Patrick Stewart speaks about domestic voilence for Amnesty International.

Nevyn

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xi_27bpIb30

I found this hard to watch and a horrible wonderful insight into the effect that domestic abuse has on children, esp boys when it comes to impacting on thier role model and template for adult relationships.

It also points at how far we have some in saying that domestic violence is not acceptable and that has taken men to say to other men that it is not acceptable, so to all of you who do think that domestic violence is never acceptable and who voice that opinion, thank you.

CDfm

Its always important that Domestic Violence gets acknowledged whoever the victims are.

Haven't Amnesty International been criticized in the past as they only preach that guys abuse and women and children are the victims. The other thing is that Amnesty International deal with war zones and that you also get male civilian victims in warzones. A bomb or a bullet does not pick genders.

I think it could be an idea to have a Domestic Violence thread where posters experienced or witnessed domestic violence as children or whatever and where the mods were ready for anonymous posting and see where it goes. More like a victim/witness rather than an interest group or volunteer thing.

It would be good to see something other than soapboxing..

Nevyn

CDfm if you can find a clip about a man being brave enough to speak about Domestic Voilence from the point of view of being the direct victim I'd love to see that posted as well.

I just found this clip very moving and want to share it.

PopUp

Jean Luc Picard ftw.

He also wrote this very moving article a while ago.

It is great to see a man speaking out about this.

CDfm

I agree its great to see a guy talking about it.

The American Icon John Wayne said "I deeply regret that I'll hafta sling mud." and that was his comment on the abuse he recieved at the hands of his 2nd wife Chata and he was the stereotypical he man.

I dont think guys come forward - the actors who played the Mitchell Brothers were on the recieving end but did not prosecute.

It would be cool if you could post some details of where guys should go if they are abusing their partner.

Giselle

CDfm wrote: »

I dont think guys come forward - the actors who played the Mitchell Brothers were on the recieving end but did not prosecute.

.

The actors who played the Mitchell brothers alleged they were on the receiving end, but since they didn't proscecute their abuse is not proven.

You can't assume guilt, thats why the courts are there and its unfair to the accused, as the victims of false rape accusations etc will tell you.

Gender shouldn't make a difference there either.

Boston

Thank you Thaedydal.

CDfm wrote: »

Its always important that Domestic Violence gets acknowledged whoever the victims are.

Haven't Amnesty International been criticized in the past as they only preach that guys abuse and women and children are the victims. The other thing is that Amnesty International deal with war zones and that you also get male civilian victims in warzones. A bomb or a bullet does not pick genders.

I think it could be an idea to have a Domestic Violence thread where posters experienced or witnessed domestic violence as children or whatever and where the mods were ready for anonymous posting and see where it goes. More like a victim/witness rather than an interest group or volunteer thing.

It would be good to see something other than soapboxing..

Interesting you talk about soapboxing.

star-pants

Just watched that - and Thaed I see what you mean by it's hard to watch.
To see him stumble over and search for words to describe what's in his head, and to picture that in a child's head, is very tough.
It is also, a good insight as you say into the horrendous world of domestic violence.

Even having heard first hand accounts of domestic / emotional / sexual abuse and violence myself, it's still never something I could comprehend to go through. Children who grow up in this environment... it's heartbreaking. But it is always good to see examples like those that I know, or Patrick Stewart here, who have finally seen it for what it was, and know in themselves it's something that they should never do, nor should it ever be accepted.

CDfm

Giselle wrote: »

The actors who played the Mitchell brothers alleged they were on the receiving end, but since they didn't proscecute their abuse is not proven.

You can't assume guilt, thats why the courts are there and its unfair to the accused, as the victims of false rape accusations etc will tell you.

Gender shouldn't make a difference there either.

Of course, but wouldnt be great to leave gender to one side on this.

Wasn't Farrah Fawcett arrested for spousal abuse too. Guys dont come forward.

I wonder how can you approach such a thing - I wonder if Mystic Monkey has a view?? MM are you there . ( waiting seance like thumps on the monitor )

Oink

Thanks for the clip OP.

Snowie

My mum experienced domestic violence in her first marrage... I don't know all that much about it and went on tbh I find it pretty tough to hear think about it.. As it's not something thats talked of, simply because it is very hard for her, I know of other things that happened to my mum. I don't think I can relate to his story much. But as others have said that patrick well you can see emotion with in his body laungeg but I just wanted to say that, that takes some very strong confidence to stand up and talk about such a tramatic childhood the chap diserves a standing ovation ... Very powerfull speach......

Dr Galen

i genuinely found that hard to watch. For someone, who normally appears so assured and calm in his words, its so apparent that the long term trauma he has had to deal with, has a profound effect upon him.

Thaed, I'd like to pick up one point you made. You talk about how men talking about domestic abuse is important. About, how showing our distaste, objections, call it what you will, is going to be key to combatting it. I couldn't agree more with you on this. Its only by the good men among us, and lets be honest we're in the majority, standing up and saying that we find female domestic violence despicable, that we can have an effect. In the way that we discuss our issues with racism, men need to stand up and call it like it is on the issue. Videos such as this, also go a long way, to show men of all ages, the effect that their violence has upon people. Maybe if this was more common, we'd see less of it, as people might, and i stress the word might, think twice before raising thier hand.

I'm not a violent person. I avoid physical confrontations. Without going into intricate detail, some of Patrick Stewart said in his piece strikes a chord with me personally, and forms the basis for my dislike of violence and such. It was/is something I can deal with but not everyone can do this. I think its important that help and support is given to men who live in fear of their temper and in fear of losing control. Its fair enough to castigate and shun those who do perpertrate violence in the home, but we should be talking about prevention. About helping guys deal with anger and control issues, so that violence doesn't become the outlet or the way to solve the argument.

Dr Galen

CDfm wrote: »

Of course, but wouldnt be great to leave gender to one side on this.

Wasn't Farrah Fawcett arrested for spousal abuse too. Guys dont come forward.

I wonder how can you approach such a thing - I wonder if Mystic Monkey has a view?? MM are you there . ( waiting seance like thumps on the monitor )

you called??

your right, spousal abuse occurs across the gender divide. It would be unfair though, when presented with the stats, to claim that its a 50/50 divide. This thread was created to share the video and to discuss female specific abuse, (correct me if I'm wrong Thaed)

Boston

Thing to note is that the father is essentially a good man with a major failing. Patrick Stewart goes to length to outlines his fathers achievements at the start and you can tell, despite it all, he's still somewhat proud of that man. That makes it all the harder to comes to terms with domestic violence. It would be easier if they were outright bastards.

Dr Galen

funny I got that impression too. You could tell I thought from the way he spoke, his facial expressions etc that he had pride in his father acheivements. It contrasted totally with how he talked about holding his mothers hand if she had picked up a knife one night.

Thats where I think some support systems or better awareness programs, targetted at men, to allow them access help for anger, self esteem or other contributary factors could be of benefit, because as you say Boston, they're not all outright bastards

Nevyn

I started the thread to share the video and highlight the impact that domestic abuse has on boys/men even when they are not the direct target, Patrick Stewart speaks about being proud of his Dad and how he was wonderful Monday to Thursday but how he dreaded the weekend, which shows some of the complexity of domestic abuse and how his father was also a victim of how things were.

His Dad would have experienced this at home also and when his father was discharged from the army, there was no debriefing or counseling or awareness of what can happen. Because it was hushed up and never spoken about his father never got help to deal with his behaviour and that all impacted on him growing up.

The Corinthian

What is this thread doing on this board?

Listening to that rather painfully long speech, it really came down to domestic violence against women. Suggesting that it somehow demonstrated the "impact that domestic abuse has on boys/men" is a bit laughable as ultimately there is never any question in the lecture on who the perpetrator is, and it's the bloke with the Y-chromosome.

It is principally a women's rights piece with token mention of effect on men/boys, highlighting male on female violence and not the reverse.

This thread does not serve the interests of men or equality, IMHO.

Dr Galen

unfortunately 60 years later it still gets hushed up and not spoken about. The work that Amnesty and other organisations do is to be applauded imho, but we all know that even as we're typing here, its going on and never getting reported

Delirium

That was difficult watching but parts of it did remind me of something from my teen years.

I'd grown up raised by my dad only, and generally any attitude towards women that he expressed was from that of missing his wife.

So, for my childhood/ early teens domestic violence would have be a blind-spot or something I wouldn't have thought of.

That was until a friend of mine opened up to me one day out of the blue. He went onto describe in great detail a series of beatings that his dad had given his mother.

And a lot of the feelings that Patrick Stewart mentioned were there in my friend. Feeling powerless to defend his mother and an unwillingness to villify his dad.

On top of that, his mother wouldn't leave the father 'because of the kids.'
This added additional feelings of 'she's enduring the beatings because of me' onto my friend.

But it definitely is in keeping with what was seen in the video, my friend was a mess of conflicting emotions when he was telling the story, and during the long chat we had after that.

Nevyn

Mystik Monkey wrote: »

Thaed, I'd like to pick up one point you made. You talk about how men talking about domestic abuse is important. About, how showing our distaste, objections, call it what you will, is going to be key to combatting it. I couldn't agree more with you on this. Its only by the good men among us, and lets be honest we're in the majority, standing up and saying that we find female domestic violence despicable, that we can have an effect.

I think it is something we all need to do about domestic violence and partner abuse regardless of the genders invovled.

Mystik Monkey wrote: »

In the way that we discuss our issues with racism, men need to stand up and call it like it is on the issue. Videos such as this, also go a long way, to show men of all ages, the effect that their violence has upon people. Maybe if this was more common, we'd see less of it, as people might, and i stress the word might, think twice before raising thier hand.

I think that male positive peer discussion on such issues are needed and can make a difference.

Mystik Monkey wrote: »

I'm not a violent person. I avoid physical confrontations. Without going into intricate detail, some of Patrick Stewart said in his piece strikes a chord with me personally, and forms the basis for my dislike of violence and such. It was/is something I can deal with but not everyone can do this. I think its important that help and support is given to men who live in fear of their temper and in fear of losing control. Its fair enough to castigate and shun those who do perpertrate violence in the home, but we should be talking about prevention. About helping guys deal with anger and control issues, so that violence doesn't become the outlet or the way to solve the argument.

I have a rotten temper, I do. I used to get in a fair amount of fights growing up as a teen, more then the average girl would, but it was still more acceptable for me to display a range of emotions and discuss them and figure out where my frustrations were coming from then boy/men are allowed or what is considered 'normal' the whole a real man says nothing and keeps it inside and just gets on with it does a lot of people a huge disservice, including male victims of partner abuse or any abuse.

Delirium

The Corinthian wrote: »

What is this thread doing on this board?

Listening to that rather painfully long speech, it really came down to domestic violence against women. Suggesting that it somehow demonstrated the "impact that domestic abuse has on boys/men" is a bit laughable as ultimately there is never any question in the lecture on who the perpetrator is, and it's the bloke with the Y-chromosome.

It is principally a women's rights piece with token mention of effect on men/boys, highlighting male on female violence and not the reverse.

This thread does not serve the interests of men or equality, IMHO.

What about the discussion of how a man that grew with that sort of nightmare unfolding in front of him as a child??

I can remember plenty of interviews growing up of daughters who grew up with domestic abuse happening to their mother, but never from a sons point of view.

That surely is an appropriate discussion for this forum??

The Corinthian

koth wrote: »

What about the discussion of how a man that grew with that sort of nightmare unfolding in front of him as a child??

Tokenism. Ultimately the message of any such speech, though such omission, is that men are perpetrators and women are not. We may sometimes be victims too, but it's self inflicted.

That surely is an appropriate discussion for this forum??

No. Send it to the Ladies Lounge. I don't believe it has any place here.

Nevyn

I tought that a man talking about his experience with domestic abuse and how in impacted on him, would be a fitting topic for the gentleman's club.

Boston

The Corinthian wrote: »

What is this thread doing on this board?

Listening to that rather painfully long speech, it really came down to domestic violence against women. Suggesting that it somehow demonstrated the "impact that domestic abuse has on boys/men" is a bit laughable as ultimately there is never any question in the lecture on who the perpetrator is, and it's the bloke with the Y-chromosome.

It is principally a women's rights piece with token mention of effect on men/boys, highlighting male on female violence and not the reverse.

This thread does not serve the interests of men or equality, IMHO.

Sounds like you made up your mind before you watched the video and then looked out for aspects which supported your position. The speech was more to do with the effect his father's violence had on him then anything else. It also touched on the problems faced by service men and how they tend to fall into a violent lifestyle once discharged.

No one is going to be able to give a personal account of domestic violence which encompasses all aspects of it. Your assertion is that they should be quiet otherwise.

Dr Galen

The Corinthian wrote: »

No. Send it to the Ladies Lounge. I don't believe it has any place here.

Fortunately for this thread, I disagree.

The Corinthian

Thaedydal wrote: »

I tought that a man talking about his experience with domestic abuse and how in impacted on him, would be a fitting topic for the gentleman's club.

It would be if it involved female on male violence. But it didn't because that does not exist.

Boston wrote: »

Sounds like you made up your mind before you watched the video and then looked out for aspects which supported your position. The speech was more to do with the effect his father's violence had on him then anything else. It also touched on the problems faced by service men and how they tend to fall into a violent lifestyle once discharged.

No, I made up my mind about half way through, when it became evident that "men are the perpetrators" was the message, regardless of whether they can be victims too.

This is a serious problem in that there is frankly nothing being said about women being perpetrators of violence and so even well meaning speeches like this end up reinforcing this stereotype.

No one is going to be able to give a personal account of domestic violence which encompasses all aspects of it. Your assertion is that they should be quiet otherwise.

No, my assertion is that on this board men's issues should be specifically addressed. Not women's issues with some men's issues tokenism.

Mystik Monkey wrote: »

Fortunately for this thread, I disagree.

Can you articulate or just a ruling?

Dr Galen

i'm fairly sure that I have already articulated my views on the video and the subject in previous posts. I disagree with your sentiments that this is an issue that shouldn't be discussed here.

Calling it a ruling sounds too negative to me. Lets call it a mod guidance and as a second mod guidance, anyone who disagrees and would like to take it further should consult the forum charter regarding mod decisions etc etc

The Corinthian

Mystik Monkey wrote: »

i'm fairly sure that I have already articulated my views on the video and the subject in previous posts. I disagree with your sentiments that this is an issue that shouldn't be discussed here.

I didn't ask for your views on the subject, I asked for your views on my objections and you have not given those. "I disagree" is not a view, it's a ruling... sorry, I mean 'guidance'.

Boston

Stop behaving like a child.

r3nu4l

Boston wrote: »

Stop behaving like a child.

Stop throwing insults around

Dr Galen

The Corinthian wrote: »

I didn't ask for your views on the subject, I asked for your views on my objections and you have not given those. "I disagree" is not a view, it's a ruling... sorry, I mean 'guidance'.

by reading my posts, I would have thought it was clear where our thinking diverges, and thus, why I'm of the opinion this thread has a home here.

You have been here long enough to know that arguing a Moderators decision in thread isn't on. I specifically referred posters to the charter in my previous post as to how to go about registering their disapproval with a decision. I'm not sure what part of that you didn't get? (thats a rhetorical question btw, I don't need an answer)

CDfm

I agree MM - and there are issues that transcend policies and politics and this is one. Domestic Violence is always wrong no matter who does it and here its about guy violence.

Its about time we had a thread like this here.

star-pants

Just catching up on this thread, I actually find it very interesting to see it from a guys perspective. Yes the clip is mostly about the man being the bad person, doing the violent deeds etc, and obviously this is not always the case. But if getting a man to talk about what he witnessed as a child growing up helps someone out there, male or female in a bad situation, knowing they can speak out, and can get help, then it's worth it.

There's a thread in here about why don't guys talk about stuff to other guys - this is one of those things essentially, why would a guy admit to being abused (mentally, physically or otherwise) if he won't talk about relatively normal issues?
So for someone like Patrick Stewart, and any other man who stands up and says 'you know what, I'm a victim too' it's a big step IMO, it's a big step for anyone to stand up and say that. And I don't mean to be stereotypical or condescending towards men in general, and I don't mean it as a sweeping statement - but 'in general' most men would be less likely to come forward with that time of info than a woman might, even in a secure environment.

One of the people I spoke of before, who'd told me what she'd been through, was lucky enough to have a male friend, who became a bf for a while, who knew in a way what she was going through. His mother was an outrageous alcoholic, afaik his father wasn't on the scene. He from a young age had to go 'collect' her when she was causing bother, put up with whatever she dealt out. People knew this, but no one did anything. So all he had was his friend/gf to confide in, to understand.
Patrick Stewart opens an insight to what a young boy sees and perceives - and in turn, what he has done with that knowledge, what he himself has learnt. As others have said, Patrick is still proud of his father, for the good things he did. Relationship dynamics are different, in each family and with each parent / child / gender, and all of these need to be seen and understood, to best help all affected.

I personally think this clip/thread is best suited to this forum because it highlights the mans' side of things, good bad or indifferent. Women are always talked about, women suffering abuse, women being the victims - it's about time the men got some air time too - and I think the clip is a good example of that. If you really listen to Patrick Stewart, he speaks more about how it affected him, rather than his mother, not in a bad way - but in a way that perhaps others growing up in similar circumstances could relate to.

Sparky_Larks

two points
1) The violence that women suffer at the hands of men, and the effect that that has on young boys is an important issue and should be discussed in this Forum.
2) Amnesty International is a great orginasatin that does good work around the word. However they have chosen to take the view that Men are evil. Many studies show that the majority of domestic violence is perpetrated by women. Amnesty have chose to ignore it. They have aslo called the violence perpetrated by women towards Men as statistically irrevelent.

There is some intresting info here but it should be taken wth caution as I have no way of verifying the info
www.menweb.org
This is intresting

Every year, 1,510,455 women and 834,732 men are victims of physical violence by an intimate. This is according to a Nov. 1998 Department of Justice report on the National Violence Against Women Survey

I did find it intresting however that he refered to being moved when reading the case of three Murders, and later said that violence is a choice even when provoked.

In my opinion Society treats violence men suffer atthe hands of women lesser than Violence Women suffer at the hands of men. Look how often on TV we see women hitting men and it is treated as acceptable.

It is acceptable for women to abuse men on TV these days. Desperate Houswives and the rape of a minor is condoned, as Gabrielle repeatedly rapes Her Gardner.

Or the Number of people defending the t-Shirts saying , boys are stupid throw rocks at them.



Hopefully as part of the discussion about domestic violence, we can change society so men who are in abusive relationships
a) feel they can come out and say it
b) have somewher they can turn to for help

Nevyn

When it comes to lobbying numbers and the numbers effected make an impact, this is unfortunate but how it is.

I think that looking at partner abuse from a point of view that it is not acceptable no matter the genders of the couples or poly group invovled. In showing how it effects the family and society is need, we need more brave men to step forward.

iptba

http://www.amen.ie/Papers/15209.htm
Amnesty surrenders credibility

[..]

What some of us find objectionable about domestic violence propaganda is that it (1) seeks to impose on all men the guilt of the few; (2) insists there is little or no violence against men by women; (3) lobbies assiduously to prevent organisations representing male victims getting equal treatment; and (4) has fostered a widespread fraudulent abuse of domestic violence legislation by women, some of whom are themselves abusers, to deprive men of their children and homes.

iptba

Letter in Irish Times following John Waters' article:

AMNESTY AND DOMESTIC VIOLENCE

A chara, - As someone who has supported the aims of Amnesty International over 25 years, I was saddened by John Waters's column of July 4th. Although I often disagree with the Mr Waters, his analysis of the domestic violence issue rings true for me in my work among vulnerable fathers here in Donegal.

Many claim, in the safety of the support group, that they were victims of domestic abuse from their wives/partners. All claim that on making complaints to the gardaí, their allegations were dismissed or, worse, they were scoffed at for not "being able to sort her out".

Had they in fact "sorted her out", no doubt An Garda Síochána would know exactly what to do with these abusive males.

One would think that this was a rich furrow for Amnesty to plough. It involves abuse, State collusion and official denial. Perhaps Amnesty is interested in men who suffer violence only if the perpetrator of that violence is also male?

Amnesty's recent report, by ignoring research on the subject produced for the Irish Government, means that the feminist world view is untainted by truth. The appalling vista of men abused by their wives or partners can be tidily swept under the official carpet, with the help of an organisation I used to respect. - Is mise,

Letter in Irish Examiner:

09/07/05
Domestic violence: the truth is out


BRIAN ABBOT (Irish Examiner letters, July 7) says there is a need for a report on men abused by women, and that this should be done urgently.

In recent years there have been three ‘independent dual gender’ research reports on domestic violence, all of which have concluded that when it comes to sole perpetrators, women are marginally more responsible.

One of these researches was carried out by the State, which promptly buried it, never to be seen again.

Amnesty International has lost the plot on this issue, and has damaged its outstanding reputation by its amateur research and reporting.

Amnesty now owe male victims of domestic violence an apology, which I somehow doubt the feminists in the organisation will allow.

The Government is making a major contribution to the escalation of domestic violence because it has consistently ignored national and international independent research, all of which shows that women are every bit as culpable as men as sole perpetrators of domestic violence.

The problem cannot be tackled successfully until the Government accepts this truth.

CDfm

It should be easy for everyone here to say when men are abuse their families that it is totally wrong.

I totally believe that and its not a tongue twister.

Just because women dont get prosecuted doesnt validate men who commit these actions.

iptba

CDfm wrote: »

It should be easy for everyone here to say when men are abuse their families that it is totally wrong.

I totally believe that and its not a tongue twister.

Just because women dont get prosecuted doesnt validate men who commit these actions.

I agree.

But it's important for people who look at this thread to know that Amnesty International are running a one-sided campaign especially given the heading, "Patrick Stewart speaks about domestic voilence for Amnesty International."

Nevyn

Is there a clip about a man talking about partner abuse which you can add to the thread then iptba?

http://www.esri.ie/news_events/press_releases_archive/2005/domestic_abuse_of_women_a/index.xml

05/07/2005
Domestic Abuse of Women and Men in Ireland: Report on the National Study of Domestic Abuse

The National Crime Council in association with the Economic and Social Research Institute (ESRI)
Embargo: Tuesday 5 July 2005 at 3 p.m.

Today, the National Crime Council, in association with the Economic and Social Research Institute, published the first ever large scale study undertaken to give an overview of the nature, extent and impact of domestic abuse against women and men in intimate partner relationships in Ireland. The study was commissioned by the National Crime Council and based on a survey conducted by the Economic and Social Research Institute of a nationally representative statistical sample of over 3,000 adult women and men, as well as focus group interviews with Traveller and immigrant women. The report is written by Dr. Dorothy Watson, Senior Researcher with the ESRI, Principal Investigator and Senior Author and Miss. Sara Parsons, Research Officer with the National Crime Council.

The study draws a distinction between severe abuse, defined as a pattern of physical, emotional or sexual behaviour between partners in an intimate relationship that causes, or risks causing, significant negative consequences for the person affected and isolated minor incidents that do not form a pattern of behaviour and do not have a severe impact. The two types of behaviour differ in their impact and in the profiles of those affected. The study focuses on severe abuse which is likely to call for an intervention from the Criminal Justice System and/or place demands on support services for victims.

The key findings were outlined by Dr. Watson:

* The report shows that 15 per cent of women (or about one in seven) and six per cent of men (or one in 16) have experienced severely abusive behaviour of a physical, sexual or emotional nature from an intimate partner at some time in their lives.
* While the risk to women is higher, domestic abuse is something that also affects a significant number of men. The survey suggests that in the region of 213,000 women and 88,000 men in Ireland have been severely abused by a partner.
* Apart from the higher risk faced by women, the risk of having experienced abuse is also higher in couples where one partner (rather than both jointly) controls decisions about money, for those whose parents were abusive to each other, for young adults and for those with children.
* A number of findings in the report suggest an increased risk of abuse where the partners are isolated from close family and neighbourhood supports.
* In almost two out of five cases, the abusive behaviour had no specific trigger or was triggered by minor incidents. In about one third of cases, abuse is associated with the consumption of alcohol. However, in only one quarter of cases was alcohol consumption always involved.

I think the numbers of "six per cent of men (or one in 16) " and "88,000 men in Ireland have been severely abused by a partner." may come as a surprise to a lot of people and there should be help and support for those men.

But also those men who have become abusive should have help and supports as well and if there is a family history of abuse going back generational then early intervention may stop it happening.


http://www.uspi.ie/Domestic%20Abuse.html

Impact of Abuse on Children

Statistics of Domestic violence against children has lagged behind that of abuse against Parents. The reason for this is a tendency to classify parents and children together. Emerging evidence of Parental Domestic Violence affects every member of the family including children, therefore society must recognise that Domestic Child Abuse exists and can no longer be ignored.

Children that witness abuse and are also the subject of abuse receive a double blow. The affects of such abuse will vary depending on the frequency, intensity of the abuse, their age, type of abuse and what support mechanisms are in place. A child who witnesses abuse is more likely to abuse a partner in adult life.

I guess a program like the adult children of alcoholics may be needed.

CDfm

But thats a debate for a different thread.

I have no problem with guys who abuse being punished.

For example, I am appalled by sexual abuse and something like child rape should get the most severe sentence.

I dont think we should miss the opportunity to discuss it because while men and women both abuse men abuse. So it should be discussed.

It may be that the thread should be split.

iptba

Thaedydal wrote: »

Is there a clip about a man talking about partner abuse which you can add to the thread then iptba?

Afraid not. Maybe there is something out on the web e.g. that a group that supports male victims have put together.
Of course, such groups generally haven't got much statutory funding over the years.

iptba

CDfm wrote: »

But thats a debate for a different thread.

I have no problem with guys who abuse being punished.

For example, I am appalled by sexual abuse and something like child rape should get the most severe sentence.

I dont think we should miss the opportunity to discuss it because while women abuse men do too. So it should be discussed.

I wasn't the person saying the discussion should be closed down. Maybe it is a discussion for another thread and maybe if a parallel thread was set one up, it would be good. I've quite a bit on.

Dr Galen

iptba wrote: »

I wasn't the person saying the discussion should be closed down. Maybe it is a discussion for another thread and maybe if a parallel thread was set one up, it would be good. I've quite a bit on.

i think CDfm and yourself are right on this. Maybe a parallel thread is the way to go, its certainly an issue that needs discussion and to be talked about. Its also a separate issue in my mind from this thread. I'd be all for it. Maybe someone who knows a little more about the subject, or has a bit more research to hand could help out.....;)

CDfm

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055840117

here I have posted an ABC report

Its really though is a good opportunity to use this thread to have a few pops at male violence too.

Maybe there are links to anger management courses and a few horror stories and false allegations that could lighten it up.

I have a really close friend who told me earlier in the year how his Dad beat up his Mum when he was 14 and how he thought all houses had doors with holes in them till he was 8 or so. Then was embarrassed to bring friends home.

Cmon guys we know it happens.

iptba

Ok folks, have set up a new thread:
"Amnesty International & the lack of attention given to domestic violence against men"
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055840154

donfers

Thaedydal wrote: »

When it comes to lobbying numbers and the numbers effected make an impact, this is unfortunate but how it is.

I think that looking at partner abuse from a point of view that it is not acceptable no matter the genders of the couples or poly group invovled. In showing how it effects the family and society is need, we need more brave men to step forward.

I think we can draw parallels here with the number of rape crimes that aren't reported. Many women won't step forward because of the social stigma involved. Similarlily many men won't come forward because of the social stigma involved. Just imagine lads if any of your group of mates was in the pub and said "my girlfriend/wife is beating me up". He'd be in danger of being absolutely ridiculed. His very masculinity is being called into question. Likewise, a woman who has been raped will fear being labelled a slut, having asked for, dressing provocatively etc etc.

so I understand how tough it is for a man to come forward. I have seen guys battered on the streets by their girlfriends, hit with shoes and handbags and full-on punches to their face and nobody does a thing and the guy just stands there and takes it coz the vast vast majority of us thank god are programmed from an early age never to raise your hand to a woman.

To be honest if a woman attacked me I wouldn't be able to hit back and I wouldn't report it. The best I could do is restrain her, and grab her hands.

metrovelvet

I dunno. Maybe I have too much sympathy for the devil but I get tired of the usual cliches of "domestic violence is wrong" yadda yadda yadda. Hitting someone is unacceptable, yadda yadda yadda. People who commit evil acts are lost. They are lost.

But instead of getting caught up in the gender, can you imagine the terror of the child witness? Maybe some of you dont have to imagine. Maybe some of you can remember. That to me is what this piece was about.

CDfm

Lets get this back on track.

Discussing male domestic violence is a bit racy for here.

Now - I have never hit any woman. But you get mutual violence and lots of angles.

My friend told me that his parents fight made him grow up and he didnt have the skills to deal with it. His Dads business was in trouble and the mother was spending money they didnt have and wouldnt/couldnt cut back. Thats pressure you dont need.

Now his dad sorted himself out and so did the mother. It wasnt without scars for him and he is a big man. He is a guy and totally comfortable with life is fairly sucessful and has no hang ups about it.

So we should not have hang ups about it.

Boston

metrovelvet wrote: »

But instead of getting caught up in the gender, can you imagine the terror of the child witness? Maybe some of you dont have to imagine. Maybe some of you can remember. That to me is what this piece was about.

It's kinda petty alright that there doesn't seem to be any room for the effect domestic violence has on children without dragging in gender.

iptba

Boston wrote: »

It's kinda petty alright that there doesn't seem to be any room for the effect domestic violence has on children without dragging in gender.

- The thread title is called, "Patrick Stewart speaks about domestic voilence for Amnesty International"

-The video clip is called, "Patrick Stewart on violence against women"

-The OP also mentions in the first post it has taken a while for men to tell other men domestic violence is not acceptable.

- It's in the Gentleman's Club

So it's probably not that surprising that the discussion might not simply have been about the effect that domestic violence has on children. If, in particular, the title said somebody about discussing the effect of domestic violence on children, things might have been different.