Plotting and intrigue by Noel Dempsey

mike65

Interesting stuff afoot this morning coming off the back of a claim made by Noel Dempsey against a member of the Fianna Fail executive Jerry Beades who issued a challange to Dempsey to apologise by 9 am. He hasn't and legal action is to follow by the sound of it. Beades will be issuing a statement later today. This conflict has its root in planning shennanigans back in the 90s.

thebman

What was the claim?

Heard mention of it on the radio but didn't get the full story.

Red_Marauder

Is this the first time somebody has used the term intrigue in association with Noel Dempsey?

gandalf

Oh this could get interesting.

Some details here.

Its not just Dempsey its concerning "five other members of the Cabinet to be sacked" as well.

mike65

Jerry Beades was accused of planning irregularities of which he was innocent, took years to clear his name. The Dublin Corpo appears to have been "clumsy" with vital paperwork Beades got damages from the Council, the head of which Owen Keegan had accused Beades of making up a false claim. Dempsey was the Environment minister at the time and knew of something dubious within the Corpo but failed to act.

gandalf

Beware the Ides of March!! As Caesar would say. Jaysus not even in March yet and the whole thing is starting to crumble. Summer Election on the cards?

Laminations

It is understood that at the meeting the Transport Minister hit back saying Mr Beades "should not have gone public".

FF mantra - keep schtum

translates as 'hide any wrongdoing from the public'

DrumSteve

heard this on newstalk this morning... they didnt really elaborate on it though. i think dempsey may have dropped the ball on this.

joolsveer

Will Dempsey be the next to resign?

DrumSteve

joolsveer wrote: »

Will Dempsey be the next to resign?

not a hope he has a neck like a jockeys arse he'll be there till the bitter end.

omahaid

Any idea what time this guy is making his statement?

mike65

I'd say the evening news shows from 4.30 on radio would be the place to check, this is the latest

http://breakingnews.iol.ie/news/ireland/beades-minister-failed-to-investigate-planning-irregularities-447867.html

gandalf

Well I guess thats Jerry off the Mount Street Gangs Christmas card list then

Very interesting this one, especially if he has documentation to back up his claims. It could put the pressure needed to tip the balance for the Greens to jump ship after all planning irregularities are supposed to be one of the core problems that they went into government to confront.

Laminations

Ah but sure if they jumped ship how could they possibly confront those problems? They are in government to see their policies implemented.....even if this short sightedness is at the cost of decimating the party out of existence

Liam Byrne

Laminations wrote: »

FF mantra - keep schtum

Can't help thinking that you have a misplaced "ht" in there, but hey....that's just a personal opinion!

Godge

Read the court case. Beades won his case as incompetence and bias among planning officials were exposed. How Dempsey could have been expected to know about such low-level malpractice, i don't know.

at the same time, the judge has some interesting stuff to say about Beades and his credibility.

I think DCC have some serious questions to answer but why does Noel Dempsey?

mike65

Aparently Dempsey was aware of missing paperwork/irregularities and choose not to intervene and so help Beades win his case a lot quicker.

imme

Why is Beades (a small builder) at this now. He was questioning the continuation of Dempsey in government the other day, as a member of the FF National Executive. Did he believe Dempsey was wrong 10-years ago. Did he give him ten-years to think about it?

Beades seems to have a history of requesting people be sacked/resign. He asked for the CE of ACC to be sacked by Rabobank after a case he had against them.

mike65

This all began with the meeting of the National Executive yesterday, Beades had spoken about the government needing a major kick up its backside with several ministers being replaced etc. This annoyed Dempsey who last night took the chance to pass remarks about Beales run-in with the Dublin City Council over planning. So it was the minister who actually kicked this mini drama off.

There is a subtext which is that Beades is a Bertie Man, one of the Drumcondra Mafia and some might reckon this is part of campaign to undermine the Cowen gubberment, quite why that would carry any weight is beyond me but FF is family of odd cliques.

You can listen to Beades on radio here

expectationlost

what beades problem with dempsey recent performance as minister for transport ( and D ahern in justice too)

Irlandese

imme wrote: »

Why is Beades (a small builder) at this now. He was questioning the continuation of Dempsey in government the other day, as a member of the FF National Executive. Did he believe Dempsey was wrong 10-years ago. Did he give him ten-years to think about it?

Beades seems to have a history of requesting people be sacked/resign. He asked for the CE of ACC to be sacked by Rabobank after a case he had against them.

You put your finger on it.
This is a contrived and very poor attempt to smear one of the most honest and moral politicians in the country. We have very few like Noel Dempsey. No, I am not a member of FF or politicaly active.I just happen to know a lot about young Noel and have been watching him closely enough for over thirty years. He has always confounded my view of politicians as essentially corruptable.
He is an abberation, a damned honest politician who actually cares about people, values and honesty in politics. Damn him, he makes me asjhamed to be a sceptic !

Irlandese

mike65 wrote: »

Aparently Dempsey was aware of missing paperwork/irregularities and choose not to intervene and so help Beades win his case a lot quicker.

"apparently " the minister was aware of the situation of a small builder?? Are we joking here or what?
I was a civil servant for years before retirement. Believe me, the minister was aware of bugger all, except what we decided to show him or her. Only the genetically stupid or those who desperately wish to be misled or downright partisans could accept this as anything other than badly served tripe !

Irlandese

mike65 wrote: »

This all began with the meeting of the National Executive yesterday, Beades had spoken about the government needing a major kick up its backside with several ministers being replaced etc. This annoyed Dempsey who last night took the chance to pass remarks about Beales run-in with the Dublin City Council over planning. So it was the minister who actually kicked this mini drama off.

There is a subtext which is that Beades is a Bertie Man, one of the Drumcondra Mafia and some might reckon this is part of campaign to undermine the Cowen gubberment, quite why that would carry any weight is beyond me but FF is family of odd cliques.

You can listen to Beades on radio here

Are you sure his name is not "Jeremy Beadle"?
Just joking. This is a very poor attempt at a set-up. Poor from the perspective of the lack of any calibre on the part of the "jerry builder" shooting off his mouth and poor from the perspective that this is an attack without foundation from a dodgy builder aggrieved because of a well justified court decision to curb his speculative activities.

Irlandese

mike65 wrote: »

This all began with the meeting of the National Executive yesterday, Beades had spoken about the government needing a major kick up its backside with several ministers being replaced etc. This annoyed Dempsey who last night took the chance to pass remarks about Beales run-in with the Dublin City Council over planning. So it was the minister who actually kicked this mini drama off.

There is a subtext which is that Beades is a Bertie Man, one of the Drumcondra Mafia and some might reckon this is part of campaign to undermine the Cowen gubberment, quite why that would carry any weight is beyond me but FF is family of odd cliques.

You can listen to Beades on radio here

By the way, thanks for the opportunity to listen to an almost carbon-copy of his controller's voice. I refer of course to the now well discredted "cowboy", Bertie Ahearne, ex-taoiseach but current dail pensioner, a-la-grande !

Irlandese

Godge wrote: »

Read the court case. Beades won his case as incompetence and bias among planning officials were exposed. How Dempsey could have been expected to know about such low-level malpractice, i don't know.

at the same time, the judge has some interesting stuff to say about Beades and his credibility.

I think DCC have some serious questions to answer but why does Noel Dempsey?

Well done, an honest and clear response to a direputable attempted slur on a damned fine politician and human being

expectationlost

so i remembered the reason why i think beades was annoyed with dempsey and called him failed( if was this old planning issue), it was becuase he went awol during the snow and transport crisis.

thats what the examiner suggested, its just its got lost with all this nonstory well done dempsey for expert distraction.

thebman

Irlandese wrote: »

No, I am not a member of FF or politicaly active.I just happen to know a lot about young Noel and have been watching him closely enough for over thirty years. He has always confounded my view of politicians as essentially corruptable.
He is an abberation, a damned honest politician who actually cares about people, values and honesty in politics. Damn him, he makes me asjhamed to be a sceptic !

Are you serious? Sounds like your president of his fanclub from this and your other posts below.

Noel Dempsey is far away from being the worst minister in the dail but he is not the greatest politician in the world either and achieved very little in his time in charge of the telecommunications in this country causing us to drop to the bottom of the EU league tables for speeds and quality of service and have one of the highest line rental rates in the world. All of this at a time when we supposedly had money and the state was posting large surplusses.

He has done other things that mean I have some respect for the man, more than the likes of O'Dea anyway.

paddyland

Irlandese wrote: »

Well done, an honest and clear response to a direputable attempted slur on a damned fine politician and human being

The taxi industry - a spectacular mess. Industry thrown open to new applicants, that's great, but as soon as dedicated new taxi drivers invest heavily in new cars, plates, licences, and sit psv tests, they then find themselves scuttled as a new breed of bargain basement taxi driver is admitted, who seem to pass no test of any description, have no idea where they are going, drive disgraceful cars, aim to no standards whatsoever, and quickly turn the already congested city streets into a teeming mass of yellow taxi lights. Genuine taxi drivers plead desperation to Dempsey, who routinely ignores them. Listening to their case would be an admission of failure, and FF don't admit mistakes. Ever.

Bus licensing - another fine mess. A litany of court cases, as every private operator in the country takes action one after another against each other and the state operators, and badly needed bus routes go to the wall. Nothing done under Dempsey's entire tenure, and Cullen's before him. Issue completely ignored. People travelling on buses are people not driving and paying tolls.

Irish Rail - underfunded, in favour of more toll roads instead. And who has Dempsey packed onto the boards of the toll road companies? People travelling on trains are people not driving and paying tolls.

Dublin Airport Authority - what is going on out in Dublin Airport? The place has been a building site for years now, with terminals being built at enormous cost, before being knocked down and replaced by more, at even more scandalous cost. Love or loathe Michael O'Leary, he raises some very pertinent issues. Dempsey ignores same issues.

For a minister for transport, Noel Dempsey seems to have spectacularly failed to deliver one positive initiative, other than a mealy mouthed press release last year that everyone should 'get on their bikes' more - Way to go Dempsey, positive PR spin, looks good, and costs FF nothing. Perhaps we can reclassify Dempsey as the minister for cheap, pointless, empty press releases. He seems good at that.

Can you please list for me, in order, all of the achievements of this 'damned fine politician and human being,' because I can find damned all, other than a trail of PR disasters, foot in mouth disease, and incompetence on a grand scale.

Riskymove

mike65 wrote: »

Aparently Dempsey was aware of missing paperwork/irregularities and choose not to intervene and so help Beades win his case a lot quicker.

Dempsey was Minister For the Environment at the time and would have been precluded by law from getting involved in planning issues

If he had intervened in a court case on planning issues, i think there would be a bigger issue for him now

murphaph

Irlandese wrote: »

Well done, an honest and clear response to a direputable attempted slur on a damned fine politician and human being

The same Noel Dempsey who ordered the M9 Kilcullen to Carlow scheme to remain closed until after xmas, after being lobbied by local business interests that their trade would suffer if the road (which was ready for business and had been signed off as safe, according to the NRA) was opened before xmas.

This came out and a U turn was made when members of the public began questioning it in the media. The N9 along here is one of the deadliest stretches of road in the country. Numerous people have lost their loves along it, yet this "honest politician" of yours wanted to keep it going over the xmas period (known to be even more dangerous for road traffic accidents) to keep a few mates happy. He's a disgrace for that alone, nevermind what else he got up to.

Irlandese

murphaph wrote: »

The same Noel Dempsey who ordered the M9 Kilcullen to Carlow scheme to remain closed until after xmas, after being lobbied by local business interests that their trade would suffer if the road (which was ready for business and had been signed off as safe, according to the NRA) was opened before xmas.

This came out and a U turn was made when members of the public began questioning it in the media. The N9 along here is one of the deadliest stretches of road in the country. Numerous people have lost their loves along it, yet this "honest politician" of yours wanted to keep it going over the xmas period (known to be even more dangerous for road traffic accidents) to keep a few mates happy. He's a disgrace for that alone, nevermind what else he got up to.

Civil servants are tied by tough confidentiality rules, so even if retired, I can give no specifics. Believe me if you like, but personal ethics push me to set the record straight, when it concerns on of the very few straight, clean and intelligent ministers we ever had. No, not a fan club member and not his personal acquaintance, but a fan nevertheless because a life spent serving the self-serving unscrupulous chancers that make up most of our politicians was very rarely made more bearable by having a decent, straight up guy come in once in a while and do it as it should be done.
The issues that impressed me and my colleagues also included taking difficult, honourable but personally politically risky stands, including against the big one, the church. Other politicians would ahve roilled over, as so many did before and after, but he didn't.
If he had been taoiseach for the past five years we would not be in the mess we are in now and a lot of dirty deals would never have happened.
There, thats all I can say. Put it in your pipe and smoke it if you like, but that rare breed, the good politician, deserves an honest press, not glib jibes.

murphaph

Irlandese wrote: »

Civil servants are tied by tough confidentiality rules, so even if retired, I can give no specifics. Believe me if you like, but personal ethics push me to set the record straight, when it concerns on of the very few straight, clean and intelligent ministers we ever had. No, not a fan club member and not his personal acquaintance, but a fan nevertheless because a life spent serving the self-serving unscrupulous chancers that make up most of our politicians was very rarely made more bearable by having a decent, straight up guy come in once in a while and do it as it should be done.
The issues that impressed me and my colleagues also included taking difficult, honourable but personally politically risky stands, including against the big one, the church. Other politicians would ahve roilled over, as so many did before and after, but he didn't.
If he had been taoiseach for the past five years we would not be in the mess we are in now and a lot of dirty deals would never have happened.
There, thats all I can say. Put it in your pipe and smoke it if you like, but that rare breed, the good politician, deserves an honest press, not glib jibes.

How closely did you work with Dempsey? For how many years? I find it hard to believe you could have worked with him for more than a couple of years as he was moved about (as all ministers are with reshuffles). You couldn't have known him from his council days I presume, yet your posts suggest that you have known him for years in a civil service capacity. Quite frankly, it doesn't stack up and you likely (unless you were secretary general of a department he ran) wouldn't have been privy to many of the matters he would hav had the final say on.

My comments weren't glib. This was all well publicised in the press and (in particular) on the radio. Go over to the Infrastructure M9 thread to see what Dempsey got up to just before xmas, ie, just a few weeks ago. He was willing to potentially sacrifice someone's life on one of Ireland's most dangerous roads, to keep a few publicans (FF members maybe??) in Castledermot happy, whilst keeping a multi million Euro piece of national infrastructure needlessly closed (and thus costing the wider economy an unknown sum per day in the process). Honest my @rse.

Irlandese

murphaph wrote: »

How closely did you work with Dempsey? For how many years? I find it hard to believe you could have worked with him for more than a couple of years as he was moved about (as all ministers are with reshuffles). You couldn't have known him from his council days I presume, yet your posts suggest that you have known him for years in a civil service capacity. Quite frankly, it doesn't stack up and you likely (unless you were secretary general of a department he ran) wouldn't have been privy to many of the matters he would hav had the final say on.

My comments weren't glib. This was all well publicised in the press and (in particular) on the radio. Go over to the Infrastructure M9 thread to see what Dempsey got up to just before xmas, ie, just a few weeks ago. He was willing to potentially sacrifice someone's life on one of Ireland's most dangerous roads, to keep a few publicans (FF members maybe??) in Castledermot happy, whilst keeping a multi million Euro piece of national infrastructure needlessly closed (and thus costing the wider economy an unknown sum per day in the process). Honest my @rse.

Cannot say really, without breaking the rules or revealing my own identity, which I will not for other good reasons. I can say you are on the right track, I didn't work directly to him and certainly didn't follow him across departments, but did have occasion to make representations, including to him directly, on one memorable issue, where he did the right things as described earlier. The other evidence was anecdotal. We were and are a gossiping cabal at the best of times.
Maybe you are right re the road stuff, but I would wonder who had the final say in the end if it really was as you describe, which might sound to some as conspiracy theory stuff? Ministers are not always the last arbiters even in their own ministry. Country politics are what they are.

paddyland

I beg to ask you again, what has Noel Dempsey done constructively throughout his tenure in the Department of Transport?

The taxis are a shambles. The buses are a shambles. The trains are a shambles. The airports are a shambles. He has done absolutely NOTHING constructive to deal with any of these fundamental issues. Any input he had, in particular with the taxis, was to make affairs ten times worse.

He has looked after one thing well, and that is the affairs of the toll companies, making sure they are covered from every angle no matter what direction the economy takes.

Minister for transport my ass. The man is a charlatan.

AlekSmart

By far and away the greatest of Mr Dempsey`s good works will turn out to be his affinity for the PPP,and most of all,the Toll Collection franchises,a process in which he has taken a keen interest.

I would be certainly happier if this outstanding and courageous Politician would simply make public the terms of the Toll Collection contract now in place for the M3 Motorway and those other PPP`s as yet to be implemented.

The construction of "Toll Booths" on this Motorway when the M50 has shown the absolute virtue of electronic collection remains another unanswered question...why ?....who does it benefit ?

Mr Dempsey`s major virtue,and one which rates VERY highly within the established Civil Service,is his appreciation of "discretion",or secrecy as the rest of the world calls it.

paddyland

AlekSmart wrote: »

The construction of "Toll Booths" on this Motorway when the M50 has shown the absolute virtue of electronic collection remains another unanswered question...why ?....who does it benefit ?

While in real revenue terms, it might make absolutely no difference, there is always something satisfying about the sound of hard, greasy cash clinking into the till, hard cash that you can pick up and look at and crinkle and feel.

Bertie understood that.

donkey balls

i work in the transport industry and last year the gardai,rsa and english authority vosa issued over 8000 fines to the haulage industry.
in any other country the operator would lose there licence and the company closed down, dempsey replied by saying to close a company down would breached their eu rights to earn a living so if i get into my car and drink drive and lose my licence could i get my licence back as it affects me in earning a living:rolleyes:i dont think so.
also we got eu money to build our road network yet every major road has a toll on it if you were to travel from cork to belfast you would have to go through four tolls and three from galway to dublin.then again dempsey uses the aircorp AW139 to get around so it doesent bother him.

wingsof daun

paddyland wrote: »

The taxi industry - a spectacular mess. Industry thrown open to new applicants, that's great, but as soon as dedicated new taxi drivers invest heavily in new cars, plates, licences, and sit psv tests, they then find themselves scuttled as a new breed of bargain basement taxi driver is admitted, who seem to pass no test of any description, have no idea where they are going, drive disgraceful cars, aim to no standards whatsoever, and quickly turn the already congested city streets into a teeming mass of yellow taxi lights. Genuine taxi drivers plead desperation to Dempsey, who routinely ignores them. Listening to their case would be an admission of failure, and FF don't admit mistakes. Ever.

Bus licensing - another fine mess. A litany of court cases, as every private operator in the country takes action one after another against each other and the state operators, and badly needed bus routes go to the wall. Nothing done under Dempsey's entire tenure, and Cullen's before him. Issue completely ignored. People travelling on buses are people not driving and paying tolls.

Irish Rail - underfunded, in favour of more toll roads instead. And who has Dempsey packed onto the boards of the toll road companies? People travelling on trains are people not driving and paying tolls.

Dublin Airport Authority - what is going on out in Dublin Airport? The place has been a building site for years now, with terminals being built at enormous cost, before being knocked down and replaced by more, at even more scandalous cost. Love or loathe Michael O'Leary, he raises some very pertinent issues. Dempsey ignores same issues.

For a minister for transport, Noel Dempsey seems to have spectacularly failed to deliver one positive initiative, other than a mealy mouthed press release last year that everyone should 'get on their bikes' more - Way to go Dempsey, positive PR spin, looks good, and costs FF nothing. Perhaps we can reclassify Dempsey as the minister for cheap, pointless, empty press releases. He seems good at that.

Can you please list for me, in order, all of the achievements of this 'damned fine politician and human being,' because I can find damned all, other than a trail of PR disasters, foot in mouth disease, and incompetence on a grand scale.

Excellent post here. Public services are a shambles. They want everybody paying at toll roads - it's a scam. It doesn't matter to them that it's unsustainable, that oil won't last and the pollution. The money is all that matters. Short term bull. Who will be travelling on those big roads in 50 years time?

AlekSmart

They want everybody paying at toll roads - it's a scam.

Well since Mr Dempsey is such a reputedly straight-up kinda guy,i`m sure he would not even think of reducing the amount and quality of PUBLIC Road Transport options merely to ensure the Toll Franchisee`s turned a buck ?

Poor or non existent Public Bus services along the Toll corridors ensures that those disaffected passengers WILL seek out the Bill; Cullens of the world and tool themselves up with a "Wee Car"...hey VAT,VRT Tolls,etc etc.....Whereas with a Taxsaver Ticket all the Bus user represents is a net Loss to Noel and his chums .... :rolleyes:

Perish the thought !

murphaph

wingsof daun wrote: »

Who will be travelling on those big roads in 50 years time?

Motorways won't be obsolete with the running out of oil

Cars will (have no fear, the technology largely exists already, much of it held by "big oil") run on alternative sources of fuel int the future, but they WILL run, and in greater and greater numbers.

Irlandese

wingsof daun wrote: »

Excellent post here. Public services are a shambles. They want everybody paying at toll roads - it's a scam. It doesn't matter to them that it's unsustainable, that oil won't last and the pollution. The money is all that matters. Short term bull. Who will be travelling on those big roads in 50 years time?

Look, I said my bit and stand over every post. I am sure it is good fun to gripe and I do it myself, but, as I said, I feel I owe it to the one honest politico I knew in my time to set the record straight.

Laminations

Irlandese wrote: »

Look, I said my bit and stand over every post. I am sure it is good fun to gripe and I do it myself, but, as I said, I feel I owe it to the one honest politico I knew in my time to set the record straight.

So go ahead, set the record straight.

paddyland wrote: »

Can you please list for me, in order, all of the achievements of this 'damned fine politician and human being,' because I can find damned all, other than a trail of PR disasters, foot in mouth disease, and incompetence on a grand scale.

Get listing.

sceptre

OK, folks, I've just dumped eleven off-topic posts and edited a further two half on and half off-topic posts that for some reason decided to talk about Ryanair's handling of its passengers. And a chunk of one post that went on about taxi drivers, also for no apparent reason.

In case some of you chaps haven't noticed, this thread is about the call for Noel Dempsey (as mentioned in the thread title) and other cabinet ministers to resign or be sacked, made by FF National Executive member Jerry Beades.

Go talk about Ryanair and other off topic things elsewhere please:)

Complaints re the above to me by PM.

/mod