Prime Time on Unemployment in young males

Maebh

Apart from them finding three young men who did not inspire in me much sympathy, for their attitudes were of hopelessness (but can you blame them?), what did ye think of the interview with Mary Coughlan? I don't usually like Donagh Diamond very much but I have to say he said some things which I put to Dara Calleary (Coughlan's assistant, in essence) and pointed out when wee Mary from Donegal didn't answer the question.

I really hate the attitude towards young people from our current government atm. They seem to feel it's not their problem, or their doing, and that no extra resources should go towards actually resolving the problem. I foresee more cuts to their services, and the lack of tangible efforts in terms of training or work placement is appalling...

I leave it up to you, boardsies, to debate. Do you think the government is doing enough for these young people? Do you think their current efforts to educate the populace, or take advantage of the potential of those of us who are educated and experienced, are enough to stem the flow of emigration? And what do you think they should be doing?

number10a

The government are cutting back on the young because they know that they will emigrate. Their mentality is a simple "Give them less and they will leave". It's their way of saving face by keeping the dole queues under the half million mark.

sparkling sea

Also if they are not here they can't vote against FF

Valmont

Maebh wrote: »

I leave it up to you, boardsies, to debate. Do you think the government is doing enough for these young people?

I would prefer to phrase the question this way:

Do you think these young people are doing enough for themselves? Or are they over-reliant on the state?

djpbarry

Valmont wrote: »

I would prefer to phrase the question this way:

Do you think these young people are doing enough for themselves? Or are they over-reliant on the state?

And/or their parents.

Zambia

Maebh wrote: »

enough to stem the flow of emigration?

Where are all the Irish young migrating to?

I see no evidence of a huge surge in migration just because the young would like to leave Ireland it does not mean they get to do so?

thebman

Valmont wrote: »

I would prefer to phrase the question this way:

Do you think these young people are doing enough for themselves? Or are they over-reliant on the state?

Like start their own business. Need money to do that and banks aren't lending irresponsibly to startups anymore and investors want all the work done until it is almost a sure thing before they'll invest.

So where does the initial money come from? The dole?

FlutterinBantam

Following years of the Celtic Tiger, a large section of todays young people are very poorly prepared for a more competitive environment.

The people who are suffering most now are those who took the 'easy option' in the boom years, left school early and bought the 4X4 and became 'builders'

The wise ones continued their education while watching those who left, rolling in money but they are far more prepared now.

Todays young people got too caught up in the instant system, where a credit card gets you everything instantly, and nothing but the very best and latest would do.

Sadly today's youth thought that the gravy train would never end,it did, and
they are struggling to cope with what a lot of us have gone through before.

Not me personally but I remember my parents in the 80s worrying about huge mortgage rates and similar lack of jobs.

Laminations

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Following years of the Celtic Tiger, a large section of todays young people are very poorly prepared for a more competitive environment.

Whose fault is that? surely not the yoing peoples? were we not the ones to prepare them? does/did the government have a role in preparing them?

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Sadly today's youth thought that the gravy train would never end

What made them think that? hmmmm maybe they believed what the government were telling them, rookie mistake I know but being young people I quess they qualify as rookies.

Valmont wrote: »

Do you think these young people are doing enough for themselves? Or are they over-reliant on the state?

Ok suggest some things they could be doing. Isn't that the way this game works? knock the people complaining and tell them to have 'ideas'?

ei.sdraob

thebman wrote: »

Like start their own business. Need money to do that and banks aren't lending irresponsibly to startups anymore and investors want all the work done until it is almost a sure thing before they'll invest.

So where does the initial money come from? The dole?

will you stop with that myth will ya :rolleyes:

I started of a business on shoestring budget and very small savings, my near min wage at the time was no better than the dole

the trick is to grow it slowly

also yes the banks are offering credit to startups and business, i keep turning down offers still

they are not offering loans to anything related to construction of course


there are many business ideas that can be started on very small budgets nowadays, only if people stopped ****ing moaning and do something

ei.sdraob

to continue on from previous post (yes im fairly ticked off)

about the whole "theres no credit so noone can start a business" crap

one of my relations started up a very small shop with money he was making delivering pizzas and Chinese food (yes a job that alot of people would consider below them),
he never went to the bank for credit,
~8 years later of working extremely hard, he has a medium supermarket and a bakery employing 16-20 people and rising


you know whats missing from some people in this country (as also demonstrated on recent frontline)?


it aint bank credit, its FLIPPING DRIVE AND AMBITION to be enterprising

:mad:

dvpower

ei.sdraob wrote: »

you know whats missing from some people in this country (as also demonstrated on recent frontline)?

I didn't see Prime Time but I did see that Frontline.

I wouldn't normally be the greatest fan of Bill Cullen, but the amount of whinging out of the people in the audience was incredible, and Bill wasn't shy in pointing it out to them.

The only thing I can say in their defence is that this recession came upon us very quickly and, for most young people who grew up in boom times, very unexpectedly, so its natural that their expectations were high.

number10a wrote: »

The government are cutting back on the young because they know that they will emigrate. Their mentality is a simple "Give them less and they will leave". It's their way of saving face by keeping the dole queues under the half million mark.

Temporary emigration isn't necessarily a bad idea. This recession isn't going to end anytime soon and a recovery in the dole queues will lag behind a recovery in the economy. What's the point in sitting around here wasting away?

There was a program on the BBC last week with Evan Davis, looking at how the influx of eastern european immigrants into British market towns was pushing young British people onto the dole queues. There was one guy who had been on the dole for a few years, complaining that there were no jobs available for unskilled workers. At the same time there were thousands of eastern Europeans working in local farms and factories. The penny didn't drop.

Laminations

ei.sdraob wrote: »

to continue on from previous post (yes im fairly ticked off)

about the whole "theres no credit so noone can start a business" crap

one of my relations started up a very small shop with money he was making delivering pizzas and Chinese food (yes a job that alot of people would consider below them),
he never went to the bank for credit,
~8 years later of working extremely hard, he has a medium supermarket and a bakery employing 16-20 people and rising


you know whats missing from some people in this country (as also demonstrated on recent frontline)?


it aint bank credit, its FLIPPING DRIVE AND AMBITION to be enterprising

:mad:

Get off the high horse. You did it so everyone can do it? We dont have 400 thousand entrepreneurs in this country let alone 400 thousand entrepreneurial ideas. Its nonsense to think the unemployment problems can be solve with 'get up and go'. Yes it may help a few people who have that drive but you cant merely tell people to go be entrepreneurs. Just because you did it.... Lets solve crime that way. I dont involve myself in crime, why cant everyone just do that? Ridiculous.

irishh_bob

considering how disproportionate a percentage of men were employed in the construction sector in some shape or form , clearly , things are not going to improove for thousands of theese people anytime soon unless they either emmigate or re - skill , thier are thousands of carpenters and brickies who will never work in thier original chosen field again , of that thier is no doubt

ei.sdraob

Laminations wrote: »

Get off the high horse. You did it so everyone can do it? We dont have 400 thousand entrepreneurs in this country let alone 400 thousand entrepreneurial ideas. Its nonsense to think the unemployment problems can be solve with 'get up and go'. Yes it may help a few people who have that drive but you cant merely tell people to go be entrepreneurs. Just because you did it.... Lets solve crime that way. I dont involve myself in crime, why cant everyone just do that? Ridiculous.

did i say thats THE solution? :rolleyes: i was talking about flipping reliance on bank credit for startups, way to go offtopic there

of course this is not a solution for 400,000 people its one of many solutions, if a small fraction of the people we seen in the audience the other day on frontline get of their high horses and realize that the government is utterly incapable of "creating" jobs (or holding them for that matter) they might get somewhere in life, sitting on your balls expecting FF or the Greens or the opposition to do anything right would not accomplish much

i outlined how me and people i know have worked very hard and took risks and didnt not rely on credit to get businesses going

of course its not a solution for everyone, but even if 1% do change their outlook on life and employment, in the long term they be benefiting themselves

SteeveSmith

probably a biased view of things but this is my experience

im currently working full time in order to pay for uni which im hoping to go to in september
ive been working full time for 3 years now saving every penny i can and its still going to be very very very tight.

i can really see the lure of dropping it all and going on the dole. i wont be getting any grants and my parents cant spare any cash.

im inbetween the people who get the grant and the people whos parents can pay their childs way. again, might be biased, but i think its the worst place to be. even a couple grand from the government would be a huge huge help. but im getting nothing.

dvpower

SteeveSmith wrote: »

probably a biased view of things but this is my experience

im currently working full time in order to pay for uni which im hoping to go to in september
ive been working full time for 3 years now saving every penny i can and its still going to be very very very tight.

i can really see the lure of dropping it all and going on the dole. i wont be getting any grants and my parents cant spare any cash.

im inbetween the people who get the grant and the people whos parents can pay their childs way. again, might be biased, but i think its the worst place to be. even a couple grand from the government would be a huge huge help. but im getting nothing.

... except for a free university education?

Nehaxak

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

The wise ones continued their education while watching those who left, rolling in money but they are far more prepared now.

Please explain because far as I can tell, the vast majority of those that are emigrating are very well educated and just don't or cannot get jobs in the specific fields for which they educated themselves in - or indeed as the case more likely is, their are no jobs for them at all as they've spent so much time in college that they have little or no actual work experience behind them.

They're also emigrating with little or nothing in their pockets to tide them over while they search out opportunities abroad.

They are far from being more prepared than anyone else. They're all in the same boat and probably worse off than others who might have a bit of savings and experience behind them not to mention the fact that after all the years they've spent educating themselves, probably bolstered by years of grants et all from the state, that we're now content as a country to tell them to piss off and put their education to use in another country rather than their own.

SteeveSmith

dvpower wrote: »

... except for a free university education?

im going to be paying fees of 7000 euro a year

ei.sdraob

SteeveSmith wrote: »

im going to be paying fees of 7000 euro a year

your getting a good deal

its twice that in UK and quite a bit more in US per year

Tiddlers

SteeveSmith wrote: »

i can really see the lure of dropping it all and going on the dole.

Don't.

College may be a struggle financially but life in general will be too if you're on the dole.At least in college you're gaining an education and a qualification and vast amounts of experience and knowledge that will benefit you in the future,

Anyway, it's always possible that after college you'll be on the dole anyway.I know I am and a lot of my graduating class and other friends I have with degrees and even masters.It's not just males or builders etc who are signing on.Yes,the may make up the majority but at least they are getting exposure. The danger could be that minorities, like young women, will be left behind and disenfranchised.

Laminations

dvpower wrote: »

... except for a free university education?

Yeah to apply in another country and not benefit the tax payers who are 'investing' in him, you know 'for the future'.

ednwireland

dvpower wrote: »

There was a program on the BBC last week with Evan Davis, looking at how the influx of eastern european immigrants into British market towns was pushing young British people onto the dole queues. There was one guy who had been on the dole for a few years, complaining that there were no jobs available for unskilled workers. At the same time there were thousands of eastern Europeans working in local farms and factories. The penny didn't drop.

there was a primetime on a few months ago about you guys who had moved to london, one had been laid off and was complaining the only jobs were ones that only the polish would do, dont think he'll last too long on british dole

Tiddlers

Nehaxak wrote: »

Please explain because far as I can tell, the vast majority of those that are emigrating are very well educated and just don't or cannot get jobs in the specific fields for which they educated themselves in - or indeed as the case more likely is, their are no jobs for them at all as they've spent so much time in college that they have little or no actual work experience behind them.

They're also emigrating with little or nothing in their pockets to tide them over while they search out opportunities abroad.

They are far from being more prepared than anyone else. They're all in the same boat and probably worse off than others who might have a bit of savings and experience behind them not to mention the fact that after all the years they've spent educating themselves, probably bolstered by years of grants et all from the state, that we're now content as a country to tell them to piss off and put their education to use in another country rather than their own.

This is all so true.And the very last line you write is something which has been bothering. The government and the country invested so much in the educationof it's young people but still people come along and tell them to emigrate in order to get off the dole queue and find work. The way Bill Cullen spoke about it on Frontline on Monday angered me hugely.He spoke about it like it's a simple black and white issue when it's not.Is Ireland just going to produce and educate a work force for other countries who actually have a plan for what they are going to do with graduates? Where's the pay-off or reward in that for Ireland and its people?

Shea O'Meara

ei.sdraob wrote: »

your getting a good deal

its twice that in UK and quite a bit more in US per year

I suppose he can go out and grow his own food and get an aul' type writer out of a second hand shop and type up his text books on the back of discarded cornflake boxes. Sure he's on the pig's back, doesn't know he's born:rolleyes:


Emigration is all well and good, if you want to. I can't think of anything much worse than being forced to leave your country because the government think of it as a reasonable back up plan. They've always fallen on youth emigration during recessions. Cheap and lousy solution for them.
It's sold as an adventure, they'll have a great time and learn alot. It's possible, (as much as ending up begging) but it should be a choice in this day and age. You would think we'd learned something since the 1950's.

By the way, Bill Cullen is full of it. I respect what he's done for himself, but he's no guru on how society should pull up it's boot straps. He can walk to school in the snow in his barefeet all he wants, (or whatever) but his atitude is if you're not successful like him, it's because you're lazy. He reminds me of an ex-smoker in that he's from a poor background, he's wealthy now, it's easy to get ahead, all you need do is want to.

ei.sdraob

Shea O'Meara wrote: »

I suppose he can go out and grow his own food and get an aul' type writer out of a second hand shop and type up his text books on the back of discarded cornflake boxes. Sure he's on the pig's back, doesn't know he's born:rolleyes:

just pointing out that hes lucky it doesn't cost as as much as our neighbours, people in these countries get into serious debts just to get an education

but of course he can always go on the dole, it seems that in the long term a degree in government artistry is more useful :rolleyes:

Laminations

ei.sdraob wrote: »

if a small fraction of the people we seen in the audience the other day on frontline get of their high horses and realize that the government is utterly incapable of "creating" jobs (or holding them for that matter) they might get somewhere in life, sitting on your balls expecting FF or the Greens or the opposition to do anything right would not accomplish much

Ah yes, the 'they're all the same' argument.

http://www.finegael.org/news/a/1776/article/

Look at the powerpoint presentation, there is an opposition that highlights a better and fairer way and recognises the need for job creation

I'd like to think I'm speaking for other 'young' people when I say we want an election

ei.sdraob

Laminations wrote: »

Ah yes, the 'they're all the same' argument.

http://www.finegael.org/news/a/1776/article/

Look at the powerpoint presentation, there is an opposition that highlights a better and fairer way and recognises the need for job creation

I'd like to think I'm speaking for other 'young' people when I say we want an election

its ok i want an election too

but neither FG or Labour (whom i voted for in past) are inspiring any confidence at the moment (very disappointed with FG after last frontline episode) for a wide range of reasons

it seems we'll just replace on bunch of incompetent fools for another (as has happened in US last year unfortunately)

once again your falling for the line of thinking that its the govenrments job to create employment, im afraid you and others will be waiting a long time

/

Maebh

Here's the thing - we're supposed to move forward, not backwards, and the over-reliance on emigration which the government has at the moment simply shouldn't be allowed. We're not living in the eighties, or the fifties. There is no famine. We have potential, we're just letting it get on Ryanair flights and kiss goodbye to this little island.

Also, not everyone will want to start a business. A lot of people simply aren't cut out for it.
However, I think that while being a start-up is hard, yes it can be done while on the dole. The ADULT rate, which young people don't get.

The 18-21 year old rate is currently 135 euro UNDER the poverty line. The 21-23 rate is 85 UNDER it. They have the same costs as any other SINGLE adult living away from their parents. Yet they are told "save up, don't borrow, don't expect a job to come any time soon, or feck off".

How, I ask you, is someone supposed to save for any of these things?

And then there's the "courses" which are "offered". Has anyone heard of a thing that's happening whereby people get offered a course they don't need or have any use for, often many miles away, and they have no transport? D'you know what happens then? You lose 50 quid. Hardly fair, now, is it?

You can sit on your high horses, scornfully surveying the "lazy" people underneath you, you can berate graduates for wanting some compensation and appreciation for their effort (because "free education" still costs time, money and brains), you can say we should shut up and put up, or you could have a little solidarity and empathy....

Shea O'Meara

Seriously, I'm at a loss with the whole accountability thing of late.
It seems the government have no job themselves. The economy isn't their fault, coulda happened to anyone. It's not their responsibility to supply jobs/bolster the workforce. Sounds like a great job indeed, get paid do nothing and if you screw up simply shrug your shoulders. Are politicians these dole spongers I keep hearing about? They seem to fit the bill anyway. We must remember there is a big difference between 'don't have to' and 'simply can't because they are F***wits.'

Maebh

ei.sdraob wrote: »

once again your [sic] falling for the line of thinking that its [sic] the govenrments [sic] job to create employment, im [sic] afraid you and others will be waiting a long time[sic]

/

Many countries have resorted in times of recession to providing jobs. It gets infrastructure, more education, armies and innovation going. Then, when there're better roads and telecommunications services, when there are highly skilled and educated people everywhere, other companies come in and set up businesses which in turn create more revenue.

There's nothing wrong with a sanely-executed stimulus plan. It just wasn't always called stimulus.

Shea O'Meara

Maebh wrote: »

And then there's the "courses" which are "offered". Has anyone heard of a thing that's happening whereby people get offered a course they don't need or have any use for, often many miles away, and they have no transport? D'you know what happens then? You lose 50 quid. Hardly fair, now, is it?

I believe it's a cooking course, for cooking the books on the unemployment figures.

FlutterinBantam

Quite frankly Shea that kind of attitude will get you nowhere

Maebh

Shea O'Meara wrote: »

I believe it's a cooking course, for cooking the books on the unemployment figures.

Yup yup, there's a lot of people who don't "count" on the LR. They include people on CE schemes, people working two or so days a week, seasonal workers, for whom the figures are "adjusted" as well as anyone on a course. These people are all at least partially unemployed, yet they don't figure at all on the government's balance sheets.

ei.sdraob

Maebh wrote: »

Many countries have resorted in times of recession to providing jobs. It gets infrastructure, more education, armies and innovation going. Then, when there're better roads and telecommunications services, when there are highly skilled and educated people everywhere, other companies come in and set up businesses which in turn create more revenue.

There's nothing wrong with a sanely-executed stimulus plan. It just wasn't always called stimulus.

no there's nothing wrong with a stimulus

but of course we didn't put a side any money during the boom

so now we don't have anything to fund a stimulus with bar high interest external debt




its very simple lets say we go and borrow 20 billion for a stimulus, that'll cost NTMA lets say 5% on a 10 year bond

if all that money goes into a stimulus we would need it to comeout the other side in 10 years time plus interest just to repay the initial loan

i argued in another thread against NAMA and bailouts , all of that money could have been used on "stimulus" but instead was poured into banking black holes, so there you go

dvpower

Maebh wrote: »

You can sit on your high horses, scornfully surveying the "lazy" people underneath you, you can berate graduates for wanting some compensation and appreciation for their effort (because "free education" still costs time, money and brains), you can say we should shut up and put up, or you could have a little solidarity and empathy....

We are supporting graduates by paying for the education that they got and you want further 'compensation and appreciation'? I have no empathy whatsoever for that point of view.

Laminations

ei.sdraob wrote: »

no there's nothing wrong with a stimulus

but of course we didn't put a side any money during the boom

so now we don't have anything to fund a stimulus with bar high interest external debt




its very simple lets say we go and borrow 20 billion for a stimulus, that'll cost NTMA lets say 5% on a 10 year bond

if all that money goes into a stimulus we would need it to comeout the other side in 10 years time plus interest just to repay the initial loan

i argued in another thread against NAMA and bailouts , all of that money could have been used on "stimulus" but instead was poured into banking black holes, so there you go

Whats this we pale face?

You are right, McCreevys motto was, 'when I have it I spend it and when I don't I dont'.

So you do realise why people are irrate at the way the government has run this country? People are unwilling to just say 'so there you go'

ei.sdraob

Laminations wrote: »

Whats this we pale face?

You are right, McCreevys motto was, 'when I have it I spend it and when I don't I dont'.

So you do realise why people are irrate at the way the government has run this country? People are unwilling to just say 'so there you go'

you speak as if im happy with the current lot and rather they stay in power

of course not

my main worry is that an election wont solve our issues, since the alternative parties have no shortage of own issues

its really a case of choosing the least worst from a bad bunch

seamus

Maebh wrote: »

The 18-21 year old rate is currently 135 euro UNDER the poverty line. The 21-23 rate is 85 UNDER it. They have the same costs as any other SINGLE adult living away from their parents. Yet they are told "save up, don't borrow, don't expect a job to come any time soon, or feck off".

Where did you get this arbitrary figure of €235 as a definition of the "poverty line"?

An 18-21 year old living outside of the family home and with no other means of support has a whole range of benefit options open to them. €100 is the bare minimum they'll receive. In reality, they can get a lot more.

you can berate graduates for wanting some compensation and appreciation for their effort (because "free education" still costs time, money and brains)

Why do graduates deserve compensation and appreciation for getting a qualification? Your education *is* your compensation - for your sacrifices of studying, you have gained an education. That's your reward.

Tiddlers

seamus wrote: »

Why do graduates deserve compensation and appreciation for getting a qualification? Your education *is* your compensation - for your sacrifices of studying, you have gained an education. That's your reward.

There are a lot of people who don't view education as a reward but a right, especially in a first world country.

Laminations

ei.sdraob wrote: »

its really a case of choosing the least worst from a bad bunch

Yes, an unpallatable situation to be in but we still must make the most logical choice. And for all the opposition faults, they at least have ideas on government reform, health reform, tax reform, they are not tired and complacent...at least not to the same extent as FF

ei.sdraob

Tiddlers wrote: »

There are a lot of people who don't view education as a reward but a right, especially in a first world country.

the faster people realize that we are not "first world" and are alot poorer than we were told the better

the countries that do have free tertiary education (there aint many of these now) are quite a bit better managed than Ireland

Laminations wrote: »

Yes, an unpallatable situation to be in but we still must make the most logical choice. And for all the opposition faults, they at least have ideas on government reform, health reform, tax reform, they are not tired and complacent...at least not to the same extent as FF

of course i agree

but do remember that our friends in US were promised "change" too, a year later it hasn't materialized

same would happen here im afraid

SteeveSmith

ei.sdraob wrote: »

your getting a good deal

its twice that in UK and quite a bit more in US per year

oh dont get me wrong i realise that.

I'm not saying i won't go to uni my post was just trying to show how me as a young male sees things.

my social life has been reigned in because of my saving. i see the temptation when on a saturday night while i work there are people my age going out on the piss with their dole money. I really cant hold anything against them because if i could i would do the same thing.

i dont think the problem lies in the dole. i know if i was on the dole the chances id ever have enough saved to go to uni is slim to none. but that just means that if people on the dole WANT to get an education then it will take a lot longer. especially now that theyve changed the way BTEA works.
not sure on the specifics of it.

Sure, the government doesnt do any great favours for young people but they dont really do any great favours for anyone do they?
whats the difference between my situation and that of a 40 year old who would just love to get a degree but cant afford it. its the same as anybody. if you get stuck in and do what needs doing then it'll happen.
not in a year or two years.

i'm 20 now and i've given myself until 30 to have what i want education wise. in a perfect world where the government helps you out in everything, then id be halfway done already. it would be of benefit to them to get us educated as soon as possible.

on an unrelated note; ive recently read that the county council is spending 1.5million redecorating a beach here.....things like that DO anger me. 1.5million could be used so much more productively. but thats not the issue here.

Laminations

seamus wrote: »

Why do graduates deserve compensation and appreciation for getting a qualification? Your education *is* your compensation - for your sacrifices of studying, you have gained an education. That's your reward.

An unapplied/unused education is as much use as a limp d***
A job matching their qualifications is both their 'compensation' for the time they have invested and our 'compensation' for the money we as taxpayers have invested

seamus

Tiddlers wrote: »

There are a lot of people who don't view education as a reward but a right, especially in a first world country.

It is a right, absolutely. You have the right to pursue whatever education you want. But it's your choice. You spend X years of your life studying and working at the subject and at the end of it, your reward is the knowledge you now have in your head.

You get paid for making a contribution through your work. Education is preparation for making those contributions, it's not a contribution in itself.

Laminations

ei.sdraob wrote: »

but do remember that our friends in US were promised "change" too, a year later it hasn't materialized

same would happen here im afraid

Change takes time, you'll only find disappointment with unrealistic expectations. And as for the US, I think Obama had a pretty good first year and that americans are far better off under him than Bush, even if he were to just sit twiddling his thumbs in the White House

Good debate on Obamas first year here

And here is a list of his achievements

ei.sdraob

SteeveSmith wrote: »

oh dont get me wrong i realise that.

I'm not saying i won't go to uni my post was just trying to show how me as a young male sees things.

my social life has been reigned in because of my saving. i see the temptation when on a saturday night while i work there are people my age going out on the piss with their dole money. I really cant hold anything against them because if i could i would do the same thing.

i dont think the problem lies in the dole. i know if i was on the dole the chances id ever have enough saved to go to uni is slim to none. but that just means that if people on the dole WANT to get an education then it will take a lot longer. especially now that theyve changed the way BTEA works.
not sure on the specifics of it.

Sure, the government doesnt do any great favours for young people but they dont really do any great favours for anyone do they?
whats the difference between my situation and that of a 40 year old who would just love to get a degree but cant afford it. its the same as anybody. if you get stuck in and do what needs doing then it'll happen.
not in a year or two years.

i'm 20 now and i've given myself until 30 to have what i want education wise. in a perfect world where the government helps you out in everything, then id be halfway done already. it would be of benefit to them to get us educated as soon as possible.

on an unrelated note; ive recently read that the county council is spending 1.5million redecorating a beach here.....things like that DO anger me. 1.5million could be used so much more productively. but thats not the issue here.

go get some education one should never stop learning , dont fall for the temptation and end-up in a a trap,
I know exactly what you mean it might seem unfair now, but in the long term you will be be better of than those people who are "floating" by

by time you graduate we hopefully be out of the deepest of the recession and depending on what you go into even get a job

now enough of the optimism, lets get back to pessimism and govt bashing

thebman

ei.sdraob wrote: »

will you stop with that myth will ya :rolleyes:

I started of a business on shoestring budget and very small savings, my near min wage at the time was no better than the dole

the trick is to grow it slowly

You can't start all businesses without significant startup capital.

also yes the banks are offering credit to startups and business, i keep turning down offers still

You have a credit rating, a student out of college will not have this or at least not a favorable one most likely.

there are many business ideas that can be started on very small budgets nowadays, only if people stopped ****ing moaning and do something

I'm sure there are but there are a number of reasons why this won't work for many people and we are talking about many people not a few individuals who I'm sure will do what you say regardless of anyone telling them it can't be done.

ei.sdraob

thebman wrote: »

You can't start all businesses without significant startup capital.

of course

but saying that no business can be started without credit is also wrong

btw credit is there, its just being given out left and right anymore, as should always be the case

ekwi

Valmont wrote: »

I would prefer to phrase the question this way:

Do you think these young people are doing enough for themselves? Or are they over-reliant on the state?

I have looked through the varying responses to the Primetime thread and I'm pretty appalled at the self-righteous quote-makers. I am a female under-30, who 'migrated' for close to a year in 2009 having been made redundant from a well paid media production job in late 2008.
Last year I worked in an almost voluntary capacity in a totally unrelated area because Ireland, the views of its government and lucky to still be employed population were quite literally doing my head in, ie. that the unemployed are happy to be relying on the state and not making any effort to do otherwise.
Regarding starting your own business, I think you are having a laugh, I have worked in a business/entrepreneurial publication and my research of funding through Enterprise Ireland, venture capital revealed that these pathways are quite unattainable in the current economic climate unless you're setting up some sort of 'green-shirt' business. Small businesses are struggling in our rural towns at present and the government aren't lifting a finger to rescue them.
I ask all of you to re-think your comments regarding the unemployed in this country, the uneducated bricklayers do not paint a realistic picture. I am shortly migrating again after spending the last couple of months applying for jobs to no-avail. This country is in a sorry state and the government are smiling at the prospect of a few thousand under 30's leaving their shores.
Regarding Coughlan on Primetime she looked very uncomfortable and has that fear of a re-shuffle look about her lumpy Donegal visage.

Mr.Micro

ekwi wrote: »

Regarding Coughlan on Primetime she looked very uncomfortable and has that fear of a re-shuffle look about her lumpy Donegal visage.

A very good description indeed. I do not think that Cowen has the bottle to have a proper reshuffle but if one Minister should go it has to be lumpy Coughlan. An absolute disgrace and comes across as thick and ignorant. No fear of her though, its all the unfortunate unemployed people who bear the brunt of the complete mismanagement of our economy by the likes of lumpy and Cowen.