in order to 1) Establish who runs athletics - if its the ISC then we can all go home since they are useless 2) Move AAI forward in its understanding of the role of the executive versus the volunteer - if the Donegal way of doing things persists then we are similarly screwed and 3) ensure that a good person does not get kicked out and have their name ruined - remember the initial leaks to the newspapers about bullying etc etc? - all completely unfounded.

Finally, I am surprised to detect a hint of forelock tugging in your post - the ISC is a conduit for taxpayer money and we get what we deserve in grants, not what individuals deign to give us. As with the OCI many years ago this episode will underpin the level of grants, not threaten it.

thirtyfoot

IrishTrackFan1 wrote: »

1) Establish who runs athletics - if its the ISC then we can all go home since they are useless 2) Move AAI forward in its understanding of the role of the executive versus the volunteer - if the Donegal way of doing things persists then we are similarly screwed and 3) ensure that a good person does not get kicked out and have their name ruined - remember the initial leaks to the newspapers about bullying etc etc? - all completely unfounded.

Ok, that is fair enough. I suppose I am frustrated that so much money has been wasted but if the ISCs role is changed then it won't be wasted. I am dubious of that though. I am also shocked that it was 7 figures, maybe I was naive it would never come to so much.

As regards the grants for future years. ISC will happily let an organisation fall on its sword if look at Basketball Ireland. €1.5m in debt over 3 years. ISC would have seen accounts, saw it happen and let it happen. Now no international basketball teams for foreseeable future. I can't see how having to foot a €1m bill at Govt level won't feed down and affect the ISC and then affect us.