Integrity in Electronic Music.

AkbarTheGreat

Over the past few years I must admit I've become increasingly disillusioned with the integrity of my once beloved dance music, and the plastic pantomine which seems to surround it.

Fact is that using computer software etc. to create music, though undoubtedely difficult, requires a great deal less skill then any other genre of music. Then there is the 'rise of the DJ' promoting someone charged with the simple task of relaying the work of other to the crowd, into a sort of artist of his own making.

I was once electronic music's most fervant supporters, now im sinking in the sea of the peers yibes.

Funkfield

AkbarTheGreat wrote: »

Over the past few years I must admit I've become increasingly disillusioned with the integrity of my once beloved dance music, and the plastic pantomine which seems to surround it.

Fact is that using computer software etc. to create music, though undoubtedely difficult, requires a great deal less skill then any other genre of music. Then there is the 'rise of the DJ' promoting someone charged with the simple task of relaying the work of other to the crowd, into a sort of artist of his own making.

I was once electronic music's most fervant supporters, now im sinking in the sea of the peers yibes.

Been saying this for years. Big electronica fan but was never into "dance" music for a lot of reasons and this figured quite highly among them.

Very easy to see it now. Celebrity DJs everywhere.

How come you never see a new Celebrity Jazz Guitarist? Celebrity Concert Pianist?

Or even just playing in a band.

A decent band.

VinylJunkie

Funkfield wrote: »

How come you never see a new Celebrity Jazz Guitarist? Celebrity Concert Pianist?

You do just not in this forum.


Another Facepalm thread/

AkbarTheGreat

VinylJunkie wrote: »

You do just not in this forum.


Another Facepalm thread/

Prove me wrong then. Sir.

Funkfield

VinylJunkie wrote: »

You do just not in this forum.


Another Facepalm thread/

Yeah, I just checked, I'm in the right forum.

Thanks for the input though.

V. helpful.

Hypertic

Like anything in life its easy to do something badly but takes alot more time to do it well. Hence the reason why there is alot more dance music made now due to the ease with which you can access software and the disposable nature of the mp3 generation.

There are alot of brilliant electronic artists who make top class music and should be revered for it. I think the reason for the "Celebrity Dj" has more to do with the fact the music is played in a club not in the National Concert Hall. I dont think there is the same opportunity for a "Celebrity Pianist" to get the crowd going like there would be for a "Celebrity Dj".

As for the whole djiing thing that is what has us disillusioned most of all. Dublin is a classic example of people who will play other peoples music and try to gain a reputation off it without creating any music themselves.

Although we do agree that its easier to make music with a laptop than it is with a full band, the reason why so many people will never progress beyond playing other peoples tracks is because making music is what dictates how much musical talent you really have.

AkbarTheGreat

Hypertic wrote: »

Like anything in life its easy to do something badly but takes alot more time to do it well. Hence the reason why there is alot more dance music made now due to the ease with which you can access software and the disposable nature of the mp3 generation.

There are alot of brilliant electronic artists who make top class music and should be revered for it. I think the reason for the "Celebrity Dj" has more to do with the fact the music is played in a club not in the National Concert Hall. I dont think there is the same opportunity for a "Celebrity Pianist" to get the crowd going like there would be for a "Celebrity Dj".

As for the whole djiing thing that is what has us disillusioned most of all. Dublin is a classic example of people who will play other peoples music and try to gain a reputation off it without creating any music themselves.

Although we do agree that its easier to make music with a laptop than it is with a full band, the reason why so many people will never progress beyond playing other peoples tracks is because making music is what dictates how much musical talent you really have.

Agreed. To me the DJ should always be the fat, bald bloke in the corner gawking at your missus arse, not the main attraction.

mordeith

AkbarTheGreat wrote: »

Prove me wrong then. Sir.

Popstar to Opera Star anyone?

Jev/N

AkbarTheGreat wrote: »

Fact is that using computer software etc. to create music, though undoubtedely difficult, requires a great deal less skill then any other genre of music.

Eh, no it doesn't; not exactly at least.

If you want to be able to make a decent track, first it would be handy to be classically trained or at the very least, have an ear for chords and scales.

Secondly, when you produce a track, you're creating the whole thing, not just one instrument and you have to make everything work together.

Lastly, plenty of acclaimed artists use computer programs to produce their music, I think, off the top of my head, Enya is one of them...


PS this is just going to be like a rehash of vinyl/cd v laptop

AkbarTheGreat

Jev/N wrote: »

Eh, no it doesn't; not exactly at least.

If you want to be able to make a decent track, first it would be handy to be classically trained or at the very least, have an ear for chords and scales.

Secondly, when you produce a track, you're creating the whole thing, not just one instrument and you have to make everything work together.

Lastly, plenty of acclaimed artists use computer programs to produce their music, I think, off the top of my head, Enya is one of them...


PS this is just going to be like a rehash of vinyl/cd v laptop

Perhaps.

Executive Steve

Funkfield wrote: »

Been saying this for years. Big electronica fan but was never into "dance" music for a lot of reasons and this figured quite highly among them.

Very easy to see it now. Celebrity DJs everywhere.

How come you never see a new Celebrity Jazz Guitarist? Celebrity Concert Pianist?

Or even just playing in a band.

A decent band.

Eh? That post makes zero sense, are you saying the likes of the Gallaghers or Pete Doherty aren't celebrities?

As for preferring electronica to "dance music" any gimp can make a tune, making a decent tune that actually makes 400 people move and keeps up energy levels is a million times harder than just synching LFO's to sample offsets and running everything through dBlue Glitch the way 99% of IDM heads do, which is exactly why Warp haven't done anything remotely interesting in a decade and why the only good stuff on the likes of Planet Mu has been represses of decade old dance music (be it Jungle or Grime) or else pale white-boy retreads of same.

Executive Steve

Jev/N wrote: »

Eh, no it doesn't; not exactly at least.

If you want to be able to make a decent track, first it would be handy to be classically trained or at the very least, have an ear for chords and scales.

Thoroughly disagree, unless you want to add to the gigantic pile of blandly "musical" beatport toss that a million and one second rate producers are spewing out every week.

Executive Steve

Hypertic wrote: »

As for the whole djiing thing that is what has us disillusioned most of all. Dublin is a classic example of people who will play other peoples music and try to gain a reputation off it without creating any music themselves.

I love your tunes, and I'm sure if you were any good at DJ-ing you could be doing that too.

Executive Steve

VinylJunkie wrote: »

You do just not in this forum.


Another Facepalm thread/

They come thick and fast around these parts, to be sure.

jtsuited

it's far easier to be a professional dj and have absolutely no musical talent whatsoever than do anything else (in music that is). different if you're actually producing it.

agree with hypertic that in ireland there are a bunch of dj's who are ridiculously careerist about what they do, yet they don't have any of their own productions to back up their sense of entitlement to success.

they won't last long though. but they do clog up the local scenes which mean people like myself and hypertic have to pretty much have a successful production career before we get a decent paying gig in Ireland.

copeyhagen

loco dice doesnt produce his own tracks, bar the odd remix and is still great fun live and very well respected (i would imagine) worldwide

AkbarTheGreat

jtsuited wrote: »

it's far easier to be a professional dj and have absolutely no musical talent whatsoever than do anything else (in music that is). different if you're actually producing it.

agree with hypertic that in ireland there are a bunch of dj's who are ridiculously careerist about what they do, yet they don't have any of their own productions to back up their sense of entitlement to success.

they won't last long though. but they do clog up the local scenes which mean people like myself and hypertic have to pretty much have a successful production career before we get a decent paying gig in Ireland.

Keep plugging away mate. Its people like the pair of yous that restore what little faith i have in the genre.

P.S. Maybe wear illuminous 3D glasses during your set and get skinnier jeans :pac:

AkbarTheGreat

copeyhagen wrote: »

loco dice doesnt produce his own tracks, bar the odd remix and is still great fun live and very well respected (i would imagine) worldwide

But is he happy.

Executive Steve

jtsuited wrote: »

it's far easier to be a professional dj and have absolutely no musical talent whatsoever than do anything else (in music that is). different if you're actually producing it.

agree with hypertic that in ireland there are a bunch of dj's who are ridiculously careerist about what they do, yet they don't have any of their own productions to back up their sense of entitlement to success.

they won't last long though. but they do clog up the local scenes which mean people like myself and hypertic have to pretty much have a successful production career before we get a decent paying gig in Ireland.

There's also plenty of producers who think that just because they know how to knock up a few loops and flog them through a netlabel that they automatically know how to rock a club and are entitled to get gigs over and above someone with years of experience and a reputation. Newsflash: it doesn't quite work that way.

Executive Steve

(although obviously the fact that any eejit can do a pretty much seamless set using the same cracked copy of Ableton they use to make their tunes with means that the skill gap has somewhat narrowed)

jtsuited

copeyhagen wrote: »

loco dice doesnt produce his own tracks, bar the odd remix and is still great fun live and very well respected (i would imagine) worldwide

ah but you've actually proved my point, because his career is based around 'his' productions which were done by Martin Buttrich.

Very few successful dj's nowadays who don't have some sort of production credentials. Sven Vath hasn't produced much in years but runs the Cocoon imprint. Same for Hawtin and minus.

I think Raresh is one notable exception. But the exception does not prove the rule. not by a long shot.

jtsuited

Executive Steve wrote: »

There's also plenty of producers who think that just because they know how to knock up a few loops and flog them through a netlabel that they automatically know how to rock a club and are entitled to get gigs over and above someone with years of experience and a reputation. Newsflash: it doesn't quite work that way.

absolutely.
btw, i hope i'm not one of those knocking a few loops together producers:D

Executive Steve

jtsuited wrote: »

absolutely.
btw, i hope i'm not one of those knocking a few loops together producers:D

Well "Aviator Dub" on your soundcloud is very nice indeed anyway!

(not that I really know anything about that kind of music mind you)

AkbarTheGreat

Thanks for your contributions, Executive Clogs.

Anyway what the **** kinda era are we in when Deadmau5 has replaced Kraftwek and fukin Ronaldo Villalobos, Daft Punk??

Executive Steve

AkbarTheGreat wrote: »

Thanks for your contributions, Executive Clogs.

Anyway what the **** kinda era are we in when Deadmau5 has replaced Kraftwek and fukin Ronaldo Villalobos, Daft Punk??

Invalid argument really, there's always been ****e music, you're jut old enough to know better now.

I'm willing to put money on you owning or having owned at least one Euphoria compilation in the past.

AkbarTheGreat

Executive Steve wrote: »

Invalid argument really, there's always been ****e music, you're jut old enough to know better now.

I'm willing to put money on you owning or having owned at least one Euphoria compilation in the past.

Then you'd lose. Good point but.

R.Shackleford

Look I think we should just bring it back to where it all began. Jimmy Savil on the ones and twos!!

Hypertic

Dont start with Daft Punk!!!! After hearing how they blatantly lifted their tracks from someone we lost a lot of respect for them:

I do agree Steve that just because you can make a few tracks doesnt mean you're entitled to be headlining clubs but in the case of ourselves and Jeff(Kid Handsome) we could at least offer a set of our own music.

Lastly about what you were saying if we could dj we would be playing out. But for the most part the whole scene in Dublin is generally about who you know or playing for free.We love to dj and in time Im sure we'll spin a few sets as Hypertic but we just see more merit to a set of our own tracks being played.

We respect alot of great djs in Dublin like Sunil and Barry Redsetta for example and it helps they're not hammering our Facebook inbox with a new mix they've done every other week. The people who do it make it look like "I cant make tracks but heres me playing someone elses stuff"

Executive Steve

R.Shackleford wrote: »

Look I think we should just bring it back to where it all began. Jimmy Savil on the ones and twos!!

A legend that man! First guy to ever come up with the idea of charging people in to hear records in a dance hall!

mordeith

AkbarTheGreat wrote: »

Anyway what the **** kinda era are we in when Deadmau5 has replaced Kraftwek and fukin Ronaldo Villalobos, Daft Punk??

A quote from Deadmau5 himself

“It puts me to ****ing sleep, to be quite honest; I don’t really see the technical merit in playing two songs at the same speed together and it bores me to ****ing tears and hopefully, with all due respect to the DJ type that will ****ing go the way of the dinosaur, I'd like them to dis-a-****ing-pear! It's so middle man, they’re like ****ing lawyers! You need them, but they’re ****ing *****. God bless them, they’re my number one customer right, so I’m not gonna go dis every ****ing DJ. But to say you become this massive, "up on a podium" performer by playing other peoples productions, at the same speed as someone else's productions and fading between the two of them, I don’t get it...”

Executive Steve

mordeith wrote: »

A quote from Deadmau5 himself

“It puts me to ****ing sleep, to be quite honest; I don’t really see the technical merit in playing two songs at the same speed together and it bores me to ****ing tears and hopefully, with all due respect to the DJ type that will ****ing go the way of the dinosaur, I'd like them to dis-a-****ing-pear! It's so middle man, they’re like ****ing lawyers! You need them, but they’re ****ing *****. God bless them, they’re my number one customer right, so I’m not gonna go dis every ****ing DJ. But to say you become this massive, "up on a podium" performer by playing other peoples productions, at the same speed as someone else's productions and fading between the two of them, I don’t get it...”

How is that quote relevant?

Executive Steve

Hypertic wrote: »

Dont start with Daft Punk!!!! After hearing how they blatantly lifted their tracks from someone we lost a lot of respect for them:

I guess we have completely opposite tastes and completely opposing aesthetics underlying those tastes, but it does sort of "fit" that you would denigrate the idea of sampling as well the concept of deejaying records, because they're really not that vastly different on a conceptual level.

*edit*

The tune is pony, obviously enough, but not because it was cobbled together from a handful of other tunes, IMO.

Executive Steve

Hypertic wrote: »

I do agree Steve that just because you can make a few tracks doesnt mean you're entitled to be headlining clubs but in the case of ourselves and Jeff(Kid Handsome) we could at least offer a set of our own music.

Lastly about what you were saying if we could dj we would be playing out. But for the most part the whole scene in Dublin is generally about who you know or playing for free.We love to dj and in time Im sure we'll spin a few sets as Hypertic but we just see more merit to a set of our own tracks being played.

We respect alot of great djs in Dublin like Sunil and Barry Redsetta for example and it helps they're not hammering our Facebook inbox with a new mix they've done every other week. The people who do it make it look like "I cant make tracks but heres me playing someone elses stuff"

No offence, and don't get me wrong, because I really like your stuff - but who the hell wants to hear an entire set of tunes by one artist, whether or not the artist in question is playing them? Sounds like a recipe for complete boredom to me... Leave that whole "rock-ist" viewpoint back in the 80's where it died, IMO...

As for people spamming your inboxes with mixes, they're just doing that in the vain hope that a promoter will give them a gig, it's hardly because they're trying to publically validate their ability to beatmatch...



*edit*

PS knock up a few 85 BPM edits of your tunes!

Executive Steve

AkbarTheGreat wrote: »

Agreed. To me the DJ should always be the fat, bald bloke in the corner gawking at your missus arse, not the main attraction.

You'd LOVE my sets so.

mordeith

Executive Steve wrote: »

How is that quote relevant?

Its relevant because of the comment made about the state of affairs being the likes of Deadmau5 replacing Krafwerk and the 'celebrity DJ' culture. The fact is that producers are invariably asked to perform Dj sets once they have a few big hits (Fedde Le Grande could barely string two records together before he was asked to do gigs after 'Put Your Hands Up').
Deadmau5 is a decent producer and he programms some of his own music production software. I just think its unfair to lambaste him and throw all modern producers/DJs into the same category, i.e talentless glory hounds

electrogrimey

Funkfield wrote: »

How come you never see a new Celebrity Jazz Guitarist? Celebrity Concert Pianist?

If you appreciated jazz or classical you'd know you're completely and utterly talking arse-originated rhetoric. I'm assuming you haven't heard of any of the following, but I have, along with millions of others who appreciate more than one genre or music.

Jazz:

Wes Montgomery
Django Reinhardtp
Joscho Stephan

Even on a local Dublin level, Stephan Galt is very well known, with a great album behind him. I won't even bother listing some of the super famous pianists (Ever heard of Mozart, Liszt, Chopin, and in the modern day, pianists can fill halls fifty times the size of the Good Bits, does that not make you a celebrity?)

AkbarTheGreat wrote: »

OThen there is the 'rise of the DJ' promoting someone charged with the simple task of relaying the work of other to the crowd, into a sort of artist of his own making.

DJs don't call themselves artists. Producers who DJ half of their stuff, and half of other people's, do, because they are artists. They make music, that's what an artist is.

AkbarTheGreat wrote: »

Agreed. To me the DJ should always be the fat, bald bloke in the corner gawking at your missus arse, not the main attraction.

What does the appearance of a DJ matter? Seems like you can't respect a DJ just because they're wearing skinny jeans. In 90% of clubs the DJ is in the backround anyway, people notice the music, but in most cases couldn't even remember what the DJ looks like, let alone their name.

AkbarTheGreat wrote: »

Anyway what the **** kinda era are we in when Deadmau5 has replaced Kraftwek and fukin Ronaldo Villalobos, Daft Punk??

Maybe the era that's 10/20 years later than Kraftwerk & Daft Punk...Jesus. Common sense goes a long way in public debate mate, try using it.

copeyhagen

i hate the mau5 but i think that interview he gave may have been 90% fake when it "appeared" on the net.

as for daft punk, everybody knows them for what they are.

reminds me of the justice pic of them faking a live set supposedly

midi controller unplugged.

everbody has owned a euphoria cd at some stage.

prizes for the worst ones owned?

maybe me for "hard house euphoria" i got before i grew that one important hair on my testicles and started calling myself a man

Executive Steve

mordeith wrote: »

Its relevant because of the comment made about the state of affairs being the likes of Deadmau5 replacing Krafwerk and the 'celebrity DJ' culture. The fact is that producers are invariably asked to perform Dj sets once they have a few big hits (Fedde Le Grande could barely string two records together before he was asked to do gigs after 'Put Your Hands Up').
Deadmau5 is a decent producer and he programms some of his own music production software. I just think its unfair to lambaste him and throw all modern producers/DJs into the same category, i.e talentless glory hounds

Deadmau5 makes overcompressed funkless bilge for kids who can't even be bothered trawling through Beatport to find out how average he is.

What the hell do Kraftwerk have to do with "celebrity DJ" culture?

mordeith

Executive Steve wrote: »

Deadmau5 makes overcompressed funkless bilge for kids who can't even be bothered trawling through Beatport to find out how average he is.

That's just your opinion. I'm sure the 'kids' would be equally as disillusioned with your taste in music

Executive Steve wrote: »

What the hell do Kraftwerk have to do with "celebrity DJ" culture?

I don't know. I was merely responding to the poster who originally brought them up in comparison to Deadmau5

electrogrimey

mordeith wrote: »

talentless glory hounds

I'm fairly sure Joel Zimmerman is an anagram of talentless glory hound.

He's probably the worst of them all, seeing as how he considers himself better than everyone else because he plays live, etc. etc.

Producers play DJ sets because the crowd prefer DJ sets to live sets. Live sets should be saved to purely dance festivals, where they'll be appreciated. On an ordinary clubnight, a DJ, even if he is a big name producer, still has to fulfill the same roll as the resident DJ, which is to entertain a crowd, half of whom won't recognise one track the whole night. If all producers only played their own stuff, clubbing would fall flat on its face, as real dance fans/DJs can't support the nightlife economy on their own.

Hypertic

Executive Steve wrote: »

No offence, and don't get me wrong, because I really like your stuff - but who the hell wants to hear an entire set of tunes by one artist, whether or not the artist in question is playing them? Sounds like a recipe for complete boredom to me... Leave that whole "rock-ist" viewpoint back in the 80's where it died, IMO...

As for people spamming your inboxes with mixes, they're just doing that in the vain hope that a promoter will give them a gig, it's hardly because they're trying to publically validate their ability to beatmatch...



*edit*

PS knock up a few 85 BPM edits of your tunes!

Nah man we wont fall out with you . Its a nice lively discussion.

We're not sure if its because its the type of music you play or artists you like but what the "rock-ist" thing that you think died in the 80's is actually more popular than ever in Techno/House music.

Artists like Joris Voorn,Paul Kalkbrenner,Matthew Johnson,Paul Ritch,Reboot, Redshape,Nathan Fake,Shed&The Field are all brilliant musical talents who play only their own tracks and its what music should be about now. Pushing the boundaries and separating yourself from the crowd. If you can rock the dancefloor with an hour of your own stuff why would you play someone elses tracks?

We're not putting djs down as we love djiing ourselves, but djiing has been put on a pedastal and with the accesability of software anybody into electronic music should/could be an "artist" not just a dj or producer.

In our humble opinions.

On a side note even though Daft Punk 'sampled' they reslly just completely lifted stuff from other tracks. Im sure its legit and paid for but its hardly admirable when its 99.9% the same as the original track.

electrogrimey

mordeith wrote: »

That's just your opinion. I'm sure the 'kids' would be equally as disillusioned with your taste in music

I'm fairly sure you'd class me as a 'kid', skinny jeans, fixed-gear bike, Macbook running Traktor Pro, softspot for Erol Alkan, yet I think Dead mow 5ive is shite, and I love the tracks Steve puts up around the place.

R.Shackleford

This thread is great criac. anyway in regards to that dread****5 lads quote. so if there were no djs and only "producers" like him playing electronic music, how the hell could people afford to go out on a regular basis! hes charging 40 F*ckin euro in for his gig. and another thing also check this out... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZC3EQmXAxU0

And another thing why cant i get no tang around here.

mordeith

To be honest, whatever people think of any producer/Dj is irrelevant. Its all just a matter of taste. Whatever crap people listen to when they're younger doesn't matter as this is what served to get them invloved in the dance/electronic scene in the first place. We can all look back and cringe at some of the stuff we liked years ago but surely the music that people are giving out about is serving the same purpose for youger people now. I'm sure in 5 years time they'll be having a discussion about how awful the music they used to listen to was.

Hypertic

electrogrimey wrote: »

Producers play DJ sets because the crowd prefer DJ sets to live sets. Live sets should be saved to purely dance festivals, where they'll be appreciated. On an ordinary clubnight, a DJ, even if he is a big name producer, still has to fulfill the same roll as the resident DJ, which is to entertain a crowd, half of whom won't recognise one track the whole night. If all producers only played their own stuff, clubbing would fall flat on its face, as real dance fans/DJs can't support the nightlife economy on their own.

I dont see how it matters what someone plays. If an hour of brilliant music consists of all one persons productions or all of someone elses tracks what difference does it make?
We've seen some great Live sets that top anyones djs sets and we'd much rather see a foreign act playing Live than a dj set if the standard of the music played is the same.

Also trying to get our heads around why "If all producers only played their own stuff, clubbing would fall flat on its face, as real dance fans/DJs can't support the nightlife economy on their own"

SteveDon

Executive Steve wrote: »

No offence, and don't get me wrong, because I really like your stuff - but who the hell wants to hear an entire set of tunes by one artist!

Sorry mate but why wouldnt you? I always prefer hearing and playing live sets. Not that I dont like dj sets, dont get me wrong, but when i pay top dollar to see and artist i admire i think its a much more satisfying experience if they are showcasing what got them to where they are now.

On another note, as discussed by Peter and Jeff the Dublin scene is starting to really stifle my creativity. Why is it that when the big international acts come to Dublin that we dont showcase the talents of our own homegrown producers rather than, without naming any names, djs that are really only where they are at now because of who they know rather than how much actual talent they have. Im not going to rant on saying that I should be playing more and better gigs, but surely the likes of Jeff and hypertic should be? No? For me everytime i play a gig i get inspiration for the studio and its what drives me to make more tunes, as much as I get a kick out of just making tunes to listen to in my bedroom or to show to my friends, playing them out live and feeling the reaction from a crowd is what drives me to make more, as there is no better feeling. I think a lot of people in Dublin need to take a look at themselves and ask if they are actually in it for the music.

Rant over. For now anyways.

electrogrimey

Hypertic wrote: »

I dont see how it matters what someone plays. If an hour of brilliant music consists of all one persons productions or all of someone elses tracks what difference does it make?
We've seen some great Live sets that top anyones djs sets and we'd much rather see a foreign act playing Live than a dj set if the standard of the music played is the same.

Also trying to get our heads around why "If all producers only played their own stuff, clubbing would fall flat on its face, as real dance fans/DJs can't support the nightlife economy on their own"

I'd clearly prefer to see one of my favourite producers play live, and I'd say most people on this forum would. However, at a lot of gigs, especially when regular nights get guests in, a lot of the crowd aren't there for the guest, and they still want to hear the handful of tunes they recognise, like every week.

The dance scene (in Dublin anyway) is supported by the dance clubs being packed full of people who aren't there for the music. Most people in these clubs are there for their friends, the drink, and the commerical user-friendly house. If the DJs in these clubs all played their own stuff, the crowds wouldn't come, and there'd be no more regular nights, only the likes of 515's nights.

Jev/N

AkbarTheGreat wrote: »

Perhaps.

What a well thought out and reasoned argument :pac:

Executive Steve wrote: »

Thoroughly disagree, unless you want to add to the gigantic pile of blandly "musical" beatport toss that a million and one second rate producers are spewing out every week.

No, I agree with you. Music is easier to make these days because it is cheaper and more accessible to produce but that doesn't mean good electronic music isn't easy to make - just because it's on beatport doesn't make it good and just because it's in the top 10 (god forbid) doesn't make it so either

My point is you can't tar all with the same brush and there many musical geniuses out there but it can often come down to a matter of personal preference

I understand the OP's argument about how things have changed in the last few years, and how there's more sh!te out there that ever before, but programs aren't easier than anything before, creating and sampling isn't (really); it's just cheaper and easier to find the means to do it

billybigunz

AkbarTheGreat wrote: »

Over the past few years I must admit I've become increasingly disillusioned with the integrity of my once beloved dance music, and the plastic pantomine which seems to surround it.

That made me gag. Integrity? Plastic pantomine?

Its a bit of mindless thump for people to dance to pissed or high in clubs.

joshjoshjosh

electrogrimey wrote: »

I'm fairly sure Joel Zimmerman is an anagram of talentless glory hound.
On an ordinary clubnight, a DJ, even if he is a big name producer, still has to fulfill the same roll as the resident DJ, which is to entertain a crowd, half of whom won't recognise one track the whole night. If all producers only played their own stuff, clubbing would fall flat on its face, as real dance fans/DJs can't support the nightlife economy on their own.

What does that mean, im sure if there was an established producer that the crowd had gathered to see they would be fairly familiar with a few of their songs.

joshjoshjosh

electrogrimey wrote: »

I'd clearly prefer to see one of my favourite producers play live, and I'd say most people on this forum would. However, at a lot of gigs, especially when regular nights get guests in, a lot of the crowd aren't there for the guest, and they still want to hear the handful of tunes they recognise, like every week.

The dance scene (in Dublin anyway) is supported by the dance clubs being packed full of people who aren't there for the music. Most people in these clubs are there for their friends, the drink, and the commerical user-friendly house. If the DJs in these clubs all played their own stuff, the crowds wouldn't come, and there'd be no more regular nights, only the likes of 515's nights.

i agree with this though