Main dealer sold me car with outstanding finance

username123

So I bought a car. Paid deposit on saturday, paid balance on monday, couldnt collect car til thursday. Main dealer so i thought no problems but something told me to check finance anyway.

Did so. Discovered finance outstanding. Phoned dealership on thursday, told salesman Id found finance outstanding. His first words were 'there is no finance outstanding on that car?!?!?'. I assured him there was, he went to investigate and phoned me 2 hours later stating that there WAS outstanding finance on the car, but that he had spoken to the previous owner, and it was going to be settled that day. He still wanted me to collect the car at 5pm (on the basis of that nice verbal contract that finance would be sorted). I refused to collect car, said I wanted to see documentation from loaning institution that finance was settled on car. He hummed and hawed, said he would phone me back.

Later that day. I had a chance to think about things and decided I wasnt happy with state of affairs. Phoned consumer connect who assure me I am entitled to full refund as goods misrepresented to me. No call back from dealership so I called to them myself later that evening. Salesman more or less made me out to be an idiot for even considering outstanding finance was an issue. Told me to deal with manager next morning.

This morning. I phone manager and tell him i am not happy with situation and want to cancel deal and have full refund. I am then subjected to 30 minutes of what can only be described as brow beating, he accused me of having an ulterior motive, said Im unreasonable, said there was no problem, no finance outstanding on car. I pointed out finance was outstanding when car sold to me, and Id paid in full and finance issue only addressed because I brought it up. Refused to listen to anything I said. Circular conversation where he just keeps repeating that there is no finance outstanding on car and i repeat that there WAS until I brought it to his attention. Besides general bad attitude he also directly contradicted SIMI consumer documention claiming liability would not have fallen on me, this is normal practice, these 'websites or whatever' that I got my information from are wrong etc...etc....

Eventually he agrees to give me back monies but that he is keeping the deposit. Says that I am cancelling contract for no good reason and he is entitled to keep deposit. Consumer connect say different. I now have option of small claims court, SIMI complaint process and/or solicitor. A lot of hassle basically.

Anyone experienced similar - what was outcome?

TheColl

Sorry to hear you've had such a bad experience. Not sure what the SIMI complaint process is like but if it's not going to cost anything then I'd definitely go through it, would hate to think of a dealer getting away with this kind of crap. Best of luck mate.

Shane732

You wouldn't happen to know any solicitors would you? I think a friendly letter from a solicitor would do the trick here. As I'm sure you're aware the dealer is just trying to rip you off here.

If you don't know a solicitor then I'd suggest you go down the lines of SIMI and a submission to the small claims court simultaneously. If going down the lines of the small claims court you should write a very brief letter to the just outlining that you are going to the small claims court. I'd imagine that would get him off his arse.

I'd pursue both until you get a result from this. It's a case that you will win.

It disgusts me that a dealer thinks he can get away with this.

The dealership also deserves to be named and shamed. I certainly wouldn't want to do business with anyone who acts like this.

Anan1

I'm not really sure why you would be entitled to (or want to) cancel the contract and be repaid in full if the finance was going to be settled?

PoleStar

Anan1 wrote: »

I'm not really sure why you would be entitled to (or want to) cancel the contract and be repaid in full if the finance was going to be settled?

This is a ridiculous thing to say. The finance was not going to be settled at time of purchase. What if the previous owner does a runner/losesjob/gets an illness.

Fair play to the OP for taking on the dealer, they were just chancing their arm I would say and hope you would just give in to them. It seems to me that they probably realise they have been sold a dinger which hasnt been payed for and want to get the liability off their forecourt as soon as possible by some unsuspecting lackey.

If they are so confident that the finance is not an issue and will be paid off then I would imagine the dealer would have no problem providing you a written confirmation that in the even of difficulties that they accept full liability and will pay the finance off.

Please let us know how you get on.

Drummerboy08

PoleStar wrote: »

This is a ridiculous thing to say. The finance was not going to be settled at time of purchase. What if the previous owner does a runner/losesjob/gets an illness.

Fair play to the OP for taking on the dealer, they were just chancing their arm I would say and hope you would just give in to them. It seems to me that they probably realise they have been sold a dinger which hasnt been payed for and want to get the liability off their forecourt as soon as possible by some unsuspecting lackey.

Please let us know how you get on.

It sounds to me as if you dont know all of the facts involved here, and you are just spouting random sh1te.

Op, if the finance was going to be settled, why not offer to pick up the car at a later date, rather than pulling out of the sale? FWIW, I think the dealer is entitled to keep your deposit.

Anan1

PoleStar wrote: »

This is a ridiculous thing to say. The finance was not going to be settled at time of purchase. What if the previous owner does a runner/losesjob/gets an illness.

The OP could have delayed collection until the finance was paid off.

PoleStar

Anan1 wrote: »

The OP could have delayed collection until the finance was paid off.

You seem to be forgetting one thing, the dealer HAS misrepresented the situation to the OP.

The dealer HAS the OP's money.

The OP only has a verbal from the dealer that the finance will be paid off.

If the OP goes ahead with the purchase, should there be an issue with payment of the finance then it becomes the OP's problem.

If the OP goes for the dealers option and just waits for the finance to be paid, then if there is delay, during that time the dealer has the OP's hard earned cash.

And whover said I am "spouting sh 1te" is trolling I think and I am most offended by the insult.

Kristopherus

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

It sounds to me as if you dont know all of the facts involved here, and you are just spouting random sh1te.

Op, if the finance was going to be settled, why not offer to pick up the car at a later date, rather than pulling out of the sale? FWIW, I think the dealer is entitled to keep your deposit.

I think you are the one thats spouting. No offence, but the dealer is totally at fault here. I would name and shame if they didnt refund in full by close of business on Monday. They absolutely have'nt a leg to stand on.

Anan1

PoleStar wrote: »

You seem to be forgetting one thing, the dealer HAS misrepresented the situation to the OP.

The dealer HAS the OP's money.

The OP only has a verbal from the dealer that the finance will be paid off.

If the OP goes ahead with the purchase, should there be an issue with payment of the finance then it becomes the OP's problem.

If the OP goes for the dealers option and just waits for the finance to be paid, then if there is delay, during that time the dealer has the OP's hard earned cash.

Another option would be for the dealer to refund the finance owing to the OP, who could then settle directly with the finance company.

And lads, let's keep it civil. :-)

Traumadoc

I would be very upset if this happened to me and want my money back straight away.

Anan1

Traumadoc wrote: »

I would be very upset if this happened to me and want my money back straight away.

There seems to be an assumption here that the dealer was trying to defraud the OP. My experience of main dealers (from both sides of the fence) has been that, while often guilty of gross incompetence, they wouldn't generally be into selling on cars with outstanding finance. Unlike the guy selling cars out of the small ads, main dealers are simply too easy to sue.

daveharnett

Stupid behavior from the dealer IMO. If they puts his hands up, acknowledge their cock up, acknowledge that the is entitled to a refund, and politely asks the customer for a few days to put the situation right, then there's every chance that the OP sticks with them.

Their attitude has cost them any opportunity of ever seeing a cent from this customer now or in the future.

Bobo78

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

It sounds to me as if you dont know all of the facts involved here, and you are just spouting random sh1te.

Op, if the finance was going to be settled, why not offer to pick up the car at a later date, rather than pulling out of the sale? FWIW, I think the dealer is entitled to keep your deposit.

:rolleyes:

daveharnett

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

Op, if the finance was going to be settled, why not offer to pick up the car at a later date, rather than pulling out of the sale? FWIW, I think the dealer is entitled to keep your deposit.

If the finance was going to be settled, why not assure the OP that he can have his money back, then politely ask him to come back in a few days when it's sorted.

Given the dealer's intransigence in this matter, I'd be suspicious that the original seller is no longer in the country.

Traumadoc

Anan1 wrote: »

There seems to be an assumption here that the dealer was trying to defraud the OP. My experience of main dealers (from both sides of the fence) has been that, while often guilty of gross incompetence, they wouldn't generally be into selling on cars with outstanding finance. Unlike the guy selling cars out of the small ads, main dealers are simply too easy to sue.

I would feel very upset if this happened to me, If the dealer gave me back all the money without quibble, And it was sorted out , I would go back.
Otherwise it looks dodgy to say the least.

alias no.9

To be honest, this is something to check out before agreeing to buy but at the same time, the customer is entitled to a full refund in the circumstances. What dealer in their right mind takes in a car without making sure any outstanding finance was cleared.
U123, I would not bother to go the SIMI route, they are there to represent the industry, not the customer. Go straight to the small claims court, it will be quicker and easier.

Anan1

If the dealer sorts out the finance then why would the customer be entitled to cancel the contract without penalty?

Drummerboy08

Anan1 wrote: »

If the dealer sorts out the finance then why would the customer be entitled to cancel the contract without penalty?

Thats what I think.

Did the OP sign an order form? I think the order form says that the dealer is entitled to try to sort out the issue once before the customer is entitled to cancel the order at no cost.

If they sorted the finance issue and you were happy with the car why not go ahead with buying it ?

unit 1

Anan1 wrote: »

There seems to be an assumption here that the dealer was trying to defraud the OP. My experience of main dealers (from both sides of the fence) has been that, while often guilty of gross incompetence, they wouldn't generally be into selling on cars with outstanding finance. Unlike the guy selling cars out of the small ads, main dealers are simply too easy to sue.

Surely a main dealer has to be a competant person. The old chestnut of incompetence being no defence should apply here. All too often these days people are of the "highest regard" untill they make a mistake,(politicans anyone) then they trot out the usual "I did'nt know baloney". In all areas of life and business people doing a job or providing a service eg an electrician, a doctor, a printer, a lifeguard, should be competent. I'm pretty sure a main auto dealer falls into this category, so even if he did'nt know, he should have.

MagicMarker

OP, can you confirm if the finance was sorted later that day like the salesman said it would be? If so, I don't see the big deal tbh.

daveharnett

RoverJames wrote: »

If they sorted the finance issue and you were happy with the car why not go ahead with buying it ?

They promised over the phone to sort out the finance issue. That's very different to actually having the issue sorted.

What if for example the op took delivery of the car on monday (with the finance still outstanding, and a promise to get it sorted), and the dealer ceased trading on tuesday? Stranger things have happened in the last twelve months.

daveharnett

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

Did the OP sign an order form? I think the order form says that the dealer is entitled to try to sort out the issue once before the customer is entitled to cancel the order at no cost.

Worthless if consumer law says different.

Not to mention the fact that the order form was for the Brooklyn bridge - it belonged to the bank, not the dealer.

Nonoperational

To be honest if the finance was cleared and I was happy with the car I'd just take it.

mickdw

THe salesman passed the issue along to the manager (this could be viewed as attempting to sort the problem). The manager then states quite rudely that there was no finance on the car and just repeats this while making no reasonable comment. Nowhere does the OP state that the issue did get sorted. This is not the action of a business trying to put things right. This is the action of a business trying to get away with murder.
Surely its not too much to ask the dealer to get confirmation from finance house as to whether the debt has been cleared or not. The fact that they were unwilling to even have a rational conversation about it with a customer says it all really.

PoleStar

There is some hinting that if the dealer sorts out the finance later then it should be ok.

Maybe in a similar fashion, the OP should say to the dealer "tell you what, I will take the car now and sort out the balance owed later". Im sure the dealer would be perfectly happy with that verbal reassurance :rolleyes:

old_aussie

If the dodgy dealer has lied about this, one must ask "what else has he lied about?"

Get full refund, I don't think dodgy brothers can refuse a full refund.

Threaten to go to the local papers, the public embarrassment/exposure will be something a business doesn't want.

After this type of reply"I can assure you ther's no outstanding finance on this car", just shows how ignorant they are.
I would be out of there as fast as possible.

Fishtits

Anan1 wrote: »

If the dealer sorts out the finance then why would the customer be entitled to cancel the contract without penalty?

Anan, I think you're missing the point here.

The dealer in question offered a car for sale, hiding the fact that there were finance payments pending. this raises the issue of who actually owns the car? (i.e. the finance company?)

So the OP pays for the car - to the dealer - who doesn't own the car...

If the dealer fails to pay the finance company... the OP is high & dry.

The issue, in legal terms is who has title to the vehicle, it would seem that its the finance company.

Bottom line, IMHO, dealer is dodgy. The OP, as advised, is entitled to a complete refund of all monies paid.

There can be no defence for a dealer that tries this trick.

Stoolbend

Fishtits wrote: »

The dealer in question offered a car for sale, hiding the fact that there were finance payments pending..

Is it not possible that maybe the dealer hadn't got around to checking the car yet?

Can you not make a mistake anymore without everyone assuming that there was a hidden agenda!

RandomAccess

barry81 wrote: »

Is it not possible that maybe the dealer hadn't got around to checking the car yet?

Can you not make a mistake anymore without everyone assuming that there was a hidden agenda!

They shouldn't have bloody sold it then. Extreme incompetence (while not deliberate) does not qualify as a forgivable mistake in my book.
If you f*ck up like they did when selling a product, then be prepared to deal with the consequences which in this case are cold feet and pulling out of the sale. In this case I feel it is entirely warranted, and its not like this was a specially ordered new car so the dealer is NOT inconvenienced by this and has not lost cash on the transaction so they should man up and take responsibility for the cock-up. Peace of mind is an important part of buying a car, and in this case the OP felt this had been lost.