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N/M18 (for discussing COMPLETED sections)

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,638 Zoney


    Chris - from what I hear, the southern bypass is pretty rubbish quality too - the roundabouts for example having the wrong camber (the old truck-tipper-up trick like some of the new roundabouts that were put in at Limerick in conjunction with the new N20).


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭ Sponge Bob


    From Clare FM

    http://www.clarefm.ie/news.php?section=news
    Traffic delays on Ennis By pass expected with four month long relief works


    Clare County Council denies a section of the Ennis Western Relief Road is unstable or that there's a danger to motorists.

    Remedial works are due to be carried out on a masonry support at the base of one of the bridges which spans the River Fergus because of greater than expected movement of the abutment.

    The work will affect a section of the bypass from The Clareabby to Skehanagh Roundabouts from the end of this month until March.


    Project Resident Engineer Paul Moroney says the timeframe outlined is needed for the repairs.


    The affected roadway will be reduced to one lane and the speed limit will also be reduced for the duration.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,082 Chris_533976


    While they're at it they can paint all the road markings on the N18 section. They've all worn away. Also they can put crash barriers up so people crashing wont hit exposed lighting columns.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,110 KevR


    The N18 between Crusheen and Shannon was a stunning drive today. I never noticed before how scenic it is. The landscaping is really well done also. It's especially nice close to Shannon where there's no concrete median; instead it's a steel barrier with grass and hedging in the median.

    I know the concrete barrier is safer and easier to maintain but, unfortunately, it's not as nice to look at.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,304 ✭✭✭ serfboard


    KevR wrote: »
    I wonder if the Saw Doctors will release a remake of their N17 song called M17 or R649? :D

    Got in before me ;)

    "I wish I was on the R649,
    Sunshine and I'm feeling fine"


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,095 ✭✭✭ nordydan


    These are good photos, I was in Ennis at the weekend and the road to Shannon should have no problems being recalssified.

    I know this is slightly off topic, but does anyone alse find the part of the road heading east from Ennis to Limerick a bit bumpy around the turn-off for Bunratty? I was surprsied at this when coming home yesterday!


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,110 KevR


    Stuck a couple of photos on the N19 wikipedia page. Tried putting up a 3rd one but it's impossible to get a decent looking layout because the article is so short.

    Put 2 pictures on the N18 page also.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,638 Zoney


    nordydan wrote: »
    These are good photos, I was in Ennis at the weekend and the road to Shannon should have no problems being recalssified.

    I know this is slightly off topic, but does anyone alse find the part of the road heading east from Ennis to Limerick a bit bumpy around the turn-off for Bunratty? I was surprsied at this when coming home yesterday!

    Noticed it recently. I think that section (Bunratty bypass - built ~1990) has degraded a fair bit recently - it's like a rollercoaster (it was merely a bit uneven a year or two ago). They already had to rebuild the section just south/east of the bypass a couple of years back - remedial work to stop it completely sinking into the boggy land there. Looks like such work will have to be done on the bypass soon too.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,010 Tech3


    When I was driving on the route a few days ago I found a garda only sign in blue. I thought these should be in green if not on a motorway?


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,781 ✭✭✭ Carawaystick


    tech2 wrote: »
    When I was driving on the route a few days ago I found a garda only sign in blue. I thought these should be in green if not on a motorway?

    They've always been blue as far as I can remember, they are on the N11 Single and Dual Carriageway. Blue is the colour for parking signs???


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,010 Tech3




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,638 Zoney


    Not sure why that distance sign doesn't have an M18 plate above it, nor why the old sign doesn't have an N18 sign. Is it possible the omission on the new one is due to just duplicating the existing sign (extra destination Newmarket-on-Fergus notwithstanding).

    EDIT: ah - you removed the link to the blurry photo I was referring to!


  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 10,521 Mod ✭✭✭✭ icdg


    Unfortunately that junction just illustrates why this road is not really full motorway spec - its a LILO, which really does not belong on a motorway. Although its not completely unheard of the UK, its extremely rare....

    http://pathetic.org.uk/current/m50/photos/pages/M50_07_jpg.shtml


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,010 Tech3


    Zoney wrote: »
    Not sure why that distance sign doesn't have an M18 plate above it, nor why the old sign doesn't have an N18 sign. Is it possible the omission on the new one is due to just duplicating the existing sign (extra destination Newmarket-on-Fergus notwithstanding).

    EDIT: ah - you removed the link to the blurry photo I was referring to!

    I hope so but there is a few signs along the route that dont have the N18 on them. I probably would have went to get a better shot if the M18 sign was on it as well. I wonder is this the case on other motorways with no M on the some signs?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,638 Zoney


    Well, do we in fact have a motorway specification that the junction doesn't adhere to? Or are the rules for motorways here solely concerned with the classification, restrictions, etc?

    Having been on German Autobahns where one was decelerating from a bit more than 120 km/h to leave at one of these junctions, I don't see that it is a problem especially with so many signs now on the approaches to motorway junctions (four isn't it?)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,010 Tech3


    icdg wrote: »
    Unfortunately that junction just illustrates why this road is not really full motorway spec - its a LILO, which really does not belong on a motorway. Although its not completely unheard of the UK, its extremely rare....

    http://pathetic.org.uk/current/m50/photos/pages/M50_07_jpg.shtml

    Yes we have mentioned that junction before and there is also another LILO. It wasnt designed to motorway spec as the Ennis bypass was built standard dual carriageway but as other posters have said not a lot of traffic uses that junction and also those are commonly seen on German Autobahns. The Ennis junction is fine and also others along the M18.


  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 10,521 Mod ✭✭✭✭ icdg


    Zoney wrote: »
    Well, do we in fact have a motorway specification that the junction doesn't adhere to? Or are the rules for motorways here solely concerned with the classification, restrictions, etc?

    The regulations regarding motorways are to do solely with restrictions yes. There is however a design spec for motorways in the DRMB, and I'm pretty sure LILOs aren't part of it.

    Having said that, I think the **odd** one such as this one on the M18, another I know of on the M11 Arklow Bypass, are acceptable as long as they remain the exception and not the rule, and as long as they are well signed as such - an idea might be to include a warning sign warning exiting drivers that they will need to slow down quickly and prepare to stop (they might have to go from 120 km/h -> 0 km/h in about half the time Irish motorway drivers are used to - and thats if they're keeping to the speed limit). Either that, or impose a 100 km/h special speed limit for 1km prior to this type of junction. That sign on the UK M50 clearly signs the LILO as a right hand turn and not a fork - and it might have been an idea for us to do that instead of pretending it is a proper GSJ.


  • Registered Users Posts: 397 ✭✭ Geogregor


    Are they going to repaint yellow line as a solid one?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,091 ✭✭✭ marmurr1916


    icdg wrote: »
    Unfortunately that junction just illustrates why this road is not really full motorway spec - its a LILO, which really does not belong on a motorway. Although its not completely unheard of the UK, its extremely rare....

    http://pathetic.org.uk/current/m50/photos/pages/M50_07_jpg.shtml


    Irish people should really get over this obsession with using the UK as a point of comparison all the time.

    I say that as someone who's as guilty of doing it as the next person.

    There are slip road junctions like the one pictured on autobahns in Germany, on motorways in Poland, in France...

    That section of the road is built to normal EU motorway standards.

    If the Brits want to be over fussy, then let them off.

    We don't have to slavishly follow them.

    In any case, LILOs like that one are, and will be, extremely rare on the Irish motorway network.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,082 Chris_533976


    Most of the M18 junctions (eg: Barefield) are to little annexes of civilisation that really shouldnt exist anyway, let alone have a junction, so only a handful of cars would be using these daily.

    "Lads whats the AADT for the Barefield junction??

    4"


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,095 ✭✭✭ nordydan


    Irish people should really get over this obsession with using the UK as a point of comparison all the time.

    I say that as someone who's as guilty of doing it as the next person.

    There are slip road junctions like the one pictured on autobahns in Germany, on motorways in Poland, in France...

    That section of the road is built to normal EU motorway standards.

    If the Brits want to be over fussy, then let them off.

    We don't have to slavishly follow them.

    In any case, LILOs like that one are, and will be, extremely rare on the Irish motorway network.

    All too true. Sadly its a crime with some to even suggest this, just like its a crime to suggest there WAS a sectarian undercurrent to the planing of the NI motorway system (by the way WAS = PAST = NOT NOW = things are being redressed = we need to acknowledge mistakes in the past in order to more balanced future planning :cool:). The UK's motorway system has a lot of good points, but also some bad ones - this being one of them.

    If you read the comments on SAIBRE, most of the well informed road buffs would follow your/the continental approach to the relaxation of the over stringent regulations over there. The UK M50 highlights a few hypocrisies in the system mind you, M12 in Armagh the same (while very high spec GSJ DC remains AP e.g Newry bypass, A55 sections in Wales). We are 100% correct to provide M regulations wherever possible


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭ Amtmann


    Zoney wrote: »
    Not sure why that distance sign doesn't have an M18 plate above it, nor why the old sign doesn't have an N18 sign. Is it possible the omission on the new one is due to just duplicating the existing sign (extra destination Newmarket-on-Fergus notwithstanding).

    EDIT: ah - you removed the link to the blurry photo I was referring to!

    The plates are often attached later; they're actually a separate sign.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,091 ✭✭✭ marmurr1916


    nordydan wrote: »
    All too true. Sadly its a crime with some to even suggest this, just like its a crime to suggest there WAS a sectarian undercurrent to the planing of the NI motorway system (by the way WAS = PAST = NOT NOW = things are being redressed = we need to acknowledge mistakes in the past in order to more balanced future planning :cool:).

    Clearly Coleraine was meant to overtake Derry as a city, with better road and rail links (planned at least) and a university.
    nordydan wrote: »
    The UK's motorway system has a lot of good points, but also some bad ones - this being one of them.

    If you read the comments on SAIBRE, most of the well informed road buffs would follow your/the continental approach to the relaxation of the over stringent regulations over there. The UK M50 highlights a few hypocrisies in the system mind you, M12 in Armagh the same (while very high spec GSJ DC remains AP e.g Newry bypass, A55 sections in Wales). We are 100% correct to provide M regulations wherever possible

    Not only that, but we're lucky that most of our dual-carriageways were built as HQDC with grade-separated junctions, rather than the more old-fashioned type of dual-carriageways which are more usual in the UK.

    Large sections of these dual-carriageways have got LILOs, at grade roundabouts, lay-bys, no hard shoulder (or a very narrow hard strip), private accesses, right-turns, gaps in the median for crossing traffic, country lanes intersecting with the dual-carriageway etc etc.

    Despite this, they usually have 70 mph speed limits, compared to the normal 100 km/h speed limits on similar sections of this type of dual-carriageway in Ireland.

    The A90 dual-carriageway between Aberdeen and Dundee is a classic example of an older dual-carriageway.

    The route between Edinburgh and Aberdeen via Perth and Dundee was upgraded gradually to dual-carriageway standard between the 1960s and the 1980s.

    Apart from one junction (basically a staggered cross-roads) at Laurencekirk which has a 50 mph restriction, it's 70 mph all the way from the outskirts of Aberdeen to the outskirts of Dundee for over 50 miles.

    En route you'll encouter all of the features listed above, with an at-grade roundabout coming at the end of this section of the A90 as you enter Dundee's suburbs.

    The dual-carriageway bypass of Dundee has mostly at-grade roundabouts and is mostly limited to 50mph.

    However, once past Dundee, it's 70mph along the dual-carriagway to Perth where the route becomes the M90 (as far as the Forth Road Bridge).

    The M90 itself has some short sections with very steep hills and sharpish bends, steeper and sharper than the Glanmire bypass section of the M8.

    Parts of the dual-carriageway section of the A90 from Perth to Aberdeen have been improved in recent years: median gaps have been closed, some junctions have been grade-separated and there are plans for more improvements.

    However, it would take tens of millions to upgrade this road to HQDC standard, similar to the standard of most of the A55 North Wales Expressway.

    Unlike the UK, Ireland doesn't have long stretches of old-fashioned dual-carriageway, mainly because very few sections of dual-carriageway were built before HQDC became the norm in Ireland.

    Redesignating most of these HQDCs as motorways makes sense and the speed limit of 120 km/h on them is not excessive by international standards.

    The UK may have higher standards generally for motorway design, but its standards for 70 mph dual-carriageways are much lower than would be acceptable in Ireland.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,010 Tech3


    Nope. If anything the Ennis bypass is of slightly lower quality. It was built in the old style of "Standard Dual Carriageway" rather than "HQDC" and uses mostly compact GSJs. Still perfectly reasonable for a motorway though.

    Barefield is a typical Irish village, Pub, House + petrol station I think, with maybe an estate tacked on the side owned by a now-rich farmer. Shouldnt be too bad for jamming up, it was never a problem in the pre-Ennis bypass days. Might be a slight hold up coming from the south but coming from the north it'll be fine. Still wont be as bad as Gort can get!

    Thats interesting as I actually find the Ennis bypass alot more comfortable and easier to drive on than the time I drove on the M8. There is some fantastic scenery on that route but it still wouldnt top the N18/M18 for me.

    Yeah I dont like Gort very much, usually do a few little backroad turns to avoid the town. It will be the worst bit taken out no doubt as there is actually some overtaking straights on the rest of the road to Galway.

    I really hope Gort-Tuam goes ahead next year though as it will cut a massive time off a journey from Limerick => Sligo/Donegal. With the improvements of Limerick tunnel, G-C, maybe G-T, it cut about 45-50 min off! At the moment it takes 3 hours to Sligo dreadful :mad: Its only 236km ffs.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,110 KevR


    Re: the N18 having LILOs and therefore should not be a motorway. As stated by someone else, very few people actually use these junctions. They're not actually that bad and once there's a sign warning of the LILO there's no problem with the road being 120kmh. We wouldn't downgrade an entire N road to an R road just because of one or two bad bends - we put up a sign which warns of the bend and people can adjust their speed accordingly. Same goes for people on the M18 using the LILO - they can reduce their speed slightly on the main carriageway, be ready to slow down a lot in the slip and be ready for the tight-ish bend through the junction.

    tech2 wrote: »
    Thats interesting as I actually find the Ennis bypass alot more comfortable and easier to drive on than the time I drove on the M8. There is some fantastic scenery on that route but it still wouldnt top the N18/M18 for me.

    I actually find the same with the N/M18 compared to the M6 and M4 - the N/M18 is an easier and more comfortable drive for some reason. Really good scenery also. (Not that the M6 & 4 are uncomfortable or difficult to drive on or anything, it's just I do notice a slight difference).


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭ Amtmann




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,110 KevR


    Furet wrote: »

    I love how the N/M18 is deemed dangerous and that a 120kmh speed limit would be too high but there will never be a word said about any 100kmh single carriageway national primary route in County Clare which is infinitely more dangerous. I think this is just a bad attempt at political points scoring and they don't really have genuine concerns about road safety (if they did they would be focusing on other roads for sure).


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,010 Tech3


    Furet wrote: »

    I'm sure they are referring to those LILO's. I found the merging lenth quite short when I tested the junction for scariff a few months ago and also the deceleration lane is very short. I would be in favour of closing these off if needs be as there is alternative access from the Ennis junction and also from next year the Crusheen GSJ.

    The NRA have taken on board the complaints so I dont know why the extra fuss, its going to be redesignated whether people like it or not.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,278 ✭✭✭ dubhthach


    You have to remember these are the same councillors who wanted to zone enough land around Ennis to double the population. One could argue that like the whoo-hah over Athlone bypass that it's in their interest if motorway restrictions weren't put on the bypass regarding access to development land etc.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭ Sponge Bob


    The NRA really should borrow this particular Swedish road sign and use it to warn of thick councillors in the area .

    180px-Moose-warning.svg.png


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