Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Steven Erikson Malazan series
Options
-
27-02-2010 1:15pmI came across one of his books there a while back, read through it and thought it was fairly decent, about number six or seven, so I went and bought the rest for a bit of light reading in the very little time I have to read these days.
Little did I know that it had taken him six or seven bumper sized novels to reach the level of "fairly decent" and even that was a fluke. Where to begin. Plot - deus ex machina is the rule for these efforts, if your characters are in a tight spot, make a magical wagon appear and bail them out. Or maybe a god shows up and wiggles a pinky to extricate the hapless heroes. Not that that will help them, he randomly kills off major characters as it suits him, which saves on character development I guess. Lazy as sin writing, not a tap of thought gone into most of it.
And while we're on the subject of his writing skills, introducing a new character every other page isn't a good indication of those, particularily when the few the reader might get attached to inevitably end up dead (not really that much of an inconvenience since he just regenerates the same sort of character in the next novel under a different name); also for the fun of it count the number of times you can see "..." in any given chapter in character conversations. Is this meant to lend weight to a sentence? If you put it in every other sentence Steven, it doesn't lend weight so much as drag the whole thing down, the William Shatner school of discourse. And the poetry! The labouring, wheezing, malformed poetry!
Internal consistency - while you're trying to keep track of the morass of new characters he introduces, he adds a penchant for randomly stringing letters together and calling them names. Ever notice how you can roughly tell someone's country of origin from their name? Yong Chow is probably Chinese, Jaques DeCourcy is probably French, Gunter Helmsson is probably German or Nordic anyway. Well no such luck with this beaut, which exacerbates his habit of making hundreds of new characters and switching between plot threads without rhyme or reason every few pages.
Now thats not to say there aren't occasional rare flashes of brilliance, in terms of some of the concepts and ideas he has, I'm just saying he should have paid a writer to express them. I doublechecked the publishing dates, and he's been rolling out one of these thousand page piles roughly every year and half, which should tell you plenty.
I sincerely regret wasting the money on these books now. Avoid.0
Comments
-
Out of interest, which books have you read so far?0
-
I have the first of the series, and I continually pick it up and try to get into it, but I have yet to achieve getting more than 100 pages in. That said, I've heard a lot of people describe the series as their favourite, so there must be something to it!0
-
Smellyirishman wrote: »Out of interest, which books have you read so far?0
-
Amhran Nua wrote: »I started out with Reaper's gale, then went back to the first one, Gardens of the moon and worked my way through about three or four of them, I don't think I'll read the rest. As I mentioned I bought the series all at once on the strength of the one I read; he does from time to time have strokes of genius as far as ideas go, but the shortcomings of the writing style, plot, character development and layout badly outweigh the positives in my opinion. Fantasy is light entertainment, or at least thats what I get out of it, but thats no reason to let basic standards fall by the wayside either. They could have been incredible in the hands of a competent writer.
I can understand your point of view,for one thing they are very hard to
follow in any kind of timeline.Also the way he skip's from one character to the next is dizzying.
Imo however there are some wonderful characters.
I wont spoil anything for the people who havent read them.
I'll just say Kruppe and Karsa alone are worth persevering
for.Not to mention Tehol the absurd.
I'll leave it at that,there are a lot of fans of the Malazan on boards
far more eloquent than me,
who i'm sure you'll be hearing from shortly.
Reap the whirlwind!0 -
I'll just say Kruppe and Karsa alone are worth persevering for.the fat locquacious guy in book 2 or 3, and Mappo Trell, even the walking nuke(s) are fairly stereotypical*cough* I mean having heroic characters struggle against the odds and win out by wit and skill is one thing, for example Mhoram in Donaldson's Covenant series, but when you havethis epic trail of tears/chain of dogs deal that is so inspiring that it apparently pushes the main leaders into godhood, except they were saved by the wanderly wagon instead, I have no idea how anyone could empathise with the chancers.Sloppy stuff.Reap the whirlwind!0
-
Advertisement
-
Amhran Nua wrote: »But sure he did them twice *cough*the fat locquacious guy in book 2 or 3, and Mappo Trell, even the walking nuke(s) are fairly stereotypical*cough* I mean having heroic characters struggle against the odds and win out by wit and skill is one thing, for example Mhoram in Donaldson's Covenant series, but when you havethis epic trail of tears/chain of dogs deal that is so inspiring that it apparently pushes the main leaders into godhood, except they were saved by the wanderly wagon instead, I have no idea how anyone could empathise with the chancers.Sloppy stuff.
As long as its bringing a refund.Never thought of wanderly wagon quite that way before.
By comparing it with Covenant you've found the chink in
my armour.Cant imagine myself arguing against Mhoram.
Where are all the Malazaners gone?
Its all very quiet at the back...0 -
Well I'm not out to annoy people, I feel genuinely hard done by in this situation, I thought it had taken him six books to build up the amount of threads and characters he had, not six chapters. To his credit he deals withstorylines stretching from the stone age to the medievalbetter than almost anyone I've seen yet, and the oases of philosophical consideration can be somewhat entertaining. The balance is not favourable though, as the string of neighbours hanging off the doorbell to complain about the reverbrations from molars grinding can attest. It took Tolkien decades to produce one thousand page masterpiece, Erikson is trotting a similar size book out every year or so.
Thats my rant done anyway, time to go back to criticising politicians instead...0 -
Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,091 Mod ✭✭✭✭Join Date:Posts: 59267
Best series I have ever read(closely followed by A Song of Ice and Fire), not only that, you are the only person i have ever heard express dislike for them so he must be doing something right.0 -
Tar.Aldarion wrote: »Best series I have ever read(closely followed by A Song of Ice and Fire), not only that, you are the only person i have ever heard express dislike for them so he must be doing something right.At this stage there appears to be a multitude of characters; in fact there are only a handful or so of archetypes. The comedy is music hall and the writing is getting lazier and more perfunctory as the series goes on.
...
Don`t get me wrong...I love epics..the more books in a series, the better. Unfortunately, after buying and reading 3 of Erikson`s, I feel quite confused. I`m constantly trying to keep up with the plot, the characters, the landscape, with everything.
...
Other minuses: annoying names, too much deus ex machina (literally!), military nonsense (recruitment of teenage girls, 100-mile fronts drawn in the wilderness), stereotypical characters (the long-suffering loyal soldier, several poseur assasins, angst-ridden young men, grim determined women, Oscar Wilde-wannabes).
...
Another major gripe of course is the claim that Erikson is a pioneer and an original, when he in fact himself will admit that he owes more than a huge debt to Glen Cook's Black Company Chronicles. Having read Cook's work subsequently I can tell you that some of the stuff in the Malazan Books is near-plagiarism. Cook, however, writes in a tight, efficient and engaging manner that makes his work infinitely more readable and rewarding than Erikson's... Sadly though, all this excellent world building is drowned out by the mundanity of the prose and the very deliberate incoherence of the plotting. There are those who will argue that my distaste for this book is proof that I do not possess the intelligence or stamina for a well-plotted epic like this. However, the work of Samuel Beckett is deeply infused with the unexplained and the incoherent, yet it remains funny, engaging and above all rewarding. Making your book 'hard to read' is not the mark of a good writer by any means.0 -
Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,091 Mod ✭✭✭✭Join Date:Posts: 59267
You will find them for everything, a lot of people hate LoTR, it's boring, long winded etc. I just meant by word of mouth, I've talked to a lot of people about these books and usually people go to great lengths to get others to read them, buying the first one for them etc. Only series that people do that for that I know.
A lot of that is 'it's hard to follow' or the names are 'annoying'...are they serious? Because there are more than a few characters? Anomander should have been John.There are good reasons one might not like these, these are not those imo. I find all the characters quite refreshing really, rather than a boring hero with a troubled past being the only one of consequence.
Sure you have your opinion, just really surprised to hear it, as all I have heard is praise for years! I can't really argue with somebody not liking the writing. (:
I am happy he kills of characters I like, I am soooo tired of knowing what is going to happen in books. I still enjoy them, but i'd prefer not to know how things turn out 3 seconds into a book. A Song of Ice and Fire was the first series that really killed a character I felt for, that you didn't think would die, I loved that.
Oh, if you don't want the books, how much do you want for them, I gave all mine away to people and I've been meaning to read em again.0 -
Advertisement
-
Its not so much that there are more than a few characters, its that there are more than a few characters per chapter. The names grate because there is no linguistic thread linking them to their cultural/geographic milieu, they are etymologically random, which makes the number of characters even harder to follow - although its more a few archetypes as was mentioned. Also if major characters are killed in every single book, it sort of spoils the surprise.
Thats my two cents anyway, I've already passed them on to my cousin who like yourself is a fan of the series, otherwise I'd be quite happy to unburden the bookshelf.0 -
On name etymology, I find his practise on the whole more satisfactory than an author using lazy memes and tropes to serve as identifying tags for cultures, countrys of origin etc. Every fantasy series out there it seems has dour northerners who fight with axes and are great sailors with names like Olaf, languid aristocratic duellist types with names like Louis de Poitier and so on and so forth.
That to me is lazy writing.
On the Deus Ex Machina and killing of major characters, surely they operate in opposition to each other? Generally I've been surprised by who he's killed and who he hasn't. Specifically I've felt that the use of D E M has set up some characters for deaths that wouldn't have resonated otherwise.Coltaine in particular really surprised me.I could understand if one or the other seemed to dominate, but really they seem balanced to me.0 -
On name etymology, I find his practise on the whole more satisfactory than an author using lazy memes and tropes to serve as identifying tags for cultures, countrys of origin etc. Every fantasy series out there it seems has dour northerners who fight with axes and are great sailors with names like Olaf, languid aristocratic duellist types with names like Louis de Poitier and so on and so forth.On the Deus Ex Machina and killing of major characters, surely they operate in opposition to each other? Generally I've been surprised by who he's killed and who he hasn't. Specifically I've felt that the use of D E M has set up some characters for deaths that wouldn't have resonated otherwise.Coltaine in particular really surprised me.I could understand if one or the other seemed to dominate, but really they seem balanced to me.The chain of dogs thread was a particularly egregious example of that.If he wanted to set them up to knock them down he'd come up with innovative and intelligent ways for them to pull themselves out of the mess, but instead its just waving of the magic wand. That he hasn't done that either means laziness on his part or a lack of capability.
Edit: and as I've me second wind, he's borrowed massively from the likes of Moorcock as well -an albino swordsman-prince that has a soul drinking sword (Elric!), the wagon train/city rolling round the plains in circles, exactly the same as the world of chaos in one of Moorcocks' books, I forget which.0 -
Well I'm very happy with them so far. On a couple of your points:
Characters - I'll give you the fact that in certain situations there's too many characters. Primarily this applies to the Malazan soldiers themselves and the various units where it can become difficult to distinguish them.
I do think though that there's more than enough unique and interesting ones in the series. I don't believe the fact some are re-incarnated in some form is a shortcut because it's generally fuelled by a plot (i.e. there's a reason for it and it can be fun trying to tease it out).
The etymology angle doesn't bother me. Too often in books the names are tied down to directly to the culture - like Nevore says it can be even lazier to do it like this.
Plot - Erikson has claimed, from the start, that he's got a grand plan. I believe him and the rate of delivery indicates that he knows where's he going. I don't think he's using "deus-ex machina" very often at all. There's not many cases where a whole situation is altered via a magic wand - the one you cited doesn't really apply (IMO).
Prose - I do agree Erikson could do with an editor. Bad poetry is with far too many fantasy novels so I'll forgive him that, but he needs someone to cut down on some of the more rambling descriptions and conversations. I recall it being said that he only does one editorial pass himself on his work - it somewhat shows. Other fantasy authors seem to hover over every single word and can go too far in the opposite direction (George R.R. Martin!)
Out of curiosity, what fantasy authors do you like of the last decade or so?0 -
Hmm, all these positive reviews are making me want to take another crack at this series...0
-
I do think though that there's more than enough unique and interesting ones in the series.I don't believe the fact some are re-incarnated in some form is a shortcut because it's generally fuelled by a plot (i.e. there's a reason for it and it can be fun trying to tease it out).The etymology angle doesn't bother me. Too often in books the names are tied down to directly to the culture - like Nevore says it can be even lazier to do it like this.
That time and effort shows through in what is a quality work which resonates with readers, culminating in three blockbuster movies. Erikson, on the other hand, is Uwe Boll territory.Plot - Erikson has claimed, from the start, that he's got a grand plan.I believe him and the rate of delivery indicates that he knows where's he going.I don't think he's using "deus-ex machina" very often at all. There's not many cases where a whole situation is altered via a magic wand - the one you cited doesn't really apply (IMO).a wagon popping up out of nowhere complete with an airdrop of supplies for the starving refugees before vanishing off into the etherqualifies as not deus ex machina.but he needs someone to cut down on some of the more rambling descriptions and conversations.
The closer I look at the series the fewer clothes Emporer Kellanved appears to be wearing, to be honest.Out of curiosity, what fantasy authors do you like of the last decade or so?lemon_sherbert wrote: »Hmm, all these positive reviews are making me want to take another crack at this series...0 -
Amhran Nua wrote: »Again, writers like Stephen King and Moorcock can get away with archetypes because thats what they are trying to do, very obviously - its used to enhance the story if you spot it (count the number of baddies with the initials R and F in King's work) - not through the back door like Erikson who tries to disguise it in the swarm of new characters.I think you may have missed my point here - I'm not saying all the hulking warriors should be called Grund Axsson, but that there should be a "ring" to names linking them to their milieu. Tolkien for example spent a great deal of time creating entirely new etymologies and indeed languages; when you read his books you can tell without asking who is an elf and who is a dwarf, a hobbit from an inhabitant of Gondor, although they bear little relation to existing languages and cultures.
EDIT: Just read an article on names in fantasy series, and there's a poster here who lays out reasons why they like the names in the Malazan series.That time and effort shows through in what is a quality work which resonates with readers, culminating in three blockbuster movies. Erikson, on the other hand, is Uwe Boll territory.Donaldson's Gap series is an example of a breathtaking mastery of the weaving of disparate threads into a very much non DEM ending, marvellous work from an author at his peak.
If you want deus-ex machina in sci-fi, check out the Night's Dawn trilogy..Or that he can't believe his luck and is rattling them off as fast as the keyboard can take it before someone catches on.The closer I look at the series the fewer clothes Emporer Kellanved appears to be wearing, to be honest.I'm not sure why you stipulated the last decade or so, there are great books from many periods.Sci-fi from the 1950s can be fascinating, a far cry from Gibson's neuromancer.
I've read a good bit of Philip K. Dick's short stories, all of Arthur C. Clarke's short stories, and some old Assimov and there's some excellent ideas there alright but I always find myself more involved in some of the newer authors.0 -
I always thought the Andii and Edur names were very distinctive, you can usually tell an Andii name from any of the other characters instantly. The majority of the malazan characters in the series never really go by their birth name so its hard to give most of the characters birthplaces.
I agree that there maybe should be more distinction between characters coming fromcivilisations that trace their origins back to the first empireand those that don't.0 -
So you're saying that King deliberately re-uses archetypes in a way that is purposely clear to the fans (such as Randall Flagg and the other R.F. baddies) but that Erikson re-uses them in a lazy way?I'm not sure I want to have all elves with soft consonants in their names, or the chitinous ant creatures to always be replete with apostrophes.EDIT: Just read an article on names in fantasy series, and there's a poster here who lays out reasons why they like the names in the Malazan series.Oh come on - you're now claiming Erikson is the worst author in fantasy circles? There's plenty of discerning readers here, most of whom enjoy Erikson. You can't honestly believe we'd all read any old rubbish and that only you've seen through this?If you want deus-ex machina in sci-fi, check out the Night's Dawn trilogy..Or maybe we're all enjoying them for the sort of heady fun that they are and letting us try and untangle the intricate plot lines. Yes there might be something to be said for not having to disentagle and infer so much, but for many of us that's half the fun.It's a series that looks like it could fall apart at times but somehow, I think, Erikson keeps getting away with it. It's like an insane house of cards that keeps building upwards but has yet to tumble.Primarily because you cited Moorcock and wondered if you liked any of the current fantasy authors. There's some excellent ones out there writing - George R.R. Martin, Patrick Rothuss, F. Scott Lynch. All of those are quite tightly written where the author isn't knocking them out (as you feel above) so are worth checking out if you haven't already. I'd also put China Miéville in there as a contemporary author above nearly all others and with numerous critical plaudits to his name.The character Anomander Rake is a practical carbon copy of Michael Moorcock's Elric character, albino appearance, soul drinking sword, all he needed to do was make it sing and the "homage" would be complete. Other reviewers have pointed out the virtual plagiarism from the Black company series, and I'm fairly certain a few more thinly disguised remixes could be dug out given the inclination to look for them.
I am indeed familiar with many more modern works, that a credible stab was made at Erikson's efforts should be testament enough to that.I generally find, for me, it doesn't age too well. Partially that's because other authors subsequently build up on the original idea - so Rama has a BFO in the sky but, for me, my introduction would be by way of Greg Bear's Eon.
I've read a good bit of Philip K. Dick's short stories, all of Arthur C. Clarke's short stories, and some old Assimov and there's some excellent ideas there alright but I always find myself more involved in some of the newer authors.
With the universe at their doorsteps, those writers set the pace for much of what was to come. Some of the stuff you can find from back then is still not in the mainstream, for example the Cordwainer Smith story "The Game of Rat and Dragon".
I don't see the need to make a great differentiation between good sci fi from the 1950s and more modern efforts, in particular the likes of Alastair Reynolds.0 -
Sounds like you didn't want to like them tbh0
-
Advertisement
-
-
How many of the books have you read? Also seems strange that you started on Reaper's Gale.0
-
pljudge321 wrote: »How many of the books have you read? Also seems strange that you started on Reaper's Gale.0
-
Amhran Nua wrote: »Here. Why would that be strange?
Because its book 7 in a series of 10, the usual way would be to start at the first book.0 -
pljudge321 wrote: »Because its book 7 in a series of 10, the usual way would be to start at the first book.0
-
Amhran Nua wrote: »The most notable difference is that King uses them across different series', not in the same book. If you had fifty carbon copy scary characters popping up without the initials R and F in one voluminous tome you be closer to what Erikson is doing.There is no reason that you couldn't create an entirely new linguistic thread for any new race or nationality you could imagine, just as he did. It takes a bit of time and effort, which Erikson elected not to bother with, for which his work suffers badly, in particular given his penchant for expressing his half dozen archetypes anew every chapter.An eye-watering kidney punch of an ending to an otherwise incredible series. This is what happens when an author just runs out of ideas/ingenuity and magicks it all away. One difference though is that he saved it for the end, while with Erikson its part of the daily routine.If the criteria for "tumbling" is that he stops rolling them out, then yes, it has yet to tumble.What I find interesting about this comment is the subtext implying that many of the readers of Erikson might be unfamiliar with Moorcock's work, which is probably accurate.
Nonetheless fantasy books have many tropes and I think Erikson has created more than enough of his own to be worthy of reading. Most fantasy books are unoriginal, when dissected, and I think Erikson's ancient cultures, history, etc. have more than enough in them.I am indeed familiar with many more modern works, that a credible stab was made at Erikson's efforts should be testament enough to that.With the universe at their doorsteps, those writers set the pace for much of what was to come. Some of the stuff you can find from back then is still not in the mainstream, for example the Cordwainer Smith story "The Game of Rat and Dragon".0 -
I actually had that R.F. point in an original post that got lost but still, how is it any more acceptable to do it across multiple series? How is it less lazy? Or is trying to connect them all through the Dark Tower series, and the whole meta angle there, enough to get him off the hook?
In Erikson's case he, to give an quick overview, raids the work of original writers quite liberally, slaps a together random syllables and calls them names, fleshes out the characters with very standard issue archetypes, perhaps with the odd quirk, and creates and destroys them with abandon, hoping it won't be spotted, the very epitome of baffling with bullsh*t.Okay how many other authors have done this in fantasy? Nearly all works borrow from the linguistic conventions set up by Tolkein.Daily? Now you make it sound like an occurrence in every chapter. I'll grant you that there's been maybe a few times too many where the caravans appear and save the day, but in general I'm just not noticing it.I think the series is a little like "Lost" in some regards. ... I don't over analyse!I'd say it is very accurate. I've read a fair bit of fantasy, but have yet to read Moorcock's Elric work. It's on a "to read" list somewhere, but not far up it (I want to read "The Book of the New Sun" first, for example in the classics).Most fantasy books are unoriginal, when dissected, and I think Erikson's ancient cultures, history, etc. have more than enough in them.The aged but nimble wizard and lethal yet haunted assassin archetypes are both black, what a shocker, and dogs civilised men instead of the other way round.As already mentioned he does have some great ideas, but in terms of culture, you can't just invent a swathe of cameo characters and call it world building.Which modern works would you hold out as good examples of writing? I might've missed something but I only noticed Moorcock and Donaldson, hardly new writers at this point (the Covenant series is from the '80s IIRC, discounting the latest quartet). In particular do you rate any of the authors that have appeared in the last decade?).
One of the things I like about fantasy though is that it doesn't grow old, unlike sci-fi, which is by its nature set in the future, which must inevitably become the present at some stage. Thus, comparing the work of older sci-fi writers to the work of older fantasy writers is chalk and cheese, really. One of the greatest and most enduring fantasy classics of all time, the Lord of the Rings, was written in the 1940s!
Do you feel there has been a shift in fantasy writing over the last ten years that would differentiate it from previous efforts, and if so, in what way? How would this impact on writers like Martin who you also enjoy, whose work stretches over several decades? Also, I have to admit to a certain amount of curiosity as to the overall point you are trying to make here.Yes, but I still sometimes find the style and settings to be old.0 -
The Tyrgalle Trade Guild caravans don't "just appear", its made pretty clear that it was orchestrated by Dujek and Quick Ben, the same Guild features again later in the series. Its no more a deus ex machina then the eagles in Lord of the Rings.0
-
pljudge321 wrote: »The Tyrgalle Trade Guild caravans don't "just appear", its made pretty clear that it was orchestrated by Dujek and Quick Ben, the same Guild features again later in the series. Its no more a deus ex machina then the eagles in Lord of the Rings.At least the eagles have an earlier connection within the story, as well as in the Hobbit, plus they are deeply interwoven throughout his histories. A better comparison might be if Frodo and Sam were saved by balloon people riding dirigibles of woven reeds at the end.0
-
Advertisement
-
Just to wrap most of this up, here's a lengthy and amusing list of jaded mechanics and tropes used by the series:* Achey Scars, born by Toc the Younger (eye)
* The Alliance (The forces arrayed against the Malazan Empire's invasion of Genabackis, and later against the Pannion Domin.)
o In backstory, most of the Elder Gods and ascendants and the Jaghut and T'lan Imass coming together to chain the Crippled God
* Aloof Big Brother (Fear Sengar and Tavore Parran as a Gender Flip)
* Amnesiac Dissonance (Apsalar is an odd case. She has most of her old memories, but she got some of Cotillion's memories from when he possessed her.)
* And I Must Scream (Lots of examples)
* Animorphism (Soletaken and D'ivers)
* Anti Villain: Cotillion is an obvious example. Anomander Rake looks like one at first, but gradually turns out to be more purely heroic.
* Anyone Can Die: Most poignantly demonstrated at the end of Memories of Ice with the death of Sergeant Whiskeyjack. But see also Death Is Cheap, below.
* Arc Fatigue (The Tiste Edur and Jade Giant storylines.)
* Artifact Of Doom
* Ass Pull: See also Deus Ex Machina below.
* Author Tract (Gets really Anvilicious in Toll the Hounds with the long ramblings in omniscient voice.)
* Ax Crazy (Smiles)
* Badass Army: Up the wazoo, Bridgeburners and Bonehunters are two examples.
* Badass (Most obvious examples are Anomander Rake, Karsa Orlong and Silchas Ruin. Many Bridgeburners also qualify.)
* Badass Normal
* Big Bad (The Crippled God. Although he is not introduced until Memories of Ice and plays next to no role in several books.
o Technically, he's mentioned in passing in books one and two- it's just not until Memories of Ice that the reader becomes aware of his central role.
* Black And Gray Morality (alliance vs. Pannion Domin in Memories of Ice; Crippled God vs. everyone else)
* Black And White Morality (Anomander Rake vs. Chaos in Toll the Hounds)
* Blessed With Suck
* Born Lucky (Corabb Bhilan Thenu'alas)
* Bottle Fairy (Sergeant Helian is an oddly competent bottle fairy, managing to lead an invasion force across Lether while being drunk the whole time)
* Break The Cutie (Felisin Paran)
* Broken Bird (Ditto)
* Butch Lesbian (Tavore Paran)
* Canon Sue (Arguably Whiskeyjack). And every third character.
* Celibate Hero (Shield Anvil Itkovian)
* Chekhov's Gun (Most notably, Whiskeyjack's injured leg in Memories of Ice)
* Chivalrous Pervert (Tehol Beddict)
* Creepy Child (Kettle)
* Colony Drop (Moon's Spawn getting dropped on the Pannon Domin army in Memories of Ice)
* Conservation Of Ninjitsu (Despite the Claw being played up as elite assassins and mages, Kalam manages to tear through the best of them in both Deadhouse Gates and again in The Bonehunters. However, he ends both occasions badly wounded and is Not Quite Dead at the end of Bonehunters. Somewhat justified by him being a Clawmaster and a match for the patron god of assassins, pre-ascension.)
* Constructed World
* Cool Sword (Dragnipur, Karsa's bloodwood swords.)
* Dance Battler (Some Shadow Dancers. You don't want to mess with them.)
* Dark Action Girl / Dark Magical Girl (Apsalar)
* Dark Is Not Evil (Anomander Rake and the Tiste Andii in general.)
* Deadpan Snarker (Lots of them)
* Death From Above (Moon's Spawn)
* Death Is Cheap: Hood, the god of death, apparently does a shoddy job at keeping the dead dead, because people come Back From The Dead (or Back From the Not Quite Dead) in droves. In Gardens of the Moon alone we have at least Hairlock, Ganoes Paran and Tattersail.
* Death Seeker
* Demonic Possession (Okay, divine possession. Close enough.)
* Deus Ex Machina (This is the primary purpose of the Houses of Azath. In addition, the Trygalle Trading Guild in Deadhouse Gates, the army of Bridgeburner ghosts in House of Chains.)
* Diabolus Ex Machina
* Did I Just Say That Out Loud (Iskaral Pust)
* Did You Just Punch Out Cthulhu (Quick Ben does this a lot)
o Notably subverted with the Crippled God.
* Doorstopper: All the books are over 700 pages, some up to 1200.
* Drop The Hammer: Caladan Brood wields a great hammer so badass that it has the power to awaken the sleeping earth goddess Burn (whose body is apparently the earth itself).
* Dual Wielding (knifes, swords, cutlasses, flails...)
* Elemental Powers (more than the traditional four)
* The Empire (The Malazan Empire, somewhat subverted in that many of the protagonists work for it and in that maybe it isn't as evil as it seems at first glance. The Lether Empire on the other hand is a straight example.)
* Ensemble Darkhorse (Felisin)
* Et Tu Brute (Rhulad finally snaps when Udinaas, the closest thing he had to a friend, leaves him. Not that Udinaas had a choice in the matter...)
* Everythings Better With Chickens at Tehol Beddict's house in Reaper's Gale.
* Evil Albino (Silchas Ruin, described as "the most cruel of the three sons of Mother Dark".)
* Evil Chancellor (Triban Gnol)
* Fantastic Racism (Both subverted and played straight. Humans are racist towards other humans just like in real life, but the Tiste races hate each other.)
* Fate Worse Than Death (Getting killed by Dragnipur equals spending eternity chained to the gates of the Warren of Darkness.
* Floating Continent (Moon's Spawn. And the island of Drift Avalii floats literally in the ocean.)
* Functional Magic (The Warrens)
* Genius Loci (The Mockra Warren and Azath Houses)
* Gondor Calls For Aid (the siege of Capustan in Memories of Ice, although the besieged are strangers to the heroes)
* Grey And Gray Morality (Malazans vs. Darujhistan in Gardens of the Moon, Tiste Edur vs. Letherii in Midnight Tides)
* Hellhounds (The Hounds of Shadow, and later, the Deragoth (Hounds of Darkness) and Hounds of Light)
* Hellish Horse (Karsa's horse, Havok)
o both of them
* Her Heart Will Go On ( Seren Pedac)
* Heroic Sociopath (Karsa Orlong, especially early on.)
* Heterosexual Life Partners
* Hide Your Lesbians (Tavore Paran and T'amber)
* Im A Humanitarian
* Implacable Man (The Forkul Assail and T'lan Imass are races composed of implacable men.)
* Jack Attack: (Sargent Whiskyjack.)
* Jigsaw Puzzle Plot: (And only half the pieces are available....)
* Kaleidoscope Eyes (Anomander Rake)
* Karmic Death (Most of the antagonists that don't die in direct battle get one of these.)
* Kill Em All (75% of the Loads And Loads Of Characters will not be breathing by the end of their third book. A good third won't make it to the end of their debut book. It's called Book of the Fallen for a reason.)
* Kill The Cutie: (Tattersail in Gardens of the Moon.)
* Knife Nut (Smiles)
* Knight Templar (most of the Tiste Liosan seem to be this way)
* Kudzu Plot (Oh, boy...)
* Light Is Not Good (the Tiste Liosan)
* Lipstick Lesbian (Stonny Menackis)
* Loads And Loads Of Characters (Reaper's Gale has seventy-two named Malazan soldiers. Seventy-two. Steven Erikson tries to give them all distinctive personalities, and fails.)
* Loads And Loads Of Races (And they're all Proud Warrior Race Guys.)
* Love Martyr (Crokus/Cutter for Apsalar)
* Love It Or Hate It (The series as a whole, and Midnight Tides in particular)
* Mask Power (Redmask, the Seguleh)
* The Masochism Tango (Iskaral Pust and Mogora, Karsa Orlong and Samar Dev)
* Mauve Shirt (mostly Malazan soldiers; it is possible that the Bridgeburners' burgundy uniforms are a Lampshade Hanging on the whole Red Shirt thing)
* Mayfly December Romance (Whiskeyjack (human middle age) and Korlat (millennia) in Memories of Ice, Spinnock Durav (also millennia) and Salind (teenager) in Toll the Hounds)
* Messianic Archetype (Anomander Rake in Toll the Hounds. Don't forget Coltaine in Deadhouse Gates, the guy ends up being crucified on a hill top then is reborn, not to mention the devotion and worship that surrounds him both before and after his 'death' the author actually seems to go out of his way to add parallels between him and good old JC )
* Mind Rape
* Medieval Stasis (Not a pure example. While the world is truly ancient, different civilizations, some of which not even human, have risen and fallen many times.)
* Moral Event Horizon (A particularly obvious example, Sirryn Kanar in Reaper's Gale seems to exist solely to cross it repeatedly.)
* MS T3k Mantra (Don't try to make sense of the timeline; really, don't.)
* Mushroom Samba (the hallucinogenic honey in The Bonehunters)
* Mytharc (the backstory covers literally hundreds of thousands of years, repeatedly)
* Names To Run Away From Really Fast ("The Emperor Of A Thousand Deaths", Icarium Lifestealer, "The Son Of Darkness")
* The Neidermeyer
* No Biochemical Barriers (all kinds of hybrids between different intelligent species)
* No One Could Survive That (several times with different characters)
* The Not Secret (Sgt.Fiddler Strings and Daseem Ultor Traveler don't seem to be fooling anyone who's even heard of them, pre-name change)
* Obfuscating Stupidity: Kruppe, Tehol Beddict, Bugg. Possibly also Iskaral Pust, although he might just be genuinely mad.
* Older Than They Think (The series owes a consdiderable debt to The Black Company.)
* Oracular Urchin (Kettle, Grub)
* Our Demons Are Different
* Our Dragons Are Different
* Our Elves Are Better (Tiste races)
* Our Orcs Are Different (The Jaghuts: with the exception of the Tyrants, they are actually peaceful in nature.)
* Our Zombies Are Different (The T'lan Imass).
* Overshadowed By Awesome (Crokus is an absolutely lethal assassin and knife fighter, whose skills surpass people who were Badass in the first book. He just keeps ending up in fights with immortals, demigods and monsters.)
o He finally gets to take on opponents in his weight class in Toll The Hounds, and shines.
* Physical God (All the Ascendants and Elder Gods.)
* Planet Eris (The Malazan world may be the most insane Constructed World in the history of fantasy.)
* Proud Warrior Race Guy (Karsa Orlong. Again. And many others.)
o Karsa Orlong might also be seen as an attempt at a subversion or deconstruction.
* Ragtag Bunch Of Misfits (Seems to be a requirement to join the Malazan army.)
* Rape Is The New Dead Parents (Felisin, Stonny)
* Religion Of Evil (The Faith of the Pannion Seer.)
* Rotating Arcs
* Rule Of Cool (As of Memories of Ice, zombie velociraptors with swords for hands.)
* The Scrappy (The Mhbye in Memories of Ice. Depending on who you ask Karsa Orlong and/or Kruppe as well.)
* Sealed Badass In A Can
* Sealed Evil In A Can (Or buried in a barrow. Or chained to a monolith. Or captured by a House of the Azath. Grave robbing and amateur archeology are dangerous indeed in this world. Played straight, but also subverted at least once, in that the big, unstoppable evil gods rose... to be dispatched within minutes by the new Badasses who have arisen to replace them.)
* Seasonal Rot (House of Chains and most of the books that follow it.)
* Sliding Scale Of Idealism Versus Cynicism (Leaning to the "cynical" side.)
* Smug Snake (Triban Gnol, Karos Invictad)
* Soul Jar (Jaghut Finnests)
* Species Lost And Found (repeatedly)
* Sword Fights (lots of them)
* The Messiah (Trull Sengar)
* The Nascent Did It
* The Power Of Friendship (Is what allows the T'Lan Imass Tool and Onrack to start feeling emotions again. Is also what enables Beak's Heroic Sacrifice.)
* The Undead and Dem Bones
* Third Person Person (Kruppe)
* This Is Your Brain On Evil (About half of the Crippled God's followers get screwed over because they allied with him.)
* Thirty Xanatos Pileup (Every god, Ascendant, and major human leader has some sort of long-range plan)
* Turncoat
* Tykebomb (Apsalar and Rud Elalle)
* Unstoppable Rage (Icarium)
* Viewers Are Geniuses
* Wangst: So bad it results in Angst Dissonance for many readers. The Tiste Andii explicitly have Wangst as their Hat... although they are not more wangsty than everyone else...
* We Hardly Knew Ye: Tattersail
* With Great Power Comes Great Insanity (Icarium, Sinn, Feather Witch, Hannan Mosag and lots of the followers of the Crippled God)
* Who Wants To Live Forever (The "naturally immortal species are immune to this" angle is subverted with the Tiste Andii; also, the Emperor of a Thousand Deaths is an example of the Blessed With Suck variety.)
* World Of Badass (Very nearly everyone is a badass to some degree.)
* Woobie Destroyer of Worlds (The Crippled God.)
* You Shall Not Pass: Trull Sengar fights Icarium to a standstill to protect the child army of House Shadow.0
Advertisement