Old fashioned Girl Vs Career-Minded.

ronaldoshaky

Is it chauvinistic to want a woman to stay at home and raise the children? I had an argument with my friend the other day, when I said to her that I would prefer to go out with a girl who wanted to be a home maker, as opposed to a girl who was a higher professional.

Would you prefer a woman to stay at home or not? Do you think its good/bad if a woman works instead of raising the children? And would you prefer to go out with a girl who doesnt have a degree, or does have a degree?

(Post script: I know the questions sound a bit simplistic)

krudler

I dont think its overly chauvinistic,a lot of women would probably tell you they have an idea of what they want from their future husband, dont see why men cant have the same. I dont think its purely a womans job to raise kids and look after a household but everyone sees what a marriage entails differntly, some women would have no issue being a housewife, others would rather be a career girl and mother at the same time, perfectly doable.

Herbal Deity

I don't think I could be with a girl who didn't have a degree or who didn't have high ambition towards something other than simply settling down, starting a family and being a housewife.

But that's just me, nothing wrong or chauvanistic with wanting something different.

Expecting all women to wish to be housewives would be chauvanistic.

amacachi

I'd like to homeschool my kids if I ever had some, so I'd hope the mother of them would be willing to earn some money. :pac:

Emme

Most couples nowadays need two incomes to survive. Even if they don't if one loses his or her job then it's good if the other has some qualification which will ensure that some money is still coming in.

I think that many women would choose to work part time or look after their children full time when they're babies up to primary school age, but they can't afford it.

I think that every woman should have the ability to earn a living, whether that involves getting a degree or not. If she does choose to work in the home and her partner can afford it, what happens if her partner dies suddenly or the relationship breaks up? It is better that she is able to earn her own living.

L31mr0d

Personally, when I do have kids, it will be whatever my OH wants. If she wants to continue working I'll stay at home with the kids, or vice versa. In fact, I'm not really career driven and prefer to alternate between jobs every few years to try something different. If I had a kid I'd probably alternate every year or two with my wife regarding work. Where she could look after the child for a few years, then I'd go on hiatus and she would work.

You never know though, these sort of things will get worked out when a child is on the horizon. I know a couple of friends that fully expected the woman would stay at home, and the man would continue working, but then she got pregnant while she was in her dream job, so her husband quit his job and is now looking after their child full time.

Do I want to know what a gorgon is?

OP what is the reasoning behind your preferance?

Nevyn

Gorgon in Greek mythology, the Gorgon (plural: Gorgons) (Greek: Γοργών or Γοργώ Gorgon/Gorgo) was a terrifying female creature. It derives from the Greek word gorgós, which means "dreadful."

Which really sets the tone and announces the bias of the thread right from the start.

Bottle_of_Smoke

Don't really know why but I think I'd prefer a girl who was a career gorgon. When I have kids I'd like to at least consider being the house husband, certainly wouldn't want to be ruled out of that role anyhow.

Which really sets the tone and announces the bias of the thread right from the start.

Should have kept quiet, I didn't know the roots of the word and I'd best most other readers didn't either.

Nevyn

Most people would know of Medusa who was a gorgon, well was turned into a gorgon by the godess Athena to revenge herself on her rapist. The OP knows what a gorgon is and choose to use the term deliberately.

ronaldoshaky if you wish for your wife to be a stay at home parent what to you see as your role as the husband and father?

Zulu

I'd imagine it's only chauvinistic if you either want her to stay at home, because:

a) you feel it's beneth you, but suitable for her (&/or)
b) you feel all women should do the same.

Other than that the potential exists that it could just be a personal preference, which you're fully entitled to!

Emme

Thaedydal wrote: »

Most people would know of Medusa who was a gorgon, well was turned into a gorgon by the godess Athena to revenge herself on her rapist. The OP knows what a gorgon is and choose to use the term deliberately.

ronaldoshaky if you wish for your wife to be a stay at home parent what to you see as your role as the husband and father?

Here's a Wikipedia link to Medusa:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medusa

There's some interesting views on Medusa and feminism there:

In the 20th century, feminists reassessed Medusa's appearances in literature and in modern culture, including the use of Medusa as a logo by fashion company Versace.[10][11][12] The name "Medusa" itself is often used in ways not directly connected to the mythological figure but to suggest the gorgon's abilities or to connote malevolence; despite her origins as a beauty, the name in common usage "came to mean monster."[13] The book Female Rage: Unlocking Its Secrets, Claiming Its Power by Mary Valentis and Anne Devane notes that "When we asked women what female rage looks like to them, it was always Medusa, the snaky-haired monster of myth, who came to mind ... In one interview after another we were told that Medusa is 'the most horrific woman in the world' ... [though] none of the women we interviewed could remember the details of the myth."[14]
Medusa's visage has since been adopted by many women as a symbol of female rage; one of the first publications to express this idea was a 1978 issue of Women: A Journal of Liberation. The cover featured the image of a gorgon, which the editors explained "can be a map to guide us through our terrors, through the depths of our anger into the sources of our power as women."[14] In a 1986 article for Women of Power magazine called "Ancient Gorgons: A Face for Contemporary Women's Rage," Emily Erwin Culpepper wrote that "The Amazon Gorgon face is female fury personified. The Gorgon/Medusa image has been rapidly adopted by large numbers of feminists who recognize her as one face of our own rage."[14]

Zulu

Interesting stuff...

WindSock

Zulu wrote: »

a) you feel it's beneth you, but suitable for her (&/or)

Absolutely. I have no problem with the idea of having a stay at home parent at all, but it should be a mutual decision and not just a general attitude that 'It's the womans job, as there is no way I would ever do it'

It's attitudes like that that discourage men from taking those roles and women from trying to advance in their careers as Gorgons.

Nevyn

Emme wrote: »

Here's a Wikipedia link to Medusa:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medusa

There's some interesting views on Medusa and feminism there:

But yet in the region Medusa was said to be from the gorgon's head is a symbol of protection, esp of home and of women, as Medusa killed those who raided the village and appears on coins and buildings.

krudler

Thaedydal wrote: »

But yet in the region Medusa was said to be from the gorgon's head is a symbol of protection, esp of home and of women, as Medusa killed those who raided the village and appears on coins and buildings.

you learn something new every time you visit boards

astarte

I think it is wonderful for kids if they have a stay at home parent, that doesn't necessarily need to be the mother. I also know that while it sounds wonderful, some men have real issues in being the staying at home parent, in terms of feeling emasculated and having their traditional role of protector/provider taken away (however voluntarily)

The big issue for the stay at home parent is as Emme said above, what if the relationship breaks down, how does s/he provide for herself, should s/he expect her ex to support her as well as the kids? If s/he needs to return to the workforce, that will be nigh on impossible to return to any decent level after a hiatus of 10 years or more.

the other question of the woman having a degree, etc..that is intriguing. I am curious to know if men do feel threatened if their partner has a higher educational level and or intelligence..

I read some research some time ago to indicate that women who marry men who are more intelligent, increase their IQ and women who marry less intelligent men, loose IQ points...odd but apparently true.

Stheno

astarte wrote: »

the other question of the woman having a degree, etc..that is intriguing. I am curious to know if men do feel threatened if their partner has a higher educational level and or intelligence..

.

A Swedish study last year found that men who married intelligent women, lived longer than men who married less intelligent women.

http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/lifestyle/10/08/09/want-live-longer-marry-smart-woman

Otis Driftwood

*But there are no unattractive women in Sweden so of course you want to live longer.

On the whole stay at home parent thing and the OPs unfortunate description neither bothers me either way.Ive dated very successful career women and Ive dated women that would be more than happy to stay at home with a couple of nippers.I would have no problem whatsoever staying at home and bringing up the kids if it were economically viable.Seriously like,it would be foolish to think other wise.

I can sort of see where some blokes may feel immasulated if they did this but Id like to think they are in the minority.

I come from a family very much of the old fashioned notion that the womans place is in the home and as a result Ive pulled away from this ideal as much as I can because its frankly a load of bollocks.

Im starting to ramble now so will stop but just to answer the OPs question of old fashioned girl VS career woman,it doesnt matter,if I love her and she loves me,what possible difference could it make?

*May be not scientifically accurate

donfers

I'm confused...

Is this a thread about Greek mythology or about how the word gorgon has "set the tone" (I didn't even know what it meant until someone provided a definition so the only tone it was setting for me was "How dumb are you?")

OR

Is this a thread about if a man would prefer a stay-at-home partner or careerist?

I think there are advantages to both really and as long as it's a kind-hearted lass who's not bad to look at I'm not too bothered.

What interests me is how this thread gets hijacked by certain elements to promote their own agenda

I know that on other forums the stock response when this happens is

"well...this is a xxxxx forum and we want to discuss things from an xxxxxx perspective"

Again I don't mind the hijacking here but if we are going to debate how certain words can linguistically oppress genders or "set a tone" then are we allowed to do that here? or is this a thread for men about if men prefer a stay-at-home partner or a careerist? I'm a bit confused

Stheno

donfers wrote: »

or is this a thread for men about if men prefer a stay-at-home partner or a careerist? I'm a bit confused

there's a big difference between referring to someone as a "careerist" and a career-gorgon in all fairness.

I suspect if the title of the thread, said "old fashioned girl vs careerist" the reaction would not have been as it was.

Personally I find the term career gorgon offensive, but have no problem with careerist/woman focussed on her career etc.

Zulu

donfers wrote: »

What interests me is how this thread gets hijacked by certain elements to promote their own agenda

I know that on other forums the stock response when this happens is

"well...this is a xxxxx forum and we want to discuss things from an xxxxxx perspective"
...

I thought the same thing, but, frankly, was afraid to mention it figuring it would only make things worse.

Otis Driftwood

The term referring to a female as a gorgon just because she wants to go out and have a decent career is derogatory.

You obviously have an issue with the moderation of tLL but this isnt tLL.

WindSock

donfers wrote: »

I'm confused...

Is this a thread about Greek mythology or about how the word gorgon has "set the tone" (I didn't even know what it meant until someone provided a definition so the only tone it was setting for me was "How dumb are you?")

OR

Is this a thread about if a man would prefer a stay-at-home partner or careerist?

I think there are advantages to both really and as long as it's a kind-hearted lass who's not bad to look at I'm not too bothered.

What interests me is how this thread gets hijacked by certain elements to promote their own agenda

I know that on other forums the stock response when this happens is

"well...this is a xxxxx forum and we want to discuss things from an xxxxxx perspective"

Again I don't mind the hijacking here but if we are going to debate how certain words can linguistically oppress genders or "set a tone" then are we allowed to do that here? or is this a thread for men about if men prefer a stay-at-home partner or a careerist? I'm a bit confused

It's just the choice of wording in the title implies that a woman who doesn't wish to take on a traditional stay at home role when married with kids must mean she is a heartless monster gunning for a career.
If I were to start a similar thread regarding men in tLL I would word it like

'Career Driven Man Vs Namby Pamby Househusband'

What I would be implying is that it is somehow wrong for a man to stay at home and vice versa.

Zulu

I know, "Women are Gorgons" shocker in the Gentlemans Club!

Whats the world coming to, it's fucking dispicable if you ask me. Quick! Ban the OP before anyone else gets offended.

donfers

nedtheshed wrote: »

The term referring to a female as a gorgon just because she wants to go out and have a decent career is derogatory.

You obviously have an issue with the moderation of tLL but this isnt tLL.

I have no issue with TLL, they can do as they wish, nothing to do with me.

I also understand how women could be offended by the implication of the word gorgon = career women are somehow more monstrous uncaring people.

It's a justified complaint.

So do we discuss the validity of the complaint or the topic the OP wishes to discuss which is stay at home v career women.

I also sympathise with Zulu's view that sometimes we are too easily offended when there was no malice of intent and get sidetracked due to our own sensitivities.

Basically I love everybody

Nevyn

I wasn't offended by it, most bemused and would like for the OP to come back and explain why they chose that word and answer the question which I put to him which was:
"ronaldoshaky if you wish for your wife to be a stay at home parent what to you see as your role as the husband and father? "

shellyboo

If and when I get married and have kids, I'd love to be lucky enough to be able to stay at home. Unfortunately, the reality these days is that not many families can afford to have only one parent working.

The OP is making out like it's a choice - that women go out to work instead of staying home with the kids because they just feel like it - when in reality, that's not always the case.

Will

Thread title amended to "Career-Minded". Hope this is ok.

If I ever get married and ever have kids ideally I'd like us to raise the kids ourselves. I see too many kids being reared by child minders and au pairs. Whether it is me or my imaginary wife doesn't matter, what might be ideal is the pair of us job share. However I'm not against my imaginary wife staying at home if she prefers, or if I stay at home.

Will worry about it if it ever occurs.

r3nu4l

Arguments aside, I do think that having at least one parent at home is a fantastic idea and I would very much love it if myself and mrs r3nu4l had the option of having one of us stay at home.

If we did have the option it would be a fight between us as to who would be the one to get to stay at home!!

As a scientist I don't lend much weight to many of the 'studies' that are conducted around this topic. Some studies say that when the woman stays at home the child fares better, others say that it just has to be either parent, male or female. Others say that it makes no difference. The key is to look at who commissioned the study. Then look at the questions asked and methods used to get the results.

Cicero

ronaldoshaky wrote: »

..... I would prefer to go out with a girl who wanted to be a home maker, as opposed to a girl who was a higher professional.

......just one question....what do you think this 'girl' is going to do in the meantime, before the time comes that she meets you?...sit at home and say, Mammy, I'm not going to do a degree or work or nuttin cause I'm gonna marry someone who wants me to stay at home all day....

OP...I just don't think life works the way you think it does...