Integrity in Electronic Music.

AkbarTheGreat

Over the past few years I must admit I've become increasingly disillusioned with the integrity of my once beloved dance music, and the plastic pantomine which seems to surround it.

Fact is that using computer software etc. to create music, though undoubtedely difficult, requires a great deal less skill then any other genre of music. Then there is the 'rise of the DJ' promoting someone charged with the simple task of relaying the work of other to the crowd, into a sort of artist of his own making.

I was once electronic music's most fervant supporters, now im sinking in the sea of the peers yibes.

Funkfield

AkbarTheGreat wrote: »

Over the past few years I must admit I've become increasingly disillusioned with the integrity of my once beloved dance music, and the plastic pantomine which seems to surround it.

Fact is that using computer software etc. to create music, though undoubtedely difficult, requires a great deal less skill then any other genre of music. Then there is the 'rise of the DJ' promoting someone charged with the simple task of relaying the work of other to the crowd, into a sort of artist of his own making.

I was once electronic music's most fervant supporters, now im sinking in the sea of the peers yibes.

Been saying this for years. Big electronica fan but was never into "dance" music for a lot of reasons and this figured quite highly among them.

Very easy to see it now. Celebrity DJs everywhere.

How come you never see a new Celebrity Jazz Guitarist? Celebrity Concert Pianist?

Or even just playing in a band.

A decent band.

VinylJunkie

Funkfield wrote: »

How come you never see a new Celebrity Jazz Guitarist? Celebrity Concert Pianist?

You do just not in this forum.


Another Facepalm thread/

AkbarTheGreat

VinylJunkie wrote: »

You do just not in this forum.


Another Facepalm thread/

Prove me wrong then. Sir.

Funkfield

VinylJunkie wrote: »

You do just not in this forum.


Another Facepalm thread/

Yeah, I just checked, I'm in the right forum.

Thanks for the input though.

V. helpful.

Hypertic

Like anything in life its easy to do something badly but takes alot more time to do it well. Hence the reason why there is alot more dance music made now due to the ease with which you can access software and the disposable nature of the mp3 generation.

There are alot of brilliant electronic artists who make top class music and should be revered for it. I think the reason for the "Celebrity Dj" has more to do with the fact the music is played in a club not in the National Concert Hall. I dont think there is the same opportunity for a "Celebrity Pianist" to get the crowd going like there would be for a "Celebrity Dj".

As for the whole djiing thing that is what has us disillusioned most of all. Dublin is a classic example of people who will play other peoples music and try to gain a reputation off it without creating any music themselves.

Although we do agree that its easier to make music with a laptop than it is with a full band, the reason why so many people will never progress beyond playing other peoples tracks is because making music is what dictates how much musical talent you really have.

AkbarTheGreat

Hypertic wrote: »

Like anything in life its easy to do something badly but takes alot more time to do it well. Hence the reason why there is alot more dance music made now due to the ease with which you can access software and the disposable nature of the mp3 generation.

There are alot of brilliant electronic artists who make top class music and should be revered for it. I think the reason for the "Celebrity Dj" has more to do with the fact the music is played in a club not in the National Concert Hall. I dont think there is the same opportunity for a "Celebrity Pianist" to get the crowd going like there would be for a "Celebrity Dj".

As for the whole djiing thing that is what has us disillusioned most of all. Dublin is a classic example of people who will play other peoples music and try to gain a reputation off it without creating any music themselves.

Although we do agree that its easier to make music with a laptop than it is with a full band, the reason why so many people will never progress beyond playing other peoples tracks is because making music is what dictates how much musical talent you really have.

Agreed. To me the DJ should always be the fat, bald bloke in the corner gawking at your missus arse, not the main attraction.

mordeith

AkbarTheGreat wrote: »

Prove me wrong then. Sir.

Popstar to Opera Star anyone?

Jev/N

AkbarTheGreat wrote: »

Fact is that using computer software etc. to create music, though undoubtedely difficult, requires a great deal less skill then any other genre of music.

Eh, no it doesn't; not exactly at least.

If you want to be able to make a decent track, first it would be handy to be classically trained or at the very least, have an ear for chords and scales.

Secondly, when you produce a track, you're creating the whole thing, not just one instrument and you have to make everything work together.

Lastly, plenty of acclaimed artists use computer programs to produce their music, I think, off the top of my head, Enya is one of them...


PS this is just going to be like a rehash of vinyl/cd v laptop

AkbarTheGreat

Jev/N wrote: »

Eh, no it doesn't; not exactly at least.

If you want to be able to make a decent track, first it would be handy to be classically trained or at the very least, have an ear for chords and scales.

Secondly, when you produce a track, you're creating the whole thing, not just one instrument and you have to make everything work together.

Lastly, plenty of acclaimed artists use computer programs to produce their music, I think, off the top of my head, Enya is one of them...


PS this is just going to be like a rehash of vinyl/cd v laptop

Perhaps.

Executive Steve

Funkfield wrote: »

Been saying this for years. Big electronica fan but was never into "dance" music for a lot of reasons and this figured quite highly among them.

Very easy to see it now. Celebrity DJs everywhere.

How come you never see a new Celebrity Jazz Guitarist? Celebrity Concert Pianist?

Or even just playing in a band.

A decent band.

Eh? That post makes zero sense, are you saying the likes of the Gallaghers or Pete Doherty aren't celebrities?

As for preferring electronica to "dance music" any gimp can make a tune, making a decent tune that actually makes 400 people move and keeps up energy levels is a million times harder than just synching LFO's to sample offsets and running everything through dBlue Glitch the way 99% of IDM heads do, which is exactly why Warp haven't done anything remotely interesting in a decade and why the only good stuff on the likes of Planet Mu has been represses of decade old dance music (be it Jungle or Grime) or else pale white-boy retreads of same.

Executive Steve

Jev/N wrote: »

Eh, no it doesn't; not exactly at least.

If you want to be able to make a decent track, first it would be handy to be classically trained or at the very least, have an ear for chords and scales.

Thoroughly disagree, unless you want to add to the gigantic pile of blandly "musical" beatport toss that a million and one second rate producers are spewing out every week.

Executive Steve

Hypertic wrote: »

As for the whole djiing thing that is what has us disillusioned most of all. Dublin is a classic example of people who will play other peoples music and try to gain a reputation off it without creating any music themselves.

I love your tunes, and I'm sure if you were any good at DJ-ing you could be doing that too.

Executive Steve

VinylJunkie wrote: »

You do just not in this forum.


Another Facepalm thread/

They come thick and fast around these parts, to be sure.

jtsuited

it's far easier to be a professional dj and have absolutely no musical talent whatsoever than do anything else (in music that is). different if you're actually producing it.

agree with hypertic that in ireland there are a bunch of dj's who are ridiculously careerist about what they do, yet they don't have any of their own productions to back up their sense of entitlement to success.

they won't last long though. but they do clog up the local scenes which mean people like myself and hypertic have to pretty much have a successful production career before we get a decent paying gig in Ireland.

copeyhagen

loco dice doesnt produce his own tracks, bar the odd remix and is still great fun live and very well respected (i would imagine) worldwide

AkbarTheGreat

jtsuited wrote: »

it's far easier to be a professional dj and have absolutely no musical talent whatsoever than do anything else (in music that is). different if you're actually producing it.

agree with hypertic that in ireland there are a bunch of dj's who are ridiculously careerist about what they do, yet they don't have any of their own productions to back up their sense of entitlement to success.

they won't last long though. but they do clog up the local scenes which mean people like myself and hypertic have to pretty much have a successful production career before we get a decent paying gig in Ireland.

Keep plugging away mate. Its people like the pair of yous that restore what little faith i have in the genre.

P.S. Maybe wear illuminous 3D glasses during your set and get skinnier jeans :pac:

AkbarTheGreat

copeyhagen wrote: »

loco dice doesnt produce his own tracks, bar the odd remix and is still great fun live and very well respected (i would imagine) worldwide

But is he happy.

Executive Steve

jtsuited wrote: »

it's far easier to be a professional dj and have absolutely no musical talent whatsoever than do anything else (in music that is). different if you're actually producing it.

agree with hypertic that in ireland there are a bunch of dj's who are ridiculously careerist about what they do, yet they don't have any of their own productions to back up their sense of entitlement to success.

they won't last long though. but they do clog up the local scenes which mean people like myself and hypertic have to pretty much have a successful production career before we get a decent paying gig in Ireland.

There's also plenty of producers who think that just because they know how to knock up a few loops and flog them through a netlabel that they automatically know how to rock a club and are entitled to get gigs over and above someone with years of experience and a reputation. Newsflash: it doesn't quite work that way.

Executive Steve

(although obviously the fact that any eejit can do a pretty much seamless set using the same cracked copy of Ableton they use to make their tunes with means that the skill gap has somewhat narrowed)

jtsuited

copeyhagen wrote: »

loco dice doesnt produce his own tracks, bar the odd remix and is still great fun live and very well respected (i would imagine) worldwide

ah but you've actually proved my point, because his career is based around 'his' productions which were done by Martin Buttrich.

Very few successful dj's nowadays who don't have some sort of production credentials. Sven Vath hasn't produced much in years but runs the Cocoon imprint. Same for Hawtin and minus.

I think Raresh is one notable exception. But the exception does not prove the rule. not by a long shot.

jtsuited

Executive Steve wrote: »

There's also plenty of producers who think that just because they know how to knock up a few loops and flog them through a netlabel that they automatically know how to rock a club and are entitled to get gigs over and above someone with years of experience and a reputation. Newsflash: it doesn't quite work that way.

absolutely.
btw, i hope i'm not one of those knocking a few loops together producers:D

Executive Steve

jtsuited wrote: »

absolutely.
btw, i hope i'm not one of those knocking a few loops together producers:D

Well "Aviator Dub" on your soundcloud is very nice indeed anyway!

(not that I really know anything about that kind of music mind you)

AkbarTheGreat

Thanks for your contributions, Executive Clogs.

Anyway what the **** kinda era are we in when Deadmau5 has replaced Kraftwek and fukin Ronaldo Villalobos, Daft Punk??

Executive Steve

AkbarTheGreat wrote: »

Thanks for your contributions, Executive Clogs.

Anyway what the **** kinda era are we in when Deadmau5 has replaced Kraftwek and fukin Ronaldo Villalobos, Daft Punk??

Invalid argument really, there's always been ****e music, you're jut old enough to know better now.

I'm willing to put money on you owning or having owned at least one Euphoria compilation in the past.

AkbarTheGreat

Executive Steve wrote: »

Invalid argument really, there's always been ****e music, you're jut old enough to know better now.

I'm willing to put money on you owning or having owned at least one Euphoria compilation in the past.

Then you'd lose. Good point but.

R.Shackleford

Look I think we should just bring it back to where it all began. Jimmy Savil on the ones and twos!!

Hypertic

Dont start with Daft Punk!!!! After hearing how they blatantly lifted their tracks from someone we lost a lot of respect for them:

I do agree Steve that just because you can make a few tracks doesnt mean you're entitled to be headlining clubs but in the case of ourselves and Jeff(Kid Handsome) we could at least offer a set of our own music.

Lastly about what you were saying if we could dj we would be playing out. But for the most part the whole scene in Dublin is generally about who you know or playing for free.We love to dj and in time Im sure we'll spin a few sets as Hypertic but we just see more merit to a set of our own tracks being played.

We respect alot of great djs in Dublin like Sunil and Barry Redsetta for example and it helps they're not hammering our Facebook inbox with a new mix they've done every other week. The people who do it make it look like "I cant make tracks but heres me playing someone elses stuff"

Executive Steve

R.Shackleford wrote: »

Look I think we should just bring it back to where it all began. Jimmy Savil on the ones and twos!!

A legend that man! First guy to ever come up with the idea of charging people in to hear records in a dance hall!

mordeith

AkbarTheGreat wrote: »

Anyway what the **** kinda era are we in when Deadmau5 has replaced Kraftwek and fukin Ronaldo Villalobos, Daft Punk??

A quote from Deadmau5 himself

“It puts me to ****ing sleep, to be quite honest; I don’t really see the technical merit in playing two songs at the same speed together and it bores me to ****ing tears and hopefully, with all due respect to the DJ type that will ****ing go the way of the dinosaur, I'd like them to dis-a-****ing-pear! It's so middle man, they’re like ****ing lawyers! You need them, but they’re ****ing *****. God bless them, they’re my number one customer right, so I’m not gonna go dis every ****ing DJ. But to say you become this massive, "up on a podium" performer by playing other peoples productions, at the same speed as someone else's productions and fading between the two of them, I don’t get it...”

Executive Steve

mordeith wrote: »

A quote from Deadmau5 himself

“It puts me to ****ing sleep, to be quite honest; I don’t really see the technical merit in playing two songs at the same speed together and it bores me to ****ing tears and hopefully, with all due respect to the DJ type that will ****ing go the way of the dinosaur, I'd like them to dis-a-****ing-pear! It's so middle man, they’re like ****ing lawyers! You need them, but they’re ****ing *****. God bless them, they’re my number one customer right, so I’m not gonna go dis every ****ing DJ. But to say you become this massive, "up on a podium" performer by playing other peoples productions, at the same speed as someone else's productions and fading between the two of them, I don’t get it...”

How is that quote relevant?