Your thoughts on defection.

El_Duderino 09

Hey guys I’m new here and I’m curious to know how many atheists here have left their religion. I was raised catholic in a fairly secular family, and I have never really believed in the supernatural. Before Christmas I sent off my declaration of defection to bishop Freeman and he replied to ask me to speak to my parish priest. I went and spoke to him and told him I don’t believe in god or Catholicism. He’s a gentleman and we had a very respectful chat and he acknowledged that it is the choice of the individual.

Most of my friends are atheist in the broad sense, and support what I have done but none of them have actually done it themselves. I wonder why that is. I must say even though I have been atheist for a while now it was still difficult to actually send the letter and go talk to the PP.

So I’m asking for your thoughts on defection.

Thanks

Fad

I'll do it whenever I move out permanently, because frankly, it would just cause too much of an argument at the moment.

I dont think it'll be in anyway difficult to do, it'll just be a question of bothering my arse!

Tiddlers

I've done it. I sent off my letter to the bishop where I was baptised and got a similar "let's chat" letter back.I don't live in the area any more but I still declined as he wasn't going to say anything to change my mind.I've a couple of friends who have also become apostate to the Catholic Church.However, for the most part, people I know who claim to be agnostic or atheist haven't sent a letter of defection because 'they don't want to offend any family members'.I know it's a personal issue to everyone but if YOU feel strongly about defecting from the church it shouldn't matter what others think. Of course there are instances when it will upset people but remember you never had a say about whether you wanted to be baptised into the church and it's a chance to show your stance.There are many other cultural and societal affiliations people are much quicker and willing to disassociate themselves from.We live in a country where religion has been innoculated into our lives in such a way that we feel we can't reject.

pljudge321

Fad wrote: »

I'll do it whenever I move out permanently, because frankly, it would just cause too much of an argument at the moment.

I dont think it'll be in anyway difficult to do, it'll just be a question of bothering my arse!

I'm in the same boat as yourself.

Vomit

I do it usually once in the morning... maybe after lunch if I have beans.

Daftendirekt

Vomit wrote: »

I do it usually once in the morning... maybe after lunch if I have beans.

Defection. Not defecation.


I haven't done it simply because I don't acknowledge my former membership of the CC as being valid or meaningful, and so don't really see much point in defecting.

That said, I might do it some day. Just for shits and giggles.

The Mad Hatter

Like transferring files off my old PC, doing my taxes and exercising, it's constantly something I plan to do...later...

El_Duderino 09

Tiddlers wrote: »

I've done it. I sent off my letter to the bishop where I was baptised and got a similar "let's chat" letter back.I don't live in the area any more but I still declined as he wasn't going to say anything to change my mind.I've a couple of friends who have also become apostate to the Catholic Church.However, for the most part, people I know who claim to be agnostic or atheist haven't sent a letter of defection because 'they don't want to offend any family members'.I know it's a personal issue to everyone but if YOU feel strongly about defecting from the church it shouldn't matter what others think. Of course there are instances when it will upset people but remember you never had a say about whether you wanted to be baptised into the church and it's a chance to show your stance.There are many other cultural and societal affiliations people are much quicker and willing to disassociate themselves from.We live in a country where religion has been innoculated into our lives in such a way that we feel we can't reject.

Hey Tiddlers fair point about offending family members. I was lucky that it wasn’t an issue. My mother wasn’t thrilled but didn’t try to stop me really and ultimately she respected my decision. Also my uncle is a monsignor so she didn’t want it to affect his chances of promotion from the recent resignations among the bishops. Mostly she couldn’t articulate her reasons because, I suspect, they are not rational. Like you said, indoctrination. I agree you didn’t choose baptism when it happened but they do consider it valid and count you among their numbers. That’s why I acted. it’s a small gesture but its all I have.

Zillah

Couldn't be arsed. I'll get to it some day.

However, somehow I feel that there might be a way to take advantage of this membership later in life. Like if I'm running through the streets of some town in the Argentinian countryside with a violent gang behind me I could run towards the nearest church screaming "sanctuaaaaaaaaaryyyyyyyyy!" Then the old priest opens a slot and glares at me with sleepy eyes. "Are you Catholic?" he asks. Oh my God. "YES!"

robindch

Zillah wrote: »

I feel that there might be a way to take advantage of this membership later in life. Like if I'm running through the streets of some town in the Argentinian countryside with a violent gang behind me I could run towards the nearest church screaming "sanctuaaaaaaaaaryyyyyyyyy!" Then the old priest opens a slot and glares at me with sleepy eyes. "Are you Catholic?" he asks. Oh my God. "YES!"

Or if you need to travel to Saudi on business. I gather that atheists aren't permitted.

Kinky Slinky

I am an atheist but i doubt i would get in done in case my future partner wanted to get married in a church,it seems more trouble than its worth.

El_Duderino 09

Kinky Slinky wrote: »

I am an atheist but i doubt i would get in done in case my future partner wanted to get married in a church,it seems more trouble than its worth.

Fair enough. For what its worth so long as your partner is catholic you can still get married in a church. Its like when a catholic marries a protestant.
If it ever comes to looking for sanctuary, im prepared to lie to the padre.

fitz0

I plan on doing it soon as I'll be out of the country for the next census and I know the mammy will put me down as a Catherlic. So I'm going to pre-empt that.

Dades

Kinky Slinky wrote: »

I am an atheist but i doubt i would get in done in case my future partner wanted to get married in a church,it seems more trouble than its worth.

I think you can still do that if you're not catholic, btw. Just a little more paperwork/banter with the priest required.

fitz0 wrote: »

I plan on doing it soon as I'll be out of the country for the next census and I know the mammy will put me down as a Catherlic. So I'm going to pre-empt that.

If you ain't in the country you shouldn't be on the census - though I appreciate the sentiment!

Zillah

Dades wrote: »

If you ain't in the country you shouldn't be on the census - though I appreciate the sentiment!

I was going to post this, but then again what if he's just away for a week?

Gambler

Kinky Slinky wrote: »

I am an atheist but i doubt i would get in done in case my future partner wanted to get married in a church,it seems more trouble than its worth.

As some of the others mentioned it's very possible. I got married in a church ceremony with all the trimmings almost 2 years ago. Your partner does have to get permission from the bishop and there's a small bit of extra paperwork but it's no more hastle than anything else. In fact in the greater picture it's one of the easier things to get sorted before the big day

8kvscdpglqnyr4

Kinky Slinky wrote: »

I am an atheist but i doubt i would get in done in case my future partner wanted to get married in a church,it seems more trouble than its worth.

Just to repeat the same as other posters. I had defected a year before I got married in a Catholic church ... it was no problem. Came as a bit of a shock to the in-laws to find out I was not Catholic:eek:

eblistic

Zillah wrote: »

I was going to post this, but then again what if he's just away for a week?

From what I recall the census is a count of people in Ireland and in each home on census night. Mammys writing down the details of people not in the house that night may actually be against the law.

Mena

robindch wrote: »

Or if you need to travel to Saudi on business. I gather that atheists aren't permitted.

I've been to Saudi 5 or 6 times in the past four years and it's never been a problem.

So you can stop worrying about that one at least.

As for the OP, was never a part of any of it so never had to leave, seems I was lucky...

bnt

"Defection" is a weird word for this context, I think - it implies a betrayal of group loyalty e.g. when Cold War era Russian pilots flew their MiGs to US bases in Japan. What has this religion done to earn your loyalty? I know churches are involved in social work and founded hospitals etc., but could those things be done only by the religious?

The difficulty I have with this question is that while I was taken to a Catholic Church as a kid, by my mother, I don't remember regarding the Catholic Church as "my church" or "my religion". It was just one of those things you do as a kid, like believing in Santa Claus, and I grew out of it. My mother died just before I turned 13, and without her influence it was easy to just stop pretending - but I never got to have an argument with her about religion.

Xyo

Since I never had any choice in being made a catholic and decided from a young age that religion wasn't my thing I see no reason to send anyone a letter formally leaving something which in my mind I was never a part of.

Agricola

If i wanted to cancel my membership with Manchester United Id send a letter or make a phonecall, cause MU is a real organisation based on a true religion ie football! and it takes my money too obviously!

If I wanted to cancel my membership to the high council of intergalactic squid entities, i wouldnt bother doing anything, cause it doesnt exist in the first place. The beliefs of the CC fall into much the same bracket in my view.

Dades

Zillah wrote: »

I was going to post this, but then again what if he's just away for a week?

Who plans a weeks holidays 13 months in advance?!

Next census 10 April 2011, btw.

fitz0

Dades wrote: »

If you ain't in the country you shouldn't be on the census - though I appreciate the sentiment!

Fair point, I'm away for the year, but I'll be back not 2 weeks after the census is taken. I don't see a reason why I should be off the census until the next one comes around.

Tiddlers

I just wonder if people can truly or officially be considered atheist or agnostic if they have not defected from the catholic religion?

fitz0

Tiddlers wrote: »

I just wonder if people can truly or officially be considered atheist or agnostic if they have not defected from the catholic religion?

Why? Does being an involuntary member of an organization automatically invoke belief in a deity? Perchance you're thinking of anti-theism rather than atheism/agnosticism.

Daftendirekt

Tiddlers wrote: »

I just wonder if people can truly or officially be considered atheist or agnostic if they have not defected from the catholic religion?

Yes, as long as you know the secret handshake.

Zillah

Tiddlers wrote: »

I just wonder if people can truly or officially be considered atheist or agnostic if they have not defected from the catholic religion?

I have just added you to my roster for members of the Church of Byoxotl. I do not provide any means by which you can be removed from this list. You are therefore not an atheist and can never be.

In fact, I'm putting all of humanity, past present and future, on my list. Now there never have been, are not and never will be any atheists. I bet Kirk Cameron wish he thought of that.

Tiddlers

fitz0 wrote: »

Why? Does being an involuntary member of an organization automatically invoke belief in a deity? Perchance you're thinking of anti-theism rather than atheism/agnosticism.

No, but it affiliates or associates you with the religion even if you don't practice. If you once became a member (not just a supporter) of a political party but later you stopped believing in their policies or they did things that outraged you, anyone would be quick to leave and sever their ties with the party. You couldn't really continue being a member and start believing in another party.In my opinion, religion is the same.As far as I'm concerned the fact that membership to a religion is often involuntary it's an even greater reason to apostate and show what you believe.

Zillah

Tiddlers wrote: »

No, but it affiliates or associates you with the religion even if you don't practice. If you once became a member (not just a supporter) of a political party but later you stopped believing in their policies or they did things that outraged you, anyone would be quick to leave and sever their ties with the party. You couldn't really continue being a member and start believing in another party.In my opinion, religion is the same.As far as I'm concerned the fact that membership to a religion is often involuntary it's an even greater reason to apostate and show what you believe.

Atheism isn't about membership, it's about belief or lack thereof. I am both an atheist and a member of the Catholic Church. Feels very dirty even saying that though, I must get on with apostatizing myself.

fitz0

Tiddlers wrote: »

No, but it affiliates or associates you with the religion even if you don't practice. If you once became a member (not just a supporter) of a political party but later you stopped believing in their policies or they did things that outraged you, anyone would be quick to leave and sever their ties with the party. You couldn't really continue being a member and start believing in another party.In my opinion, religion is the same.As far as I'm concerned the fact that membership to a religion is often involuntary it's an even greater reason to apostate and show what you believe.

Fine Gael didn't pick me up as a baby and splash water on my head, so it's not really the same is it?