Some form of Public protest against the public sector unions

dromdrom

Anyone think there would be any support for this?

galway2007

dont worry you will get your chance as within the next 6 weeks there will be no dole or pension paid out as they plan to take the people who wonk in that area out on a all out strike for as long as it takes so i am sure this will lead to protest and unrest on our street

killiank

Id support it

dromdrom

Was just looking at the 'escalation of public sector industrial action' reports this morning and to be honest was disgusted. Remember looking at the pictures of the Public Sector marches and thinking that there is a good chance that the voice of the silent hard working majority is going to be lost in all this. Surely there must be some other way for the average person (Public and Private sector because surely there must be people in the public sector who see how discgaceful this is) to let themselves be heard and stop these charlatans from hijacking our weak political system and sending this country back to the 80's.

galway2007

by supporting it you will put pressure on the goverement to back down or have an election so i think there are going to be no winners

galway2007

dromdrom wrote: »

Was just looking at the 'escalation of public sector industrial action' reports this morning and to be honest was disgusted. Remember looking at the pictures of the Public Sector marches and thinking that there is a good chance that the voice of the silent hard working majority is going to be lost in all this. Surely there must be some other way for the average person (Public and Private sector because surely there must be people in the public sector who see how discgaceful this is) to let themselves be heard and stop these charlatans from hijacking our weak political system and sending this country back to the 80's.

But if you were a lower paid public sector and you are told that the pay cut would hit the higher paid hardest but then they back away from that and the highest paid take the smallest cut would you like it????
This government is protecting the rich and higher paid and that is not good enof

dromdrom

galway2007 wrote: »

by supporting it you will put pressure on the goverement to back down or have an election so i think there are going to be no winners

Have to differ a goverment brought down by the need for more public sector reform is hardly going to be replaced by a goverment willing to cave to public sector unions.

gandalf

Well if its during a week the majority of workers in this country will not be able to attend as we are too busy trying to hold onto our jobs at the moment, which is proving difficult as we have a union driven public sector hell bent on flushing the country down the toilet ably backed by the Financial institutions who are strangling business to death with the credit freeze.

If people are angered enough to get out onto the streets I don't think it will be pretty and it could lead to violence.

Head The Wall

deadtiger wrote: »

If people are angered enough to get out onto the streets I don't think it will be pretty and it could lead to violence.

Well we know where these people on strike will be, I for one have no problem saving up eggs for when this happens

miju

Head The Wall wrote: »

Well we know where these people on strike will be, I for one have no problem saving up eggs for when this happens

LMFAO :p:p:p:p:p

Stark

galway2007 wrote: »

dont worry you will get your chance as within the next 6 weeks there will be no dole or pension paid out as they plan to take the people who wonk in that area out on a all out strike for as long as it takes so i am sure this will lead to protest and unrest on our street

Not getting enough attention with the "show up and do no work for 4 hours" protests?

rightwingdub

There's a site on facebook called protest aginst public sector protests, I'd defintely protest against public sector strikes.

gandalf

Stark wrote: »

Not getting enough attention with the "show up and do no work for 4 hours" protests?

Well at least its a proper strike not this pseudo "its not in my contract so I ain't doing it" strike.

The best form of protest against this is to ensure you contact your local government TD's and ensure they know you do not want them to buckle and give in to this union pressure. Tell them that you support the strongest possible response to any actions by the unions.

Flex

deadtiger wrote: »

Well at least its a proper strike not this pseudo "its not in my contract so I ain't doing it" strike.

The best form of protest against this is to ensure you contact your local government TD's and ensure they know you do not want them to buckle and give in to this union pressure. Tell them that you support the strongest possible response to any actions by the unions.

Have a Fianna Fail, Fine Gael and Labour TD representing my constituency. Ill be emailing the FF and FG TD's when I get home to say I support any government action to face down the unions (I did so before the December budget as well). Wont bother emailing the Labour TD, waste of time.

gandalf

Well I'll be contacting Labour myself as a former member of the party I feel that their alignment to the unions is doing them extreme damage and is going to cost them dearly at the next election. I certainly will not be giving them any preference (its normally 1st) if they continue their support of the fat cat deluded leadership of the unions.

largepants

galway2007 wrote: »

But if you were a lower paid public sector and you are told that the pay cut would hit the higher paid hardest but then they back away from that and the highest paid take the smallest cut would you like it????
This government is protecting the rich and higher paid and that is not good enof

Seriously galway2007 don't waste your breath. These people have their mind made up regarding the public sector worker. They are just going around with a huge chip on their soldier because they wanted a part of the Celtic Tiger and refusing to take a low paid job like that of a Public Servant.

Personally I just laugh at them. I'm happy out in my 'job for life' with a wonderful pension to look forward to in years to come. Amazing how this job for life and wonderful pension wasn't even considered in the good times. Now all these posters come out of the woodwork with their big green heads on them spouting absolute bunkem.

My advice galway2007 - keep your energys for the strikes ahead. Its better served there than answering the green eyed monsters on these boards.

Iomega Man

seems like the Fianna Fail plan to have us all at one anothers throats is definately working......

Flex

deadtiger wrote: »

Well I'll be contacting Labour myself as a former member of the party I feel that their alignment to the unions is doing them extreme damage and is going to cost them dearly at the next election. I certainly will not be giving them any preference (its normally 1st) if they continue their support of the fat cat deluded leadership of the unions.

Thats my number 1 issue with Labour at the moment, theyre close alignment to the unions. They really need to distance themselves from them. Joan Burton is my Labour TD, gave her my 2nd preference in the last general election, but finding it hard to support them at the moment

Flex

Iomega Man wrote: »

seems like the Fianna Fail plan to have us all at one anothers throats is definately working......

In fairness though, people can think for themselves. Its not a case of everyone being manipulated and this all a big FF smoke screen. The country is providing welfare benefits and public services way beyond what it can afford, we're "living way beyond our means", to borrow an old phrase. The unions want us to do what Greece is doing at the moment, which is proving a complete failure

Flex

largepants wrote: »

Seriously galway2007 don't waste your breath. These people have their mind made up regarding the public sector worker. They are just going around with a huge chip on their soldier because they wanted a part of the Celtic Tiger and refusing to take a low paid job like that of a Public Servant.

Personally I just laugh at them. I'm happy out in my 'job for life' with a wonderful pension to look forward to in years to come. Amazing how this job for life and wonderful pension wasn't even considered in the good times. Now all these posters come out of the woodwork with their big green heads on them spouting absolute bunkem.

My advice galway2007 - keep your energys for the strikes ahead. Its better served there than answering the green eyed monsters on these boards.

:rolleyes:

KerranJast

Iomega Man wrote: »

seems like the Fianna Fail plan to have us all at one anothers throats is definately working......

If there was an election in the morning and FF were turfed out I'd want the new Govt to crack down even harder on the Unions. You only have to look at Greece to see an example of what delaying taking tough decisions and pandering to trade unions leads to. It's not fair that the lower PS are taking a hit but it has to be done.
I fully expect new taxes and a wider tax net in the next Budget which will negate the need for bigger public spending cuts.

deise blue

Flex wrote: »

Thats my number 1 issue with Labour at the moment, theyre close alignment to the unions. They really need to distance themselves from them. Joan Burton is my Labour TD, gave her my 2nd preference in the last general election, but finding it hard to support them at the moment

The most coherent reason for Labour's surge in the polls is that Public Servants are considering deserting FF and FG in droves come the next election given both parties stated stance on pay cuts , traditionally as we all know Labour have strong ties with the Trade Unions which to my mind is why they are showing so strongly in the polls as PS workers are gravitating towards them.

murphaph

largepants wrote: »

Seriously galway2007 don't waste your breath. These people have their mind made up regarding the public sector worker. They are just going around with a huge chip on their soldier because they wanted a part of the Celtic Tiger and refusing to take a low paid job like that of a Public Servant.

Personally I just laugh at them. I'm happy out in my 'job for life' with a wonderful pension to look forward to in years to come. Amazing how this job for life and wonderful pension wasn't even considered in the good times. Now all these posters come out of the woodwork with their big green heads on them spouting absolute bunkem.

My advice galway2007 - keep your energys for the strikes ahead. Its better served there than answering the green eyed monsters on these boards.

Well done Soldier. What happens when the money from these green heads runs out? It's already falling short of your salary "entitlements" to the tune of 20bn a year!

gandalf

Iomega Man wrote: »

seems like the Fianna Fail plan to have us all at one anothers throats is definately working......

If FF were capable of such planning then we wouldn't find ourselves in the complete and utter mess we are now in.

The basic fact is FF were like a shopaholic with a unlimited credit card. They spent without planning or thinking or considering that the good times would end.

The_Honeybadger

largepants wrote: »

Seriously galway2007 don't waste your breath. These people have their mind made up regarding the public sector worker. They are just going around with a huge chip on their soldier because they wanted a part of the Celtic Tiger and refusing to take a low paid job like that of a Public Servant.

Personally I just laugh at them. I'm happy out in my 'job for life' with a wonderful pension to look forward to in years to come. Amazing how this job for life and wonderful pension wasn't even considered in the good times. Now all these posters come out of the woodwork with their big green heads on them spouting absolute bunkem.

My advice galway2007 - keep your energys for the strikes ahead. Its better served there than answering the green eyed monsters on these boards.

Both these nonsensical myths have been debunked here many times yet PS continue to spout them out, brainwashed by their unions. PS average wages are higher and always have been, and the PS had no problem whatsoever recruiting during the boom, oversubscribed by thousands for every recruitment campaign. Best of luck to you with your job for life, glad for you but don't play the "look at poorly paid me" card and "nobody wanted my job in the good times" cos it is utter rubbish.

largepants

mickeyk wrote: »

Both these nonsensical myths have been debunked here many times yet PS continue to spout them out, brainwashed by their unions. PS average wages are higher and always have been, and the PS had no problem whatsoever recruiting during the boom, oversubscribed by thousands for every recruitment campaign. Best of luck to you with your job for life, glad for you but don't play the "look at poorly paid me" card and "nobody wanted my job in the good times" cos it is utter rubbish.

For a start I'm not brainwashed by any Union. I'm not even a member of a Union.

Sure you're fellow posters have suggested a demonstration as suggested by the title of this thread. So stop hiding behind a computer screen dissing Public Servants and go to your local Garda Station, Hospital or Government Department and let them know how you feel. And my guess is that you won't do it. Because you're another one of these annonymous posters who show real bravery who let their fingers do the talking. Very brave of you.

largepants

murphaph wrote: »

Well done Soldier. What happens when the money from these green heads runs out? It's already falling short of your salary "entitlements" to the tune of 20bn a year!

I couldn't give a rats @rse. From now on I'm looking after No 1 which is me and my family.

That might sound selfish and greedy but no more so than you private sector workers who work for private sector employers who continue to screw us over.

Ayankabroad

largepants wrote: »

Seriously galway2007 don't waste your breath. These people have their mind made up regarding the public sector worker. They are just going around with a huge chip on their soldier because they wanted a part of the Celtic Tiger and refusing to take a low paid job like that of a Public Servant.

Personally I just laugh at them. I'm happy out in my 'job for life' with a wonderful pension to look forward to in years to come. Amazing how this job for life and wonderful pension wasn't even considered in the good times. Now all these posters come out of the woodwork with their big green heads on them spouting absolute bunkem.

My advice galway2007 - keep your energys for the strikes ahead. Its better served there than answering the green eyed monsters on these boards.

If you are so happy with your job for life get back to work. You chose a career that is based on public service in the employ of the government yet when your employer does something that you do not agree with it is the general public that is impacted.

dan_d

I took a pay cut. I pay for my own pension. If I don't, then I don't get one.

At this stage my attitude to them is wake up and get over yourselves. What makes PS workers think that everyone else except them should take paycuts?

cqd2

Iomega Man wrote: »

seems like the Fianna Fail plan to have us all at one anothers throats is definately working......

Why cant i thank this?...but you're dead right...FF have had a policy of divide & conquer for the last year or so...Did anyone mention the 80,000 extra public servants they've added in the last 12 years..

The_Honeybadger

largepants wrote: »

For a start I'm not brainwashed by any Union. I'm not even a member of a Union.

Sure you're fellow posters have suggested a demonstration as suggested by the title of this thread. So stop hiding behind a computer screen dissing Public Servants and go to your local Garda Station, Hospital or Government Department and let them know how you feel. And my guess is that you won't do it. Because you're another one of these annonymous posters who show real bravery who let their fingers do the talking. Very brave of you.

I think the idea by the OP is ridiculous and won't happen. I have nothing against public servants as such, but please don't post things here that simply are not true, like that you are poorly paid and that nobody wanted to work in the PS during the boom. These are union rhetoric which they use to brainwash their members into becoming militant for strikes and it looks like you fell for it

Did I say how I feel? All I said was stop posting lies, take a chill pill my friend

changes

murphaph wrote: »

Well done Soldier. What happens when the money from these green heads runs out? It's already falling short of your salary "entitlements" to the tune of 20bn a year!

What savings did the government achieve by the attack on the PS/CS in last years budget.... 1 billion or so, is that really going to fix our problem?

How much did they put into the banks?

That one billion could be made up if they were not hell bent on driving down wages by standing by and letting jobs go to the wall.

Have they put any real pressure on the banks to lend? have they said anything about big landlords not reducing their rent? have they offered the small businesses any real support in keeping staff on (even for half the time and social welfare the other half)? Have they put pressure on ESB, Board Gais etc to lower costs to business?

They could have made that one billion up if they really wanted to by the above measures.

Jobs (more tax revenue), Jobs (less social welfare costs) Jobs (is the answer)...... not 1 miserable billion from the PS/CS.

murphaph

largepants wrote: »

I couldn't give a rats @rse. From now on I'm looking after No 1 which is me and my family.

That might sound selfish and greedy but no more so than you private sector workers who work for private sector employers who continue to screw us over.

According to the CSO (public sector body ) the only things not to fall in price in 2009 were government controlled, namely:
Transport
Healthcare
Education

ALL other areas saw prices fall. Some by double digit percentages. You're delusional if you can't see the private sector reducing it's prices. If you have some massive mortgage, that you took out of your own free will, you've got nobody but yourself to blame for that one.

If you can hold onto your job and current pay, good for you, but bad for Ireland.

murphaph

changes wrote: »

What savings did the government achieve by the attack on the PS/CS in last years budget.... 1 billion or so, is that really going to fix our problem?

How much did they put into the banks?

That one billion could be made up if they were not hell bent on driving down wages by standing by and letting jobs go to the wall.

Have they put any real pressure on the banks to lend? have they said anything about big landlords not reducing their rent? have they offered the small businesses any real support in keeping staff on (even for half the time and social welfare the other half)? Have they put pressure on ESB, Board Gais etc to lower costs to business?

They could have made that one billion up if they really wanted to by the above measures.

Jobs (more tax revenue), Jobs (less social welfare costs) Jobs (is the answer)...... not 1 miserable billion from the PS/CS.

I entirely agree that an export led jobs initiative is the way out of recession, BUT Ireland is so totally uncompetitive in the jobs market that this won't happen unless wages ARE driven down to a level comparable with at least the Eurozone average, if not lower (where we were when we started on the road to boom at the end of the 80's).

ixoy

changes wrote: »

What savings did the government achieve by the attack on the PS/CS in last years budget.... 1 billion or so, is that really going to fix our problem?

No which is why we need more cuts - not reverse the ones that are there and save even less!

That one billion could be made up if they were not hell bent on driving down wages by standing by and letting jobs go to the wall.

Many wages need to be cut though - we're uncompetitive in many sectors which is why companies are leaving!

Have they put any real pressure on the banks to lend?

Not enough - another fail for the government. They should have had far more strings attached to loans to the banks.

have they said anything about big landlords not reducing their rent?

Nope - another area they've failed in. Only now is more focus finally being shed on this.

have they offered the small businesses any real support in keeping staff on (even for half the time and social welfare the other half)?

Not sure how this would work from a finance perspective but good in theory. Maybe there's no long term point to propping up failing businesses though? Would it not just end up being a bailout for everyone?

Have they put pressure on ESB, Board Gais etc to lower costs to business?

Haven't those rate reductions occurred though?

They could have made that one billion up if they really wanted to by the above measures.

But as you rightly point out we need more than one billion! They need to do measures like these and make further PS/CS cuts.

Any support I did have is now gone in the light of them targetting vulnerable people (such as FAS graduate programs and the potential for social welfare). The cuts aren't really that bad.

Why don't the CPSU focus on a campaign to balance out the cuts with higher civil sector ranks rather than remove them entirely? It'd get far more support.

largepants

mickeyk wrote: »

I think the idea by the OP is ridiculous and won't happen. I have nothing against public servants as such, but please don't post things here that simply are not true, like that you are poorly paid and that nobody wanted to work in the PS during the boom. These are union rhetoric which they use to brainwash their members into becoming militant for strikes and it looks like you fell for it

Did I say how I feel? All I said was stop posting lies, take a chill pill my friend

As I stated previously I am not a member of a Union for do I conform to any Union ideals. Therefore I've not been brainwashed. Nor am I poorly paid but there are people in the Public Service who are poorly paid and I for one will be supporting them in their cause.

The_Honeybadger

largepants wrote: »

As I stated previously I am not a member of a Union for do I conform to any Union ideals. Therefore I've not been brainwashed. Nor am I poorly paid but there are people in the Public Service who are poorly paid and I for one will be supporting them in their cause.

Great for you. Have no issue with Public Servants, only ones who lie to get their point across. Good luck with your strikes

ixoy

largepants wrote: »

Nor am I poorly paid but there are people in the Public Service who are poorly paid and I for one will be supporting them in their cause.

Who actually is poorly paid? I seem to recall some studies which showed, for example, that clerical officers in the civil service are actually quite well paid relative to similar positions in the private sector (especially for those in the position for a number of years).

gandalf

deise blue wrote: »

The most coherent reason for Labour's surge in the polls is that Public Servants are considering deserting FF and FG in droves come the next election given both parties stated stance on pay cuts , traditionally as we all know Labour have strong ties with the Trade Unions which to my mind is why they are showing so strongly in the polls as PS workers are gravitating towards them.

Surge, what surge. They are static at 17% last time I checked which is not good considering how badly the government parties are doing.

They may be picking up PS worker support but it appears the gains they are making that way are being lost with a lot of supporters like me walking away as we are fed up of their pandering to unions and with them allowing union activists occupy influential positions within the party hierarchy.

The_Honeybadger

ixoy wrote: »

Who actually is poorly paid? I seem to recall some studies which showed, for example, that clerical officers in the civil service are actually quite well paid relative to similar positions in the private sector (especially for those in the position for a number of years).

The ESRI showed that the biggest gap in pay between the two sectors existed at the lower grades. Of course that does not make cuts any easier if you have a mortgage and kids and you earn below 30k. I reckon I could live quite well on 30k if I was single but throw a few kids into the mix and it doesn't go far. This of course should have no bearing on what people are paid, having kids and a mortgage should not entitle people to earn more.

Stark

mickeyk wrote: »

The ESRI showed that the biggest gap in pay between the two sectors existed at the lower grades. Of course that does not make cuts any easier if you have a mortgage and kids and you earn below 30k. I reckon I could live quite well on 30k if I was single but throw a few kids into the mix and it doesn't go far. This of course should have no bearing on what people are paid, having kids and a mortgage should not entitle people to earn more.

The big problem there of course is our social welfare system. If you're earning 30k and your spouse is unemployed, your spouse should be eligible for the dole imo. Of course, with our financial situation at the moment, you'd have to reduce some other social welfare benefits in order to make money to cover low-middle income working families and we can't be touching "The Vulnerable" now, can we.

deise blue

deadtiger wrote: »

Surge, what surge. They are static at 17% last time I checked which is not good considering how badly the government parties are doing.

They may be picking up PS worker support but it appears the gains they are making that way are being lost with a lot of supporters like me walking away as we are fed up of their pandering to unions and with them allowing union activists occupy influential positions within the party hierarchy.

The most recent Indo poll last month shows Labour at 19% whereas the Irish Times of the 22 Jan last shows Labour at 24% with both polls showing Eamon Gilmore as the most popular Party Leader by a country mile.
Have'nt seen a 17% rating on any recent poll , where did you get that figure ?
Every long time Labour voter has always been aware of the strong ties with the Trade Unions and as such it seems disingenuous for Labour voters to walk away from the party for remaining true to their ideals.
Although it is dangerous to predict what will happen in politics it appears likely that Labour will form a substantial rump of the next Government and will be in a hugely advantageous position to influence policy particularly if the charisma free Enda Kenny continues to lead FG.

gandalf

deise blue basing my figures on this 27/02/2010 - 17% Red C Poll for the Sunday Business Post http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0227/poll.html

Which is the level they were on in January's poll. No real surge there now is there.

deise blue

deadtiger wrote: »

deise blue basing my figures on this 27/02/2010 - 17% Red C Poll for the Sunday Business Post http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0227/poll.html

Which is the level they were on in January's poll. No real surge there now is there.

Missed that one !
As an optimist however I'll stick with the Irish Times poll .

gandalf

Actually there was a surge to 19% in Feb 2009 but that has trailed off to 17% and I reckon it will drop more.

Here is the actual report http://www.redcresearch.ie/documents/SBPElectionPollReport28thFeb2010.pdf

deise blue

Thanks , but I'll stick with the TNS/MRBI poll:)

alejandro1977

murphaph wrote: »

Well done Soldier. What happens when the money from these green heads runs out? It's already falling short of your salary "entitlements" to the tune of 20bn a year!

exactly!

Irish January-February Budget Deficit Widened to EU2.41 Billion

By Fergal O’Brien
March 2 (Bloomberg) -- Ireland’s budget deficit widened to
2.41 billion euros in the two months through February compared
with 2.1 billion euros a year earlier.
Tax revenue fell to 4.74 billion euros from 5.76 billion
euros, the finance ministry in Dublin said on its Web site
today.


Tax revenue falling; your "job for life" isn't as secure as you think! Move to Greece if you feel like it

dromdrom

alejandro1977 wrote: »

exactly!

Tax revenue falling; your "job for life" isn't as secure as you think! Move to Greece if you feel like it

Anyone remember the start of the bust, David Begg came on the RTE news and tried to sell his idea for recovery , which surprise surprise enatiled ramping up borrowing to increase public expenditure (the exact phrase was ' our debt levels are quite low by European standard so we have quite a bit of room there' ). One of the biggest disgrace's of the celtic tiger years was that we allowed the public sector unions have an input into goverment policy under the kleptocratic benchmarking and social partnership processs.

The_Thing

Is all of this whining here on Boards.ie not public enough for ye?

dromdrom

The_Thing wrote: »

Is all of this whining here on Boards.ie not public enough for ye?

Its a discussion forum, hence the discussion, you are a troll hence the comment.

Spanish Eyes

murphaph wrote: »

BUT Ireland is so totally uncompetitive in the jobs market that this won't happen unless wages ARE driven down to a level comparable with at least the Eurozone average, if not lower (where we were when we started on the road to boom at the end of the 80's).

Could I ask if you are earning the current minimum wage murphaph? And if you are, would you be ecstatic to have it reduced?

Competiteveness is not just about a low minimum wage. Take the exorbitant rents charged to businesses for example. If they were reduced, maybe that would help our competitiveness.

Re the Public Sector debacle - when the pension levy was introduced, it was tacitly accepted. Then came the recent cuts. The big problem in the PS is the Government's threat to reduce pay even further if the unions/staff do not play ball with modernisation. There is no sunset clause on all of this for the PS staff.

If you are a Private Sector worker now, earning a decent salary, not cut, no short time (and there are many many sectors doing really well now), do you put your head down, and say thank god I am OK, or do you continually fall for the propoganda of the coalition who have succeeded mightily in pitting us all against each other.

We should be fighting together to highlight the mismanagement of this government. But no, all this PS bashing is taking the focus off what is REALLY happening with Anglo, NAMA etc. and it is working a treat for BIFFO.